First Hyrbid Solar Thermal Power Plant In Florida!!

[Jarlaxle]

And as expected, just more of the same tired old BS from the same tired old spambot...746th post, same as the first 745.

Were you one of the idiots who invested in Evergreen Solar, Silly?

No Jar Jar Binks, I'd only invest in a linear solar concentrating array that concentrates superheated solar radiation on a nearby tube.

I understand that BigOil has urged the engineering of "designed to fail" solar companies. I get it. They're afraid of the competition like Martin Solar that really works and puts them having to compete for real. It's a clever stunt I have to admit, pretending to be green, building a ramshackle failure project that looks "good-ish" on paper; only to go into bankrupcty. That's what any malignant capitalist who has gorged himself at the trough of monopolies would stoop to. It's just not practical anymore.

We know how to boil water with the sun. Sorry? I guess I'd just tell you that common sense should prevail in which company you invest in. The closer the concentrated sun rays are to the tube or vat of fluid they are superheating, the more efficient the system will run. That's why linear arrays work and those ridiculous circular arrays where the vat sits like 100 miles away from the mirrors, that are flat, not convex, are such a pathetic joke. The first time I saw a picture of one of those phasods-to-failure I nearly fell off my chair laughing.

Glad you brought that up Jar Jar.

More BS and lies from Silly, as usual.

 

[Jarlaxle]

You don't know anything about molten salt reactors if you're comparing them to an old breeder style reactor.

I know that all you're doing with them is boiling water to run turbines.

And, I know that they are much more expensive to permit, run and manage waste for than merely reflecting the sun with parabolic mirrors onto a tube filled with oil that goes to boil water to run turbines.

I know if I was investing in a new or old power company, I'd invest in the one that gets free water boiling/turbine running from the sunshine instead of some ghastly high-overhead $$ public nuisance or unnecessarily complex toxic process.

In short, to quote Idiocracy, "I like money..."

So you don't know anything about them.

Molten salt reactors actually run on the nuclear waste of our old reactors. Do not need to be refueled for 20 years or more run at more than 50% efficiency and can never ever melt down.

Tell me how many acres of land will it take to power millions of homes with solar?

If 500 acres are needed to power 11000 homes (during the day only) then to power 1.1 million homes (during the day only) you would need 50000 acres.

That's 78 square miles which is roughly the same size as the land area of Madison Wisconsin.

Now tell me how many acres you would need to power 11 million homes (during the day only)

I tried to explain the WAMSR to Silly...she was and is uninterested in understanding it. She prefers power plants that burn pixie dust and unicorn farts.

 

[Desperado]

So FPL spent $476 M to save $178 M over 30 years.

well that was before the tax credits.
I have to give FPL some credit...
Any oil we do not have to buy from over seas is a plus for the US.

 

[Silhouette]

I know that all you're doing with them is boiling water to run turbines.

And, I know that they are much more expensive to permit, run and manage waste for than merely reflecting the sun with parabolic mirrors onto a tube filled with oil that goes to boil water to run turbines.

I know if I was investing in a new or old power company, I'd invest in the one that gets free water boiling/turbine running from the sunshine instead of some ghastly high-overhead $$ public nuisance or unnecessarily complex toxic process.

In short, to quote Idiocracy, "I like money..."

So you don't know anything about them.

Molten salt reactors actually run on the nuclear waste of our old reactors. Do not need to be refueled for 20 years or more run at more than 50% efficiency and can never ever melt down.

Tell me how many acres of land will it take to power millions of homes with solar?

If 500 acres are needed to power 11000 homes (during the day only) then to power 1.1 million homes (during the day only) you would need 50000 acres.

That's 78 square miles which is roughly the same size as the land area of Madison Wisconsin.

Now tell me how many acres you would need to power 11 million homes (during the day only)

I tried to explain the WAMSR to Silly...she was and is uninterested in understanding it. She prefers power plants that burn pixie dust and unicorn farts.

Are you claiming that the Martin Solar plant that uses the linear oil tube superheated by the concentrated sun reflection that boils water to run its turbines this way is a made up story?

You're claiming they don't exist? Have you had your medication changed recently Jar Jar?

 

[Silhouette]

Bull, Republicans are for things that make sense.

Does spending $476M to save $178M over 30 years make sense to you?

And that's if the solar panels last for 30 years, which I doubt since nothing lasts that long here in the Florida sun.

Mirrors and solar panels are not one and the same. This project uses mirrors.

