Fatal Police Shootings Through July 29, 2020

[White 6]

What a drama queen. I'm not buying it.
I looked at the site the OP showed or used to generate those numbers and graphical analysis and it did not have that report listed in the part just anyone can access. For all I know, he used site data and access to the tools of the site to generate it. I just do not want to pay to get the access, much less a corporate access.
Lots of things crime stats have declined since the early 2000s. Curiosity as to how the numbers were, is just idle curiosity.
As a country, we do not have a Marxist led insurrection, although some cities may. I have said it before and I will say it again. These riots aren't crap compared with the 60s. Those that are not of age to have seen it, just need to get a grip.

Oh, really?
You sound like a hack doctor who says you don't have cancer....your liver does.
Thanks for the ridiculous and self serving distinction.

Are these riots we are going through more or less than those of the sixties? I don't think there is any question they are more violent. And I don't think comparisons are useful or instructive.

Make no mistake about it. I am not part of "we" on these riots, as they are not remotely near my area. Guess my state and community still observe the norms.
Comparison only useful to remind, it is transitory not permanent change to anarchy, and we have seen worse.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Make no mistake about it. I am not part of "we" on these riots, as they are not remotely near my area. Guess my state and community still observe the norms.
Comparison only useful to remind, it is transitory not permanent change to anarchy, and we have seen worse.

Again, define "worse" as over thirty innocent by standers have died as a result of these riots and the toll in terms of property damage is $25 million dollars just in Minnesota alone.

 

[White 6]

Make no mistake about it. I am not part of "we" on these riots, as they are not remotely near my area. Guess my state and community still observe the norms.
Comparison only useful to remind, it is transitory not permanent change to anarchy, and we have seen worse.

Again, define "worse" as over thirty innocent by standers have died as a result of these riots and the toll in terms of property damage is $25 million dollars just in Minnesota alone.

You wish to key the national election on riot events in specific cities, OK. If we do away with states rights and local jurisdiction, it becomes this administration's fault, as it happened on his watch. The solution to the Fkd up situation is rarely to assume the one responsible is the best one to fix it, as the same constitution, which kept him from exercising dictatorial central control over all aspects of the country will still be in place, unless the populous is willing to go along with the destruction of our country as we know it. Not happening.

 

[j-mac]

First Nonsense. Let me put your statistics into context. Let's say that you are a cop and you are writing tickets to speeders. You have a stretch of road, a down hill stretch of road that you are on every day. Pretty much everyone is speeding. You don't like Red Cars, and you pull over more of them than any other color. In fact, half the cars you pull over are red. Perhaps the color attracts the eye easier, whatever. In a few months, the statistics say that Red Cars are more likely to be speeding than any other color car. So now, you have a Statistical proof that Red Cars are driven dangerously, and you can focus on the Red Cars even more, because statistically it is more likely that they are speeding than other cars. When the truth is that everyone is driving about the same speed, and it is merely your choice that makes the Red Cars the targets.

You have to go to a larger subset of statistics. Let's take Traffic Stops.

The Stanford Open Policing Project

We are collecting, releasing, and analyzing data on millions of traffic stops across the United States.

openpolicing.stanford.edu

Now, what did we learn looking at over 200 million traffic stops? We learned that Blacks were pulled over more often than whites, statistically speaking. So obviously Black Drivers were more likely to be speeding and driving recklessly right? Yet, those same Black Drivers were pulled over less often at night, when the color or identity of the driver was harder to discern. So wait a minute, if Black Drivers were in fact more likely to be speeding, than that would continue through to the darkness wouldn't it? Yet, in the dark, when you could not tell the car was driven by a Black, they were less likely to be pulled over. Odd isn't it? Seeing Red Cars yet?

SO let's go with Searches. Blacks were more likely to have their cars searched, yet they were less likely statistically speaking to have actionable contraband. By that I mean enough drugs to warrant an arrest, or weapons, or other illegal items in the car. So wait a minute. If Whites were more likely statistically speaking, to have that contraband, why were they not searched more often than their Black counterparts? Red cars anyone?

But let's look at the arrest and conviction rates. Blacks being generally poorer than the Whites were often unable to afford quality Legal Council. Back to cars. A $15,000 hatchback is not going to be as good as a $150,000 sedan right? So quality cost money, and quality delivers better results.

What happened when a Black man was able to afford that quality legal representation? OJ Simpson anyone? Even now people are outraged that he got off. Several on this board will probably reply that it was because of his race, but it really wasn't. IT was because his lawyers were the best in the nation, and cost several million dollars to defend him. When the legal representation is that expensive, like the quality car we mentioned above, it usually gets much better results.

Then we have the Police. A survey of Judges, and Lawyers, indicated that they believed that police lied in about one case out of five. In other words, twenty percent of the court cases involving police have a lie in there somewhere. How they got the evidence, how they got something. Now, we know these lies are exposed when you have the high priced lawyers who have the money, time, and resources to check and double check every single assertion by the Police. They have investigators, junior lawyers, and others who go blind practically as they examine every thing the cop asserts. The statement of Mark Furman in the OJ Trial that he had never used the N word to describe a Black, and then the audio tape of him saying the word is a good example. At that point, everything that Mark Furman said was now suspect, and the Jury would doubt his assertions on the facts.

It wasn't that OJ was black, it was that OJ was represented by the finest Criminal Defense Lawyers in the Country. People who were legends before they took the case like F. Lee Baily. No public defenders office would have found that recording. No public Defender would have been able to attack the evidence piece by piece, and create the doubt that existed. Only a very skilled, and thus very expensive lawyer could.

Look at the Innocence Project. In nearly every single exoneration, we find that the Convicted Felon was represented by either a very cheap and thus not very good lawyer, or a Public Defender, who has fifty cases that he can't afford to spend the time, or resources to prove the defendant innocent. In every case, we find Police and Proprietorial Misconduct was rampant.

Now, lets step away from Statistics for a minute. We have shown I think that statistics can be made to show whatever you want, when you just look at the surface. Hence the old saying Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.

Let's talk about the Constitution. Every single citizen is entitled to the same rights as any other citizen. It is the basis of the idea, which has sadly never actually become reality, that no one is above the law. If we are to give the police a pass in their mistreatment of Blacks based upon demonstrably flawed statistics, we would be denying an entire group of people their rights under the Constitution. We would be driving one of the last, if not the last, nail in the coffin of our nation. We should demand that people, citizens, of this nation are treated fairly and equally. We should be voting anyone who makes such an argument out of office. And we should demand that any Judge who allows such nonsense to guide his actions be impeached and disbarred from ever working in the legal field ever again.

So the Statistics are at best questionable. The Actions of the police are certainly questionable, and the justification for those actions, the questionable statistics, is a weak reed to grasp.

Do you see the Red Cars yet? Because the red cars are right in front of you.

