Zone1 Explaining Jesus to a Jew

[hobelim]

This makes this translation of the Rambam a victim of its own translation! It uses "color" because it references another translation that uses "color" in another verse, therefore, the Rambam must have meant "color."

You already know that one word can mean several different things based on the context.

The way I read it it seems that the Rambam was just being logical by saying the description based on the word used could also mean that the Ophanim, the second closest of angels to God, are covered in many colors., like light refracted through the facets of a diamond, as further described in this verse which I believe clears it up. Ezekiel 10:15-21

"And then I saw four wheels beside the cherubim, one beside each cherub. The wheels radiating were sparkling like diamonds in the sun. All four wheels looked alike, each like a wheel within a wheel."

This confirms that the Ophanim were covered with many colors. Not eyes.

The burning bush comes to mind.

 

[hobelim]

my religion is not "BASED" on the visions of Ezekiel. Jesus is supposed to have been FASTING
the entire 40 days out alone in the wilderness which IN ITSELF is enough to induce a
toxic delirium. I do not recall if Moses ate anything while on the Mountain or slept

Like I said, that Jelly bean academy messed up your mind as effectively as it messed up the minds of those catlic meanies that you were surrounded by.

It just says that Jesus was "tempted by the devil" while living in the wilderness, (areas outside the jurisdiction of Jewish law), among the wild beasts, (the Romans), presumably doing what Romans do.

So he probably got drunk, high, had sex, and ate well living among the wild beasts. The nerve!

The "devil" was most likely just some dude in robes saying,

"Jesus, why are you throwing your life away? You're a good looking guy, you make beautiful furniture, everyone loves you, you could have the entire world by the balls and live on easy street if you would just listen to me and give up all that crazy talk about good and evil."

Jesus was not a lonely ascetic having hallucinations in the desert, delirious from starvation.

 

[rosends]

The way I read it it seems that the Rambam was just being logical by saying the description based on the word used could also mean that the Ophanim, the second closest of angels to God, are covered in many colors., like light refracted through the facets of a diamond, as further described in this verse which I believe clears it up. Ezekiel 10:15-21

"And then I saw four wheels beside the cherubim, one beside each cherub. The wheels radiating were sparkling like diamonds in the sun. All four wheels looked alike, each like a wheel within a wheel."

The Ophanim were covered with many, ʿayn, colors. Not eyes.

The burning bush comes to mind.

But the Rambam's Hebrew doesn't specifically say colors -- it says a word which means "appearance." Certain translations interpret the word to mean colors in other contexts, so that translator decided that it could mean color in the Rambam.

There are other translations of verse 9 which make the same case. Here is one:

I could see that there were four wheels beside the cherubs, one wheel beside each of the cherubs; as for the appearance of the wheels, they gleamed like the beryl stone.

------
Here is Klein's explanation:

"כְּעֵין adv. like, similar to. [Lit. ‘having the appearance of’. Formed from עֵין, c. st. of עַיִן (= eye), with pref. כְּ◌ (= as like). The word כְּעֵין occurs in the Bible 9 times, everywhere in the above sense. cp. מֵעֵין. cp. also כְּגוֹן, which shows a similar sense development as כְּעֵין.]"

You can also look at Jastrow.

It just seems to me that the leap from "appearance of an Tarshish" to "color" is a logical interpretation, but not a function of the meaning of the word.

By the way, in the verses of the burning bush, the bush is described as a "sight" using the word (Ex 3:3) וְאֶרְאֶ֔ה אֶת־הַמַּרְאֶ֥ה ha-mar'eh, from the same r-a-h root that the Rambam used. Does it mean "color" here?

 

[hobelim]

All of Ezekiel gives strong vibes that he knew where the 'shroom patch was.

So what if he used something that causes an altered state of consciousness where he 'saw' another reality and heard from superior intelligences that are living in that dimension?

Does a person have to starve themselves half to death to have a "real" hallucination?

 

[irosie91]

So what if he used something that causes an altered state of consciousness where he 'saw' another reality and heard from superior intelligences that are living in that dimension?

Does a person have to starve themselves half to death to have a "real" hallucination?

it would help-----along with the shrooms and the heat of the desert

 

[hobelim]

By the way, in the verses of the burning bush, the bush is described as a "sight" using the word (Ex 3:3) וְאֶרְאֶ֔ה אֶת־הַמַּרְאֶ֥ה ha-mar'eh, from the same r-a-h root that the Rambam used. Does it mean "color" here?

