Falmouth Mass may dismantle wind turbines due to illnesses

[flacaltenn]

RGR --- before you pack up for that camping trip to a wind farm...

I'd really like to know WHY you think there's value in this whole technology. HOW is the production chart below gonna EVER BE "an alternative" that keeps out of the mid-east? By the mid-east reference you made above -- I'm sure you know that oil has virtually nothing to do with ELECTRICITY independence.. We HAVE BEEN energy independent on our electrical for generations. And the concept that we're gonna CONSERVE ourselfs enough to move an appreciable portion of Transport energy over to the grid --- is a pretty big fairy tale.

What you're looking at is a WELL SITED Danish OFFSHORE wind farm... The daily production chart sucks. As it does in Texas or 3/4s of the US...

 

[flacaltenn]

Yes, fossil fuels are going to be replaced. By wind, solar, geothermal, nuclear, and the other clean sources of power. Five years ago, the solar industry was talking about the pie-in-the-sky idea of 1$ a watt solar panels. Now, there are cheaper panels on sale to the public.

Solar Panels from Wholesale Solar

And, today, the goal is 0.25$ a watt. And it won't take five years to get there.

I have stood under wind mills south of Biggs Junction in Oregon. For me, all I heard was a gentle swoosh, swoosh. Since I have worked in steel mills and sawmills most of my life, the sound was hardly disturbing. In fact, on streets near the freeways, the sound is much more intense from the traffic. Perhaps we should shut down all traffic on freeways in the cities to protect your so sensitive ears.

Wind is working well, and more is going in every day in states all across the nation. You luddites are just flapping your gums uselessly.

Ahhh.. THe deniers check in... Sound levels of 50dBa would be enough to make your house a nightmare..

How about a great demonstration?? You got the guts to push play?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoVKP0G_f8M]Wind Turbine noise at 1600 feet - YouTube[/ame]

 

[flacaltenn]

And if you think that the people OBJECTING to these poor choice of sitings are all anti-wind cranks ---

You need to watch THIS ONE.. Where most of the people interviewed were ALL FOR the wind project. But feel that they were GREATLY LIED to and had facts misrepresented.. Watch to end about the misrepresentation of property value impact..

NO SITINGS like the ones depicted here ought to EVER have been allowed....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtGijb_oNeQ]Voices of Vinalhaven, Maine: wind turbine noise Part 1 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[daveman]

RGR thinks all those people should just have to live with it to atone for their sin of using electricity.

 

[jon_berzerk]

And if you think that the people OBJECTING to these poor choice of sitings are all anti-wind cranks ---

You need to watch THIS ONE.. Where most of the people interviewed were ALL FOR the wind project. But feel that they were GREATLY LIED to and had facts misrepresented.. Watch to end about the misrepresentation of property value impact..

NO SITINGS like the ones depicted here ought to EVER have been allowed....

Voices of Vinalhaven, Maine: wind turbine noise Part 1 - YouTube

failure to conduct due diligence is no excuse

 

[flacaltenn]

Just visiting a wind farm for 10 minutes does not tell the story.. These things rotate into the wind.. And the noise field is HIGHLY VARIABLE.. So you might be standing to the side of the wind stream or ACTUALLY be TOO CLOSE to get the full effect..

I know that weather plays a part because I used to live in the SF Bay area hills.. And the 2 freeways (280 and 101) were MILES from my place.. But with the right conditions --- the road noise increased to what it would be inside my car driving those roads.

Those folks in the videos above are subject to the full effect of 24/7 exposure under all weather and wind conditions.. I'd love to have some of them CHART the power and spectrum of those sounds over a couple months..

And Jon_Beserk is correct.. I know MY LOCAL govt would NEVER approve sitings as shown in that 2nd video.. That's just arrogance built on ignorance..

 

[RGR]

You luddites are just flapping your gums uselessly.

And their ideas for alternatives do seem a bit lacking. So they really like pumping CO2 out by the ton, using any of the normal methods of transport and power generation?