Sorry but your analogy doesn't work....The reason statistics fail to tell the picture here is that because every situation is different...We must look at these situations as stand alone's, and judge them individually....One thing I am noticing is that in nearly every case, involves the suspect resisting, or fighting against being detained which escalates the the event...

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

You wish to key the national election on riot events in specific cities, OK. If we do away with states rights and local jurisdiction, it becomes this administration's fault, as it happened on his watch. The solution to the Fkd up situation is rarely to assume the one responsible is the best one to fix it, as the same constitution, which kept him from exercising dictatorial central control over all aspects of the country will still be in place, unless the populous is willing to go along with the destruction of our country as we know it. Not happening.

Don't let your binary fixated partisan imagination run away with you.
I never once mentioned the name of the president and yes, the key is to clean up these blue state snake pits
where these riots are occurring but that's not something Trump can do on his own or should attempt to do.

Give me an example of the "dictatorial central control over all aspects of the country" Trump was restrained
from invoking if not for the Constitution. Go ahead. Yes...do tell.

Ha! You're an absurd paranoid and delusional fool! The national elections WILL key in on the George Floyd/
BLM riots in Minneapolis, Kenosha, Seattle, Portland, New York, Chicago. But there's nothing you can do to
stop people from being horrified and revolted by what they see in their living rooms in the evenings (to the small degree the networks will report on the "peaceful protestors") and I never brought the matter up.

But note this: Trump and the right has denounced the blight of Marxist inspired rioters and we can't even get Joe Biden to comment on the matter except to urge the defunding of our police (through K. Harris). Same with Pelosi and the rest of the democrat leadership.

You try to bring everything around to Trump's culpability for the decay of law and order but you just can't do it. And even if you can't do that you will blame him for wanting to be a dictator even when there is zero proof of that. You live in a sad dream world.

 

[White 6]

You wish to key the national election on riot events in specific cities, OK. If we do away with states rights and local jurisdiction, it becomes this administration's fault, as it happened on his watch. The solution to the Fkd up situation is rarely to assume the one responsible is the best one to fix it, as the same constitution, which kept him from exercising dictatorial central control over all aspects of the country will still be in place, unless the populous is willing to go along with the destruction of our country as we know it. Not happening.

Don't let your binary fixated partisan imagination run away with you.
I never once mentioned the name of the president and yes, the key is to clean up these blue state snake pits
where these riots are occurring but that's not something Trump can do on his own or should attempt to do.

Give me an example of the "dictatorial central control over all aspects of the country" Trump was restrained
from invoking if not for the Constitution. Go ahead.

Ha! You're an absurd paranoid and delusional fool! The national elections WILL key in on the George Floyd/
BLM riots in Minneapolis, Kenosha, Seattle, Portland, New York, Chicago. But there's nothing you can do to
stop people from being horrified and revolted by what they see in their living rooms in the evenings (to the small degree the networks will report on the "peaceful protestors") and I never brought the matter up.

You try to bring everything around to Trump's culpability for the decay of law and order but you just can't do it. And even if you can't do that you will blame him for wanting to be a dictator even when there is zero proof of that. You live in a sad dream world.

Letting binary partisan thinking rule is exactly what you are doing by thinking it is simply a matter of getting rid of democrats in blue states. Individual politicians must be rejected, it is true. I am not much of a new age kind of guy, as I do not see it working in many areas, but is a distinctly local problem due to local management, and just like the worst areas of the black community, will not change unless local people can put fourth and back a local candidate, based on character, judgement and willing to make the tough choices for local community values, whether they get re-elected or not. It sucks to have to say "NO" but that is what responsibility calls for. Glad it is there local problem and not my local problem.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Letting binary partisan thinking rule is exactly what you are doing by thinking it is simply a matter of getting rid of democrats in blue states.

If you could find an equivalent to Baltimore, Portland, Seattle or NY or Chicago or St. Louis in a red state I would be forced to agree with you. But that's not happening.

The problem is long embedded in those blue refuges. That's just fact! That's not a product of my
faulty thinking!

Individual politicians must be rejected, it is true. I am not much of a new age kind of guy, as I do not see it working in many areas, but is a distinctly local problem due to local management, and just like the worst areas of the black community, will not change unless local people can put fourth and back a local candidate, based on character, judgement and willing to make the tough choices for local community values, whether they get re-elected or not. It sucks to have to say "NO" but that is what responsibility calls for. Glad it is there local problem and not my local problem.

I have to say the campaign of Kim Klacic in Baltimore is the first glimmer of real hope I've seen in a long time. That's what she represents....hope! Let's see what happens and if she's torn to pieces by the entrenched machine or not.

 

[j-mac]

Letting binary partisan thinking rule is exactly what you are doing by thinking it is simply a matter of getting rid of democrats in blue states.

If you could find an equivalent to Baltimore, Portland, Seattle or NY or Chicago or St. Louis in a red state I would be forced to agree with you. But that's not happening.

The problem is long embedded in those blue refuges. That's just fact! That's not a product of my
faulty thinking!

Individual politicians must be rejected, it is true. I am not much of a new age kind of guy, as I do not see it working in many areas, but is a distinctly local problem due to local management, and just like the worst areas of the black community, will not change unless local people can put fourth and back a local candidate, based on character, judgement and willing to make the tough choices for local community values, whether they get re-elected or not. It sucks to have to say "NO" but that is what responsibility calls for. Glad it is there local problem and not my local problem.

I have to say the campaign of Kim Klacic in Baltimore is the first glimmer of real hope I've seen in a long time. That's what she represents....hope! Let's see what happens and if she's torn to pieces by the entrenched machine or not.

Sad to say she will be....I lived in Harford County for 20 years, so I know a little about Baltimore....Nothing in that corrupt cess pool will change until they clean up the causal areas...Druid Hill, and downtown west of "the Alemeda" are gang infested, areas of crime and drugs....And as long as the money in that town can keep it in those areas, then they won't leave....And THAT's how you effect change, when money leaves.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Sad to say she will be....I lived in Harford County for 20 years, so I know a little about Baltimore....Nothing in that corrupt cess pool will change until they clean up the causal areas...Druid Hill, and downtown west of "the Alemeda" are gang infested, areas of crime and drugs....And as long as the money in that town can keep it in those areas, then they won't leave....And THAT's how you effect change, when money leaves.

So you're saying Elijah Cummings was a corrupt, bought and paid for lackey to those corrupt special
interests there.

 

[j-mac]

Sad to say she will be....I lived in Harford County for 20 years, so I know a little about Baltimore....Nothing in that corrupt cess pool will change until they clean up the causal areas...Druid Hill, and downtown west of "the Alemeda" are gang infested, areas of crime and drugs....And as long as the money in that town can keep it in those areas, then they won't leave....And THAT's how you effect change, when money leaves.

So you're saying Elijah Cummings was a corrupt, bought and paid for lackey to those corrupt special
interests there.

Absofreakinlutly!!!!.....

 

[White 6]

Letting binary partisan thinking rule is exactly what you are doing by thinking it is simply a matter of getting rid of democrats in blue states.

