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Doesn't matter to me here. Part of switching to another water source and service required a NEW TREATMENT PLANT. Even had the waterline been completed from Lake Huron already, if they had pumped out lower ph water anyway the problem would be the same.Problem was the mother truckers in Detroit screwed over Flint leaving them no option but to find an interim supplier.
That was Flint River. The issue is not the switch. The issue is that no one was properly treating the water.
The switch is significant Since the decision was made without input from the City council or the mayor. The responsibility for any issues coming out of that rested with the city manager and the Governor who sent him to Flint.
That includes the lead and anything else associated with the action..
Snyder said that Detroit, after being informed of the Flint council vote, sent a "letter of termination" of water service. Detroit sent a letter giving Flint one year on its existing contract, but that didn't mean Flint couldn't get water from Detroit after that date. In fact, there was a flurry of negotiations between Detroit and Flint to sign a new contract that would carry Flint through until it could connect to the under-construction pipeline. That new contract was going to cost Flint more money.
This distinction is important to note because merely stating that Flint received a "letter of termination" makes it sound as if a thirsty Flint had no choice but to stick a straw in the Flint River. Flint could have elected to sign a new contract with the the Detroit water system (in fact, Flint reconnected to Detroit water after the situation in the city became a full-fledged, hair-on-fire crisis). Flint disconnected from Detroit because it was cheaper to take water from the Flint River until the new pipeline was completed. Here's a letter from then-emergency manager Darnell Earley saying Flint was choosing to use Flint water instead of Detroit water.
Which brings us to the state's timeline statement: "June 2013: City of Flint decides to use the Flint River as a water source."
Flint officials didn't make that decision while under state emergency management. State-appointed emergency manager Ed Kurtz made that decision, which would have had to be approved by the state. Here's the document from June 2013 signed by Kurtz authorizing an engineering contract to figure out how to draw water from the river.
The call: Foul
It may seem like this is deep in the weeds, but this is why it's important: This is a major health crisis for the state, and it's a crisis that is man-made. There's no doubt that a series of actions all played a role in the elevated lead levels in the bloodstreams of some Flint children. When the governor's own timeline says the "City of Flint decides to use the Flint River," it can't be dismissed as shorthand for the truth. The wording conflates an earlier city vote to transition from Detroit to the KWA with that of a Snyder-appointed emergency manager to use the Flint River as an interim source of water. Truth Squad calls a foul.
Who determined the final Standards of transmitted water? To me...........that is the CORE OF THE PROBLEM...........Had they raised the ph then using the Flint River wouldn't have been a problem anyway.
When did the relevations come out that the water was corrosive and who was told? Who had that information and what did they do with it? Was it a matter of money that Flint River continued to be used for drinking water? Who made that decision? WHo had the responsibility to give Flint a proper water supply and did not?
I imagine there are going to be lawsuits.
Looks like it can be a Federal lawsuit for the Health Dept. Let's see if that goes anywhere. Thank you, Eagle.When did the relevations come out that the water was corrosive and who was told? Who had that information and what did they do with it? Was it a matter of money that Flint River continued to be used for drinking water? Who made that decision? WHo had the responsibility to give Flint a proper water supply and did not?
I imagine there are going to be lawsuits.
Lawsuits already. In the beginning everyone and their mother was trying to make the decision to use Flint River was over finances but it wasn't. Flint Council got screwed by Detroit. KWA wasn't finished and Detroit Water and Sewage cut them off.
The city needed water. Here's where no one is talking. And why I am so interested in Eagle's posts concerning the water treatment. And who screwed up there.
I mean seriously D or R politician can't be expected to be touring the water plant and taking their own samples to be tested. I know I don't expect my Premier to be testing my water supply. You trust your city employees to be properly treating the water.
And you certainly expect your Department of Health not to lie about lead levels poisoning the good people of Flint. Let alone fudging data.
What a dog's breakfast!