I still think windmills aren't the whole game, power distribution will end up being less centralized, my current setup being a perfect example. If it wasn't for my priority of fueling the car from domestic produced fuels I could almost invest the money to go off grid entirely. But as long as I fuel the car from these domestically produced fuels, I really need the grid for my extra power needs, amd I am forced to admit, it does feel nice to contribute my extra home grown electricity back to the community during most daylight hours.

 

[RGR]

Just visiting a wind farm for 10 minutes does not tell the story.. These things rotate into the wind.. And the noise field is HIGHLY VARIABLE.. So you might be standing to the side of the wind stream or ACTUALLY be TOO CLOSE to get the full effect..

Sure...noise being so much quieter close by, and then the decibels jumping up so much farther away. Makes perfect sense.

Pick a distance. I'll go sit there under one of those megawatt towers and see what I can see. I don't know if I can get right under one, but I should probably try, it would be cool.

 

[RGR]

NO SITINGS like the ones depicted here ought to EVER have been allowed....

Voices of Vinalhaven, Maine: wind turbine noise Part 1 - YouTube

I like how they admit that they didn't do their homework, and were stunned! Stunned I say! because they were stupid and didn't do their homework.

The video also didn't provide a single NOISE, just people pissed they didn't do their homework. How interesting...propaganda.....and no actual noise except their voices.

Maybe I recommend education for everyone involved?

 

[RGR]

RGR thinks all those people should just have to live with it to atone for their sin of using electricity.

using electricity isn't a sin. Not understanding how one's lifestyle (a benefit) is dependent on a cost, to someone, somewhere, is.

Personal responsibility.

This is really no different than the lawyers for Greenpeace showing up in Washington for a meeting in a fleet of SUVs. There is only a want or desire (no windmills near me! but dammit I want my lighting and internet and TV!) and complete ignorance of what their lifestyle costs.

We all need to understand where our power comes from, and take responsibility for it. I would recommend education, but in America that means you get stuck with the public school system and they are busy dealing with teachers unions and keeping the kids from getting pregnant, no time to teach them to think much.

 

[RGR]

Ahhh.. THe deniers check in... Sound levels of 50dBa would be enough to make your house a nightmare..

How about a great demonstration?? You got the guts to push play?

Wind Turbine noise at 1600 feet - YouTube

Nice video! If true, it seems like his turbine is much louder than the ones I've listened to. No wind noise...yet there he is outside....I don't suppose he had a windsock nearby somewhere we could see?

Anyone with experience talking on a cell phone outside can see where even electrical newbies like me might be going with this one.

 

[flacaltenn]

Just visiting a wind farm for 10 minutes does not tell the story.. These things rotate into the wind.. And the noise field is HIGHLY VARIABLE.. So you might be standing to the side of the wind stream or ACTUALLY be TOO CLOSE to get the full effect..

Sure...noise being so much quieter close by, and then the decibels jumping up so much farther away. Makes perfect sense.

Pick a distance. I'll go sit there under one of those megawatt towers and see what I can see. I don't know if I can get right under one, but I should probably try, it would be cool.

Hey.. Sorry to pester you with science this early in the day --- but you've stepped into one of my career specialities here -- being fields and waves..

http://www.acoustics.asn.au/conference_proceedings/AAS2011/papers/p57.pdf

The simulation used the positions of 14 wind turbines closest to a microphone array as point sources of the sounds. Results show that the combined frequencies from a single turbine produced SPL patterns within a 100 m-by-100 m area that varied by 2–5 dB whereas the combined sounds from all 14 turbines varied by 6-13 dB. Validation of these results was achieved by using three 2-by-4 microphone arrays with 1 m, 2 m and 3 m separation between the microphones. These recorded variations of 6–11 dB in their 15-minute, SPL averages.

Additional validation was also shown by direct observation; the sound from the wind turbines was observed to appear and disappear within two to three paces between fixed locations. The conclusion is that measurements of low frequency sound
levels can vary considerably over even very short distances and that point measurements may not represent the sound levels throughout their immediate neighbourhood.