If you could find an equivalent to Baltimore, Portland, Seattle or NY or Chicago or St. Louis in a red state I would be forced to agree with you. But that's not happening.

The problem is long embedded in those blue refuges. That's just fact! That's not a product of my
faulty thinking!

Individual politicians must be rejected, it is true. I am not much of a new age kind of guy, as I do not see it working in many areas, but is a distinctly local problem due to local management, and just like the worst areas of the black community, will not change unless local people can put fourth and back a local candidate, based on character, judgement and willing to make the tough choices for local community values, whether they get re-elected or not. It sucks to have to say "NO" but that is what responsibility calls for. Glad it is there local problem and not my local problem.

I have to say the campaign of Kim Klacic in Baltimore is the first glimmer of real hope I've seen in a long time. That's what she represents....hope! Let's see what happens and if she's torn to pieces by the entrenched machine or not.

Unfamiliar with her, but understand your standards, not just your political leanings and hope you are correct and that she makes it to where she can make a difference.

 

[Meathead]

First Nonsense. Let me put your statistics into context. Let's say that you are a cop and you are writing tickets to speeders. You have a stretch of road, a down hill stretch of road that you are on every day. Pretty much everyone is speeding. You don't like Red Cars, and you pull over more of them than any other color. In fact, half the cars you pull over are red. Perhaps the color attracts the eye easier, whatever. In a few months, the statistics say that Red Cars are more likely to be speeding than any other color car. So now, you have a Statistical proof that Red Cars are driven dangerously, and you can focus on the Red Cars even more, because statistically it is more likely that they are speeding than other cars. When the truth is that everyone is driving about the same speed, and it is merely your choice that makes the Red Cars the targets.

You have to go to a larger subset of statistics. Let's take Traffic Stops.

The Stanford Open Policing Project

We are collecting, releasing, and analyzing data on millions of traffic stops across the United States.

openpolicing.stanford.edu

Now, what did we learn looking at over 200 million traffic stops? We learned that Blacks were pulled over more often than whites, statistically speaking. So obviously Black Drivers were more likely to be speeding and driving recklessly right? Yet, those same Black Drivers were pulled over less often at night, when the color or identity of the driver was harder to discern. So wait a minute, if Black Drivers were in fact more likely to be speeding, than that would continue through to the darkness wouldn't it? Yet, in the dark, when you could not tell the car was driven by a Black, they were less likely to be pulled over. Odd isn't it? Seeing Red Cars yet?

SO let's go with Searches. Blacks were more likely to have their cars searched, yet they were less likely statistically speaking to have actionable contraband. By that I mean enough drugs to warrant an arrest, or weapons, or other illegal items in the car. So wait a minute. If Whites were more likely statistically speaking, to have that contraband, why were they not searched more often than their Black counterparts? Red cars anyone?

But let's look at the arrest and conviction rates. Blacks being generally poorer than the Whites were often unable to afford quality Legal Council. Back to cars. A $15,000 hatchback is not going to be as good as a $150,000 sedan right? So quality cost money, and quality delivers better results.

What happened when a Black man was able to afford that quality legal representation? OJ Simpson anyone? Even now people are outraged that he got off. Several on this board will probably reply that it was because of his race, but it really wasn't. IT was because his lawyers were the best in the nation, and cost several million dollars to defend him. When the legal representation is that expensive, like the quality car we mentioned above, it usually gets much better results.

Then we have the Police. A survey of Judges, and Lawyers, indicated that they believed that police lied in about one case out of five. In other words, twenty percent of the court cases involving police have a lie in there somewhere. How they got the evidence, how they got something. Now, we know these lies are exposed when you have the high priced lawyers who have the money, time, and resources to check and double check every single assertion by the Police. They have investigators, junior lawyers, and others who go blind practically as they examine every thing the cop asserts. The statement of Mark Furman in the OJ Trial that he had never used the N word to describe a Black, and then the audio tape of him saying the word is a good example. At that point, everything that Mark Furman said was now suspect, and the Jury would doubt his assertions on the facts.

It wasn't that OJ was black, it was that OJ was represented by the finest Criminal Defense Lawyers in the Country. People who were legends before they took the case like F. Lee Baily. No public defenders office would have found that recording. No public Defender would have been able to attack the evidence piece by piece, and create the doubt that existed. Only a very skilled, and thus very expensive lawyer could.

Look at the Innocence Project. In nearly every single exoneration, we find that the Convicted Felon was represented by either a very cheap and thus not very good lawyer, or a Public Defender, who has fifty cases that he can't afford to spend the time, or resources to prove the defendant innocent. In every case, we find Police and Proprietorial Misconduct was rampant.

Now, lets step away from Statistics for a minute. We have shown I think that statistics can be made to show whatever you want, when you just look at the surface. Hence the old saying Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.

Let's talk about the Constitution. Every single citizen is entitled to the same rights as any other citizen. It is the basis of the idea, which has sadly never actually become reality, that no one is above the law. If we are to give the police a pass in their mistreatment of Blacks based upon demonstrably flawed statistics, we would be denying an entire group of people their rights under the Constitution. We would be driving one of the last, if not the last, nail in the coffin of our nation. We should demand that people, citizens, of this nation are treated fairly and equally. We should be voting anyone who makes such an argument out of office. And we should demand that any Judge who allows such nonsense to guide his actions be impeached and disbarred from ever working in the legal field ever again.

So the Statistics are at best questionable. The Actions of the police are certainly questionable, and the justification for those actions, the questionable statistics, is a weak reed to grasp.

Do you see the Red Cars yet? Because the red cars are right in front of you.

Oh, cry us a fooking river. Facts are facts,

 

[SavannahMann]

First Nonsense. Let me put your statistics into context. Let's say that you are a cop and you are writing tickets to speeders. You have a stretch of road, a down hill stretch of road that you are on every day. Pretty much everyone is speeding. You don't like Red Cars, and you pull over more of them than any other color. In fact, half the cars you pull over are red. Perhaps the color attracts the eye easier, whatever. In a few months, the statistics say that Red Cars are more likely to be speeding than any other color car. So now, you have a Statistical proof that Red Cars are driven dangerously, and you can focus on the Red Cars even more, because statistically it is more likely that they are speeding than other cars. When the truth is that everyone is driving about the same speed, and it is merely your choice that makes the Red Cars the targets.

You have to go to a larger subset of statistics. Let's take Traffic Stops.

The Stanford Open Policing Project

We are collecting, releasing, and analyzing data on millions of traffic stops across the United States.

openpolicing.stanford.edu

Now, what did we learn looking at over 200 million traffic stops? We learned that Blacks were pulled over more often than whites, statistically speaking. So obviously Black Drivers were more likely to be speeding and driving recklessly right? Yet, those same Black Drivers were pulled over less often at night, when the color or identity of the driver was harder to discern. So wait a minute, if Black Drivers were in fact more likely to be speeding, than that would continue through to the darkness wouldn't it? Yet, in the dark, when you could not tell the car was driven by a Black, they were less likely to be pulled over. Odd isn't it? Seeing Red Cars yet?

