FDR & Obama: Two Peas in a Pod?

[gipper]

1. Both blamed their poor economic performances on their predecessors. As President-elect, FDR refused to even meet with Hoover to discuss the country's problems. Sound familiar? As a result, a Constitutional Amendment was passed to move up the inauguration date by three months.

2. Both were reelected by withholding important information from the voters. FDR was seriously ill and died six months after the 1944 election. Obama was seriously negligent and covered up the assassination of our Ambassador just before the 2012 election.

3. Both were foreign policy amateurs who created enormous problems for their successors. FDR was suckered by Stalin, just as Obama has been suckered by Putin/Assad.

Any others?

Funny how Big Ears resembles Stalin's Stooge in so many ways. If he gets us into WWIII and eliminates 22nd Amendment leading to winning four times, we can say the comparison is complete.

It is also most ironic how Bushy and Hoover resemble each other.

One thing all these terrible men have in common, is they are first and foremost statists. That seems to be a common trait of nearly all our presidents.

 

[jwoodie]

it's hard to tell whether right wingnuts are just uneducated or just plain stupid? Or are they the puppets of business? Latter makes a strong case.

Read the history at link below.

1922
The conservative Supreme Court strikes down federal child labor legislation.

1923
President Warren Harding dies in office; his administration was easily one of the most corrupt in American history. Calvin Coolidge, who is squeaky clean by comparison, becomes president. Coolidge is no less committed to laissez-faire and a non-interventionist government. He announces to the American people: "The business of America is business."
Supreme Court nullifies minimum wage for women in District of Columbia.

1924
The Ku Klux Klan reaches the height of its influence in America: by the end of the year it will claim 9 million members. It will decline drastically in 1925, however, after financial and moral scandals rock its leadership.
The stock market begins its spectacular rise. Bears little relation to the rest of the economy.

1925
The top tax rate is lowered to 25 percent - the lowest top rate in the eight decades since World War I.
Supreme Court rules that trade organizations do not violate anti-trust laws as long as some competition survives.

1928
The construction boom is over.
Farmers' share of the national income has dropped from 15 to 9 percent since 1920.
Between May 1928 and September 1929, the average prices of stocks will rise 40 percent. Trading will mushroom from 2-3 million shares per day to over 5 million. The boom is largely artificial.

1929
Herbert Hoover becomes President. Hoover is a staunch individualist but not as committed to laissez-faire ideology as Coolidge.
More than half of all Americans are living below a minimum subsistence level.
Annual per-capita income is $750; for farm people, it is only $273.
Backlog of business inventories grows three times larger than the year before. Public consumption markedly down.
Freight carloads and manufacturing fall.
Automobile sales decline by a third in the nine months before the crash.
Construction down $2 billion since 1926.
Recession begins in August, two months before the stock market crash. During this two month period, production will decline at an annual rate of 20 percent, wholesale prices at 7.5 percent, and personal income at 5 percent.
Stock market crash begins October 24. Investors call October 29 "Black Tuesday." Losses for the month will total $16 billion, an astronomical sum in those days.
Congress passes Agricultural Marketing Act to support farmers until they can get back on their feet."

Read rest here: Timeline of the Great Depression


Where Keynes Went Wrong - Page 2

"Historian Phillips-Fein traces the hidden history of the Reagan revolution to a coterie of business executives, including General Electric official and Reagan mentor Lemuel Boulware, who saw labor unions, government regulation, high taxes and welfare spending as dire threats to their profits and power. From the 1930s onward, the author argues, they provided the money, organization and fervor for a decades-long war against New Deal liberalism—funding campaigns, think tanks, magazines and lobbying groups, and indoctrinating employees in the virtues of unfettered capitalism." Invisible Hands: The Making of the Conservative Movement from the New Deal to Reagan: Kim Phillips-Fein: 9780393059304: Amazon.com: Books


Summary
Timeline of the Great Depression
The Great Depression, to 1935
The Main Causes of the Great Depression
Stiff upper lip.

