Gangsters and the Naked Gold Short

[georgephillip]

First a brief bio of the conservative who's making the charge of a criminal conspiracy to rig the gold and silver markets:

"Paul Craig Roberts (born April 3, 1939) is an American economist and a columnist for Creators Syndicate. He served as an Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration and was noted as a co-founder of Reaganomics.[1] He is a former editor and columnist for the Wall Street Journal, Business Week, and Scripps Howard News Service. He has testified before congressional committees on 30 occasions on issues of economic policy."

This is where Robert's allegation begins:

"My explanation that the sudden appearance of an unprecedented 400 ton short sale of gold on the COMEX in April was a manipulation designed to protect the dollar from the Federal Reserve’s quantitative easing policy has found acceptance among gold investors and hedge fund managers.

"The sale was a naked short.

"The seller had no gold to sell.

"COMEX reported having gold only equal to about half of the short sale in its vaults, and not all of that was available for delivery. No one but the Federal Reserve could have placed such an order, and the order came from one of the Fed’s bullion banks, one of the entities 'too big to fail.'”

As one unschooled in the dismal science, my first question would be: is Roberts correct to call this particular sale a "naked short?" My second concerns his allegation that "only the Fed could have placed such an order?"

Gangster State America. ?Naked Short? in the Gold Market | Global Research

"Again we see that institutions of the US government are acting 100% against the interests of US citizens. Just who does the US government represent?"

That's my big question.

"The sale was a naked short.

"The seller had no gold to sell.

Naked short is a term better used when discussing the stock market.
It means you sell the stock without already owning it and without first borrowing it, like you should, like you must, when you sell short.

When you sell a futures contract, you're just selling short.
Most speculators in the futures market that think something will drop in price will sell a futures contract. They don't need to own the gold, oil, soybeans, whatever, before they sell.
They don't need to borrow the gold, oil, soybeans, whatever, in order to legally sell short, unlike the scenario I described about stock.
Anyone who has enough margin on deposit could enter a similar order, long or short, without it being a plot by the Fed (or JP Morgan acting for the Fed).

Paul can't be taken seriously anymore, he's gone around the bend.
A few eggs short (not naked short) of an omelet, if you know what I mean.

What would you estimate the chances are of the US dollar losing its reserve currency status?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

George, This is the email I got explaining what is going on. If you have a question for him let me know and I will ask him to give me a response for you. He doesn't write here.
- Jeri



It is interesting that the United States' is going to take 7 years to deliver 300 tons of gold back to Germany. Seven years. I find it even more interesting that not many people have scrutinized this situation. After all, it took Venezuela only about 4 months to get 200 tons of its gold repatriated from London and Switzerland. Hugo Chavez may be remembered by many as a crackpot, but I have a feeling the world will soon understand why one of his last moves before he died may have been his most brilliant. After all, Venezuela now has possession of its foreign-stored gold - Germany does not.

Something else that has been extraordinarily overlooked, or intentionally ignored by the media, is the fact that about 80% of the recent price hit in gold/silver has occurred during Comex trading hours, after the physical buying markets in the east (China, Russia, India, et al) have gone to sleep or home for the weekend. Please note: the Comex is a paper trading market. The Comex may have enough metal to settle about 5% of the entire open interest of gold and silver, if the entities long the paper contracts decided to stand for delivery. Typically less than 1% stand for delivery each delivery month.

So when you hear accounts that 100's of tons of "gold" were dumped on the Comex market last Monday, please understand and know that this was "gold" as represented by a paper Comex gold futures contract. On the Comex gold grows on trees - everywhere else in the world that wants to own gold, physical gold has to be delivered.

Even more significantly are the reports from around the world of precious metals counterparties failing to deliver physical metal. It started a couple weeks ago - and not coincidentally right before the price hit started - when big Dutch bank ABN/AMRO notified its clients who had invested in a "gold bullion" account that the bank would no longer make physical delivery of the gold that was supposed to be in the account and that all accounts would be settled in cash.

