French call for stronger EU to keep America in check

[CSM]

no you can only speak for yourself. It is pretentious to speak for others.
Unless you are elected as a faction leader.

There is not one voice in Europe and the opposition against the war in Iraq is not based on one fact either. What you posted and your attitude reminds
me of a teen that watched Fahrenheit 911 and in school is fed the war
is always evil routine.

There are reasons to oppose this war but for now you havent argued your
own points of views.

Instead you generalized all Americans and all Europeans. You pretty much
went with the Fahrenheit plot and other conspiracy website bs about
Bush.

Then you throw in some De Gaulle. I wrote a Reseach study about
German-French relations since 1870 and de Gaulle was a part of it. What do you really know about France and its politics?

Either way you want to make a case for the war against Iraq please
do that with your own reasoning first, then you can make your
case against the current US administration the US press (that in your
views works for the government by conditioning the poor idiots).

Then hand us your solution for Iraq, withdrawal?

To be fair sir, I am the one that brought up De Gaulle and not j07950.

 

[j07950]

Complain away---Americans were just shocked to see the lack of support form it's former allies when we were attacked. Then we learn that our former allies and the UN were complicit in propping up Saddam Hussein while the US was trying to keep him in check. Being stabbed in the back is NOT a thing Americans or anyone likes so we are responding in kind. We will get over it but we won't gorgrt who is our friend and who are our new enemies.

What do you mean lack of support when you were attacked?
In 2002, France allocated a budget of 33.7 M Euros for reconstruction in Afghanistan. It also helped in Afghanistan with it's army. The NATO-led International Security Assistance Force received reinforcements of around 3,000 troops for the October 9 presidential election, about half of whom are still in country.Almost 8,400 soldiers are now deployed under the force's command in Afghanistan.
So I don't know what you mean by lack of support.
We didn't give you support for war in Irak and we all know why, and Irak was not connected to 9/11 so I don't know how not helping you in Irak has anything to do with a lack of support after you were attacked.

 

[nosarcasm]

To be fair sir, I am the one that brought up De Gaulle and not j07950.

oops my bad

 

[j07950]

no you can only speak for yourself. It is pretentious to speak for others.
Unless you are elected as a faction leader.

There is not one voice in Europe and the opposition against the war in Iraq is not based on one fact either. What you posted and your attitude reminds
me of a teen that watched Fahrenheit 911 and in school is fed the war
is always evil routine.

There are reasons to oppose this war but for now you havent argued your
own points of views.

Instead you generalized all Americans and all Europeans. You pretty much
went with the Fahrenheit plot and other conspiracy website bs about
Bush.

Then you throw in some De Gaulle. I wrote a Reseach study about
German-French relations since 1870 and de Gaulle was a part of it. What do you really know about France and its politics?

Either way you want to make a case for the war against Iraq please
do that with your own reasoning first, then you can make your
case against the current US administration the US press (that in your
views works for the government by conditioning the poor idiots).

Then hand us your solution for Iraq, withdrawal?

Are you just being stupid?
You may think I'm generalizing but I haven't just come up with this stuff. We have class discussion at university and what I'm saying here today is how people feel about the war and the US foreign policies.
I didn't even see Fahrenheit 911!!!
Obviously withdrawal is out of the question, it's much too late for that, it would bring more chaos...

 

[j07950]

Are you against hearing an opposing European point of view? The fact that you do not have the links to opposition views to your stance makes me believe that you have not tried to get a fair and balanced view of the US. Would you like some links to sites that support US leadership and US foriegn policy? I bet there are many on this board more than willing to provide such!

I actually wouldn't mind those links if you've got them, but only if there is a mix of American and foreign point of views...thanks

By the way here is one: http://www.us-democratorship.com/

 

[CSM]

Are you just being stupid?
You may think I'm generalizing but I haven't just come up with this stuff. We have class discussion at university and what I'm saying here today is how people feel about the war and the US foreign policies.
I didn't even see Fahrenheit 911!!!
Obviously withdrawal is out of the question, it's much too late for that, it would bring more chaos...

Who (if anyone) presented the opposing view in your discussions? Was your view as presented here unanimous among the members of the discussion?
The reason I ask this is because it has been my experience that such discussions tend to be very one sided (much like what you are seeing here on this board! I admire your persistence against the fusilade you are experiencing!) and very often such "discussions" are really some professor's platform for his/her ideological belief.

 

[nosarcasm]

http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html

This is one isolationist conservative perspective on the reasons
for the war in Iraq.