Best to doubt me on political assertions because I never intentionally lie or wing it on the science topics.. Politics requires winging

Just like there are dead acoustic zones in an auditorium, outdoor sounds are similiarly distributed. But in the case of outdoor acoustics, atmospherics can create WAVE GUIDES that channel and amplify the sounds. PARTICULARLY if those sounds eminate from multiple sources and have beat pattern interferences.. And OUTDOORS these patterns will vary wildly over time..

BTW: More science.. If you sit right UNDER one --- you might not get the full effect because you'll hear the higher freq. turbine noise and mechanical screeching, but the sound field from the 80M high fan won't get to full crescendo for several wavelengths of the sound distance from the tower. There COULD be considerable masking of the low freq. noise right under the tower..

 

[The Irish Ram]

using electricity isn't a sin. Not understanding how one's lifestyle (a benefit) is dependent on a cost, to someone, somewhere, is.

Personal responsibility.

This is really no different than the lawyers for Greenpeace showing up in Washington for a meeting in a fleet of SUVs. There is only a want or desire (no windmills near me! but dammit I want my lighting and internet and TV!) and complete ignorance of what their lifestyle costs.

RGR,
If you had a career, you'd be at work by now. You specialize in forums not fields.......

 

[RGR]

Pick a distance.

Hey.. Sorry to pester you with science this early in the day --- but you've stepped into one of my career specialities here -- being fields and waves..

So just let me know which distance I need to stand at. And for how long. Would you rather volunteer a range of distances? That's cool, can you describe these distances in the form of a probability density function? So many minutes at this distance, so many at that one, to maximize the odds of me being sickened by these noises which appear to have an entire community up and in arms?

BTW: More science.. If you sit right UNDER one --- you might not get the full effect because you'll hear the higher freq. turbine noise and mechanical screeching, but the sound field from the 80M high fan won't get to full crescendo for several wavelengths of the sound distance from the tower. There COULD be considerable masking of the low freq. noise right under the tower..

Cool. Excellent! So would you like to draw me a schematic rather than deal with a probability density function? Stand this far away, downwind? That far away, upwind? Face perpendicular to the tower? Or not? Face away from it? Does it matter if it is a rainy day, or is this experiment best done on a sunny day? Is there a difference in the sound waves enough that both might have the same level, but one will sicken me and the other won't?

I say we just go with what you consider the optimal "sickening" noise conditions, I'll be prepared to barf in whatever farmers field I happen to be standing in, and we see what happens.

 

[RGR]

Hey.. Sorry to pester you with science this early in the day --- but you've stepped into one of my career specialities here -- being fields and waves..

If you had a career, you'd be at work by now. You specialize in forums not fields.......

That isn't a nice thing to say to flacaltenn. That is who you are responding to, but maybe you don't even know that? Be careful letting that hillbilly breeding and substandard public education shine through too hard now Irish.

I'm perfectly willing to grant that flacaltenn is a professional in his field, just as I am. And just as I can tell him exactly where to go and what to do to lose a limb, or even die, in the oil field, I am willing to let him lead me to somewhere I could be physically sickened by the horrifying side effects of standing in the exact right spot near those power generating blades!!

A lab rat in the experiment is I!

Now why don't you wander off and slop a hog or something, seeing as how that is about the sum total of your apparent talents in farming nirvana.

 

[flacaltenn]

Pick a distance.

Hey.. Sorry to pester you with science this early in the day --- but you've stepped into one of my career specialities here -- being fields and waves..

So just let me know which distance I need to stand at. And for how long. Would you rather volunteer a range of distances? That's cool, can you describe these distances in the form of a probability density function? So many minutes at this distance, so many at that one, to maximize the odds of me being sickened by these noises which appear to have an entire community up and in arms?

BTW: More science.. If you sit right UNDER one --- you might not get the full effect because you'll hear the higher freq. turbine noise and mechanical screeching, but the sound field from the 80M high fan won't get to full crescendo for several wavelengths of the sound distance from the tower. There COULD be considerable masking of the low freq. noise right under the tower..