I know they're mirrors. It doesn't make a difference. How long can they be effective in the harsh sun, wind, and salt air?

...lol.. You're right. If we have to CLEAN the surfaces of those mirrors, that would mean someone would have to have a JOB to do that...lol..

Or, god forbid, we should have to order new replacement mirrors periodically [that are, incidentally made in the US], we'd have to have...*shudder* jobs in manufacturing to do that too! The horror!

You just made an argument FOR linear-array solar concentrating turbine power, do you realize that?

 

[Roguewave]

So FPL spent $476 M to save $178 M over 30 years.

well that was before the tax credits.
I have to give FPL some credit...
Any oil we do not have to buy from over seas is a plus for the US.

No "oil from overseas" is eliminated by solar power plants as none is used in the power plants replaced.

 

[Jarlaxle]

So you don't know anything about them.

Molten salt reactors actually run on the nuclear waste of our old reactors. Do not need to be refueled for 20 years or more run at more than 50% efficiency and can never ever melt down.

Tell me how many acres of land will it take to power millions of homes with solar?

If 500 acres are needed to power 11000 homes (during the day only) then to power 1.1 million homes (during the day only) you would need 50000 acres.

That's 78 square miles which is roughly the same size as the land area of Madison Wisconsin.

Now tell me how many acres you would need to power 11 million homes (during the day only)

I tried to explain the WAMSR to Silly...she was and is uninterested in understanding it. She prefers power plants that burn pixie dust and unicorn farts.

Are you claiming that the Martin Solar plant that uses the linear oil tube superheated by the concentrated sun reflection that boils water to run its turbines this way is a made up story?

You're claiming they don't exist? Have you had your medication changed recently Jar Jar?

No, you are LYING, again and still! You need to STOP FUCKING LYING!

Fact: the plant cost $476 million and will save $178 million. In the real world, that is a $298,000,000 loss! For every dollar spent, they will get 37 cents back. No matter what you shriek to the heavens, the numbers STILL DO NOT CHANGE!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Mirrors and solar panels are not one and the same. This project uses mirrors.

I know they're mirrors. It doesn't make a difference. How long can they be effective in the harsh sun, wind, and salt air?

...lol.. You're right. If we have to CLEAN the surfaces of those mirrors, that would mean someone would have to have a JOB to do that...lol..

Or, god forbid, we should have to order new replacement mirrors periodically [that are, incidentally made in the US], we'd have to have...*shudder* jobs in manufacturing to do that too! The horror!

You just made an argument FOR linear-array solar concentrating turbine power, do you realize that?

You have no idea what salt air does to steel, do you. (That's not a question.) Even stainless steel will corrode in salt air! (Even something as high-grade stainless as an industrial hydraulic cylinder.)

 

[Silhouette]

You have no idea what salt air does to steel, do you. (That's not a question.) Even stainless steel will corrode in salt air! (Even something as high-grade stainless as an industrial hydraulic cylinder.)

All components being equal on all water boiling plants, I could make the same argument about the components making up carbon or nuclear water boilers.

You're just sounding desperate now Jar Jar. Go take a nap and think up a better spin when you come back. Meanwhile, every sunny day Martin solar thermal is costing its investors less and less. Free sunshine. That's it's attractive edge. Carbon can't compete.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Once more, for the slow kid: The mirrors are (per what YOU posted) steel. Steel (even stainless steel) corrodes quickly in salt air...and the first thing compromised is its reflective qualities! Anyone HONEST will understand why this is bad for a solar-thermal power plant...are you honest enough to do so? (I expect not.)

Yet again: by YOUR numbers, the $476,000,000 investment will return $178,000,000 in savings. In other words: the entire thing is a $300,000,000 money pit.

 

[Roguewave]

Show us the money! What is the cost per MWH for the plant before subsidies? What was the cost before the solar addition? What is the difference and that will be your feasibility. If they are so damned proud of this innovation, they will proudly publish the results in dollars per megawatt hours. Average fluctuates somewhere around $30.00 wholesale price depending on time and place. If they are not willing to give their price or their cost, it is ballyhoo & bullshit. Money is how we keep score in the business world. To say the plant is producing electricity from the sun means jack without the costs attendant. Of course in this case they will have to separate the electricity costs from gas produced and solar produced to have meaning for purposes of this discussion.

 

[aoxomoxoa]

You have no idea what salt air does to steel, do you. (That's not a question.) Even stainless steel will corrode in salt air! (Even something as high-grade stainless as an industrial hydraulic cylinder.)

