Five myths about Libertarianism

[NightFox]

Lie to your self all you want but the MAJORITY of those calling themselves libertarians have the same stand as progressives on MOST issues.

And the facts you have supporting this assertion are .... (drumroll please) .........

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Sure they do, Cork.

 

[thanatos144]

Sex, Drugs, Abortion, Foreign policy, Size of government (one want huge state government the other huger federal), Resp0onsibility, Religion and about everything BUT taxes.

Libertarians, as a group, take no position on sex other than it is none of the federal government's business. Liberals want government to set the rules liberals want re sex and how it is expressed.

Libertarians, as a group, take no official position on abortion other than it should be a local matter of conscience and the federal government has no constitutional authority to regulate it in any way. Liberals want the federal government to make abortion legal everywhere for everybody, period.

Libertarians, as a group, take no official position on foreign policy other than the federal government should be strictly limited to its constitutional authority when it comes to foreign policy. Liberals put no constitutional restrictions on much of anything.

Libertarians, as a group, take no official position on drugs other than it is appropriate for the federal government to have some oversight over safety issues re imported products, but the legalization and use of drugs by the people should be decided at the local level. Those states or communities who want them should be able to have them. Those that don't should be able to make them illegal. The federal government should stay out of that. Liberals want the federal government to have total control.

Libertarians take the view that those who want religious symbols, displays, and other religious expression should be free to have them. Those who don't want them should be able to have a socail contract that keeps them out of the public venue. The federal government cannot dictate any matters of religion and has no constitutional authority to interfere with that. Many anti-religious liberals would have the federal government remove all religious evidence from everything.

Libertarians believe people should be allowed to do whatever they choose to be or do so long as it requires no contribution or participation by any others. Liberals do not trust people to make all their own choices and want the federal government to be in charge of much of that.

Liberals want government to be their protector, safety net, mommy, daddy, and available teat if they get into any kind of difficulty. Libertarians see a government that can solve our problems as a government that can and will take anything it wants from us and therefore wants people to work out their own solutions to their problems and deal with the consequences of the choices they make.

Libertarians want the federal government to be restricted to its constitutionally mandated functions and be involved in absolutely nothing else.

I see no similarities of any kind between modern American liberals and libertarians.

IMHO You're devolving into an issues based tit-for-tat here Foxfyre, the fundamental difference between libertarians and modern "liberals" (or any other flavor of pro-statist ideology) is the libertarian belief in the principle of non-aggression and that it applies both to the individual AND the state. The modern "liberal" believes that the morality of the individual is separate from that of the state and thus the state is justified in using aggressive force (violence) to achieve it's goals while the individual is not, the libertarian believes that neither the individual nor the state is justified in initiating force to achieve it's goals. The use of force in the libertarian view is only justified by either party to protect the life, liberty and/or property of the citizenry.

It's really not a very complicated concept at it's core, however it can spawn a beautifully complex range of conclusions regarding any particular public policy question.

Nonaggression IE acting the pussy and taking it up the ass JUST like our current president. Now if we mix in the isolationism and xenophobic fear you all have will then become EVEN worse then the president.

 

[thanatos144]

Lie to your self all you want but the MAJORITY of those calling themselves libertarians have the same stand as progressives on MOST issues.

And the facts you have supporting this assertion are .... (drumroll please) .........

Read this very thread.... Oh I forgot your partisan blinders dont allow you to see whats in front of you.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Lie to your self all you want but the MAJORITY of those calling themselves libertarians have the same stand as progressives on MOST issues.

Did a better educated Libertarian get hired for the job you wanted?

What is the irrational, and frankly stupid, hatred you have for Libertarians?

 

[NightFox]

Libertarians, as a group, take no position on sex other than it is none of the federal government's business. Liberals want government to set the rules liberals want re sex and how it is expressed.

Libertarians, as a group, take no official position on abortion other than it should be a local matter of conscience and the federal government has no constitutional authority to regulate it in any way. Liberals want the federal government to make abortion legal everywhere for everybody, period.

Libertarians, as a group, take no official position on foreign policy other than the federal government should be strictly limited to its constitutional authority when it comes to foreign policy. Liberals put no constitutional restrictions on much of anything.