SO let's go with Searches. Blacks were more likely to have their cars searched, yet they were less likely statistically speaking to have actionable contraband. By that I mean enough drugs to warrant an arrest, or weapons, or other illegal items in the car. So wait a minute. If Whites were more likely statistically speaking, to have that contraband, why were they not searched more often than their Black counterparts? Red cars anyone?

But let's look at the arrest and conviction rates. Blacks being generally poorer than the Whites were often unable to afford quality Legal Council. Back to cars. A $15,000 hatchback is not going to be as good as a $150,000 sedan right? So quality cost money, and quality delivers better results.

What happened when a Black man was able to afford that quality legal representation? OJ Simpson anyone? Even now people are outraged that he got off. Several on this board will probably reply that it was because of his race, but it really wasn't. IT was because his lawyers were the best in the nation, and cost several million dollars to defend him. When the legal representation is that expensive, like the quality car we mentioned above, it usually gets much better results.

Then we have the Police. A survey of Judges, and Lawyers, indicated that they believed that police lied in about one case out of five. In other words, twenty percent of the court cases involving police have a lie in there somewhere. How they got the evidence, how they got something. Now, we know these lies are exposed when you have the high priced lawyers who have the money, time, and resources to check and double check every single assertion by the Police. They have investigators, junior lawyers, and others who go blind practically as they examine every thing the cop asserts. The statement of Mark Furman in the OJ Trial that he had never used the N word to describe a Black, and then the audio tape of him saying the word is a good example. At that point, everything that Mark Furman said was now suspect, and the Jury would doubt his assertions on the facts.

It wasn't that OJ was black, it was that OJ was represented by the finest Criminal Defense Lawyers in the Country. People who were legends before they took the case like F. Lee Baily. No public defenders office would have found that recording. No public Defender would have been able to attack the evidence piece by piece, and create the doubt that existed. Only a very skilled, and thus very expensive lawyer could.

Look at the Innocence Project. In nearly every single exoneration, we find that the Convicted Felon was represented by either a very cheap and thus not very good lawyer, or a Public Defender, who has fifty cases that he can't afford to spend the time, or resources to prove the defendant innocent. In every case, we find Police and Proprietorial Misconduct was rampant.

Now, lets step away from Statistics for a minute. We have shown I think that statistics can be made to show whatever you want, when you just look at the surface. Hence the old saying Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.

Let's talk about the Constitution. Every single citizen is entitled to the same rights as any other citizen. It is the basis of the idea, which has sadly never actually become reality, that no one is above the law. If we are to give the police a pass in their mistreatment of Blacks based upon demonstrably flawed statistics, we would be denying an entire group of people their rights under the Constitution. We would be driving one of the last, if not the last, nail in the coffin of our nation. We should demand that people, citizens, of this nation are treated fairly and equally. We should be voting anyone who makes such an argument out of office. And we should demand that any Judge who allows such nonsense to guide his actions be impeached and disbarred from ever working in the legal field ever again.

So the Statistics are at best questionable. The Actions of the police are certainly questionable, and the justification for those actions, the questionable statistics, is a weak reed to grasp.

Do you see the Red Cars yet? Because the red cars are right in front of you.

Sorry but your analogy doesn't work....The reason statistics fail to tell the picture here is that because every situation is different...We must look at these situations as stand alone's, and judge them individually....One thing I am noticing is that in nearly every case, involves the suspect resisting, or fighting against being detained which escalates the the event...

The stand alone does not work when you are examining a systemic problem. You were 101st Airborne. I was 82nd. Let's say that a unit has a roughly five percent injury rate on jumps. It is higher than the average for other units. If you look at the individual cases, you find that minor errors in landings and rigging caused the injuries. If you look at it as a Systemic Problem, the larger picture, you find that there is an issue with how the jumps are planned, and the training for the soldiers. Only by addressing the systemic can you hope to really understand the individual issues.

Another example. Several 737's started to fall out of the sky during the 1980's. These crashes were written off as weather, or pilot error. Experienced pilots causing problems that led to the crashes. Not unheard of but not the answer. It wasn't until the NTSB discovered a problem with the airplane that the crashes stopped. The actuator for the tail rudder was freezing, and causing an uncontrollable roll and turn. The Pilots never had a chance to understand what was happening or what to do to fix it, they were too close to the ground. The problem was not individual, it was systemic. A design flaw, an unintended flaw that nobody had ever considered even being possible.

But let's get back to police shootings. Looking at the individual cases means you examine the one, and find that while regrettable, it was allowable by law. When you examine the larger picture, you find that there were an awful lot of those regrettable but allowable incidents. In Georgia, nearly half of the people shot by police were unarmed, or shot in the back. Each case was regrettable, but allowable. Only when you examine the larger picture do you get the idea that we need to seriously reconsider our training and policies. Because half of the people being killed in such circumstances, is just too many.

OVER THE LINE: Police shootings in Georgia

Explore reports and cases from The Atlanta Journal-Constitution’s year-long examination of police shootings in Georgia.

investigations.ajc.com

When we look at the larger picture, we often learn a great deal. During World War II and Korea, and most of the way through Vietnam, Morphine was readily available to treat injured people with. We were doing the best we could, treating the agonizing pain of the wounded soldier. But it was not until someone took a larger look at the issue, that we discovered the truth. In treating the pain first, we were killing our soldiers. Killing them with good intentions. By shooting them up with Morphine, we were in fact sending them into shock, which killed them. Survivable wounds were killing people, because we did not know what was really happening. When we looked at the larger picture, we saw a problem. We discovered the answer, and adjusted the treatment regime, and restricted Morphine to the Medics, and told them that first you had to stabilize the patient, and treat them for shock, and then treat them for pain. Otherwise, pain was the patients problems. I do not blame the Medics and soldiers for their actions. We did not know. We thought we were doing the right thing. We believed we needed to do that to help our buddies. We learned, and now we know that to help our buddies, we may have to ignore their pain for a bit.

The larger picture, statistical trends is used in every other facet of life. Only when we come to Law Enforcement are the types of statistics we are allowed to talk about limited.

Take anything. Take the AV-8 Harrier that the Marines got. A fantastic plane. One of my favorites to be honest. The British told the Marines that the plane was a widowmaker. It would kill the pilot if he was not sufficiently trained and experienced. The Marines took this to heart, and for the first squadron assigned only experienced pilots to the aircraft. There were no accidents that led to the loss of aircraft. The Marines decided the British were overselling the dangers. Newer less experienced pilots were assigned, and immediately the number of accidents increased. Loss of aircraft, and dead pilots, and the truth was right in front of them. They could have written it off as we are in a dangerous business and accidents happen. Instead they looked at the systemic situation, and determined the truth. The pilots needed more experience before transitioning to the AV-8.