All components being equal on all water boiling plants, I could make the same argument about the components making up carbon or nuclear water boilers.

You're just sounding desperate now Jar Jar. Go take a nap and think up a better spin when you come back. Meanwhile, every sunny day Martin solar thermal is costing its investors less and less. Free sunshine. That's it's attractive edge. Carbon can't compete.

The major difference, which pretty obvious really is that those mirrors are outside, show me any conventional plant where that is true.

 

[Silhouette]

So, you guys are serious?...lol

Your main objection to arrays of mirrors concentrating solar energy on an oil-filled tube, boiling water that runs turbines after heat exchange is that "the mirrors might get dirty or corrode over time because they are outside"???

You mean, gasp, they'll have to be cleaned or replaced now and then at intervals? I suppose the companies employing them so they won't have essentially any overhead for the 300 days a year they are not having to pay to burn coal or natural gas, but charging the same amount as if they did, would have a little savings account they could tap years down the road to replace those mirrors, or, to hire guys to maintain them and keep them clean, oiled up and in good form?

Any other "legitimate complaints" about solar thermal?

 

[Spiderman]

So, you guys are serious?...lol

Your main objection to arrays of mirrors concentrating solar energy on an oil-filled tube, boiling water that runs turbines after heat exchange is that "the mirrors might get dirty or corrode over time because they are outside"???

You mean, gasp, they'll have to be cleaned or replaced now and then at intervals? I suppose the companies employing them so they won't have essentially any overhead for the 300 days a year they are not having to pay to burn coal or natural gas, but charging the same amount as if they did, would have a little savings account they could tap years down the road to replace those mirrors, or, to hire guys to maintain them and keep them clean, oiled up and in good form?

Any other "legitimate complaints" about solar thermal?

It's inefficient, takes up too much space and only works during the day. Oh and let's not forget to mention that it is expensive and will cost us more than it saves.

 

[Silhouette]

So, you guys are serious?...lol

Your main objection to arrays of mirrors concentrating solar energy on an oil-filled tube, boiling water that runs turbines after heat exchange is that "the mirrors might get dirty or corrode over time because they are outside"???

You mean, gasp, they'll have to be cleaned or replaced now and then at intervals? I suppose the companies employing them so they won't have essentially any overhead for the 300 days a year they are not having to pay to burn coal or natural gas, but charging the same amount as if they did, would have a little savings account they could tap years down the road to replace those mirrors, or, to hire guys to maintain them and keep them clean, oiled up and in good form?

Any other "legitimate complaints" about solar thermal?

It's inefficient, takes up too much space and only works during the day. Oh and let's not forget to mention that it is expensive and will cost us more than it saves.

Yes, getting free energy every minute of a given year that the sun shines is most surely "inefficient" from just mirrors. Terrible that all that time the plant owners won't have to outlay money to burn fossil fuels. Better to just burn 24/7 round the clock right? Cheaper that way, right? Much better to mine uranium, permit a plant, build an ungodly expensive sarcophagus, poison the environment with radiation, manage waste for hundreds of thousands of radioactive years. Or to mine coal, spill the processing chemicals into rivers that poison millions of downstream drinkers/bathers...

You mean "efficiency" like that?...

As you already know but are being dishonest about, mirrors are less expensive than fracking or coal mining or uranium mining and deaths. But carry on..it's rather amusing..

 

[Spiderman]

So, you guys are serious?...lol

Your main objection to arrays of mirrors concentrating solar energy on an oil-filled tube, boiling water that runs turbines after heat exchange is that "the mirrors might get dirty or corrode over time because they are outside"???

You mean, gasp, they'll have to be cleaned or replaced now and then at intervals? I suppose the companies employing them so they won't have essentially any overhead for the 300 days a year they are not having to pay to burn coal or natural gas, but charging the same amount as if they did, would have a little savings account they could tap years down the road to replace those mirrors, or, to hire guys to maintain them and keep them clean, oiled up and in good form?

Any other "legitimate complaints" about solar thermal?

It's inefficient, takes up too much space and only works during the day. Oh and let's not forget to mention that it is expensive and will cost us more than it saves.

Yes, getting free energy every minute of a given year that the sun shines is most surely "inefficient" from just mirrors. Terrible that all that time the plant owners won't have to outlay money to burn fossil fuels. Better to just burn 24/7 round the clock right? Cheaper that way, right? Much better to mine uranium, permit a plant, build an ungodly expensive sarcophagus, poison the environment with radiation, manage waste for hundreds of thousands of radioactive years. Or to mine coal, spill the processing chemicals into rivers that poison millions of downstream drinkers/bathers...

