'Fuck You, Guns'

[saveliberty]

In 1986 1 and again in 1993 2, author Dr. Arthur L. Kellerman and Donald Reay
published a controversial study and paper in the New England Journal of Medicine which
attempted to demonstrate an increased risk to homicides in the home due to gun
ownership. In his 1986 paper, Kellerman was widely credited and criticized for jumping
to a conclusion that people are “43 times more likely” to be murdered in their own home
if they own and keep a gun in their home. To arrive at the 43 to 1 figure in his 1986
paper, Kellerman included suicides as “unjustifiable homicides” which amounted to
nearly all of the 43 unjustified deaths that Kellerman and Reay cited.

The 1993 Kellerman study was equally flawed although Kellerman backed away
from the 43 times figure and concluded that a person who had a gun in their home was
2.7 times more likely to be the victim of a homicide than one who did not.

Kellerman refused to release the raw data of his study on publication and to this
day has refused to release the raw numbers.

http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/papers-shade/StatisticalMisgivingsandLies.PDF

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Kellerman's study was fabricated, I linked the reasons earlier. The author even admitted mistakes.

I know.

 

[JoeB131]

The right to bear arms is more than home protection. We may someday have to rebel against tyrants. Those tyrants would like nothing more than for us to have only tissue balls to throw at them.

Quite true. The intent of the Second Amendment is not to give us concealed carry of a pistol or hunting with a shot gun, but to remind the Government that the citizenry is in fact armed.......

The day the nutbags take up arms against the government, they will kill them fairly quickly, and most of their neighbors will cheer loudly when they do so beause they were frightening the children.

Honestly, anyone who says that they need an automatic weapons to take out the "gummit" is some kind of fuckin' idiot, and frankly, the government ought to take them out in the interest of evolution.

 

[JoeB131]

The 1993 Kellerman study was equally flawed although Kellerman backed away
from the 43 times figure and concluded that a person who had a gun in their home was
2.7 times more likely to be the victim of a homicide than one who did not.



http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/papers-shade/StatisticalMisgivingsandLies.PDF

Except that's NEVER what Kellerman claimed.

The figure was spot on. For every death of an intruder, you had 39 suicides, 3 homicides by a family member and 1 accident. But the gun whackos like to pretend the suicides don't count, well, just because.

 

[JoeB131]

[

How many people are killed by a gun in their house?
Divide by 43 and prove that that tiny number is the number of bad guys "fended off".

Or run away. Again.

Well, unlike you, I have a job.

And few criminals are "fended off". Most burglaries take place when no one is home and they end up stealing the guns along with the DVD player.

 

[SFC Ollie]

The right to bear arms is more than home protection. We may someday have to rebel against tyrants. Those tyrants would like nothing more than for us to have only tissue balls to throw at them.

Quite true. The intent of the Second Amendment is not to give us concealed carry of a pistol or hunting with a shot gun, but to remind the Government that the citizenry is in fact armed.......

The day the nutbags take up arms against the government, they will kill them fairly quickly, and most of their neighbors will cheer loudly when they do so beause they were frightening the children.

Honestly, anyone who says that they need an automatic weapons to take out the "gummit" is some kind of fuckin' idiot, and frankly, the government ought to take them out in the interest of evolution.

Still it is the original intent. Whether it ever happens or not...

In the fourth of a series of essays defending the Constitution, Coxe argued that, should tyranny threaten, the "friends to liberty ... using those arms which Providence has put into their hands, will make a solemn appeal to 'the power above."' [68] Hence, the new Constitution did not need a declaration of rights any more than the Articles of Confederation did: "Neither of them have a bill of rights, nor does either notice the liberty of the press, because they are already provided for by the State Constitutions; and relating only to personal rights, they could not be mentioned in a contract among sovereign states." [69] As for the alleged danger of a standing army: "The militia, who are in fact the effective part of the people at large, will render many troops quite unnecessary. They will form a powerful check upon *361 the regular troops, and will generally be sufficient to over-awe them ...." [70] Coxe wrote Madison of this installment:

