Zone1 For Christians who believe in Darwinian evolution, question

[Meriweather]

So you reject the BIBLICAL ACCOUNT that Man was a unique creation of God.

Sigh. No.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I did? Shrug

That's how it read

 

[Meriweather]

I already said that, twice. (that it's not a salvific issue) So I'm not sure why you felt the need to say that to me.

Probably because I was on the phone with my two daughters, talking about something totally unrelated. I am sorry I absent-mindedly said something to you that there was no need to say.

 

[Meriweather]

That's how it read

I understand that is how you read it. That is why I responded, "No."

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Sigh. No.

Yes you did. You're trying to reconcile.odern pseudo science with the crystal clear Biblical account.

 

[Meriweather]

It absolutely DOES matter.

It matters we are a unique creation of God. It matters not a whit how long it took to create us, or how He created us. It matters that He did.

 

[buttercup]

It absolutely DOES matter. You cannot have it both ways. God said what He said, and Jesus stood by every word of Scripture as did the apostles.

It's time to get off the fence and stop flirting with paganism as your Catholic ancestors have always done

I definitely agree that anyone who professes to be a Christian should get off the fence... Jesus made it abundantly clear that he does not want lukewarm, either be hot or cold, but lukewarm will be spit out. And also, as you said, it is made very clear throughout the bible that believers can't mix religious beliefs or put man-made ideas and traditions above God.

But that said, I don't think belief in evolution has to do with salvation. FTR, that's why I said "it doesn't matter", I was talking about it only in that sense. But I would agree that if someone takes the whole bible as mere "metaphor" or whatever... then they are far more likely to be wrong about numerous important doctrines, including salvation.

I hope that made sense.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Thomas proclaims in worship before Jesus, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28). The confession of deity here is unmistakable here, and Jesus never rebuked Thomas, or others, for this. He also did many miraculous signs (John 2, 6, 11) and had the prerogative to judge people (John 5:27) because He is the Creator of the world (John 1:1–3; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2; Revelation 4:11).

Jesus Reveals Himself as the Creator in human form and He never disputed the accuracy of Scripture

 

[buttercup]

I did? Shrug. I merely brought up what my grandmother would say when someone made a monkey comment. I thought you just brought up that people could believe what they want?

If you did not literally mean that people could believe what they want, I will try to remember that next time.

Sigh. Let me try to clear up the confusion here. When I said I wasn't being literal, I was talking about my joke about one's great-great-great grandfather being a monkey. Obviously I was joking about that and not trying to make a claim about what evolution teaches.

And when I said people can believe what they want, that was NOT a general statement. Of course what we believe matters. I was just saying that if some Christians believe in God and evolution, I don't think it's a salvific issue. Is everything more clear now?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Another question.

If evolution is true, why have all the primates not evolved beyond that stage? Fish too for that matter. If the modern human is the end goal of Satan's evolutionary doctrine, why are there fish? Or ducks? Or mice?

 

[Meriweather]

Sigh. Let me try to clear up the confusion here. When I said I wasn't being literal, I was talking about my joke about one's great-great-great grandfather being a monkey. Obviously I was joking about that and not trying to make a claim about what evolution teaches.

And that's how I took it the first time. You seemed to think I took it differently when I hadn't. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Meriweather]

And when I said people can believe what they want, that was NOT a general statement. Of course what we believe matters. I was just saying that if some Christians believe in God and evolution, I don't think it's a salvific issue. Is everything more clear now?

It was clear the first time. I understood. You thought I didn't. Again, sorry for the confusion.

 

[buttercup]

And that's how I took it the first time. You seemed to think I took it differently when I hadn't. Sorry for the confusion.

Well, I don't know why you would try to "correct" me if you understood it was a mere joke, and not a claim about what evolution teaches.

But whatever, not worth arguing about.

 

[Meriweather]

Well, I don't know why you would try to "correct" me

It appears sometimes agreeing with someone is seen as correcting them, and I am sorry about that. I didn't see anything in your post that needed correcting. I was merely agreeing, but next time I'll just nod. Plus, finish the any response when I am not otherwise distracted. That should resolve the issue.

 

[surada]

I suspect that the % of Christians who take their bibles literally could be somewhat more than Meri's claim of 20%.

You and others are hinting at that.

Evolution doesn't claim that somebody's great grandfather was a monkey. The claim being made is that we are related to the apes through what Christians would refer to as a 'missing link'.

There is no missing link. Would you like to learn more?

About 1919 there was a huge reactionary movement towards fundamentalism out of fear of science and modernity. It lead to the Scopes Monkey Trial.

I don't understand why there's a fight between science and spiritual matters.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Merriweather is Catholic, and in my experience most Catholics have a very different perspective when it comes to the bible, and a number of doctrines and issues. I know a lot of Christians and I can't think of ANY who agree with evolution. But I have encountered Catholic Christians who believe in both God and evolution. In fact, one time I remember meeting a few (through my cousin, who is Catholic) who sort of even mocked my belief in creationism and wanted to argue with me about evolution. Again, it's not a salvific issue, so if they want to believe their great-great-great-etc grandfather was a monkey, they can have at it! lolol

Yes, but as you said above, it makes no sense for God to act in that way. If Man decended from Ape via natural selection, then there is no reason to think of Man as unique among species. My question for such a believer would be when did God decide that humans were unique and should have souls? Did Apes have souls? Do they still?

 

[buttercup]

Yes, but as you said above, it makes no sense for God to act in that way. If Man decended from Ape via natural selection, then there is no reason to think of Man as unique among species. My question for such a believer would be when did God decide that humans were unique and should have souls? Did Apes have souls? Do they still?

Great point. That double-minded view doesn't make sense for a number of reasons.

I do believe animals have souls, and that's not just my opinion, it's biblical. But humans are made in God's image, and that is something that is said to be unique to humans. So another question for those who believe in God-guided evolution would be when did humans begin to be image-bearers of God? I mean, according to their evolutionist view.

 

[Meriweather]

My question for such a believer would be when did God decide that humans were unique and should have souls? Did Apes have souls? Do they still?

The belief is humans are unique in that we have souls. There is no belief that apes ever had souls. We don't know when God breathed life/spirit-soul into people. The Bible notes this happened with humans, and makes no mention of it happening with any other species.

 

[Meriweather]

So another question for those who believe in God-guided evolution would be when did humans begin to be image-bearers of God?

Do you believe God looks like a human being? The Hebrew translates better as 'likeness' meaning human were made in the likeness of God, which broadens the scope beyond physical image.

 

[buttercup]

Do you believe God looks like a human being? The Hebrew translates better as 'likeness' meaning human were made in the likeness of God, which broadens the scope beyond physical image.

No! Where do you think I said that?