Cool. Excellent! So would you like to draw me a schematic rather than deal with a probability density function? Stand this far away, downwind? That far away, upwind? Face perpendicular to the tower? Or not? Face away from it? Does it matter if it is a rainy day, or is this experiment best done on a sunny day? Is there a difference in the sound waves enough that both might have the same level, but one will sicken me and the other won't?

I say we just go with what you consider the optimal "sickening" noise conditions, I'll be prepared to barf in whatever farmers field I happen to be standing in, and we see what happens.

Hey !!! I applaud your sudden interest in the scientific method.. I'd rep ya if I could !

Just keep thinking about the fact that professional audio analysts have problems with these measurements..

So --- SOME of that stuff you conjured up WILL matter.. (rainy versus sunny? actually probably yes because of acoustic wave guiding)

The rest not so much..
If you want to do the job right --- just prepare for a long camping trip..

 

[flacaltenn]

Hey.. Sorry to pester you with science this early in the day --- but you've stepped into one of my career specialities here -- being fields and waves..

If you had a career, you'd be at work by now. You specialize in forums not fields.......

Since you're nosy... I've been an independent consultant for quite awhile.. I'm TRYING to work -- but I just had to put down one of dogs a couple days ago and I can't get my head straight.

You really shouldn't LEAP into the personal affairs of others just to whoop up on them..

So instead of having a warm furry friend at my feet while I work, I'm leaving for the Vet in about 1/2 hour to pick up her ashes..

Anymore things bugging you bunky???

 

[Mr. Sauerkraut]

I am a technical editor in europa´s leading company for wind turbines. We do not sell our products to the USA. But we also have cases like this - bored people who tries to fight this clean energy for no reason.

Well, we do anything to make every generation of our power plants more silent. We have here in Germany by now a 25% quote of green energy production. And we are a high industrialised contry with a very high need of energy. But we want the green energy and we will get it.

Meanwhile, you poison your contry with this gas fracking bullshit. We will see, which strategy will be more successful.

 

[flacaltenn]

I am a technical editor in europa´s leading company for wind turbines. We do not sell our products to the USA. But we also have cases like this - bored people who tries to fight this clean energy for no reason.

Well, we do anything to make every generation of our power plants more silent. We have here in Germany by now a 25% quote of green energy production. And we are a high industrialised contry with a very high need of energy. But we want the green energy and we will get it.

Meanwhile, you poison your contry with this gas fracking bullshit. We will see, which strategy will be more successful.

Do we need to rehash how happy your fellow sauerkrauts are with their energy bills or how all that "green money" was spent?? Be glad to do that one if ya want... Why dont you start a thread on the REMARKABLE SUCCESS of the German Green Energy program?

Congrats on the engineering.. Germans do that right. Right now the problem isn't the TURBINES.. It's the idiots who site them in existing neighborhoods and lie to the gullible "earth-savers" who think it's their duty to lower their property values and disrupt their lives..

 

[Mr. Sauerkraut]

Well, we do anything to make every generation of our power plants more silent. We have here in Germany by now a 25% quote of green energy production. And we are a high industrialised contry with a very high need of energy. But we want the green energy and we will get it.

Meanwhile, you poison your contry with this gas fracking bullshit. We will see, which strategy will be more successful.

Do we need to rehash how happy your fellow sauerkrauts are with their energy bills or how all that "green money" was spent?? Be glad to do that one if ya want... Why dont you start a thread on the REMARKABLE SUCCESS of the German Green Energy program?

Congrats on the engineering.. Germans do that right. Right now the problem isn't the TURBINES.. It's the idiots who site them in existing neighborhoods and lie to the gullible "earth-savers" who think it's their duty to lower their property values and disrupt their lives..[/QUOTE]

Well, Mrs. Merkel, who forced up the green energy change was elected again. And the FDP - the party which always wanted to support nuclear energy was kicked out of the parlament. If elections show the people´s will, the will of the germans is clear to see.
We want the green energy. And we will show the world that a high industrialized country can work with a major part of it.

And idiots...well, they´re everywhere...we have to install a stop system and a bat sensor on our plants...how weird is that?!