It's hard to tell whether there is a point to your post or if you simply recite historical minutiae in the hope that someone else will make sense of it. Herbert Hoover had been in office barely six months when the stock market crashed, yet FDR built his Presidential career on blaming him for the Great Depression. Obama is doing the same thing; however, there is no war on the horizon to pull our chestnuts out of the fire this time.

 

[gipper]

it's hard to tell whether right wingnuts are just uneducated or just plain stupid? Or are they the puppets of business? Latter makes a strong case.

Read the history at link below.

1922
The conservative Supreme Court strikes down federal child labor legislation.

1923
President Warren Harding dies in office; his administration was easily one of the most corrupt in American history. Calvin Coolidge, who is squeaky clean by comparison, becomes president. Coolidge is no less committed to laissez-faire and a non-interventionist government. He announces to the American people: "The business of America is business."
Supreme Court nullifies minimum wage for women in District of Columbia.

1924
The Ku Klux Klan reaches the height of its influence in America: by the end of the year it will claim 9 million members. It will decline drastically in 1925, however, after financial and moral scandals rock its leadership.
The stock market begins its spectacular rise. Bears little relation to the rest of the economy.

1925
The top tax rate is lowered to 25 percent - the lowest top rate in the eight decades since World War I.
Supreme Court rules that trade organizations do not violate anti-trust laws as long as some competition survives.

1928
The construction boom is over.
Farmers' share of the national income has dropped from 15 to 9 percent since 1920.
Between May 1928 and September 1929, the average prices of stocks will rise 40 percent. Trading will mushroom from 2-3 million shares per day to over 5 million. The boom is largely artificial.

1929
Herbert Hoover becomes President. Hoover is a staunch individualist but not as committed to laissez-faire ideology as Coolidge.
More than half of all Americans are living below a minimum subsistence level.
Annual per-capita income is $750; for farm people, it is only $273.
Backlog of business inventories grows three times larger than the year before. Public consumption markedly down.
Freight carloads and manufacturing fall.
Automobile sales decline by a third in the nine months before the crash.
Construction down $2 billion since 1926.
Recession begins in August, two months before the stock market crash. During this two month period, production will decline at an annual rate of 20 percent, wholesale prices at 7.5 percent, and personal income at 5 percent.
Stock market crash begins October 24. Investors call October 29 "Black Tuesday." Losses for the month will total $16 billion, an astronomical sum in those days.
Congress passes Agricultural Marketing Act to support farmers until they can get back on their feet."

Read rest here: Timeline of the Great Depression


Where Keynes Went Wrong - Page 2

"Historian Phillips-Fein traces the hidden history of the Reagan revolution to a coterie of business executives, including General Electric official and Reagan mentor Lemuel Boulware, who saw labor unions, government regulation, high taxes and welfare spending as dire threats to their profits and power. From the 1930s onward, the author argues, they provided the money, organization and fervor for a decades-long war against New Deal liberalism—funding campaigns, think tanks, magazines and lobbying groups, and indoctrinating employees in the virtues of unfettered capitalism." Invisible Hands: The Making of the Conservative Movement from the New Deal to Reagan: Kim Phillips-Fein: 9780393059304: Amazon.com: Books


Summary
Timeline of the Great Depression
The Great Depression, to 1935
The Main Causes of the Great Depression
Stiff upper lip.

It's hard to tell whether there is a point to your post or if you simply recite historical minutiae in the hope that someone else will make sense of it. Herbert Hoover had been in office barely six months when the stock market crashed, yet FDR built his Presidential career on blaming him for the Great Depression. Obama is doing the same thing; however, there is no war on the horizon to pull our chestnuts out of the fire this time.

Not so sure about the 'no war' thing. I do not discount BO's ability to get us into another war...though this time...hopefully, the America people are not so dumb as to follow him down that long worn out road that many past presidents have taken us.

 

[Politico]

Hell no. Obammy is way worse.

 

[Friends]

President Obama underestimated the severity of the unemployment situation. He seems to have thought that because he was a Democrat unemployment would decline the way it did after the inauguration of Bill Clinton. Obama's big mistake was to force through a health care plan most Americans neither understand nor like before establishing his credibility on economic issues by reducing unemployment.

