Faith-healing parents charged in baby's death

[Diuretic]

I'm not over-reaching at all. You're trying to question my "fevered analogies" is nothing more than a deflection.

The analogy is relevant, and valid.

A deflection is your banging on about me apparently trying to pussify my kid.

 

[doeton]

Garlic is as good as seven mothers.

 

[Shogun]

It is sort of ironic. However, given the fact that the site actually states it's bias in it's NAME, I think we can give it a pass. That's what distinguishes it from CNN and CBS.

It's honest.

and THIS is the kind of retarded mental function that causes you to say stupid shit. I don't really care what you think deserves a pass. It's no more honest in it's bias than the popes bedroom is a porno movie set. But I do so enjoy watching you try to walk like newborn bambi among your superiors so...

 

[Shogun]

What complete nonsense.

Prayer has been "proven" to work.

It all depends on what you're willing to accept as proof. If you discount the testimony of the faithful, then I guess there will never be any adequate "proof" of the benefits of prayer.

As I said. If this couple was a couple of teachers, who thought they were doing a good thing by denying their child immunizations because they were afraid she'd become autistic, the press would be much more sympathetic.

It's all part and parcel of liberal bias. Educated liberal folks = GOOD. Poor Christian folks = BAD.

I rest my fucking case.

Hmmm... refraining from immunity shots because of a widespread belief of a MEDICAL link to autism and refraining from medical attention because of the nutter belief that talking to yourself causes miraculous recoveries..




good grief this is too easy.

 

[AllieBaba]

Likewise, I don't give a shit what you consider acceptable. I met the burden of proof. As I said, you look like a moron with your fingers in your ears.

 

[AllieBaba]

I rest my fucking case.

Hmmm... refraining from immunity shots because of a widespread belief of a MEDICAL link to autism and refraining from medical attention because of the nutter belief that talking to yourself causes miraculous recoveries..




good grief this is too easy.

They believe there's a MEDICAL link between praying and healing, just as Jenny McCarthy (talk about nutter) believes in a MEDICAL link between immunizations and autism. It's just as valid. Both based upon beliefs. The only difference is one belief comes from conservative Christians, and one comes from the left wing. Christian = BAD, left wing = GOOD.

You're right. This is too easy.

 

[Ravi]

They believe there's a MEDICAL link between praying and healing, just as Jenny McCarthy (talk about nutter) believes in a MEDICAL link between immunizations and autism. It's just as valid. Both based upon beliefs. The only difference is one belief comes from conservative Christians, and one comes from the left wing. Christian = BAD, left wing = GOOD.

You're right. This is too easy.

The three-year Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP), published in the April 4 American Heart Journal, was the largest-ever attempt to apply scientific methods to measure the influence of prayer on the well-being of another. It examined 1,800 patients undergoing heart-bypass surgery. On the eve of the operations, church groups began two weeks of praying for one set of patients. Each recipient had a praying contingent of about 70, none of whom knew the patient personally. The study found no differences in survival or complication rates compared with those who did not receive prayers. The only statistically significant blip appeared in a subgroup of patients who were prayed for and knew it. They experienced a higher rate of postsurgical heart arrhythmias (59 versus 52 percent of unaware subjects).

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=no-prayer-prescription&colID=5

 

[Angel Heart]

Only study shows MMR is tyied to autism was retracted BTW:


http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4743.html

He's some more info on how the tie to MMR happened:

http://www.quackwatch.com/03HealthPromotion/immu/autism.html


It's a big scam.

Here's a good reason to get your kids their shots:

http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_040808_health_measles_portland_plane.44c34895.html

Passenger with measles exposes others in Portland, Seattle

01:52 PM PDT on Tuesday, April 8, 2008

By TERESA BLACKMAN, kgw.com Staff

A woman sick with measles flew into Portland in late March, exposing other passengers to the contagious and potentially deadly disease.


The woman, whose name was not released, flew from Amsterdam to Seattle on Northwest Flight 33 on March 26. Then, she boarded a smaller plane and flew from Seattle to Portland on Horizon Airlines’ Flight 2243.


Authorities said the woman, in her 20s, developed a rash on March 28. The next day, she boarded a plane in Portland and flew back to Amsterdam on Northwest Airlines Flight 92.


Once she reached the Netherlands, she had blood tests that confirmed the diagnosis of measles on April 4.

Most persons born before 1957 had the disease in childhood, and younger persons are routinely vaccinated against measles, both of which provide protection against the disease. Yet, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention was warning any passengers on the same flights to contact their local health department if they have concerns or have experienced symptoms of the disease.


Measles is a highly infectious and usually severe illness that causes fever, rash, cough, and red, watery eyes. The rash begins on the face and spreads to the rest of the body. Fever (often greater than 101° F), cough and other symptoms begin two to four days before the rash appears.


