Falmouth Mass may dismantle wind turbines due to illnesses

[Old Rocks]

LOL. I have stood under the mills south of Wasco, Oregon. Of course, my hearing suffers from 50 years in heavy industry, but my wife has excellent hearing, and she stated that it was a gentle swoosh, swoosh which didn't bother her at all. And that is all that I heard. There were the normal amount of ground squirrel holes, with the normal amount of red tail hawks overhead. Saw no evidence of dead birds or bats underneath the two we walked over to, although I have no dought that there is a certain amount of raptor mortality associated with the mills. Certainly a lower amount than the road that runs along side the mills.

 

[flacaltenn]

LOL. I have stood under the mills south of Wasco, Oregon. Of course, my hearing suffers from 50 years in heavy industry, but my wife has excellent hearing, and she stated that it was a gentle swoosh, swoosh which didn't bother her at all. And that is all that I heard. There were the normal amount of ground squirrel holes, with the normal amount of red tail hawks overhead. Saw no evidence of dead birds or bats underneath the two we walked over to, although I have no dought that there is a certain amount of raptor mortality associated with the mills. Certainly a lower amount than the road that runs along side the mills.

Very scientific jeeves.. I'm impressed. But I'll stick with the MEASURED levels of turbine noise taken over all angles and aspects of the wind field.. I guarantee --- it has an effect on both NEIGHBORS and wildlife..

Of course --- if you and your wife wanna stand out there for a couple months and report back --- I'd be thrilled to hear your numbers.. '

REAL NUMBERS are anywhere from 46dBA to 68dbA at 60meters with a moderate wind.
(Depending on size and height of blades.)

 

[flacaltenn]

Try this on for size.. Siemens 2 MW wind turbine. Sound levels from it's spec sheet..

http://www.k2wind.ca/wp-content/uploads/WTS-Wind-Turbine-Specifications-Report-and-App-A.pdf

Sound power nameplate (2.030 MW)
3 m/s – 91.4 dBA; 4 m/s – 95.6 dBA; 5 m/s – 99.8 dBA; 6 m/s – 102.5 dBA; >7 m/s – 103.0 dBA

For comparison:::

DID YA HEAR THAT GOLDIROCKS??? LOUDER???

Bet this'll have to be repeated often to overcome all those anecdotal stories of gentle whooshes.
MOST of the problem with personal stories always comes to size and hard something is blowing..

 

[westwall]

This will be a major source of income for many ranchers in the southern part of Eastern Oregon. And there are the basalt ridges in Southeastern Oregon that have huge potential for wind and solar energy. There rent the utilities pay could go to the support of our National Parks and Monuments. And in the broad basins, there is huge geo-thermal potential. Be nice to see that area experiance some economic good times.

Feds Give OK to Central Oregon Wind Farm | News - Home

BEND, Ore. -
The federal government on Thursday formally approved road and power line rights-of-way through about four miles of government land for a wind farm east of Bend that could add up to 52 turbines to the state's wind-energy boom.

The West Butte Wind Project would be on private land about 32 miles east of Bend, the U.S. Bureau of Land Management said.

The developer will pay for about 9,000 acres of sage grouse habitat elsewhere on bureau holdings, and it has worked on protection plans for golden eagles and bats, the bureau said.

Liz Nysson of the Oregon Natural Desert Association said the developer started early to reduce the potential harm to wildlife, a challenge for the wind business as projects move out of farmland along the Columbia River into sagebrush country.

Congrats.. Hope you're there to see the sad looks on the little critters faces when they get the eviction notice.. More useless wind toys.. Yippeee...

At least --- they are not decieving the public into putting them into their backyards.. That's a positive step..

How silly you are. The little critters will do just fine. The footprint of the mills are very small, and they don't spew poison that kills the soil and animals.

Tell that to the birds and bats that will be slaughtered in your little Cuisinart.

