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Bully, you will do well if you avoid repeating Nazi propaganda. The Nazis were extremely anti-Christian but used Christian symbolism to appeal to the masses alone.
Hitler and his band of followers, especially Heinrich Himmler, were pagans. Their goal was the eventual widespread practice of the ancient pagan religion of the Germans. Himmler adopted the "SS" logo, which looks like two lighting bolts or two letter "S"s together.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sig_Rune
In fact they are runes that Himmler believed to have magical powers. Recruits in the SS were repeatedly told that Christianity was a religion of weakness and that Jesus was the bastard son of a Jewish whore (referring to the Virgin Mary). This all went on with Hitler's knowledge and approval. Furthermore, priests and ministers who did not tow the party line were thrown in concentration camps, tortured and killed. The implication that the Nazis were in league with far right Christians is an insult the memory to those Christians who died for their faith and fighting Nazi tyranny.
Furthermore, before Heinrich Himmler, was Ernest Rohm, the founder of the SA from which the SS was derived, and openly homosexual. Hitler knew Rohm was gay, and did not care. Many members of the SA were also gay and Hitler knew that, too. To further say that Nazi elite were somehow anti-homosexual in light of this is yet another lie. In my opinion,the Nazis had an anti-gay position solely for public consumption.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Röhm
The fact that homosexuals were thrown into concentration camps does not necessarily mean that they were there because of their sexual orientation. The number of homosexuals that died in the concentration camps numbers about 6 to 10,000. More likely those people were there for reasons other than for being gay, more likely political reasons. They were "outted" to further humiliate them. If the Nazis really had a thing for gays, they would have killed millions of them.
Oh Shit,
OCA throws articles by such well known conservative backed(sarcasm) reporting as the NEW YORK TIMES, THE BBC and THE GUIDE at Dr. Grump's challenge for him to come up with some facts to back up his assertions about the silly Gay gene theory.......ouch! Watch for Dr. Grump to focus on the one report from an article in a religious based publication to try to "poo poo" the whole idea that the gay gene is based on extremely faulty fake science that has been repeated so many times since the 80s that in many circles it is presumed to be fact.
Just as the seriously kicking of his ass that Karl gave to Bully in the previous post it would appear that OCA has also opened the proverbial can of whoop ass on Dr. Grump..... this is probably about the time Jillian will come in to try to distract the carnage with some silly misdirecting statement that will not hold even a teaspoon of water......let's all watch, this should be fun.
.Experts in behavioral genetics say the new report, which appears in the journal Science, does not invalidate the notion that genes influence sexual orientation, which many scientists believe is the case, on the basis of other types of studies. Nor do the new results completely rule out the possibility that a gene or genes for homosexuality lie on the chromosome in question, the X-chromosome.
However, both the studies targeted only one part of the X chromosome. The authors of the new study say that: "These results do not preclude the possibility of detectable gene effects elsewhere in the genome
Glad you got it all figured out, dear. :tongue1:
From the NY Times article:
.
From the BBC article:
So you were saying?
Watch for Dr. Grump to focus on the one report from an article in a religious based publication to try to "poo poo" the whole idea that the gay gene is based on extremely faulty fake science that has been repeated so many times since the 80s that in many circles it is presumed to be fact.
From your first link:
Underscoring the difficulty scientists face in finding genes that underlie complex human behaviors, a team of researchers are reporting Friday that they have been unable to confirm a widely publicized study linking male homosexuality to a small region of one chromosome.
Experts in behavioral genetics say the new report, which appears in the journal Science, does not invalidate the notion that genes influence sexual orientation, which many scientists believe is the case, on the basis of other types of studies. Nor do the new results completely rule out the possibility that a gene or genes for homosexuality lie on the chromosome in question, the X-chromosome.
From you second link:
However, both the studies targeted only one part of the X chromosome. The authors of the new study say that: "These results do not preclude the possibility of detectable gene effects elsewhere in the genome."
Your third link is nothing is a Canadian Christian site with an agenda. The link doesn't prove anything other than the author's cherry picked peoples' studies.
Your fourth link is from a gay magazine questioning the validity of a study. More like an op-ed piece. However, even if these studies are proven invaild (which they haven't been in any of your links)- they are only one or two studies. That doesn't mean it will not be proven at a later date. In other words, so what?
Finally, I reiterate, even if homos are homo by choice, why do you care? How does it affect you? Hint: It doesn't...
Finally, I reiterate, even if homos are homo by choice, why do you care? How does it affect you? Hint: It doesn't...
Bully, you will do well if you avoid repeating Nazi propaganda. The Nazis were extremely anti-Christian but used Christian symbolism to appeal to the masses alone.
How is it different from Left wing politicians who wrap themselves in a cloak of self righteousness while furthering their own political ends?Indeed, they did use Christian symbolism. But how is that any different from the right-wing politicians, here and now, who wrap themselves in the symbolism of Christianity to further their own political ends? It isn't. The symbolism of religion is no more than a means to an end for them, and for such authoritarian, despot wannabes no more justification than that is needed.
It starts with the demonization of one group, homosexuals in this case. It then spreads, like a virulent poison, to the demonization of any who even question their motives. It's a slippery slope that it's not to late to avoid.
How is it different from Left wing politicians who wrap themselves in a cloak of self righteousness while furthering their own political ends?
It starts with the demonization of a group, like Christians, then spreads until they get blamed for any who question the motives of the Left and their agenda. It's a slippery slope that is not too late to avoid.....
Like Nero, Diocletian and others....