This morning we woke up to an interview with Jim Sinclair, who reported that "a person that I know with significant deposits in one of the primary Swiss banks, in allocated gold, wanted to take out his gold and was just refused on the basis of directives from the central bank. They told him the amount was in excess of 200,000 Swiss francs and the central bank had instructed them not to do it because it has to do with anti-terrorism and anti-money laundering precautions.". Sorry, that excuse does not hold water.

In the aftermath of last week's paper price smash, demand for gold in the markets in the world that REQUIRE physical delivery has gone parabolic. The real problem is that physical delivery on the Comex is not required. There's a force majeur clause in Comex contracts that states contracts can be settled in cash if necessary.

The crux of the problem for the Too Big To Fail/Prosecute Banks is that amount of paper gold outstanding in the world - including OTC derivatives - is somewhere between 50 and 100 times amount of actual physical gold/silver that can be delivered. If enough counterparties stand for delivery, the global physical bullion market will freeze up - prices will go beyond parabolic.

This brings me back to the issue of why the U.S. will require seven years - at least - to return 300 of the 1800 tons of German gold being held - allegedly - in the basement of the NY Fed. 300 tons. Supposedly 100's of tons were sold on Monday. GLD has liquidated several hundred tons since January. And yet, the U.S. can't produce Germany's gold on demand.

I'll leave off with a comment from a recent interview with Kyle Bass - manager of the Texas State Teachers retirement fund - who recently took physical delivery of roughly 19 tons of gold bullion being held on behalf of the pension fund:

Open interest in gold futures and options traded on the Comex typically exceeds supplies held in its warehouses. If the holders of just 5 percent of those contracts opted to take delivery of the metal, there wouldn’t be enough to cover the demand. If you own a paper contract where they can only deliver you 10 cents on the dollar or less, you should probably convert it to physical,” said Bass.

The average U.S. investor is starting to understand the difference between buying gold/silver for physical delivery and owning a paper surrogate like GLD or SLV. That would explain why the recent price take down stimulated an unprecedented amount of demand and shortages for U.S. mint 1 oz silver eagles and other silver products. It also means that the end game for paper derivative gold and silver has started and the price take down on the Comex we just witnessed is one giant bluff by bullion banks who have nothing in their hand but crappy paper cards.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

George, please take note also that he states usa is not storing 300 tons of German Gold but rather 1800 Tons of German Gold. - J.

 

[georgephillip]

George, please take note also that he states usa is not storing 300 tons of German Gold but rather 1800 Tons of German Gold. - J.

I'm out of my depth here, Jeri, but there have been two times in my 66 years when everyone I knew was paying minute by minute attention to things political. The latest was 911 and the first was in October of 1962

I strongly suspect the next time we are all paying attention to the same thing at the same time it will be the global economy, and that will Really Change Everything for a very long time.

US DOLLAR COLLAPSE

"In last month’s Gold Letter, I wrote about the three pillars supporting the US Treasury’s persistently low interest rates: the Fed, domestic investors, and foreign central banks – led by Japan. I examined how Japan’s plans to radically devalue the yen may undermine that country’s ability to continue buying Treasuries, which could cause the other pillars to become unstable as well.

"While private investors and even the Fed might be deluding themselves into believing US bonds are still a viable investment, Germany’s repatriation news makes it clear that foreign governments are no longer buying the propaganda. And why should they? If anyone should appreciate the real constraints the US government is facing, it is other governments."

 

[sjay]

"Some readers have said “don’t bet against the ]

Imo? Greater than our imaginations can fathom. ETF's ( electronic transfer funds ) are no more valuable today than a dollar would be when crash comes.QUOTE]

Jeremiah pretends to have knowledge of economics and then calls etfs electronic transfer funds.ever hear of exchange traded funds,PRICELESS.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

George, please take note also that he states usa is not storing 300 tons of German Gold but rather 1800 Tons of German Gold. - J.

I'm out of my depth here, Jeri, but there have been two times in my 66 years when everyone I knew was paying minute by minute attention to things political. The latest was 911 and the first was in October of 1962

I strongly suspect the next time we are all paying attention to the same thing at the same time it will be the global economy, and that will Really Change Everything for a very long time.