Topgun. The Naval Fighter training program. Started when statistics showed that the pilots were not trained sufficiently well in Dogfighting.

Low level flights. We learned using Statistics that our ideals of safety from anti aircraft weapons by flying low and fast was not true. The enemy could and would engage our aircraft. We suffered fewer lost aircraft by flying higher, because it gave the pilot time to react to the incoming fire.

We use statistics at work to maximize worker safety. Statistically workplaces with a heavy emphasis on safety suffer fewer injuries, and lost time accidents. Statistically people who work in industrial areas wearing personal protective gear suffer fewer injuries.

Statistics in this case show clear racism in the traffic stops. Statistics in the case of my State of Georgia show that we need to address the use of force policies and training to reduce the number of people shot by police. We will never be perfect. We can strive to be better. And only by looking at not only the individual incidents, but the systemic situation, can we ever hope to become better. Ignoring one will always keep you in the status quo, which means the mess you are in now.

 

[harmonica]

First Nonsense. Let me put your statistics into context. Let's say that you are a cop and you are writing tickets to speeders. You have a stretch of road, a down hill stretch of road that you are on every day. Pretty much everyone is speeding. You don't like Red Cars, and you pull over more of them than any other color. In fact, half the cars you pull over are red. Perhaps the color attracts the eye easier, whatever. In a few months, the statistics say that Red Cars are more likely to be speeding than any other color car. So now, you have a Statistical proof that Red Cars are driven dangerously, and you can focus on the Red Cars even more, because statistically it is more likely that they are speeding than other cars. When the truth is that everyone is driving about the same speed, and it is merely your choice that makes the Red Cars the targets.

You have to go to a larger subset of statistics. Let's take Traffic Stops.

The Stanford Open Policing Project

We are collecting, releasing, and analyzing data on millions of traffic stops across the United States.

openpolicing.stanford.edu

Now, what did we learn looking at over 200 million traffic stops? We learned that Blacks were pulled over more often than whites, statistically speaking. So obviously Black Drivers were more likely to be speeding and driving recklessly right? Yet, those same Black Drivers were pulled over less often at night, when the color or identity of the driver was harder to discern. So wait a minute, if Black Drivers were in fact more likely to be speeding, than that would continue through to the darkness wouldn't it? Yet, in the dark, when you could not tell the car was driven by a Black, they were less likely to be pulled over. Odd isn't it? Seeing Red Cars yet?

SO let's go with Searches. Blacks were more likely to have their cars searched, yet they were less likely statistically speaking to have actionable contraband. By that I mean enough drugs to warrant an arrest, or weapons, or other illegal items in the car. So wait a minute. If Whites were more likely statistically speaking, to have that contraband, why were they not searched more often than their Black counterparts? Red cars anyone?

But let's look at the arrest and conviction rates. Blacks being generally poorer than the Whites were often unable to afford quality Legal Council. Back to cars. A $15,000 hatchback is not going to be as good as a $150,000 sedan right? So quality cost money, and quality delivers better results.

What happened when a Black man was able to afford that quality legal representation? OJ Simpson anyone? Even now people are outraged that he got off. Several on this board will probably reply that it was because of his race, but it really wasn't. IT was because his lawyers were the best in the nation, and cost several million dollars to defend him. When the legal representation is that expensive, like the quality car we mentioned above, it usually gets much better results.

Then we have the Police. A survey of Judges, and Lawyers, indicated that they believed that police lied in about one case out of five. In other words, twenty percent of the court cases involving police have a lie in there somewhere. How they got the evidence, how they got something. Now, we know these lies are exposed when you have the high priced lawyers who have the money, time, and resources to check and double check every single assertion by the Police. They have investigators, junior lawyers, and others who go blind practically as they examine every thing the cop asserts. The statement of Mark Furman in the OJ Trial that he had never used the N word to describe a Black, and then the audio tape of him saying the word is a good example. At that point, everything that Mark Furman said was now suspect, and the Jury would doubt his assertions on the facts.

It wasn't that OJ was black, it was that OJ was represented by the finest Criminal Defense Lawyers in the Country. People who were legends before they took the case like F. Lee Baily. No public defenders office would have found that recording. No public Defender would have been able to attack the evidence piece by piece, and create the doubt that existed. Only a very skilled, and thus very expensive lawyer could.

Look at the Innocence Project. In nearly every single exoneration, we find that the Convicted Felon was represented by either a very cheap and thus not very good lawyer, or a Public Defender, who has fifty cases that he can't afford to spend the time, or resources to prove the defendant innocent. In every case, we find Police and Proprietorial Misconduct was rampant.

Now, lets step away from Statistics for a minute. We have shown I think that statistics can be made to show whatever you want, when you just look at the surface. Hence the old saying Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.

Let's talk about the Constitution. Every single citizen is entitled to the same rights as any other citizen. It is the basis of the idea, which has sadly never actually become reality, that no one is above the law. If we are to give the police a pass in their mistreatment of Blacks based upon demonstrably flawed statistics, we would be denying an entire group of people their rights under the Constitution. We would be driving one of the last, if not the last, nail in the coffin of our nation. We should demand that people, citizens, of this nation are treated fairly and equally. We should be voting anyone who makes such an argument out of office. And we should demand that any Judge who allows such nonsense to guide his actions be impeached and disbarred from ever working in the legal field ever again.

So the Statistics are at best questionable. The Actions of the police are certainly questionable, and the justification for those actions, the questionable statistics, is a weak reed to grasp.

Do you see the Red Cars yet? Because the red cars are right in front of you.

exoneration does not mean innocent

When the DNA of the person committing the crime does not match the person convicted, it most certainly does.

hahahhaha
....most of the OJ jury was BLACK!! they voted based on skin color--not the facts...it was one of the most stupid and racist juries ever

Again nonsense. There was the lie Furman was caught in. That again tainted his testimony. And since he discovered most of the evidence, it tainted the evidence. Then there was the gloves “shrinking”.

Kato came off looking like Bill and Ted attended Ridgeway High. And the prosecution experts went into so much detail that the Jury and the people at home got bored and changed the channel. Remember it was broadcast live every day.

Marsha Clark tried to explain to the Jury that the Glove shrank. She should have offered that up before. She tried to explain that yes Furman was caught in a lie, but he totally told the truth about everything else.

And if Race is the deciding Factor in Juries then the Whites who excused the cops who beat Rodney King did so based on Race? Because in my opinion, there again, the Defense Attorney did a fantastic job. The inability of the Prosecution experts to identify when the action went from Justified to excessive was damning for the Prosecution.