Doesn't matter to me here. Part of switching to another water source and service required a NEW TREATMENT PLANT. Even had the waterline been completed from Lake Huron already, if they had pumped out lower ph water anyway the problem would be the same.Problem was the mother truckers in Detroit screwed over Flint leaving them no option but to find an interim supplier.
That was Flint River. The issue is not the switch. The issue is that no one was properly treating the water.
The switch is significant Since the decision was made without input from the City council or the mayor. The responsibility for any issues coming out of that rested with the city manager and the Governor who sent him to Flint.
That includes the lead and anything else associated with the action..
Snyder said that Detroit, after being informed of the Flint council vote, sent a "letter of termination" of water service. Detroit sent a letter giving Flint one year on its existing contract, but that didn't mean Flint couldn't get water from Detroit after that date. In fact, there was a flurry of negotiations between Detroit and Flint to sign a new contract that would carry Flint through until it could connect to the under-construction pipeline. That new contract was going to cost Flint more money.
This distinction is important to note because merely stating that Flint received a "letter of termination" makes it sound as if a thirsty Flint had no choice but to stick a straw in the Flint River. Flint could have elected to sign a new contract with the the Detroit water system (in fact, Flint reconnected to Detroit water after the situation in the city became a full-fledged, hair-on-fire crisis). Flint disconnected from Detroit because it was cheaper to take water from the Flint River until the new pipeline was completed. Here's a letter from then-emergency manager Darnell Earley saying Flint was choosing to use Flint water instead of Detroit water.
Which brings us to the state's timeline statement: "June 2013: City of Flint decides to use the Flint River as a water source."
Flint officials didn't make that decision while under state emergency management. State-appointed emergency manager Ed Kurtz made that decision, which would have had to be approved by the state. Here's the document from June 2013 signed by Kurtz authorizing an engineering contract to figure out how to draw water from the river.
The call: Foul
It may seem like this is deep in the weeds, but this is why it's important: This is a major health crisis for the state, and it's a crisis that is man-made. There's no doubt that a series of actions all played a role in the elevated lead levels in the bloodstreams of some Flint children. When the governor's own timeline says the "City of Flint decides to use the Flint River," it can't be dismissed as shorthand for the truth. The wording conflates an earlier city vote to transition from Detroit to the KWA with that of a Snyder-appointed emergency manager to use the Flint River as an interim source of water. Truth Squad calls a foul.
Who determined the final Standards of transmitted water? To me...........that is the CORE OF THE PROBLEM...........Had they raised the ph then using the Flint River wouldn't have been a problem anyway.
As I said above, the BUCK stops with the State. The Governor appointed a surrogagte to run the town and that surrogate made the decision to switch the water supply. Any issues with that decision cannot be laid on the doorstep of the city or the mayor who had no input on that decision.
Really, you're right. I commend you on your knowledge about this tragic situation. I learned a lot tonight.Doesn't matter to me here. Part of switching to another water source and service required a NEW TREATMENT PLANT. Even had the waterline been completed from Lake Huron already, if they had pumped out lower ph water anyway the problem would be the same.Problem was the mother truckers in Detroit screwed over Flint leaving them no option but to find an interim supplier.
That was Flint River. The issue is not the switch. The issue is that no one was properly treating the water.
The switch is significant Since the decision was made without input from the City council or the mayor. The responsibility for any issues coming out of that rested with the city manager and the Governor who sent him to Flint.
That includes the lead and anything else associated with the action..
Snyder said that Detroit, after being informed of the Flint council vote, sent a "letter of termination" of water service. Detroit sent a letter giving Flint one year on its existing contract, but that didn't mean Flint couldn't get water from Detroit after that date. In fact, there was a flurry of negotiations between Detroit and Flint to sign a new contract that would carry Flint through until it could connect to the under-construction pipeline. That new contract was going to cost Flint more money.