US DOLLAR COLLAPSE

"In last month’s Gold Letter, I wrote about the three pillars supporting the US Treasury’s persistently low interest rates: the Fed, domestic investors, and foreign central banks – led by Japan. I examined how Japan’s plans to radically devalue the yen may undermine that country’s ability to continue buying Treasuries, which could cause the other pillars to become unstable as well.

"While private investors and even the Fed might be deluding themselves into believing US bonds are still a viable investment, Germany’s repatriation news makes it clear that foreign governments are no longer buying the propaganda. And why should they? If anyone should appreciate the real constraints the US government is facing, it is other governments."

If you are 66 yrs old, George, I have a great idea for you. I'm doing it myself. Invest in a metal detector that detects gold and silver. You could start off small. Go to your local beaches, anywhere people gather and use it. You'll be amazed how much gold and silver you'll find over time. Keep saving it in jars and store it at an offsite location you feel comfortable with. Take some of your profits and invest in a more expensive detector and get one that detects in water - also - to increase your earnings.

My Uncle Bernie did this as a hobby. He had jars full of silver and gold coins, jewelry, diamond rings, other precious stones - he finally moved everything and has it safely stored but for years he just filled up jars and stored them in the cellar. People may laugh and think I'm silly for my metal detector idea but it worked for him and I know he must be sitting on a pretty penny now.

Taking up metal detecting as a hobby is a great idea for single parents with children, families on a budget that might not otherwise think there is ever an opportune time to invest in gold or silver and would be able to have some to put away. Consider this: When Zimbabwe dollar crashed a wheel barrow full of money could not buy a loaf of bread. But a gold coin? Just one gold coin could buy you a nice home in Zimbabwe during that same time. - Jeri

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

First a brief bio of the conservative who's making the charge of a criminal conspiracy to rig the gold and silver markets:

"Paul Craig Roberts (born April 3, 1939) is an American economist and a columnist for Creators Syndicate. He served as an Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration and was noted as a co-founder of Reaganomics.[1] He is a former editor and columnist for the Wall Street Journal, Business Week, and Scripps Howard News Service. He has testified before congressional committees on 30 occasions on issues of economic policy."

This is where Robert's allegation begins:

"My explanation that the sudden appearance of an unprecedented 400 ton short sale of gold on the COMEX in April was a manipulation designed to protect the dollar from the Federal Reserve’s quantitative easing policy has found acceptance among gold investors and hedge fund managers.

"The sale was a naked short.

"The seller had no gold to sell.

"COMEX reported having gold only equal to about half of the short sale in its vaults, and not all of that was available for delivery. No one but the Federal Reserve could have placed such an order, and the order came from one of the Fed’s bullion banks, one of the entities 'too big to fail.'”

As one unschooled in the dismal science, my first question would be: is Roberts correct to call this particular sale a "naked short?" My second concerns his allegation that "only the Fed could have placed such an order?"

Gangster State America. ?Naked Short? in the Gold Market | Global Research

"Again we see that institutions of the US government are acting 100% against the interests of US citizens. Just who does the US government represent?"

That's my big question.

"The sale was a naked short.

"The seller had no gold to sell.

Naked short is a term better used when discussing the stock market.
It means you sell the stock without already owning it and without first borrowing it, like you should, like you must, when you sell short.

When you sell a futures contract, you're just selling short.
Most speculators in the futures market that think something will drop in price will sell a futures contract. They don't need to own the gold, oil, soybeans, whatever, before they sell.
They don't need to borrow the gold, oil, soybeans, whatever, in order to legally sell short, unlike the scenario I described about stock.
Anyone who has enough margin on deposit could enter a similar order, long or short, without it being a plot by the Fed (or JP Morgan acting for the Fed).

Paul can't be taken seriously anymore, he's gone around the bend.
A few eggs short (not naked short) of an omelet, if you know what I mean.

What would you estimate the chances are of the US dollar losing its reserve currency status?