......so, at night the cops see a car violating a traffic law, or something is wrong with the car--and the cops don't make a stop because they can't see what race the driver is?????!!!!!
WOW!!!!!! = idiocy

 

[harmonica]

First Nonsense. Let me put your statistics into context. Let's say that you are a cop and you are writing tickets to speeders. You have a stretch of road, a down hill stretch of road that you are on every day. Pretty much everyone is speeding. You don't like Red Cars, and you pull over more of them than any other color. In fact, half the cars you pull over are red. Perhaps the color attracts the eye easier, whatever. In a few months, the statistics say that Red Cars are more likely to be speeding than any other color car. So now, you have a Statistical proof that Red Cars are driven dangerously, and you can focus on the Red Cars even more, because statistically it is more likely that they are speeding than other cars. When the truth is that everyone is driving about the same speed, and it is merely your choice that makes the Red Cars the targets.

You have to go to a larger subset of statistics. Let's take Traffic Stops.

The Stanford Open Policing Project

We are collecting, releasing, and analyzing data on millions of traffic stops across the United States.

openpolicing.stanford.edu

Now, what did we learn looking at over 200 million traffic stops? We learned that Blacks were pulled over more often than whites, statistically speaking. So obviously Black Drivers were more likely to be speeding and driving recklessly right? Yet, those same Black Drivers were pulled over less often at night, when the color or identity of the driver was harder to discern. So wait a minute, if Black Drivers were in fact more likely to be speeding, than that would continue through to the darkness wouldn't it? Yet, in the dark, when you could not tell the car was driven by a Black, they were less likely to be pulled over. Odd isn't it? Seeing Red Cars yet?

SO let's go with Searches. Blacks were more likely to have their cars searched, yet they were less likely statistically speaking to have actionable contraband. By that I mean enough drugs to warrant an arrest, or weapons, or other illegal items in the car. So wait a minute. If Whites were more likely statistically speaking, to have that contraband, why were they not searched more often than their Black counterparts? Red cars anyone?

But let's look at the arrest and conviction rates. Blacks being generally poorer than the Whites were often unable to afford quality Legal Council. Back to cars. A $15,000 hatchback is not going to be as good as a $150,000 sedan right? So quality cost money, and quality delivers better results.

What happened when a Black man was able to afford that quality legal representation? OJ Simpson anyone? Even now people are outraged that he got off. Several on this board will probably reply that it was because of his race, but it really wasn't. IT was because his lawyers were the best in the nation, and cost several million dollars to defend him. When the legal representation is that expensive, like the quality car we mentioned above, it usually gets much better results.

Then we have the Police. A survey of Judges, and Lawyers, indicated that they believed that police lied in about one case out of five. In other words, twenty percent of the court cases involving police have a lie in there somewhere. How they got the evidence, how they got something. Now, we know these lies are exposed when you have the high priced lawyers who have the money, time, and resources to check and double check every single assertion by the Police. They have investigators, junior lawyers, and others who go blind practically as they examine every thing the cop asserts. The statement of Mark Furman in the OJ Trial that he had never used the N word to describe a Black, and then the audio tape of him saying the word is a good example. At that point, everything that Mark Furman said was now suspect, and the Jury would doubt his assertions on the facts.

It wasn't that OJ was black, it was that OJ was represented by the finest Criminal Defense Lawyers in the Country. People who were legends before they took the case like F. Lee Baily. No public defenders office would have found that recording. No public Defender would have been able to attack the evidence piece by piece, and create the doubt that existed. Only a very skilled, and thus very expensive lawyer could.

Look at the Innocence Project. In nearly every single exoneration, we find that the Convicted Felon was represented by either a very cheap and thus not very good lawyer, or a Public Defender, who has fifty cases that he can't afford to spend the time, or resources to prove the defendant innocent. In every case, we find Police and Proprietorial Misconduct was rampant.

Now, lets step away from Statistics for a minute. We have shown I think that statistics can be made to show whatever you want, when you just look at the surface. Hence the old saying Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.

Let's talk about the Constitution. Every single citizen is entitled to the same rights as any other citizen. It is the basis of the idea, which has sadly never actually become reality, that no one is above the law. If we are to give the police a pass in their mistreatment of Blacks based upon demonstrably flawed statistics, we would be denying an entire group of people their rights under the Constitution. We would be driving one of the last, if not the last, nail in the coffin of our nation. We should demand that people, citizens, of this nation are treated fairly and equally. We should be voting anyone who makes such an argument out of office. And we should demand that any Judge who allows such nonsense to guide his actions be impeached and disbarred from ever working in the legal field ever again.

So the Statistics are at best questionable. The Actions of the police are certainly questionable, and the justification for those actions, the questionable statistics, is a weak reed to grasp.

Do you see the Red Cars yet? Because the red cars are right in front of you.

Sorry but your analogy doesn't work....The reason statistics fail to tell the picture here is that because every situation is different...We must look at these situations as stand alone's, and judge them individually....One thing I am noticing is that in nearly every case, involves the suspect resisting, or fighting against being detained which escalates the the event...

The stand alone does not work when you are examining a systemic problem. You were 101st Airborne. I was 82nd. Let's say that a unit has a roughly five percent injury rate on jumps. It is higher than the average for other units. If you look at the individual cases, you find that minor errors in landings and rigging caused the injuries. If you look at it as a Systemic Problem, the larger picture, you find that there is an issue with how the jumps are planned, and the training for the soldiers. Only by addressing the systemic can you hope to really understand the individual issues.

Another example. Several 737's started to fall out of the sky during the 1980's. These crashes were written off as weather, or pilot error. Experienced pilots causing problems that led to the crashes. Not unheard of but not the answer. It wasn't until the NTSB discovered a problem with the airplane that the crashes stopped. The actuator for the tail rudder was freezing, and causing an uncontrollable roll and turn. The Pilots never had a chance to understand what was happening or what to do to fix it, they were too close to the ground. The problem was not individual, it was systemic. A design flaw, an unintended flaw that nobody had ever considered even being possible.

But let's get back to police shootings. Looking at the individual cases means you examine the one, and find that while regrettable, it was allowable by law. When you examine the larger picture, you find that there were an awful lot of those regrettable but allowable incidents. In Georgia, nearly half of the people shot by police were unarmed, or shot in the back. Each case was regrettable, but allowable. Only when you examine the larger picture do you get the idea that we need to seriously reconsider our training and policies. Because half of the people being killed in such circumstances, is just too many.

OVER THE LINE: Police shootings in Georgia

Explore reports and cases from The Atlanta Journal-Constitution’s year-long examination of police shootings in Georgia.

investigations.ajc.com

When we look at the larger picture, we often learn a great deal. During World War II and Korea, and most of the way through Vietnam, Morphine was readily available to treat injured people with. We were doing the best we could, treating the agonizing pain of the wounded soldier. But it was not until someone took a larger look at the issue, that we discovered the truth. In treating the pain first, we were killing our soldiers. Killing them with good intentions. By shooting them up with Morphine, we were in fact sending them into shock, which killed them. Survivable wounds were killing people, because we did not know what was really happening. When we looked at the larger picture, we saw a problem. We discovered the answer, and adjusted the treatment regime, and restricted Morphine to the Medics, and told them that first you had to stabilize the patient, and treat them for shock, and then treat them for pain. Otherwise, pain was the patients problems. I do not blame the Medics and soldiers for their actions. We did not know. We thought we were doing the right thing. We believed we needed to do that to help our buddies. We learned, and now we know that to help our buddies, we may have to ignore their pain for a bit.