When Obama was inaugurated in January 2009 the unemployment rate was 7.8 percent. During the Congressional election of 2010 this had grown to 9.8 percent. This enabled the GOP to gain seats in both houses of Congress, and to impede Obama's efforts to reduce unemployment.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/UNRATE.txt

Before moving on signature reforms of the New Deal like Social Security Franklin Roosevelt did pursue policies that reduced unemployment. Basically, he raised taxes on the rich, and expanded government spending and employment. Government employment had a multiplier effect. Unemployed people who got government jobs bought more, so employers in the private sector hired more people to produce and sell what government employees consumed. This reduced unemployment even more.

From 1932 to 1934 unemployment declined from 23.6 percent to 21.7 percent. This enabled the Democrats to increase their majorities in both houses of Congress. This enabled Roosevelt to do more to reduce unemployment. By 1936 it had declined to 16.9 percent.

United States Unemployment Rate 1920?2012 | Infoplease.com

Consequently, FDR was reelected by a bigger landslide than he was initially elected in 1932.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

I assume you rate American presidents according to how many combat deaths were accrued during their terms. As for Obama, I would rate him the same as Carter for competence and Clinton for integrity. Nice combination.

Actually the historians are better at rating presidents than I am so I generally defer to them, particularly the historians noted for their expertise in presidents.
Perhaps your question about combat deaths refers to a larger question, do the presidents make the times or do the times make the president? Would FDR be rated as our greatest president if there had been no Great Depression or WWII during his terms? Still some wars have hurt presidents, perhaps Madison, Polk, Bush Johnson come to mind.

Oh brother...here you go again with your love of statists historians.

Many NON-STATIST historians have been very critical of FDR and based their criticisms on facts. Why have you chosen to ignore them? Do facts mean little to you?

 

[regent]

Actually the historians are better at rating presidents than I am so I generally defer to them, particularly the historians noted for their expertise in presidents.
Perhaps your question about combat deaths refers to a larger question, do the presidents make the times or do the times make the president? Would FDR be rated as our greatest president if there had been no Great Depression or WWII during his terms? Still some wars have hurt presidents, perhaps Madison, Polk, Bush Johnson come to mind.

Oh brother...here you go again with your love of statists historians.

Many NON-STATIST historians have been very critical of FDR and based their criticisms on facts. Why have you chosen to ignore them? Do facts mean little to you?

OK so I'll ask for facts, what was the name of poll these non-statist historians indicated they were very critical of FDR? And what does critical mean, since most historians find critical aspects of all the presidents including FDR.

In exchange I'll give you a fact, the Murray-Blessing poll of historians taken in 1982 asked conservative historians to name the three greatest presidents and the conservatives named Lincoln, Washington and FDR as the three greatest in that order.

 

[whitehall]

The most important thing to consider about the comparison between democrat administrations is the concept of the fawning drooling and sometimes criminal compliance of the media. The media knew about Nazi atrocities but they supported FDR and ignored them. The media could have shut down the Obama administration but they prefer to circle the wagons around every democrat administration.

 

[regent]

The most important thing to consider about the comparison between democrat administrations is the concept of the fawning drooling and sometimes criminal compliance of the media. The media knew about Nazi atrocities but they supported FDR and ignored them. The media could have shut down the Obama administration but they prefer to circle the wagons around every democrat administration.

I take it the historians are not to blame anymore for FDR's place in history but now the media is to blame? The two major media outlets during FDR's period were newspapers and radio. There were a number of newspapers against FDR and a couple of radio Rush Limbaughs but they were no match for FDR. Perhaps the radio media liked FDR because he held news conferences on a regular basis and took questions directly from the reporters instead of requiring them to be written down first. But the perhaps the real reason for FDR's place in history were the people's votes and FDR's programs, programs we still use even after all these years only we have enlarged them.
What is your point about the Nazi atrocities?

 

[regent]

it's hard to tell whether right wingnuts are just uneducated or just plain stupid? Or are they the puppets of business? Latter makes a strong case.

Read the history at link below.