Depends on how fast we increase the debt and increase stupid regulations.
Legalizing 10 million poor illegals won't help either.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

"Some readers have said “don’t bet against the ]

Imo? Greater than our imaginations can fathom. ETF's ( electronic transfer funds ) are no more valuable today than a dollar would be when crash comes.QUOTE]

Jeremiah pretends to have knowledge of economics and then calls etfs electronic transfer funds.ever hear of exchange traded funds,PRICELESS.

I am not pretending to know anything but I do know that my friend advises getting out of the market completely. So if you are a trader? The word is out and most likely why you are trying to insult me here. As to ETF's I spoke with the partner of Midas Gold last year and he was talking to me about ETF's, I thought he was tlaking about electronic transfer funds - so thanks for the information! Much appreciated.

As to my friends email I posted here for the benefit of George - I notice you didn't have any comment on that. Perhaps this is your line of work and you fear losing business? If it is? You should. - Jeri

 

[georgephillip]

Here's another pretty good account of a different facet of our Gangster Economy:

"The base argument made here and by (many) others is capitalism is a system of economic aggregation. Finance capitalism is a particular form of economic aggregation.

"Capitalists argue this aggregation is ‘capital formation’ and a good thing because it facilitates investment that leads to economic growth.

"The paradox long recognized is that without being managed, as in the broader institutional context of Mr. Keynes’ economic policies 1945 – 1980, capitalism cooks its own goose—economic concentration leads to political-economic instability.

"Recent historical evidence has it that when capitalism was managed 1945 – 1980 it was stable and in the time it hasn’t been managed 1980 – present it hasn’t been stable."

In the Time Between Crises » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

Someone I read recently linked the periods of financial instability to the tax rates paid by the wealthy. Whenever the rate drops below 50% of income, the rich begin to speculate while expecting the nanny state to bail them out whenever their bets go bad.

Jus' sayin.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

"Recent historical evidence has it that when capitalism was managed 1945 – 1980 it was stable and in the time it hasn’t been managed 1980 – present it hasn’t been stable."

of course thats perfectly 100% stupid and liberal. At the time of the recent housing bubble crash the Fed and Fanny/Freddie were "managing" the money supply to create a bubble!! To say more government management is needed is exactly like saying the soviet system needed more government management. Everyone should know by now what are Founders knew, i.e., that liberal bureaucrats are monopolistic bunglers.

"Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want for bread."-Thomas Jefferson

 

[georgephillip]

"Recent historical evidence has it that when capitalism was managed 1945 – 1980 it was stable and in the time it hasn’t been managed 1980 – present it hasn’t been stable."

of course thats perfectly 100% stupid and liberal. At the time of the recent housing bubble crash the Fed and Fanny/Freddie were "managing" the money supply to create a bubble!! To say more government management is needed is exactly like saying the soviet system needed more government management. Everyone should know by now what are Founders knew, i.e., that liberal bureaucrats are monopolistic bunglers.

"Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want for bread."-Thomas Jefferson

Eb...do you think Republicans and Democrats serving the interests of the richest 1% of voters and their Wall Street brokers over managed the OTC derivatives markets?

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
Thomas Jefferson

 

[georgephillip]

Imo? Greater than our imaginations can fathom. ETF's ( electronic transfer funds ) are no more valuable today than a dollar would be when crash comes.QUOTE]

Jeremiah pretends to have knowledge of economics and then calls etfs electronic transfer funds.ever hear of exchange traded funds,PRICELESS.

I am not pretending to know anything but I do know that my friend advises getting out of the market completely. So if you are a trader? The word is out and most likely why you are trying to insult me here. As to ETF's I spoke with the partner of Midas Gold last year and he was talking to me about ETF's, I thought he was tlaking about electronic transfer funds - so thanks for the information! Much appreciated.

As to my friends email I posted here for the benefit of George - I notice you didn't have any comment on that. Perhaps this is your line of work and you fear losing business? If it is? You should. - Jeri

Speaking of Midas...here's a little background on how the US came into possession of so much of the worlds gold in the first place; would you be surprised to learn the human cost totaled 37 million casualties including 16 million dead?

