Fedgov vs Apple : In re Iphone "backdoor"

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

"today Apple is going to reinvent the phone" to accommodate paranoia and terrorists..yay!

Your deflection and hyperbole is evidence that he is making valid points you are incapable of refuting.

 

[g5000]

It's funny how a socialist and an anti-Muslim bigot are singing from the same privacy violation sheet music. Just goes to show totalitarians live at both ends of the political spectrum.

 

[bendog]

Not if Valerie's post in 108 is valid. Corporations are required to turn over information about individuals all the time. The question is whether Apple complying would allow the gummit to, illegally, access other phones without a court or Apple knowing.

This isn't about turning over information. Apple is not in possession of any information. Apple is being ordered to obtain information that the government wants. For all intents and purposes, the government is trying to force Apple to become it's agent, to create software which does not exist (may not even be possible to create), and to then use that software to conduct a surveillance operation.

If the FBI wants to get to the data, let them have their own techs hack into the device. The government does not have an inherent entitlement to get into any device it wants because it might have information they want.

Apple would be turning over information IF it handed over an unlocked phone to the FBI, and IF the FBI could use that phone to copy whatever Apple did to unlock it so as to enable the FBI to unlock other phones without Apple's knowledge AND a court order.

Unless that is the situation, Apple is down to arguing 1) if we wrote this code, one of our employees could disclose it without our approval and that would do econ damage to us OR 2) if we wrote this code, buyers would be less likely to buy our phones because it's possible the gummt could get a search warrant if it was likely we committed a crime. 1 might be a real concern, but it would apply equally to all other phone makers. 2 doesn't sway me.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

make your case DTMB

g5000 has already done so quite well. There is nothing I need to add. If you prefer to be a subject as opposed to a citizen then by all means, go forth.

 

[g5000]

Not if Valerie's post in 108 is valid. Corporations are required to turn over information about individuals all the time. The question is whether Apple complying would allow the gummit to, illegally, access other phones without a court or Apple knowing.

This isn't about turning over information. Apple is not in possession of any information. Apple is being ordered to obtain information that the government wants. For all intents and purposes, the government is trying to force Apple to become it's agent, to create software which does not exist (may not even be possible to create), and to then use that software to conduct a surveillance operation.

If the FBI wants to get to the data, let them have their own techs hack into the device. The government does not have an inherent entitlement to get into any device it wants because it might have information they want.

Apple would be turning over information IF it handed over an unlocked phone to the FBI, and IF the FBI could use that phone to copy whatever Apple did to unlock it so as to enable the FBI to unlock other phones without Apple's knowledge AND a court order.

Unless that is the situation, Apple is down to arguing 1) if we wrote this code, one of our employees could disclose it without our approval and that would do econ damage to us OR 2) if we wrote this code, buyers would be less likely to buy our phones because it's possible the gummt could get a search warrant if it was likely we committed a crime. 1 might be a real concern, but it would apply equally to all other phone makers. 2 doesn't sway me.

Fallacy of the excluded middle.

A third reason is that buyers would be less likely to buy Apple phones because we value our privacy regardless of whether or not we commit a crime.

A fourth reason is the government is trying to compel a private entity to create a privacy violation tool for them. Would you like being involuntarily enlisted as a burglar? Is that legal?

 

[MisterBeale]

btw the nsa surveillance everyone was so upset about in retrospect with snowden, was already well known.

how did all that scary invasion of privacy work out for the boston bombers under that system?

The Boston Bombers are government patsies.

 

[MisterBeale]

True.


The constitution of the gargantuan bankrupt welfare/warfare police state does not recognize Apple's right to resist.


.

so where does the corporate RIGHT to resist government warrant exist?

Under the OLD Constitution (1787-1935) the 4th and 5th Amendments.


Under FDR's Fascist Constitution of 1935 whatever the government wants whenever it wants it they get. Their powers are unlimited and unreviewable”

the scotus decision regarding nsa surveillance, which preceded snowden btw, the scotus decision noted that no one can claim to be harmed by a policy based solely on paranoia...

so how is anyone harmed by the government having the key that apple holds?

they actually aren't.. it's just the same 'slippery slope' paranoia of possibilities.

should we trust corporations more than our own government, to protect our privacy?

Ah, well Snowden was publicizing warrantless spying on people with no know ideology or suspicion. In the Apple case, the only "spying" is of a known, and dead, terrorist's phone. I'd ask what right to privacy a person could have after they are killed committing mass murder, and the phone likely has some information of their intent and possibly of accomplices?