1922
The conservative Supreme Court strikes down federal child labor legislation.

1923
President Warren Harding dies in office; his administration was easily one of the most corrupt in American history. Calvin Coolidge, who is squeaky clean by comparison, becomes president. Coolidge is no less committed to laissez-faire and a non-interventionist government. He announces to the American people: "The business of America is business."
Supreme Court nullifies minimum wage for women in District of Columbia.

1924
The Ku Klux Klan reaches the height of its influence in America: by the end of the year it will claim 9 million members. It will decline drastically in 1925, however, after financial and moral scandals rock its leadership.
The stock market begins its spectacular rise. Bears little relation to the rest of the economy.

1925
The top tax rate is lowered to 25 percent - the lowest top rate in the eight decades since World War I.
Supreme Court rules that trade organizations do not violate anti-trust laws as long as some competition survives.

1928
The construction boom is over.
Farmers' share of the national income has dropped from 15 to 9 percent since 1920.
Between May 1928 and September 1929, the average prices of stocks will rise 40 percent. Trading will mushroom from 2-3 million shares per day to over 5 million. The boom is largely artificial.

1929
Herbert Hoover becomes President. Hoover is a staunch individualist but not as committed to laissez-faire ideology as Coolidge.
More than half of all Americans are living below a minimum subsistence level.
Annual per-capita income is $750; for farm people, it is only $273.
Backlog of business inventories grows three times larger than the year before. Public consumption markedly down.
Freight carloads and manufacturing fall.
Automobile sales decline by a third in the nine months before the crash.
Construction down $2 billion since 1926.
Recession begins in August, two months before the stock market crash. During this two month period, production will decline at an annual rate of 20 percent, wholesale prices at 7.5 percent, and personal income at 5 percent.
Stock market crash begins October 24. Investors call October 29 "Black Tuesday." Losses for the month will total $16 billion, an astronomical sum in those days.
Congress passes Agricultural Marketing Act to support farmers until they can get back on their feet."

Read rest here: Timeline of the Great Depression


Where Keynes Went Wrong - Page 2

"Historian Phillips-Fein traces the hidden history of the Reagan revolution to a coterie of business executives, including General Electric official and Reagan mentor Lemuel Boulware, who saw labor unions, government regulation, high taxes and welfare spending as dire threats to their profits and power. From the 1930s onward, the author argues, they provided the money, organization and fervor for a decades-long war against New Deal liberalism—funding campaigns, think tanks, magazines and lobbying groups, and indoctrinating employees in the virtues of unfettered capitalism." Invisible Hands: The Making of the Conservative Movement from the New Deal to Reagan: Kim Phillips-Fein: 9780393059304: Amazon.com: Books


Summary
Timeline of the Great Depression
The Great Depression, to 1935
The Main Causes of the Great Depression
Stiff upper lip.

It's hard to tell whether there is a point to your post or if you simply recite historical minutiae in the hope that someone else will make sense of it. Herbert Hoover had been in office barely six months when the stock market crashed, yet FDR built his Presidential career on blaming him for the Great Depression. Obama is doing the same thing; however, there is no war on the horizon to pull our chestnuts out of the fire this time.

It was Hoover's handling of the Great Depression that was questionable. FDR felt some of Hoover's policies increased the depression, i.e. Smoot-Hawley, and Hoover offered to help business, RFC, but not the people and not with jobs. So why did the stock market crash, and could it have been prevented? Why did the banks close and could it have been prevented? FDR's presidential career is based on what he did, not on Hoover; Hoover made his own reputation.

 

[gipper]

Oh brother...here you go again with your love of statists historians.

Many NON-STATIST historians have been very critical of FDR and based their criticisms on facts. Why have you chosen to ignore them? Do facts mean little to you?

OK so I'll ask for facts, what was the name of poll these non-statist historians indicated they were very critical of FDR? And what does critical mean, since most historians find critical aspects of all the presidents including FDR.

In exchange I'll give you a fact, the Murray-Blessing poll of historians taken in 1982 asked conservative historians to name the three greatest presidents and the conservatives named Lincoln, Washington and FDR as the three greatest in that order.