"One consequence of the destructive European War of 1914-1918 had been the unprecedented transfer of Europe's gold reserves out of Europe's central banks and into the vaults of the Federal Reserve, as debt-strapped European belligerents, from England to France to Italy and beyond, were forced to pay for American manufactured war supplies in gold.

"By the time the Treaty of Versailles was signed, the United States had become the possessor of the vast bulk of the world's monetary gold, a 400% increase in US gold reserves since the prewar period. Until the 1914 outbreak of war, gold had been the basis of the international monetary system, a system that had been centered in the City of London since the Napoleonic Wars.

"By 1920, however, the United States Federal Reserve had accumulated 40% of the world's monetary gold reserves. It had garnered the gold by being able to pay the world's highest price for monetary gold at a time Britain and Continental Europe were burdened with America's severe war reparations and war debt repayment obligations pursuant to Versailles.

"Montagu Norman, the arch conservative governor of the Bank of England throughout the 1920s ... supported the aims of finance capitalism 'to create a world system of financial control in private hands, able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole.'"

Rival Empires, New Deal, War and Peace Studies, War, End of Pax Britannica, A-Bomb excerpted from the book Gods of Money Wall Street and the Death of the American Century by F. William Engdahl

 

[editec]

I share you concerns about this issue.

If one has access to unlimited FIAT dollars, one could easily (and really for not all that much money, either) repress the price of gold using NAKED Gold contracts.

This would be ESPECIALLY easy if one was using cutouts both as buyers, sellers AND the commodites brokers involved in these contracts, too.

What's a investor to do?

Other than preparing for swells coming from every possible direction (read: diversification) I see no rational approach to protecting one's wealth.


If my most parnoic fears are founded in reality, there is NO MARKET, that cannot be thus manipulated -- not stocks, not commodities, not bonds, not arbitraging currencies, either.

Outsider investors are at the mercy of INSIDERS, folks.

There really is no getting around that sad fact.

And it would seem the insiders own the levers of government?

I have to assume that they have access to money they can afford to burn to distort the market, George. Now whether they are using their own money, or they arer getting it from the FED (or its owners) obviously I can not say.

I am, after all, not an INSIDER.

I also have to assume that they have enough influence in the SEC to get away with this, too.

My one question, one that I cannot even intuit with any degree of confidence is the END GAME they are working toward.

Are they simply propping up the USD (and other curencies) by making the price of gold lower?

If so why bother?

The machinations behind this are mostly hidden from us, their motives are even better hidden, but the methodology needed to manipulate the markets through FUTURES does seem pretty clear.

What I think is really going on is this

If money is a thing that can be created out of nothing, then MONEY really ceases to be THE GOAL of the masters.

Money is much more important to those of us for whom it is REAL, than for the masters of money who can create it AT WILL.

So whatever is going on, isn't really about amassing piles of cash, it is about maintaining power (or accuing still more) using this FIAT thing that we call money.

You see where I am headed with this, George?

I suspect you do and I suspect you already had similar suspicions, yourself.

It is NOT about the money

It is about the power CONTROLLING the money gives them.

And SINCE a REAL market for GOLD is the only real threat to the manipulators of money, they are setting out to destroy that potential challenger to the specie. If they can make GOLD something that people cannot trust in leiu of money, then they CONTROL the only currency that matters. (there's their motive for destroying this market, I'm guessing)

 

[editec]

"Some readers have said “don’t bet against the Federal Reserve; the manipulation can go on forever.” But can it? As the ETFs such as GLD are drained of gold, their ability to cover any of their obligations to investors diminishes. In my opinion, these ETFs are like a fractional reserve banking system. The claims on gold exceed the amount of gold in the trusts. When the ETFs are looted of their gold by the banksters, the gold price will explode, as the claims on gold will greatly exceed the supply."

Do you see an impending financial collapse on the scale of 2008 or larger?

Gangster State America. ?Naked Short? in the Gold Market | Global Research

I do not think it matters to the INSIDERS IF one day the futures contracts agents cannot fulfill demands for gold deliveries, George.