 

[westwall]

LOL. I have stood under the mills south of Wasco, Oregon. Of course, my hearing suffers from 50 years in heavy industry, but my wife has excellent hearing, and she stated that it was a gentle swoosh, swoosh which didn't bother her at all. And that is all that I heard. There were the normal amount of ground squirrel holes, with the normal amount of red tail hawks overhead. Saw no evidence of dead birds or bats underneath the two we walked over to, although I have no dought that there is a certain amount of raptor mortality associated with the mills. Certainly a lower amount than the road that runs along side the mills.

So, she lies like you do?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj5q6q8lH4Q]Sound of windmill / windturbine - film 01 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld_CWGYkdng]Do wind turbines make much sound? - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mablINxg3zE]Wind turbine noise - Suncor wind farm Ripley - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoVKP0G_f8M]Wind Turbine noise at 1600 feet - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Old Rocks]

http://files.gereports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/larg-wind-turbine.jpg

 

[westwall]

One of those videos I posted is taken from 1,600 feet away from the turbine. It appears your graph is wrong.

 

[flacaltenn]

One of those videos I posted is taken from 1,600 feet away from the turbine. It appears your graph is wrong.

Likely because of acoustic wave guiding. In an outdoor enviroment, thermal gradients, ground topology and clouds can cause exceptionally high channeling of sounds..

Depending on conditions here -- I can clearly hear concerts in the local park 3 miles away some nights.

The other factor is whether just ONE turbine or a group.. Because the varying speeds and sizes will create "beats" in the far field patterns. These beats also add and subtract from the individual acoustic power fields.

It's a difficult to monitor.. Just like the office at every airport that's required to monitor "airplane noise"..

The point of this thread is --- you can't plop these cuisinarts down whereever you feel like it. And EVEN IF they are in the middle of nowhere --- the impact on local wildlife is MORE than then just death by getting chopped. And you don't LIE to the folks who are inclined to have these earth-saving devices in their backyards..

 

[RGR]

You have experimental bias.. And you're not taking the experimental preparation seriously..

Of COURSE I am not taking this seriously. But unlike in my field where I can round up 7 figures to buy data, contractors, outside experts, and then take a year to express my professional opinion, this is not my field so I am going with just the basics of the question involved.

Can I go out, in and around 100+ large wind turbines and HEAR anything. Just...ANYTHING. While you laying the groundwork for why someone might walk among these things and hear NOTHING is appreciated, your obvious dislike for these things revealed previously looks like it has much more bias in it than anything I've expressed to date.

AND to boot === you are rejecting all the science I presented to you about the high variability of outdoor acoustic patterns which STATES EXACTLY that the noise WILL change intensity and location with enviro conditions.. Not to mention the fact that the turbines won't be working 2 or 2.5 days a week and 6 hours out of 24...

See, you are doing it again. High variability!! Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

I COUNTED 142 windmills turning, and 1 not, Sunday lunchtime in central Kansas. So according to what you want to present as the odds of finding ANY of them moving, I should go to Vegas and begin immediately playing roulette.

Not embarrassed enough yet?

Why should I be? I haven't even gone out and spent some time among all those spinning blades yet. When you have to use "high variability" to fill in for "gee why can't the average Joe cruise around 100+ of these things and not hear the stupid things", it isn't me looking to forestall an answer you appear to suspect might be in the offing.

 

[RGR]

15 years as a publishing scientist, I know a thing or two about testing a hypothesis!

Writing a couple of letters to Penthouse Forum that start off with "There I was in the lab, polishing my beaker..." DOESN'T make you a published scientist, kid.

Certainly I never said I ran a lab. But I've got 5 articles in Natural Resources Research...do they count?

 

[flacaltenn]

You have experimental bias.. And you're not taking the experimental preparation seriously..

Of COURSE I am not taking this seriously. But unlike in my field where I can round up 7 figures to buy data, contractors, outside experts, and then take a year to express my professional opinion, this is not my field so I am going with just the basics of the question involved.

Can I go out, in and around 100+ large wind turbines and HEAR anything. Just...ANYTHING. While you laying the groundwork for why someone might walk among these things and hear NOTHING is appreciated, your obvious dislike for these things revealed previously looks like it has much more bias in it than anything I've expressed to date.