Libertarians, as a group, take no official position on drugs other than it is appropriate for the federal government to have some oversight over safety issues re imported products, but the legalization and use of drugs by the people should be decided at the local level. Those states or communities who want them should be able to have them. Those that don't should be able to make them illegal. The federal government should stay out of that. Liberals want the federal government to have total control.

Libertarians take the view that those who want religious symbols, displays, and other religious expression should be free to have them. Those who don't want them should be able to have a socail contract that keeps them out of the public venue. The federal government cannot dictate any matters of religion and has no constitutional authority to interfere with that. Many anti-religious liberals would have the federal government remove all religious evidence from everything.

Libertarians believe people should be allowed to do whatever they choose to be or do so long as it requires no contribution or participation by any others. Liberals do not trust people to make all their own choices and want the federal government to be in charge of much of that.

Liberals want government to be their protector, safety net, mommy, daddy, and available teat if they get into any kind of difficulty. Libertarians see a government that can solve our problems as a government that can and will take anything it wants from us and therefore wants people to work out their own solutions to their problems and deal with the consequences of the choices they make.

Libertarians want the federal government to be restricted to its constitutionally mandated functions and be involved in absolutely nothing else.

I see no similarities of any kind between modern American liberals and libertarians.

IMHO You're devolving into an issues based tit-for-tat here Foxfyre, the fundamental difference between libertarians and modern "liberals" (or any other flavor of pro-statist ideology) is the libertarian belief in the principle of non-aggression and that it applies both to the individual AND the state. The modern "liberal" believes that the morality of the individual is separate from that of the state and thus the state is justified in using aggressive force (violence) to achieve it's goals while the individual is not, the libertarian believes that neither the individual nor the state is justified in initiating force to achieve it's goals. The use of force in the libertarian view is only justified by either party to protect the life, liberty and/or property of the citizenry.

It's really not a very complicated concept at it's core, however it can spawn a beautifully complex range of conclusions regarding any particular public policy question.

Nonaggression IE acting the pussy and taking it up the ass JUST like our current president. Now if we mix in the isolationism and xenophobic fear you all have will then become EVEN worse then the president.

That's not what non-aggression means, I've already explained what it means, your attempt to transform it into another meaning to suit the purposes of what you have been attempting to pass off as an "argument" is, to put it mildly, childish. If you wish to continue behaving childishly do not be surprised when other people start treating you like a child.

 

[dblack]

IMHO You're devolving into an issues based tit-for-tat here Foxfyre, the fundamental difference between libertarians and modern "liberals" (or any other flavor of pro-statist ideology) is the libertarian belief in the principle of non-aggression and that it applies both to the individual AND the state. The modern "liberal" believes that the morality of the individual is separate from that of the state and thus the state is justified in using aggressive force (violence) to achieve it's goals while the individual is not, the libertarian believes that neither the individual nor the state is justified in initiating force to achieve it's goals. The use of force in the libertarian view is only justified by either party to protect the life, liberty and/or property of the citizenry.

It's really not a very complicated concept at it's core, however it can spawn a beautifully complex range of conclusions regarding any particular public policy question.

Nonaggression IE acting the pussy and taking it up the ass JUST like our current president. Now if we mix in the isolationism and xenophobic fear you all have will then become EVEN worse then the president.

That's not what non-aggression means, I've already explained what it means, your attempt to transform it into another meaning to suit the purposes of what you have been attempting to pass off as an "argument" is, to put it mildly, childish. If you wish to continue behaving childishly do not be surprised when other people start treating you like a child.

That started a while back...

 

[NightFox]

Lie to your self all you want but the MAJORITY of those calling themselves libertarians have the same stand as progressives on MOST issues.

And the facts you have supporting this assertion are .... (drumroll please) .........

Read this very thread.... Oh I forgot your partisan blinders dont allow you to see whats in front of you.

OIC, the old I'm going to obfuscate the fact that my assertions are baseless by deflecting to unspecified interpretations of what others have said.

My children used to try that one all the time, until upon reaching the ripe old age of 4 they figured out that it doesn't work.

 

[thanatos144]

And the facts you have supporting this assertion are .... (drumroll please) .........

Read this very thread.... Oh I forgot your partisan blinders dont allow you to see whats in front of you.

OIC, the old I'm going to obfuscate the fact that my assertions are baseless by deflecting to unspecified interpretations of what others have said.

My children used to try that one all the time, until upon reaching the ripe old age of 4 they figured out that it doesn't work.