This distinction is important to note because merely stating that Flint received a "letter of termination" makes it sound as if a thirsty Flint had no choice but to stick a straw in the Flint River. Flint could have elected to sign a new contract with the the Detroit water system (in fact, Flint reconnected to Detroit water after the situation in the city became a full-fledged, hair-on-fire crisis). Flint disconnected from Detroit because it was cheaper to take water from the Flint River until the new pipeline was completed. Here's a letter from then-emergency manager Darnell Earley saying Flint was choosing to use Flint water instead of Detroit water.
Which brings us to the state's timeline statement: "June 2013: City of Flint decides to use the Flint River as a water source."
Flint officials didn't make that decision while under state emergency management. State-appointed emergency manager Ed Kurtz made that decision, which would have had to be approved by the state. Here's the document from June 2013 signed by Kurtz authorizing an engineering contract to figure out how to draw water from the river.
The call: Foul
It may seem like this is deep in the weeds, but this is why it's important: This is a major health crisis for the state, and it's a crisis that is man-made. There's no doubt that a series of actions all played a role in the elevated lead levels in the bloodstreams of some Flint children. When the governor's own timeline says the "City of Flint decides to use the Flint River," it can't be dismissed as shorthand for the truth. The wording conflates an earlier city vote to transition from Detroit to the KWA with that of a Snyder-appointed emergency manager to use the Flint River as an interim source of water. Truth Squad calls a foul.
Who determined the final Standards of transmitted water? To me...........that is the CORE OF THE PROBLEM...........Had they raised the ph then using the Flint River wouldn't have been a problem anyway.
As I said above, the BUCK stops with the State. The Governor appointed a surrogagte to run the town and that surrogate made the decision to switch the water supply. Any issues with that decision cannot be laid on the doorstep of the city or the mayor who had no input on that decision.
I've not seen the Governor accuse anyone involved in this fiasco. And up until today I haven't seen anyone else take responsibility for the failures in this situation until the EPA resigned.
Seriously. How on earth could anyone expect the Mayor or the Council to do anything else but to trust the word of the DHHS that continually lied and said the water was safe. I just find that so crazy that your very own health department would let this go on.
It's unreal. I get a brain cramp every time I really think about it.
I'm a conservative, but when it comes to public health and responsibility, politics have to be set aside. Thank you JQPublic and Tiny Dancer for your informative posts.
Can DHHS be found culpable?
And think of the children being affected!The smoking gun to me is who determined the final product chemical treatment for the city?
Whoever made the call for the final product obviously didn't take into consideration the old pipes. The water being produced was safe drinking water if taken directly out of the treatment facility. Yet it didn't consider the old pipes to change to MINIMIZE the OLD lead pipes that would transmit the problem.
Finally, once it was known that it was a problem who stalled on bringing it to the people's attention and to the Politician's attention, and then who stalled on taking action on the problem? Any of them there are subject to getting raked over the coals and fired and/or sued. They WILL BE SUED and will end up paying A LOT OF MONEY.
Right now, they are all trying to avoid being the one's having to pay out in the final Law suit.
And to top it off, the Governors request for Federal Assistance was a decent move considering that everyone in the city would basically need a small Filtering system in their home to stop the lead content in their home. Because.........if I've read it correctly.........that once the inside of the pipes are damaged it will take TIME to stop the lead from bleeding into the water supply. So home filters would be the only way to immediately deal with it.
Bottom line. The City, as do many cities...........NEED NEW WATER MAINS.................If they are made out of LEAD then they WILL ALWAYS EMIT LEAD TO SOME EXTENT. It is a part of our aging Infrastructure that SOONER OR LATER will have to be addressed. And the costs of doing so will be high.
Goodnight!Nighters all. Great conversation. Appreciated.
Democratic party...Wasn't replacing the infrastructure (I.e. lead water pipes) with "shovel ready jobs" something Obama said he was going to use the stimulus money for? Instead that money was diverted to the Democrat Party, didn't it?