AND to boot === you are rejecting all the science I presented to you about the high variability of outdoor acoustic patterns which STATES EXACTLY that the noise WILL change intensity and location with enviro conditions.. Not to mention the fact that the turbines won't be working 2 or 2.5 days a week and 6 hours out of 24...

See, you are doing it again. High variability!! Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

I COUNTED 142 windmills turning, and 1 not, Sunday lunchtime in central Kansas. So according to what you want to present as the odds of finding ANY of them moving, I should go to Vegas and begin immediately playing roulette.

Not embarrassed enough yet?

Why should I be? I haven't even gone out and spent some time among all those spinning blades yet. When you have to use "high variability" to fill in for "gee why can't the average Joe cruise around 100+ of these things and not hear the stupid things", it isn't me looking to forestall an answer you appear to suspect might be in the offing.

Well.. Welcome back.. Guess you missed the part where I listed the Noise Level from a Siemens manufacturer spec sheet.. It's 95 dbA.. And a chart that compares that to other sources at 95dbA..

Don't think you can ignore that. Or the fact that in field of MULTIPLES of these 2MW giants, you might even get LOUDER READINGS? CAN YOU STILL HEAR ME??? I SAID MORE THAN ONE !!!

So look man.. Did you have a nice picnic in that Kansas field?? Did you score??
But more importantly --- Did you read the SPEC SHEET to find out what the power outputs were for your sample??

95dBA is just too loud to plop down anywhere that you please.. Not even ONE of them..
Can you imagine an "ARMY" of leaf blowers 1/4 mile from your home???

 

[daveman]

15 years as a publishing scientist, I know a thing or two about testing a hypothesis!

Writing a couple of letters to Penthouse Forum that start off with "There I was in the lab, polishing my beaker..." DOESN'T make you a published scientist, kid.

Certainly I never said I ran a lab. But I've got 5 articles in Natural Resources Research...do they count?

"...when the hottest lab assistant came in and asked me if I needed any help. She wasn't wearing anything under her lab coat."

 

[RGR]

Well.. Welcome back.. Guess you missed the part where I listed the Noise Level from a Siemens manufacturer spec sheet.. It's 95 dbA.. And a chart that compares that to other sources at 95dbA..

I did see it. But when such levels cannot be found while standing around at the base of those things, or wandering around their bases, it peaks my interest even more. You see, the devil is always in the details. And when reality disputes the claims? THOSE are really cool things to delve into!!

So look man.. Did you have a nice picnic in that Kansas field?? Did you score??
But more importantly --- Did you read the SPEC SHEET to find out what the power outputs were for your sample??

Spec sheets are nice. I'll stick with reality. if I had a $1 for every time someone claimed the next new this, or how if I just read the spec sheet I certainly didn't need to visit the factory to check it out for myself, or my FAVORITE, when the head of a certain oil company told me that that Wall Street new formation was much more prolific than he was willing to claim in public, and then provided the information himself to refute that statement.

I'll be sure to report back when I have taken the appropriate amount of time to find all those 95dB noises from those hundreds of windmills...and then I shall offer a more refined opinion than my last walk about, which didn't match your spec sheet either. But due diligence...that I will certainly do.

 

[Amelia]

I don't understand how anyone could doubt that this kind of vibration and noise relentlessly thrumming 24/7 could harm members of the animal kingdom.

 

[flacaltenn]

Well.. Welcome back.. Guess you missed the part where I listed the Noise Level from a Siemens manufacturer spec sheet.. It's 95 dbA.. And a chart that compares that to other sources at 95dbA..

I did see it. But when such levels cannot be found while standing around at the base of those things, or wandering around their bases, it peaks my interest even more. You see, the devil is always in the details. And when reality disputes the claims? THOSE are really cool things to delve into!!

So look man.. Did you have a nice picnic in that Kansas field?? Did you score??
But more importantly --- Did you read the SPEC SHEET to find out what the power outputs were for your sample??