You need a poll to confirm many nonstatist historians have proven FDR was a horrible POTUS....really? I fear there is no hope for you.

And to think conservative historians are the same as non-statist historians, is to not think.

 

[regent]

OK so I'll ask for facts, what was the name of poll these non-statist historians indicated they were very critical of FDR? And what does critical mean, since most historians find critical aspects of all the presidents including FDR.

In exchange I'll give you a fact, the Murray-Blessing poll of historians taken in 1982 asked conservative historians to name the three greatest presidents and the conservatives named Lincoln, Washington and FDR as the three greatest in that order.

You need a poll to confirm many nonstatist historians have proven FDR was a horrible POTUS....really? I fear there is no hope for you.

And to think conservative historians are the same as non-statist historians, is to not think.

So do the nonstatist historians have their own organization, and can you name that organization? Can you name three of the top nonstatist historians?
Can you name the leading nonstatist historian that has a book regarding FDR?

 

[gipper]

OK so I'll ask for facts, what was the name of poll these non-statist historians indicated they were very critical of FDR? And what does critical mean, since most historians find critical aspects of all the presidents including FDR.

In exchange I'll give you a fact, the Murray-Blessing poll of historians taken in 1982 asked conservative historians to name the three greatest presidents and the conservatives named Lincoln, Washington and FDR as the three greatest in that order.

You need a poll to confirm many nonstatist historians have proven FDR was a horrible POTUS....really? I fear there is no hope for you.

And to think conservative historians are the same as non-statist historians, is to not think.

So do the nonstatist historians have their own organization, and can you name that organization? Can you name three of the top nonstatist historians?
Can you name the leading nonstatist historian that has a book regarding FDR?

Organization...what? What ORGANIZATION do any historians belong to and if there are any, what iin the world does that have anything to do with the history of FDR?

You might check out Murray Rothbard, Ludwig Von Mises, and Ralph Raico. They are but three of many. See Thomas Dilorenzo, James Powell, Paul Kengor, and Robert Higgs too. There are too many to name, but you don't know that. Why?

You have been shown many historians who have shown FDR to be a fool and tyrannt in other threads, yet you persist. Why?

You might read these recent books from two other historians...[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Day-Deceit-Truth-Harbor-ebook/dp/B000FBJHTO/ref=sr_sp-atf_title_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381577496&sr=8-1&keywords=fdr+pearl+harbor]Amazon.com: Day of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor eBook: Robert Stinnett: Kindle Store[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Stalins-Secret-Agents-Subversion-ebook/dp/B0043RSJUO/ref=sr_sp-atf_title_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381577351&sr=8-1&keywords=fdr+stanton]Amazon.com: Stalin's Secret Agents: The Subversion of Roosevelt's Government eBook: M. Stanton Evans, Herbert Romerstein: Kindle Store[/ame]

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So are you suggesting that Obama will be rated by historians as one of the two greatest American presidents? Obama may be good but I doubt if historians will rate equal to FDR, maybe number two, but who knows?

Considering most historians are Progressives who believe FDR 20% Unemployment for 7 years was "Great" then yeah, Obama's downgrade and record unemployment will rate him great too

 

[regent]

You need a poll to confirm many nonstatist historians have proven FDR was a horrible POTUS....really? I fear there is no hope for you.

And to think conservative historians are the same as non-statist historians, is to not think.

So do the nonstatist historians have their own organization, and can you name that organization? Can you name three of the top nonstatist historians?
Can you name the leading nonstatist historian that has a book regarding FDR?

Organization...what? What ORGANIZATION do any historians belong to and if there are any, what iin the world does that have anything to do with the history of FDR?

You might check out Murray Rothbard, Ludwig Von Mises, and Ralph Raico. They are but three of many. See Thomas Dilorenzo, James Powell, Paul Kengor, and Robert Higgs too. There are too many to name, but you don't know that. Why?

You have been shown many historians who have shown FDR to be a fool and tyrannt in other threads, yet you persist. Why?