You mean "efficiency" like that?...

As you already know but are being dishonest about, mirrors are less expensive than fracking or coal mining or uranium mining and deaths. But carry on..it's rather amusing..

Did I mention fossil fuels in any of my posts?

Nuclear is the best option for abundant inexpensive emission free energy.

The new reactors I have mentioned are the future of energy. They are safe and will solve the problem of the nuclear waste he have in storage.

Solar is only good while the sun shines. Wind only when the wind blows.


Neither can provide enough energy to meet the needs of the future. At best wind and solar are supplemental.

 

[Jarlaxle]

So, you guys are serious?...lol

Your main objection to arrays of mirrors concentrating solar energy on an oil-filled tube, boiling water that runs turbines after heat exchange is that "the mirrors might get dirty or corrode over time because they are outside"???

My objections (stated yet again, for at least the thirtieth time) is that it is a bottomless money pit! God and goddess, are you really THIS FUCKING DENSE?!

 

[Jarlaxle]

So, you guys are serious?...lol

Your main objection to arrays of mirrors concentrating solar energy on an oil-filled tube, boiling water that runs turbines after heat exchange is that "the mirrors might get dirty or corrode over time because they are outside"???

You mean, gasp, they'll have to be cleaned or replaced now and then at intervals? I suppose the companies employing them so they won't have essentially any overhead for the 300 days a year they are not having to pay to burn coal or natural gas, but charging the same amount as if they did, would have a little savings account they could tap years down the road to replace those mirrors, or, to hire guys to maintain them and keep them clean, oiled up and in good form?

Any other "legitimate complaints" about solar thermal?

It's inefficient, takes up too much space and only works during the day. Oh and let's not forget to mention that it is expensive and will cost us more than it saves.

Yes, getting free energy every minute of a given year that the sun shines is most surely "inefficient" from just mirrors. Terrible that all that time the plant owners won't have to outlay money to burn fossil fuels. Better to just burn 24/7 round the clock right? Cheaper that way, right? Much better to mine uranium, permit a plant, build an ungodly expensive sarcophagus, poison the environment with radiation, manage waste for hundreds of thousands of radioactive years. Or to mine coal, spill the processing chemicals into rivers that poison millions of downstream drinkers/bathers...

You mean "efficiency" like that?...

As you already know but are being dishonest about, mirrors are less expensive than fracking or coal mining or uranium mining and deaths. But carry on..it's rather amusing..

WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK! Is it sinking through that thick skull yet, Silly?! Once more, for the REALLY slow kid: the plant is doing to LOSE THREE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS! Short of writing it in crayon, I do not know how much more I can simplify it!

 

[Silhouette]

Let's scale it down so your scary lies won't stick, shall we Jar Jar? Let's help folks see the economics of the situation...

Let's say my or your home or business was run by a tiny gas powered turbine to make electricity for you. Then you bought some mirrors that boiled the water for you using the sun's rays. So now while the sun was shining, you didn't have to buy gas to run your turbine. Whew! Good thing the sun shines 300 days a year where you live. What a savings!

At night you don't use much energy either. Neither does the country as a whole. Over a year's time you have saved so much money in gas that just five years later or less, your new system has paid for itself and you now have the cheapest energy of anyone on your block using the old carbon-24-7/365 system.

I'm not going to go all manic on you and type the same word a hundred times. But you get the point.. Just shift your investments, don't go into panic mode. That's what everyone else is doing. Don't get left behind and you won't panic.

 

[asterism]

Let's scale it down so your scary lies won't stick, shall we Jar Jar? Let's help folks see the economics of the situation...

Let's say my or your home or business was run by a tiny gas powered turbine to make electricity for you. Then you bought some mirrors that boiled the water for you using the sun's rays. So now while the sun was shining, you didn't have to buy gas to run your turbine. Whew! Good thing the sun shines 300 days a year where you live. What a savings!

At night you don't use much energy either. Neither does the country as a whole. Over a year's time you have saved so much money in gas that just five years later or less, your new system has paid for itself and you now have the cheapest energy of anyone on your block using the old carbon-24-7/365 system.

I'm not going to go all manic on you and type the same word a hundred times. But you get the point.. Just shift your investments, don't go into panic mode. That's what everyone else is doing. Don't get left behind and you won't panic.

Now show that this is a viable option using actual financial figures.

How much did the mirrors cost? How much is the cost to maintain and or replace them?