A strange light that sparkled like fire? Probably yes.

 

[hobelim]

it would help-----along with the shrooms and the heat of the desert

Except it clearly states that Jesus was living "among the wild beasts", a well known metaphor for the Kittim, presumably doing what wild beasts do in the wilderness, the lawless areas.

"The wilderness" represented areas beyond the jurisdiction of Jewish law in occupied Judea.

Am I telling you something that you don't already know?

 

[rosends]

A strange light that sparkled like fire? Probably yes.

then the verse would make no sense -- "and see this great sight"
and see this great color?

 

[irosie91]

Except it clearly states that Jesus was living "among the wild beasts", a well known metaphor for the Kittim, presumably doing what wild beasts do in the wilderness, the lawless areas.

What happens in the wilderness stays in the wilderness. Is this something you don't already know?

I always liked to go into wildernesses available to me----like lonely wooded areas
in the semi rural lands of my childhood-----NUTHIN' HAPPENED

 

[hobelim]

I always liked to go into wildernesses available to me----like lonely wooded areas
in the semi rural lands of my childhood-----NUTHIN' HAPPENED

Sure, but I heard that in the wilderness where you lived there were wild beasts, in uniform, unclean creatures, that caused wounds so deep you are still hemorrhaging from it to this day.

But thats just what I heard. from you.

 

[irosie91]

then the verse would make no sense -- "and see this great sight"
and see this great color?

UHM what does the word הַמַּרְאֶ֥ה have to do with color or fire?

 

[irosie91]

Sure, but I heard that in the wilderness where you lived there were wild beasts, in uniform, unclean creatures, that caused wounds so deep you are still hemorrhaging from it to this day.

But thats just what I heard. from you.

not from me-----I went into the wilderness to ESCAPE

 

[hobelim]

then the verse would make no sense -- "and see this great sight"
and see this great color?

What? A strange translucent and transparent light that sparkled like fire around a bush that did not burn would be a great sight to see.

When Moses "got closer' to the light, he heard from God.

Maybe it was a type of wormhole opening up in the visual cortex in his mind that seemed to be superimposed over a bush.

A translucent and transparent orb with an encircling radiance sparkling like diamonds in the sun, in the middle of his mind, speaking words that made no sound which implies telepathy.

 

[irosie91]

What? A strange translucent and transparent light that sparkled like fire around a bush that did not burn would be a great sight to see.

When Moses "got closer' to the light, he heard from God.

In my town we have christmas decorations that look like that

 

[hobelim]

In my town we have christmas decorations that look like that

Maybe Moses celebrated Christmas? I never considered that possibility. Brilliant!

 

[rosends]

What? A strange translucent and transparent light that sparkled like fire around a bush that did not burn would be a great sight to see.

When Moses "got closer' to the light, he heard from God.

Maybe it was a type of wormhole opening up in the visual cortex in his mind that seemed to be superimposed over a bush.

A translucent and transparent orb with an encircling radiance sparkling like diamonds in the sun, in the middle of his mind, speaking words that made no sound which implies telepathy.

But the verse uses none of the words indicating color. It uses a word meaning "sight". So if you interpret it to refer to color, ok, but any translator would be hard pressed to see the word mar'eh as MEANING color.

 

[hobelim]

But the verse uses none of the words indicating color. It uses a word meaning "sight". So if you interpret it to refer to color, ok, but any translator would be hard pressed to see the word mar'eh as MEANING color.

First things first. One step at a time, little by little, and so back to the original proposition.

And then I saw four wheels beside the cherubim, one beside each cherub. The wheels radiating were sparkling like diamonds in the sun. All four wheels looked alike, each like a wheel within a wheel."

Is there any other way to see "sparkling like diamonds in the sun, without seeing colors?

 

[norwegen]

Who says Jesus stayed awake for 40 days? Out in the wilderness and on that mountain - apostate Judea - he had only fasted.

 

[irosie91]

First things first. One step at a time, little by little, and so back to the original proposition.

And then I saw four wheels beside the cherubim, one beside each cherub. The wheels radiating were sparkling like diamonds in the sun. All four wheels looked alike, each like a wheel within a wheel."

Is there any other way to see "sparkling like diamonds in the sun, without seeing colors?

IDK----can you send me a few diamonds so I can CHECK?

 

[irosie91]

Who says Jesus stayed awake for 40 days? Out in the wilderness and on that mountain - apostate Judea - he had only fasted.

"apostate Judea"??? another jelly bean meme