But don't expect rationality, let alone civility, from the count of muncus. LOL

You haven't read the whole letter and don't understand the issue at stake then apparently.

Customer Letter - Apple

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The Boston Bombers are government patsies.

 

[HenryBHough]

Though it may prove unconstitutional to even try to force Apple to hand over.....surely liberals must agree that it is perfectly legitimate for government to require that you send copies of ALL email traffic to The Justice Department.

Of course honest liberals already do that......oh dear....another damned oxymoron there.....

 

[rcfieldz]

Is Apple assisting terrorists? Times are a changing. If you got something to hide then hide and don;t use a phone. Isn't that the way?

 

[Valerie]

"The Supreme Court doesn't know diddly about the nature and extent of the threat," Scalia said. Later on, he added, "It's truly stupid that my court is going to be the last word on it."


Still, he hinted he would rule that NSA surveillance does not violate the Constitution if and when the issue comes before the Supreme Court. Although one judge has ruled the spying violates the Fourth Amendment, Scalia may disagree based on his strict interpretation of the Constitution.


The text of the Fourth Amendment bars unwarranted searches of "persons, houses, papers, and effects." But, as Scalia told the audience, "conversations are quite different" from all four of those things.

Scalia Comes To Brooklyn, Drops Huge Hint About NSA Surveillance And The Supreme Court

 

[Valerie]

"today Apple is going to reinvent the phone" to accommodate paranoia and terrorists..yay!

Your deflection and hyperbole is evidence that he is making valid points you are incapable of refuting.

i was merely trying to provoke thought and challenge the EASY answer, which clearly is par for your course.

 

[Valerie]

make your case DTMB

g5000 has already done so quite well. There is nothing I need to add. If you prefer to be a subject as opposed to a citizen then by all means, go forth.

you mean like we're subject to your authority on how to handle scumbags of the earth on the internets...?

 

[Valerie]

You got burned, and its killing you.

calm down. it's an exchange of ideas.. a discussion..

not every fucking thread has to be some personal pissing contest or victory conquest.

 

[Valerie]

After Britain declared war on Germany on 3 September 1939, British codebreaking operations were moved from London to Bletchley Park. This country house was near the then small railway town of Bletchley, half-way between Oxford and Cambridge.

Everything to do with intelligence was dominated by the technicalities of the Enigma cipher machine, the key to German communications.


Alan Turing's wartime life was spent mainly in the Huts erected in the grounds of Bletchley Park, where the technical work of codebreaking was done.

This is where, in March 1940, the machine that defeated the Enigma was first installed.

Most German communications were enciphered on the Enigma cipher machine. It was based on rotors whose movement produced ever-changing alphabetic substitutions.

In its military use, the basic machine was greatly enhanced by a plugboard, visible on the front of the machine.

The ciphers it produced were supposed to be unbreakable even by someone in possession of the machine. Ideas of great logical ingenuity were needed to defeat it.

Alan Turing Scrapbook - The Enigma War

 

[Valerie]

Snowden paints a vivid picture of a US intelligence community that is too powerful, too ruthless, too dominant over the rest of the world when it comes to cyber espionage.

First of all, it’s a good thing that America has the most sophisticated cyber arsenal of any other country on the planet. We aren’t worried about having the best aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines and fighter jets in the world. They keep us safe. The same is true for cyber weapons.


EXPERT Here Are 4 Things Edward Snowden Gets Wildly Wrong About The NSA - Business Insider

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

You got burned, and its killing you.

calm down. it's an exchange of ideas.. a discussion..

It can be frustrating when some people are so willing to be a serf on the manor

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

make your case DTMB

g5000 has already done so quite well. There is nothing I need to add. If you prefer to be a subject as opposed to a citizen then by all means, go forth.

you mean like we're subject to your authority on how to handle scumbags of the earth on the internets...?

No, I don't mean like that.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

"today Apple is going to reinvent the phone" to accommodate paranoia and terrorists..yay!

Your deflection and hyperbole is evidence that he is making valid points you are incapable of refuting.

i was merely trying to provoke thought and challenge the EASY answer, which clearly is par for your course.

With a very thoughtless response? Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure..........

 

[Rustic]

Progressive career politicians and their federal government are to blame... They have zero credibility on the issue

Wow! You conservatives can't even take credit for your own bullshit .

This is patriot act type bullshit in action . And we know the conservatives are the driving force .

The last I looked libertarians don't have that high of regard toward the patriot act...
Lol