The larger picture, statistical trends is used in every other facet of life. Only when we come to Law Enforcement are the types of statistics we are allowed to talk about limited.

Take anything. Take the AV-8 Harrier that the Marines got. A fantastic plane. One of my favorites to be honest. The British told the Marines that the plane was a widowmaker. It would kill the pilot if he was not sufficiently trained and experienced. The Marines took this to heart, and for the first squadron assigned only experienced pilots to the aircraft. There were no accidents that led to the loss of aircraft. The Marines decided the British were overselling the dangers. Newer less experienced pilots were assigned, and immediately the number of accidents increased. Loss of aircraft, and dead pilots, and the truth was right in front of them. They could have written it off as we are in a dangerous business and accidents happen. Instead they looked at the systemic situation, and determined the truth. The pilots needed more experience before transitioning to the AV-8.

Topgun. The Naval Fighter training program. Started when statistics showed that the pilots were not trained sufficiently well in Dogfighting.

Low level flights. We learned using Statistics that our ideals of safety from anti aircraft weapons by flying low and fast was not true. The enemy could and would engage our aircraft. We suffered fewer lost aircraft by flying higher, because it gave the pilot time to react to the incoming fire.

We use statistics at work to maximize worker safety. Statistically workplaces with a heavy emphasis on safety suffer fewer injuries, and lost time accidents. Statistically people who work in industrial areas wearing personal protective gear suffer fewer injuries.

Statistics in this case show clear racism in the traffic stops. Statistics in the case of my State of Georgia show that we need to address the use of force policies and training to reduce the number of people shot by police. We will never be perfect. We can strive to be better. And only by looking at not only the individual incidents, but the systemic situation, can we ever hope to become better. Ignoring one will always keep you in the status quo, which means the mess you are in now.

1. again, you babble too damn much
2. that's 18 per year
3. blacks commit crime at HIGHER rates = they will have more problems with police
--they are more stupid and violent = they will resist arrest
--it says TWICE the rate---so they are killing whites at a HIGHER rate because blacks commit crimes at MORE than twice the rate of whites
3. that's a NEWS organization = bullshit
4. give us individual incidents from credible sources
5. MBrown was unarmed but he ATTACKED the cop = unarmed does not mean not a threat --they even mention Ferguson-but NOT that MBrown attacked the cop = your link is BULLSHIT

 

[harmonica]

First Nonsense. Let me put your statistics into context. Let's say that you are a cop and you are writing tickets to speeders. You have a stretch of road, a down hill stretch of road that you are on every day. Pretty much everyone is speeding. You don't like Red Cars, and you pull over more of them than any other color. In fact, half the cars you pull over are red. Perhaps the color attracts the eye easier, whatever. In a few months, the statistics say that Red Cars are more likely to be speeding than any other color car. So now, you have a Statistical proof that Red Cars are driven dangerously, and you can focus on the Red Cars even more, because statistically it is more likely that they are speeding than other cars. When the truth is that everyone is driving about the same speed, and it is merely your choice that makes the Red Cars the targets.

You have to go to a larger subset of statistics. Let's take Traffic Stops.

The Stanford Open Policing Project

We are collecting, releasing, and analyzing data on millions of traffic stops across the United States.

openpolicing.stanford.edu

Now, what did we learn looking at over 200 million traffic stops? We learned that Blacks were pulled over more often than whites, statistically speaking. So obviously Black Drivers were more likely to be speeding and driving recklessly right? Yet, those same Black Drivers were pulled over less often at night, when the color or identity of the driver was harder to discern. So wait a minute, if Black Drivers were in fact more likely to be speeding, than that would continue through to the darkness wouldn't it? Yet, in the dark, when you could not tell the car was driven by a Black, they were less likely to be pulled over. Odd isn't it? Seeing Red Cars yet?

SO let's go with Searches. Blacks were more likely to have their cars searched, yet they were less likely statistically speaking to have actionable contraband. By that I mean enough drugs to warrant an arrest, or weapons, or other illegal items in the car. So wait a minute. If Whites were more likely statistically speaking, to have that contraband, why were they not searched more often than their Black counterparts? Red cars anyone?

But let's look at the arrest and conviction rates. Blacks being generally poorer than the Whites were often unable to afford quality Legal Council. Back to cars. A $15,000 hatchback is not going to be as good as a $150,000 sedan right? So quality cost money, and quality delivers better results.

What happened when a Black man was able to afford that quality legal representation? OJ Simpson anyone? Even now people are outraged that he got off. Several on this board will probably reply that it was because of his race, but it really wasn't. IT was because his lawyers were the best in the nation, and cost several million dollars to defend him. When the legal representation is that expensive, like the quality car we mentioned above, it usually gets much better results.

Then we have the Police. A survey of Judges, and Lawyers, indicated that they believed that police lied in about one case out of five. In other words, twenty percent of the court cases involving police have a lie in there somewhere. How they got the evidence, how they got something. Now, we know these lies are exposed when you have the high priced lawyers who have the money, time, and resources to check and double check every single assertion by the Police. They have investigators, junior lawyers, and others who go blind practically as they examine every thing the cop asserts. The statement of Mark Furman in the OJ Trial that he had never used the N word to describe a Black, and then the audio tape of him saying the word is a good example. At that point, everything that Mark Furman said was now suspect, and the Jury would doubt his assertions on the facts.

It wasn't that OJ was black, it was that OJ was represented by the finest Criminal Defense Lawyers in the Country. People who were legends before they took the case like F. Lee Baily. No public defenders office would have found that recording. No public Defender would have been able to attack the evidence piece by piece, and create the doubt that existed. Only a very skilled, and thus very expensive lawyer could.

Look at the Innocence Project. In nearly every single exoneration, we find that the Convicted Felon was represented by either a very cheap and thus not very good lawyer, or a Public Defender, who has fifty cases that he can't afford to spend the time, or resources to prove the defendant innocent. In every case, we find Police and Proprietorial Misconduct was rampant.

Now, lets step away from Statistics for a minute. We have shown I think that statistics can be made to show whatever you want, when you just look at the surface. Hence the old saying Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.

Let's talk about the Constitution. Every single citizen is entitled to the same rights as any other citizen. It is the basis of the idea, which has sadly never actually become reality, that no one is above the law. If we are to give the police a pass in their mistreatment of Blacks based upon demonstrably flawed statistics, we would be denying an entire group of people their rights under the Constitution. We would be driving one of the last, if not the last, nail in the coffin of our nation. We should demand that people, citizens, of this nation are treated fairly and equally. We should be voting anyone who makes such an argument out of office. And we should demand that any Judge who allows such nonsense to guide his actions be impeached and disbarred from ever working in the legal field ever again.