Because part of their future contracts absolves them from having to produce that gold that was contracted should everybody with a contract demand to take physical possession of it.

They can practically say "never mind" here's your money back", and get away with it.

This is preposterous, of course, but that's the way the commodities brokerage houses have protected themselves and by doing so they have made it possible for people to buy and sell futures on gold that does NOT exist.

Its nearly impossible to discuss this event rationally (in a way that makes sense when written down) because we are really talking about FANTASY MARKETS in the first place.

 

[georgephillip]

"Some readers have said “don’t bet against the Federal Reserve; the manipulation can go on forever.” But can it? As the ETFs such as GLD are drained of gold, their ability to cover any of their obligations to investors diminishes. In my opinion, these ETFs are like a fractional reserve banking system. The claims on gold exceed the amount of gold in the trusts. When the ETFs are looted of their gold by the banksters, the gold price will explode, as the claims on gold will greatly exceed the supply."

Do you see an impending financial collapse on the scale of 2008 or larger?

Gangster State America. ?Naked Short? in the Gold Market | Global Research

I do not think it matters to the INSIDERS IF one day the futures contracts agents cannot fulfill demands for gold deliveries, George.

Because part of their future contracts absolves them from having to produce that gold that was contracted should everybody with a contract demand to take physical possession of it.

They can practically say "never mind" here's your money back", and get away with it.

This is preposterous, of course, but that's the way the commodities brokerage houses have protected themselves and by doing so they have made it possible for people to buy and sell futures on gold that does NOT exist.

Its nearly impossible to discuss this event rationally (in a way that makes sense when written down) because we are really talking about FANTASY MARKETS in the first place.

You brought up the topics of END GAMES and the power the masters obtain by CONTROLLING the money in your previous post. Maybe that's what Montague Norman among many others have been striving for over the last four centuries.

"Montagu Norman, the arch conservative governor of the Bank of England throughout the 1920s ... supported the aims of finance capitalism "to create a world system of financial control in private hands, able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole.

Is there a specie of sociopath among us who feel entitled to murder millions of human beings in the War to End All Wars simply "to create a world system of financial control in private hands, able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole"?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

"Some readers have said “don’t bet against the Federal Reserve; the manipulation can go on forever.” But can it? As the ETFs such as GLD are drained of gold, their ability to cover any of their obligations to investors diminishes. In my opinion, these ETFs are like a fractional reserve banking system. The claims on gold exceed the amount of gold in the trusts. When the ETFs are looted of their gold by the banksters, the gold price will explode, as the claims on gold will greatly exceed the supply."

Do you see an impending financial collapse on the scale of 2008 or larger?

Gangster State America. ?Naked Short? in the Gold Market | Global Research

I do not think it matters to the INSIDERS IF one day the futures contracts agents cannot fulfill demands for gold deliveries, George.

Because part of their future contracts absolves them from having to produce that gold that was contracted should everybody with a contract demand to take physical possession of it.

They can practically say "never mind" here's your money back", and get away with it.

This is preposterous, of course, but that's the way the commodities brokerage houses have protected themselves and by doing so they have made it possible for people to buy and sell futures on gold that does NOT exist.

Its nearly impossible to discuss this event rationally (in a way that makes sense when written down) because we are really talking about FANTASY MARKETS in the first place.

Because part of their future contracts

He was talking about ETFs. Do you understand the difference between futures contracts and ETFs? Does he?

 

[georgephillip]

"Some readers have said “don’t bet against the Federal Reserve; the manipulation can go on forever.” But can it? As the ETFs such as GLD are drained of gold, their ability to cover any of their obligations to investors diminishes. In my opinion, these ETFs are like a fractional reserve banking system. The claims on gold exceed the amount of gold in the trusts. When the ETFs are looted of their gold by the banksters, the gold price will explode, as the claims on gold will greatly exceed the supply."

Do you see an impending financial collapse on the scale of 2008 or larger?