At the request of Mr. Wilson, Dr. Rush and another friend or two I added a 4th. paper, calculated to shew the general advantages & obviate some of the Objections to the System.... wish that you and Col. H[amilton] may make any use of them, which you think will serve the cause. [71]

Madison replied that he had disposed of the papers as directed and had given copies to Alexander Hamilton: "I have no doubt that he will make the best use of them.... The 4th is a valuable continuation, and I shall be equally desirous of seeing it in the Virginia Gazettes; and indeed in those of every State." [72] The installment was published widely, [73] and the series circulated as a vital part of the national debate. [74]

The argument that the militia would be sufficient to over-awe a standing army was persuasive in Pennsylvania, [75] the first state to call a convention. But antifederalists *362 at the convention were not convinced. As John Smilie warned: "Congress may give us a select militia which will, in fact, be a standing army-or Congress, afraid of a general militia, may say there shall be no militia at all. When a select militia is formed; the people in general may be disarmed." [76] James Wilson, who had urged Coxe to write "An American Citizen IV," contended that the Constitution already allowed for the ultimate force in the people: " In its principles, it is surely democratical; for, however wide and various the firearms of power may appear, they may all be traced to one source, the people." [77]

In case you haven't figured it out or simply do not know who Coxe is you really should study more....

Tench Coxe and the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, 1787-1823

 

[JoeB131]

Quite true. The intent of the Second Amendment is not to give us concealed carry of a pistol or hunting with a shot gun, but to remind the Government that the citizenry is in fact armed.......

The day the nutbags take up arms against the government, they will kill them fairly quickly, and most of their neighbors will cheer loudly when they do so beause they were frightening the children.

Honestly, anyone who says that they need an automatic weapons to take out the "gummit" is some kind of fuckin' idiot, and frankly, the government ought to take them out in the interest of evolution.

Still it is the original intent. Whether it ever happens or not...

The original intent of the founders was that they could keep raping their slaves forever.

I think it's time we move beyond the wishes of a bunch of dead rich assholes and try to live in the here and now.

In the here and now, there is no good reason why crazy people should be allowed to buy military grade weapons with extra-capacity magazines and teflon coated bullets.

 

[SFC Ollie]

No JoeB we will not move beyond the Constitution of the United States no matter how much you hate it.......

 

[JoeB131]

No JoeB we will not move beyond the Constitution of the United States no matter how much you hate it.......

I think you'll be amazed how fast people will move beyond your bizarre interpretation of the wishes of the Founding Slave-Rapists.

Dead kids tend to have that effect on people. Frankly, people in my office have been talking about nothing but the last three days.

And the assholes at the NRA have joined Cheney in that "Undisclosed Location"...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

[

How many people are killed by a gun in their house?
Divide by 43 and prove that that tiny number is the number of bad guys "fended off".

Or run away. Again.

Well, unlike you, I have a job.

And few criminals are "fended off". Most burglaries take place when no one is home and they end up stealing the guns along with the DVD player.

And few criminals are "fended off".

How few annually?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The day the nutbags take up arms against the government, they will kill them fairly quickly, and most of their neighbors will cheer loudly when they do so beause they were frightening the children.

Honestly, anyone who says that they need an automatic weapons to take out the "gummit" is some kind of fuckin' idiot, and frankly, the government ought to take them out in the interest of evolution.

Still it is the original intent. Whether it ever happens or not...

The original intent of the founders was that they could keep raping their slaves forever.

I think it's time we move beyond the wishes of a bunch of dead rich assholes and try to live in the here and now.

In the here and now, there is no good reason why crazy people should be allowed to buy military grade weapons with extra-capacity magazines and teflon coated bullets.

In the here and now, crazy people aren't allowed to buy those things.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Still it is the original intent. Whether it ever happens or not...

The original intent of the founders was that they could keep raping their slaves forever.

I think it's time we move beyond the wishes of a bunch of dead rich assholes and try to live in the here and now.

In the here and now, there is no good reason why crazy people should be allowed to buy military grade weapons with extra-capacity magazines and teflon coated bullets.

In the here and now, crazy people aren't allowed to buy those things.

JoeB has a problem with reality.......