So the Statistics are at best questionable. The Actions of the police are certainly questionable, and the justification for those actions, the questionable statistics, is a weak reed to grasp.

Do you see the Red Cars yet? Because the red cars are right in front of you.

exoneration does not mean innocent

When the DNA of the person committing the crime does not match the person convicted, it most certainly does.

hahahhaha
....most of the OJ jury was BLACK!! they voted based on skin color--not the facts...it was one of the most stupid and racist juries ever

Again nonsense. There was the lie Furman was caught in. That again tainted his testimony. And since he discovered most of the evidence, it tainted the evidence. Then there was the gloves “shrinking”.

Kato came off looking like Bill and Ted attended Ridgeway High. And the prosecution experts went into so much detail that the Jury and the people at home got bored and changed the channel. Remember it was broadcast live every day.

Marsha Clark tried to explain to the Jury that the Glove shrank. She should have offered that up before. She tried to explain that yes Furman was caught in a lie, but he totally told the truth about everything else.

And if Race is the deciding Factor in Juries then the Whites who excused the cops who beat Rodney King did so based on Race? Because in my opinion, there again, the Defense Attorney did a fantastic job. The inability of the Prosecution experts to identify when the action went from Justified to excessive was damning for the Prosecution.

..you don't even know how to spell his name --it's Fuhrman....and why bring him up???!!! that means nothing
...there is no problem of police brutality
here---look here and join in:
there is no police brutality problem

 

[bigrebnc1775]

First Nonsense. Let me put your statistics into context. Let's say that you are a cop and you are writing tickets to speeders. You have a stretch of road, a down hill stretch of road that you are on every day. Pretty much everyone is speeding. You don't like Red Cars, and you pull over more of them than any other color. In fact, half the cars you pull over are red. Perhaps the color attracts the eye easier, whatever. In a few months, the statistics say that Red Cars are more likely to be speeding than any other color car. So now, you have a Statistical proof that Red Cars are driven dangerously, and you can focus on the Red Cars even more, because statistically it is more likely that they are speeding than other cars. When the truth is that everyone is driving about the same speed, and it is merely your choice that makes the Red Cars the targets.

You have to go to a larger subset of statistics. Let's take Traffic Stops.

The Stanford Open Policing Project

We are collecting, releasing, and analyzing data on millions of traffic stops across the United States.

openpolicing.stanford.edu

Now, what did we learn looking at over 200 million traffic stops? We learned that Blacks were pulled over more often than whites, statistically speaking. So obviously Black Drivers were more likely to be speeding and driving recklessly right? Yet, those same Black Drivers were pulled over less often at night, when the color or identity of the driver was harder to discern. So wait a minute, if Black Drivers were in fact more likely to be speeding, than that would continue through to the darkness wouldn't it? Yet, in the dark, when you could not tell the car was driven by a Black, they were less likely to be pulled over. Odd isn't it? Seeing Red Cars yet?

SO let's go with Searches. Blacks were more likely to have their cars searched, yet they were less likely statistically speaking to have actionable contraband. By that I mean enough drugs to warrant an arrest, or weapons, or other illegal items in the car. So wait a minute. If Whites were more likely statistically speaking, to have that contraband, why were they not searched more often than their Black counterparts? Red cars anyone?

But let's look at the arrest and conviction rates. Blacks being generally poorer than the Whites were often unable to afford quality Legal Council. Back to cars. A $15,000 hatchback is not going to be as good as a $150,000 sedan right? So quality cost money, and quality delivers better results.

What happened when a Black man was able to afford that quality legal representation? OJ Simpson anyone? Even now people are outraged that he got off. Several on this board will probably reply that it was because of his race, but it really wasn't. IT was because his lawyers were the best in the nation, and cost several million dollars to defend him. When the legal representation is that expensive, like the quality car we mentioned above, it usually gets much better results.

Then we have the Police. A survey of Judges, and Lawyers, indicated that they believed that police lied in about one case out of five. In other words, twenty percent of the court cases involving police have a lie in there somewhere. How they got the evidence, how they got something. Now, we know these lies are exposed when you have the high priced lawyers who have the money, time, and resources to check and double check every single assertion by the Police. They have investigators, junior lawyers, and others who go blind practically as they examine every thing the cop asserts. The statement of Mark Furman in the OJ Trial that he had never used the N word to describe a Black, and then the audio tape of him saying the word is a good example. At that point, everything that Mark Furman said was now suspect, and the Jury would doubt his assertions on the facts.

It wasn't that OJ was black, it was that OJ was represented by the finest Criminal Defense Lawyers in the Country. People who were legends before they took the case like F. Lee Baily. No public defenders office would have found that recording. No public Defender would have been able to attack the evidence piece by piece, and create the doubt that existed. Only a very skilled, and thus very expensive lawyer could.

Look at the Innocence Project. In nearly every single exoneration, we find that the Convicted Felon was represented by either a very cheap and thus not very good lawyer, or a Public Defender, who has fifty cases that he can't afford to spend the time, or resources to prove the defendant innocent. In every case, we find Police and Proprietorial Misconduct was rampant.

Now, lets step away from Statistics for a minute. We have shown I think that statistics can be made to show whatever you want, when you just look at the surface. Hence the old saying Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.

Let's talk about the Constitution. Every single citizen is entitled to the same rights as any other citizen. It is the basis of the idea, which has sadly never actually become reality, that no one is above the law. If we are to give the police a pass in their mistreatment of Blacks based upon demonstrably flawed statistics, we would be denying an entire group of people their rights under the Constitution. We would be driving one of the last, if not the last, nail in the coffin of our nation. We should demand that people, citizens, of this nation are treated fairly and equally. We should be voting anyone who makes such an argument out of office. And we should demand that any Judge who allows such nonsense to guide his actions be impeached and disbarred from ever working in the legal field ever again.

So the Statistics are at best questionable. The Actions of the police are certainly questionable, and the justification for those actions, the questionable statistics, is a weak reed to grasp.

Do you see the Red Cars yet? Because the red cars are right in front of you.

that's your biased opinion comparing apples to chicken

 

[harmonica]

you are wrong and lost
.....police are 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black than an unarmed black killed by a cop

and:

In 2016, the police fatally shot 233 blacks, the vast majority armed and dangerous, according to the Washington Post. The paper categorized only 16 black male victims of police shootings as “unarmed.” That classification masks assaults against officers and violent resistance to arrest.

All that kneeling ignores the real cause of soaring black homicides

The FBI released its official crime tally for 2016 on Monday, and the data flies in the face of the rhetoric that professional athletes rehearsed in revived Black Lives Matter protests over the wee…

nypost.com

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

We’re dealing with stats here.
Logic, math and facts are beyond democrats and their fascistic agenda so don’t expect any reasoned response from a democrat.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

We’re dealing with stats here.
Logic, math and facts are beyond democrats and their fascistic agenda so don’t expect any reasoned response from a democrat.

Joe Biden, at the Iowa State Fair, mystified the crowd when he told them: We choose truth over facts."