Gangster State America. ?Naked Short? in the Gold Market | Global Research

I do not think it matters to the INSIDERS IF one day the futures contracts agents cannot fulfill demands for gold deliveries, George.

Because part of their future contracts absolves them from having to produce that gold that was contracted should everybody with a contract demand to take physical possession of it.

They can practically say "never mind" here's your money back", and get away with it.

This is preposterous, of course, but that's the way the commodities brokerage houses have protected themselves and by doing so they have made it possible for people to buy and sell futures on gold that does NOT exist.

Its nearly impossible to discuss this event rationally (in a way that makes sense when written down) because we are really talking about FANTASY MARKETS in the first place.

Because part of their future contracts

He was talking about ETFs. Do you understand the difference between futures contracts and ETFs? Does he?

Todd...what happens if everyone with a contract demands to take physical possession of their gold at the same time? Would the banksters get away with simply returning the buyers' money instead of bullion?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I do not think it matters to the INSIDERS IF one day the futures contracts agents cannot fulfill demands for gold deliveries, George.

Because part of their future contracts absolves them from having to produce that gold that was contracted should everybody with a contract demand to take physical possession of it.

They can practically say "never mind" here's your money back", and get away with it.

This is preposterous, of course, but that's the way the commodities brokerage houses have protected themselves and by doing so they have made it possible for people to buy and sell futures on gold that does NOT exist.

Its nearly impossible to discuss this event rationally (in a way that makes sense when written down) because we are really talking about FANTASY MARKETS in the first place.

Because part of their future contracts

He was talking about ETFs. Do you understand the difference between futures contracts and ETFs? Does he?

Todd...what happens if everyone with a contract demands to take physical possession of their gold at the same time? Would the banksters get away with simply returning the buyers' money instead of bullion?

1) with a futures contract you cant take possession now, just in the future

2) everyone cant demand at same time since it is done on first come first serve basis. Thus if everyone did try to sell at about the same time the price would be dropping like a rock and so discouraging everyone from following through and selling at a huge loss.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I do not think it matters to the INSIDERS IF one day the futures contracts agents cannot fulfill demands for gold deliveries, George.

Because part of their future contracts absolves them from having to produce that gold that was contracted should everybody with a contract demand to take physical possession of it.

They can practically say "never mind" here's your money back", and get away with it.

This is preposterous, of course, but that's the way the commodities brokerage houses have protected themselves and by doing so they have made it possible for people to buy and sell futures on gold that does NOT exist.

Its nearly impossible to discuss this event rationally (in a way that makes sense when written down) because we are really talking about FANTASY MARKETS in the first place.

Because part of their future contracts

He was talking about ETFs. Do you understand the difference between futures contracts and ETFs? Does he?

Todd...what happens if everyone with a contract demands to take physical possession of their gold at the same time? Would the banksters get away with simply returning the buyers' money instead of bullion?

what happens if everyone with a contract demands to take physical possession of their gold at the same time?

Then the people who were short the gold futures would have to deliver gold.

What does that have to do with the gold ETFs you were talking about?

Would the banksters get away with simply returning the buyers' money instead of bullion?

Banksters? You mean the speculators, some of whom are mom and pop type investors?

I guess if you're really interested, you should look up the contract specifications on whichever exchange you are interested in. Be careful, you might learn something and make more sense the next time you post on the topic.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Because part of their future contracts

He was talking about ETFs. Do you understand the difference between futures contracts and ETFs? Does he?

Todd...what happens if everyone with a contract demands to take physical possession of their gold at the same time? Would the banksters get away with simply returning the buyers' money instead of bullion?

what happens if everyone with a contract demands to take physical possession of their gold at the same time?

Then the people who were short the gold futures would have to deliver gold.

What does that have to do with the gold ETFs you were talking about?

Would the banksters get away with simply returning the buyers' money instead of bullion?

Banksters? You mean the speculators, some of whom are mom and pop type investors?

I guess if you're really interested, you should look up the contract specifications on whichever exchange you are interested in. Be careful, you might learn something and make more sense the next time you post on the topic.

George is Rdean I suspect.