You might read these recent books from two other historians...[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Day-Deceit-Truth-Harbor-ebook/dp/B000FBJHTO/ref=sr_sp-atf_title_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381577496&sr=8-1&keywords=fdr+pearl+harbor]Amazon.com: Day of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor eBook: Robert Stinnett: Kindle Store[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Stalins-Secret-Agents-Subversion-ebook/dp/B0043RSJUO/ref=sr_sp-atf_title_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381577351&sr=8-1&keywords=fdr+stanton]Amazon.com: Stalin's Secret Agents: The Subversion of Roosevelt's Government eBook: M. Stanton Evans, Herbert Romerstein: Kindle Store[/ame]

So you debunk the assertion that all historians are communists and socialists, the right does indeed have historians. There are historical associations, and in the university-field historians have reputations and track records.
One of the methods of acquiring reputations is by publishing, and some historians write histories to not only enhance their reputations but to sell books, and books that go against the grain might sell best. The books that bend the truth, and there are many, are usually questioned by reputable historians. Thanks for the names.

 

[Sallow]

OK so I'll ask for facts, what was the name of poll these non-statist historians indicated they were very critical of FDR? And what does critical mean, since most historians find critical aspects of all the presidents including FDR.

In exchange I'll give you a fact, the Murray-Blessing poll of historians taken in 1982 asked conservative historians to name the three greatest presidents and the conservatives named Lincoln, Washington and FDR as the three greatest in that order.

You need a poll to confirm many nonstatist historians have proven FDR was a horrible POTUS....really? I fear there is no hope for you.

And to think conservative historians are the same as non-statist historians, is to not think.

How many "non-statists" actually formed a country?

Here's a thought. How about you "non-statists" put your theories to the test and actually leave this one.

Take the pepsi challenge!

 

[Sallow]

So are you suggesting that Obama will be rated by historians as one of the two greatest American presidents? Obama may be good but I doubt if historians will rate equal to FDR, maybe number two, but who knows?

Considering most historians are Progressives who believe FDR 20% Unemployment for 7 years was "Great" then yeah, Obama's downgrade and record unemployment will rate him great too

And we have good ol' Calvin Coolidge and Hebert Hoover to thank for that.

Because creating a small class of obscenely wealthy folks always has good outcomes..no?

 

[Sallow]

Only a simpleton would believe most, if not all, our problems today stem from the actions of Republican presidents. Presidents of both parties are responsible.

The warfare/welfare imperialist government we have long endured is responsible and it is run by statists, with a strong progressive streak.

That's kinda true.

Most problems in this country were caused by staunchly conservative presidents.

We had some fine liberal republican presidents like Abe Lincoln and Ike Eisenhower.

 

[gipper]

Only a simpleton would believe most, if not all, our problems today stem from the actions of Republican presidents. Presidents of both parties are responsible.

The warfare/welfare imperialist government we have long endured is responsible and it is run by statists, with a strong progressive streak.

That's kinda true.

Most problems in this country were caused by staunchly conservative presidents.

We had some fine liberal republican presidents like Abe Lincoln and Ike Eisenhower.

That is terribly misguided. It would appear you believe R presidents have governed by implementing conservative policies. And yet, in the last 100 years only one president did so. Calvin Coolidge. All the others were progressives to some extent.

The difference between the Rs and Ds is very slight. One wants socialism today...the other tomorrow.

I would add that most of the damage to our nation was implemented by radical progressives like Wilson, FDR, and Obama. To a lesser extent, fools like the Bushys, Lincoln, and Hoover did considerable damage and they were also progressives.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So are you suggesting that Obama will be rated by historians as one of the two greatest American presidents? Obama may be good but I doubt if historians will rate equal to FDR, maybe number two, but who knows?

Considering most historians are Progressives who believe FDR 20% Unemployment for 7 years was "Great" then yeah, Obama's downgrade and record unemployment will rate him great too

And we have good ol' Calvin Coolidge and Hebert Hoover to thank for that.

Because creating a small class of obscenely wealthy folks always has good outcomes..no?

How do you confuse Coolidge with "Wonder Boy" Hoover?

They were totally different. FDR emulated Hoovers policies and turned a recession into the FDR Depression. Coolidge and Harding turned a worse recession around in 18 minths