No it called not playing your stupid game when you yourself have made my argument for me several times.

 

[thanatos144]

Fact it Libertarianism just means person who like to act superior for not being in a certain party....Even though they ARE the MOST PARTISAN group next to progressives.

 

[NightFox]

Read this very thread.... Oh I forgot your partisan blinders dont allow you to see whats in front of you.

OIC, the old I'm going to obfuscate the fact that my assertions are baseless by deflecting to unspecified interpretations of what others have said.

My children used to try that one all the time, until upon reaching the ripe old age of 4 they figured out that it doesn't work.

No it called not playing your stupid game when you yourself have made my argument for me several times.

I did? please point to where I made an argument that:

the MAJORITY of those calling themselves libertarians have the same stand as progressives on MOST issues.

 

[Foxfyre]

Lie to your self all you want but the MAJORITY of those calling themselves libertarians have the same stand as progressives on MOST issues.

Did a better educated Libertarian get hired for the job you wanted?

What is the irrational, and frankly stupid, hatred you have for Libertarians?

I went to some trouble to gave him a blow by blow rundown of how libetarianism in no way and in almost no issue resembles modern American liberalism. Alas, he ignored it and even Nightfox misunderstood it. But sheesh, I thought I did a damn good job.

 

[thanatos144]

OIC, the old I'm going to obfuscate the fact that my assertions are baseless by deflecting to unspecified interpretations of what others have said.

My children used to try that one all the time, until upon reaching the ripe old age of 4 they figured out that it doesn't work.

No it called not playing your stupid game when you yourself have made my argument for me several times.

I did? please point to where I made an argument that:

the MAJORITY of those calling themselves libertarians have the same stand as progressives on MOST issues.

You forgot what you posted???? Weed isn't doing you any good it seems.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

You guys really shouldn't try to seriously debate with Corky. It's better to just mock the guy for being hair brained.

 

[thanatos144]

You guys really shouldn't try to seriously debate with Corky. It's better to just mock the guy for being hair brained.

Or maybe you all should just own up to be stupid kids who think they can have it all and NOT have to pay for it.

 

[NightFox]

No it called not playing your stupid game when you yourself have made my argument for me several times.

I did? please point to where I made an argument that:

the MAJORITY of those calling themselves libertarians have the same stand as progressives on MOST issues.

You forgot what you posted???? Weed isn't doing you any good it seems.

Still waiting for you to point out where I made the argument that "the MAJORITY of those calling themselves libertarians have the same stand as progressives on MOST issues."

Or you did you wish to prolong your suffering at bit longer?

 

[thanatos144]

I did? please point to where I made an argument that:

You forgot what you posted???? Weed isn't doing you any good it seems.

Still waiting for you to point out where I made the argument that "the MAJORITY of those calling themselves libertarians have the same stand as progressives on MOST issues."

Or you did you wish to prolong your suffering at bit longer?

My suffering? I am not the one trying to ignore what I posted about things like Defense and abortion.

 

[NightFox]

You forgot what you posted???? Weed isn't doing you any good it seems.

Still waiting for you to point out where I made the argument that "the MAJORITY of those calling themselves libertarians have the same stand as progressives on MOST issues."

Or you did you wish to prolong your suffering at bit longer?

My suffering? I am not the one trying to ignore what I posted about things like Defense and abortion.

How does what I posted regarding the existence of both pro-life and pro-choice libertarians support your assertion that:

"the MAJORITY of those calling themselves libertarians have the same stand as progressives on MOST issues." ?

and what "things like defense" are you referring to?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Fact it Libertarianism just means person who like to act superior for not being in a certain party....Even though they ARE the MOST PARTISAN group next to progressives.

I am a Libertarian. I am registered with the LPUSA, I VOTE Libertarian 90% of the time.

Still, have you EVER seen me side with the Progressive here? I mean even once? I may not always side with the Republicans - but have you EVER seen me side with the authoritarian left?

Before you make the claim, be ready to back it up with a link...

 

[Uncensored2008]

I went to some trouble to gave him a blow by blow rundown of how libetarianism in no way and in almost no issue resembles modern American liberalism. Alas, he ignored it and even Nightfox misunderstood it. But sheesh, I thought I did a damn good job.

Yes, you did a very good job, and I thank you for it.

But you know what they say about casting pearls before swine...