Spec sheets are nice. I'll stick with reality. if I had a $1 for every time someone claimed the next new this, or how if I just read the spec sheet I certainly didn't need to visit the factory to check it out for myself, or my FAVORITE, when the head of a certain oil company told me that that Wall Street new formation was much more prolific than he was willing to claim in public, and then provided the information himself to refute that statement.

I'll be sure to report back when I have taken the appropriate amount of time to find all those 95dB noises from those hundreds of windmills...and then I shall offer a more refined opinion than my last walk about, which didn't match your spec sheet either. But due diligence...that I will certainly do.

Yeah sure.. It's plausible that BOTH GE and SIEMENS are PURPOSELY making these products LOUDER on their spec sheets than they are in real life..
((GoldiRocks posted a link to similiar data in a GE chart))

What the hell man? What on earth do you analyze??
Takes you a YEAR to read the reports and make decisions??

What would possess them to advertise NOISIER WIND TURBINES???
What is your logical process to suspect they are doing that?

 

[RGR]

I don't understand how anyone could doubt that this kind of vibration and noise relentlessly thrumming 24/7 could harm members of the animal kingdom.

What vibration and thrumming? Part of the issue is, obviously this things MUST make noise...like the wind. Like A/C current and cars and people breathing. Or high voltage lines. The question is, does it make enough to cause what some are claiming, or not?

What is your experience standing around near them?

 

[RGR]

Yeah sure.. It's plausible that BOTH GE and SIEMENS are PURPOSELY making these products LOUDER on their spec sheets than they are in real life..

According to you, the perceived noise is dependent upon many things, including things not necessarily happening when the spec sheet was written.

So sure...there is a reason why empirical data is collected in the real world, under real world conditions.

Can't believe that you, who has pointed this out, don't appear to understand why it is necessary to do field measurements?

Particularly when my real world experience (admittedly limited) does not appear to validate the claims of horrendous and thrumming, or high dB noises in close proximity to these things.

I am willing to admit they certainly might exist, my small sample size of experience isn't near enough, but you have already pointed out how I might better my empirical sampling and I have ever intention to try.

 

[Amelia]

I don't understand how anyone could doubt that this kind of vibration and noise relentlessly thrumming 24/7 could harm members of the animal kingdom.

What vibration and thrumming? Part of the issue is, obviously this things MUST make noise...like the wind. Like A/C current and cars and people breathing. Or high voltage lines. The question is, does it make enough to cause what some are claiming, or not?

What is your experience standing around near them?

I don't have experience standing around near wind turbines.

When I stand near elevators I sometimes get a little vertigo.

Even if I didn't ever have any adverse reaction to vibrations I would hope I wouldn't discount those who said they did. We're creatures of nature. Not as attuned to it as our ancestors were but still affected by unnatural things.

 

[RGR]

Even if I didn't ever have any adverse reaction to vibrations I would hope I wouldn't discount those who said they did. We're creatures of nature. Not as attuned to it as our ancestors were but still affected by unnatural things.

Discounting what someone says requires a basis. Experience. Empirical evidence. Professional training. Something. My basis is that I went and wandered around one of these things, and did't notice the noise which some people are proclaiming causes a new disease.

You can imagine if someone proclaimed that they had AC-itis, and proclaimed they were dying from this noise, this disease, and were going to sue their electric company for brining alternating current into their house. Whereas you, and I, who also have alternating current in our house, don't even notice.

As far as us and "nature", well, sure, once upon a time all us chimps were happily eating bananas and not worrying about wind turbines to create electricity. Nowadays, we use computers which use that wind created power to post on the internet, and that doesn't even stop us from continuing to eat bananas if we want to! So feel free to eat bananas...and post on the internet, getting the best of the "natural" and "modern" worlds!

 

[Amelia]

Those people being made ill and driven out of their homes aren't getting the best of both worlds. Our internet connection is not more valuable than their quality of life. People don't abandon their homes after 20 years on a whim.