 

[CSM]

I actually wouldn't mind those links if you've got them, but only if there is a mix of American and foreign point of views...thanks

By the way here is one: http://www.us-democratorship.com/

Your reply confirms my suspicion that you personally have not even tried to research a fair and balanced perspective or an objective point of view. I have to wonder how much conditioning you have unwittingly received?

I will collect up some links for you and I am sure many others will provide more. I have ameeting here in the next few minutes so it wont be right away...

 

[CSM]

I actually wouldn't mind those links if you've got them, but only if there is a mix of American and foreign point of views...thanks

By the way here is one: http://www.us-democratorship.com/

The site you link to here is very much anti Bush and not exactly what I meant by having an objective view...the first link referenced on this site is to Michael Moore....

 

[j07950]

Your reply confirms my suspicion that you personally have not even tried to research a fair and balanced perspective or an objective point of view. I have to wonder how much conditioning you have unwittingly received?

I will collect up some links for you and I am sure many others will provide more. I have ameeting here in the next few minutes so it wont be right away...

I previously said I have but if you think your links are better than go ahead, thats why I want them, just to see if I've missed something. As for our class discussions, it's "we" students who direct it, the teacher is only there to make us develop our ideas and thoughts, he is in no way influencing us as we have to do our own research first.

 

[j07950]

The site you link to here is very much anti Bush and not exactly what I meant by having an objective view...the first link referenced on this site is to Michael Moore....

LOL...hadn't even seen the michael moore link, but then again I'm not really interested in what he says, he's too one-sided. Nevermind for that link. I really appreciate this conversation with you...

 

[Mr. P]

... As for our class discussions, it's "we" students who direct it, the teacher is only there to make us develop our ideas and thoughts, he is in no way influencing us as we have to do our own research first.

Ever hear the phrase, "The blind leading the blind"?

 

[j07950]

Ever hear the phrase, "The blind leading the blind"?

That's just a phrase...
Considering that my teacher is american then I guess he's changed sides. It's weird because he's as critic about some of their policies as he's quick to point out to all the great things they do.

 

[CSM]

LOL...hadn't even seen the michael moore link, but then again I'm not really interested in what he says, he's too one-sided. Nevermind for that link. I really appreciate this conversation with you...

Here is a good place to start:

http://www.state.gov/

 

[j07950]

Here is a good place to start:

http://www.state.gov/

Thanks I'll look through it, but that's kind of one sided isn't it, being the US departement of state website, they aren't likely to say some of their policies are wrong.
But I'll read on...


Oh by the way, what the US is doing in Southern Asia is great...see I can appreciate. Bringing Bush Sr. and clinton for united action was great I think.

 

[CSM]

Another:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nss.html

 

[CSM]

Thanks I'll look through it, but that's kind of one sided isn't it, being the US departement of state website, they aren't likely to say some of their policies are wrong.
But I'll read on...

The point is you get a look at a different perspective. Do not expect me to post links to anti US sites; I am sure you have plenty of those.

 

[j07950]

The point is you get a look at a different perspective. Do not expect me to post links to anti US sites; I am sure you have plenty of those.

True I do...but I also watch CNN and fox news (although thats probably the most pro-governmental channel) so I get it from all sides and I talk to many american friends I have left. So I don't only get my information from anti-US sites.

 

[dilloduck]

What do you mean lack of support when you were attacked?
In 2002, France allocated a budget of 33.7 M Euros for reconstruction in Afghanistan. It also helped in Afghanistan with it's army. The NATO-led International Security Assistance Force received reinforcements of around 3,000 troops for the October 9 presidential election, about half of whom are still in country.Almost 8,400 soldiers are now deployed under the force's command in Afghanistan.
So I don't know what you mean by lack of support.
We didn't give you support for war in Irak and we all know why, and Irak was not connected to 9/11 so I don't know how not helping you in Irak has anything to do with a lack of support after you were attacked.

Iraq was a regime that supports and promotes terrorism. We are not just fighting Al quaeda--the WOT is a war on ALL terrorists who would wish to do America and it's allies harm. What is it about this WOT that you don't understand ??? It is also being fought in the Phillipines, Pakistan, and other countries using differnet methods but you insist on making only an issue of Iraq. Why?----(while millions in Europe were protesting Iraq---millions were also staying home in silent support of the WOT)

 

[CSM]

This site has many many links to other sites...some are critical of Us policy and others are not.

http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/