 

[JoeB131]

[

In the here and now, crazy people aren't allowed to buy those things.

Loughner legally bought his gun.

Joker Holmes legally bought his guns.

Cho legally bought his guns.

Yes, crazy people can buy guns, and that is the problem.

 

[JoeB131]

The original intent of the founders was that they could keep raping their slaves forever.

I think it's time we move beyond the wishes of a bunch of dead rich assholes and try to live in the here and now.

In the here and now, there is no good reason why crazy people should be allowed to buy military grade weapons with extra-capacity magazines and teflon coated bullets.

In the here and now, crazy people aren't allowed to buy those things.

JoeB has a problem with reality.......

The reality is, if crazy people can buy military grade weapons, then weapons are too easy to get.

"But I have to have those weapons in case I need to fight the government some day."

 

[squeeze berry]

The day the nutbags take up arms against the government, they will kill them fairly quickly, and most of their neighbors will cheer loudly when they do so beause they were frightening the children.

Honestly, anyone who says that they need an automatic weapons to take out the "gummit" is some kind of fuckin' idiot, and frankly, the government ought to take them out in the interest of evolution.

Still it is the original intent. Whether it ever happens or not...

The original intent of the founders was that they could keep raping their slaves forever.

I think it's time we move beyond the wishes of a bunch of dead rich assholes and try to live in the here and now.

In the here and now, there is no good reason why crazy people should be allowed to buy military grade weapons with extra-capacity magazines and teflon coated bullets.

what we need is a link to this outrageous comment..

 

[squeeze berry]

In the here and now, crazy people aren't allowed to buy those things.

JoeB has a problem with reality.......

The reality is, if crazy people can buy military grade weapons, then weapons are too easy to get.

"But I have to have those weapons in case I need to fight the government some day."

can we have a link to private citizens walking around with guided missle destroyers and aircraft carriers?

 

[Stephanie]

No JoeB we will not move beyond the Constitution of the United States no matter how much you hate it.......

I think you'll be amazed how fast people will move beyond your bizarre interpretation of the wishes of the Founding Slave-Rapists.

Dead kids tend to have that effect on people. Frankly, people in my office have been talking about nothing but the last three days.

And the assholes at the NRA have joined Cheney in that "Undisclosed Location"...

really, 50 million dead from abortions doesn't bother YOU PEOPLE much..why these?

Because it's something you all can climb on your soap box to rail about, not that you really CARE about the children

frikken Hypocrites

 

[JoeB131]

Still it is the original intent. Whether it ever happens or not...

The original intent of the founders was that they could keep raping their slaves forever.

I think it's time we move beyond the wishes of a bunch of dead rich assholes and try to live in the here and now.

In the here and now, there is no good reason why crazy people should be allowed to buy military grade weapons with extra-capacity magazines and teflon coated bullets.

what we need is a link to this outrageous comment..

I don't do links...

Are you denying that the founders were slave-owners. Or the fact we have about 20 different skin hues on black folks in this country doesn't prove they were being raped regularly?

 

[JoeB131]

No JoeB we will not move beyond the Constitution of the United States no matter how much you hate it.......

I think you'll be amazed how fast people will move beyond your bizarre interpretation of the wishes of the Founding Slave-Rapists.

Dead kids tend to have that effect on people. Frankly, people in my office have been talking about nothing but the last three days.

And the assholes at the NRA have joined Cheney in that "Undisclosed Location"...

really, 50 million dead from abortions doesn't bother YOU PEOPLE much..why these?

Because it's something you all can climb on your soap box to rail about, not that you really CARE about the children

frikken Hypocrites

 

[Stephanie]

I think you'll be amazed how fast people will move beyond your bizarre interpretation of the wishes of the Founding Slave-Rapists.

Dead kids tend to have that effect on people. Frankly, people in my office have been talking about nothing but the last three days.

And the assholes at the NRA have joined Cheney in that "Undisclosed Location"...

really, 50 million dead from abortions doesn't bother YOU PEOPLE much..why these?

Because it's something you all can climb on your soap box to rail about, not that you really CARE about the children

frikken Hypocrites

ummhumm..you are biggest hypocrite of them all here.