Measles symptoms begin seven to 21 days after the exposure to measles occurred. Measles is contagious from approximately four days before the rash appears through four days after the rash appears. People can spread measles before they have the characteristic measles rash.


Measles spreads easily among susceptible persons and can result in serious infections complicated by pneumonia, encephalitis, seizures, and death.

 

[AllieBaba]

Yawn.

There are studies which prove the power of prayer as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficacy_of_prayer
http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/159/19/2273

 

[AllieBaba]

Yeah. Jenny's brilliant comment when discussing the risks of autism vs. measles said, "Hey, I'll take my chance with some red spots" or something equally dismissive.

 

[Angel Heart]

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=no-prayer-prescription&colID=5

There's actually been signs that prayer can cause more issues. When the person hears they are being prayed for, they start to think "I must be really sick if people are praying for me".

 

[AllieBaba]

And there is evidence that not being immunized can result in death.

Two sides of the same coin. But the Christian will get the bad press.

 

[Shogun]

Likewise, I don't give a shit what you consider acceptable. I met the burden of proof. As I said, you look like a moron with your fingers in your ears.

no, you really didn't.


Indeed, it's clear that you don't give ashit about anything that conflicts with your nutjob dogma.

Prayer hasn't been proven to do shit. post your evidence. name dropping some obscure christian nutter just isn't all that convincing to the rest of the academic world.

 

[Shogun]

Yawn.

There are studies which prove the power of prayer as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficacy_of_prayer
http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/159/19/2273

Get a billion Christians to pray for a single amputee. Get them to pray that God regrow that missing limb. This happens to salamanders every day, presumably without prayer; this is within the capacity of God. I find it interesting that people of faith only tend to pray for conditions that are self-limiting.[2

from your first link


And I agree.. go pray for a fucking amputee and see what happens when you can't rely on the body's natural healing process to test prayer. You fucking dingbat nutters and your watered down whiskey cures, lemme tellya.

 

[Shogun]

Following his systematic review of healing as a therapy for human disease, in 2000, Neil C. Abbot of the Department of Medicine, University of Dundee, wrote:[5]

"No firm conclusions about the efficacy or inefficacy of healing can be drawn."


From YOUR source, baba.

 

[AllieBaba]

Get a billion Christians to pray for a single amputee. Get them to pray that God regrow that missing limb. This happens to salamanders every day, presumably without prayer; this is within the capacity of God. I find it interesting that people of faith only tend to pray for conditions that are self-limiting.[2

from your first link


And I agree.. go pray for a fucking amputee and see what happens when you can't rely on the body's natural healing process to test prayer. You fucking dingbat nutters and your watered down whiskey cures, lemme tellya.

Get a billion people to withhold immunizations from their kids and see how many die.

 

[Shogun]

Get a billion people to withhold immunizations from their kids and see how many die.

You DO realize that millions of kids have lived on Earth before immunizations, right? that immunizations correlates with an INCREASE of healthy kids, right?

now, when have millions of thumpers ever miraculously healed an amputee victim with prayer?

EVER?


oh yea.. thats right.. never.

 

[Ravi]

Following his systematic review of healing as a therapy for human disease, in 2000, Neil C. Abbot of the Department of Medicine, University of Dundee, wrote:[5]

"No firm conclusions about the efficacy or inefficacy of healing can be drawn."


From YOUR source, baba.

But...but...but

 

[doeton]

well Allah did bring out the dust storm that downed the u.s. military's attempt to rescue the Iranian hostages.

"For many Iranians, however, the hostage crisis was a glorious triumph. Embossed with florid Shia mysticism, the episode has taken on the force of national myth—an epic story of a small group of devout young gerogan-girha (hostage-takers) who, armed with only prayer and purity of heart, stormed the gates of the most evil, potent empire on the planet, booted out the American devils, and secured the success of the mullahs' revolution. It is a poignant and poetic tale of how these innocent servants of the Imam treated their often crude and abusive captives with kindness and respect even as they pieced together shredded embassy documents to expose and thwart America's plots to destroy the revolution and reinstate the Shah. And when the Great Satan dispatched its deadly commandos to slay these young heroes (this is the part that fires the blood of the faithful), Allah stirred dust storms to down the infidel helicopters and turn back the invaders. This is the story taught to schoolchildren who are bused in to see the Great Aban 13th Exhibition and to touch the remains of the helicopters that Allah scorched while the innocent gerogan-girha slept."

 

[Paulie]

I'm sure prayer does work. But that could be for many reasons, including some placebo effect.

I also believe generally positive energy affects us whether its from us or others. And prayer certainly fits the defintion of positive energy.

But can it be proven as an adequate method to treat ailments?

Prayer can not be proven to work until the higher power you are praying to can be proven to exist.

Let me know how you guys make out with that.