Perhaps you ought to worry about the fascism that exists in a real form today rather than the fascism that may never materialize. We are fighting a war now. It's pretty obvious that there are fascistic elements that want to take our freedoms, our lives and our way of life away. They are the ones we're fighting in the Middle East and on trans-Atlantic flights. Hate to switch the subject, but since you're talking "fascism" I believe it's apropos.
Gays are out in the open, they have their own TV shows, they run corporations, they are pop stars with millions of fans, they have the political wherewithal to convince Congress and the President to spend $15 billion dollars on AIDS, they've convinced the judiciary of at least one state to legalize gay marriage, corporations are giving them partner benefits, a major political party includes them in their policy making decisions.... I fail to see how they're a persecuted minority.I'm sorry, but with a self-proclaimed evangelical Christian sitting in the Oval Office, and most of the GOP congressional leadership at least paying lip service to the power brokers of America's religious right, the claims of persecuted Christians is empty.
Oh boy....... there is a thing called the Patriot Act that is helping to prevent catastrophes like 9/11 from happening. It's what you and I don't see and don't know about that is stopping the Islamofascists from killing innocent people. And no thanks to the left. They've done quite a bit to make the war on terror and should I say the war against Fascism more difficult. You talk about fighting fascism, I'm telling you were are already at war with it. You say that maybe, someday the religious right is going to take our freedoms away, I say that there is a real force out there right now working to take them away and they are Islamists.As for the "war", it seems that good police work and international intelligence co-operation did more to thwart this airliner plot than any military action yet initiated by Chimpy's administration. And those are the appropriate tools to use against terrorism, not the blunt tool of military force.
No Bully, the 700 Club isn't planing to blow up planes, Jimmy Swaggart didn't flatten the World Trade Center, Jerry Falwell isn't trying to build a nuclear bomb. I think that you're so focused on the spot on the sofa that you neglect to notice that there's a 800 pound gorilla in your living room.And yes, we do need to worry about, "...fascistic elements that want to take our freedoms, our lives and our way of life away...", but they are not over seas. They are here...now...in America's halls of power. They will use the threat of Islamic, or any other, terrorism as a tool to secure their grip on power.
And his partner in crime, Josef Goebbels, once said that a lie repeated often enough is eventually take to be true. That's what the Left does very well, repeat lies over and over again. Like the days of the Cold War, "The Rosenbergs are innocent" (they weren't), "Joe McCarthy scared everyone into thinking there was a communist threat" (there was), "Alger Hiss was framed" (he was on Stalin's payroll). And today, it's the same old thing, all over again...... "There isn't a terrorist threat", "War for Oil", "Bush lied, and people died", "Haliburton"....<blockquote>"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials </blockquote>
Gays are out in the open, they have their own TV shows, they run corporations, they are pop stars with millions of fans, they have the political wherewithal to convince Congress and the President to spend $15 billion dollars on AIDS, they've convinced the judiciary of at least one state to legalize gay marriage, corporations are giving them partner benefits, a major political party includes them in their policy making decisions.... I fail to see how they're a persecuted minority.
Most people oppose gay marriage, and not because of a conspiracy by the so called "religious right".... it cuts across religious, social and political lines. I know Muslims, Protestants, Catholics, Republicans, Democrats, well to do and poor that oppose gay marriage, and it isn't because they watch "700 Club". Many states have banned gay marriage and Bush and this so called religious right (whoever they are) had nothing to do with it.
Oh boy....... there is a thing called the Patriot Act that is helping to prevent catastrophes like 9/11 from happening. It's what you and I don't see and don't know about that is stopping the Islamofascists from killing innocent people. And no thanks to the left. They've done quite a bit to make the war on terror and should I say the war against Fascism more difficult. You talk about fighting fascism, I'm telling you were are already at war with it. You say that maybe, someday the religious right is going to take our freedoms away, I say that there is a real force out there right now working to take them away and they are Islamists.
No Bully, the 700 Club isn't planing to blow up planes, Jimmy Swaggart didn't flatten the World Trade Center, Jerry Falwell isn't trying to build a nuclear bomb. I think that you're so focused on the spot on the sofa that you neglect to notice that there's a 800 pound gorilla in your living room.
And his partner in crime, Josef Goebbels, once said that a lie repeated often enough is eventually take to be true. That's what the Left does very well, repeat lies over and over again. Like the days of the Cold War, "The Rosenbergs are innocent" (they weren't), "Joe McCarthy scared everyone into thinking there was a communist threat" (there was), "Alger Hiss was framed" (he was on Stalin's payroll). And today, it's the same old thing, all over again...... "There isn't a terrorist threat", "War for Oil", "Bush lied, and people died", "Haliburton"....
In most states, same-gender couples cannot make decisions regarding health care for their partners...In Ohio, state employees cannot get healthcare for their partners or their children...Long estranged family members can, and do, successfully challenge the estates of gay family members, seize and sell property, challenge child custody arrangements, bar partners from the hospital bedside or graveside. Were we speaking of a distinct racial minority, rather than homosexuals, there would be no question at all of discrimination. But since homosexuality cuts across racial, ethnic and religious lines people, at least those who worry about such things, are worried that they might be somehow "corrupted" by a gay neighbor.
Gay marriage is simply a target for those who feel that their own relationships and marriages are collapsing around them. No surprise that this is seen in so-called "red-states" where moral values are paramount. Never mind that these states have higher rates, on average of divorce and marital infidelity than the supposed moral cesspools that are the "blue-states". BTW, Massachussetts, which permits same -gender marriages, has the lowest divorce rate.
Ethnic minority groups have no choice in what they are born as, they are what they are, there is no evidence that homosexuals are born the way they are.........so you want us to make special laws based on the choices people make in life be it bad or good? And yes the evidence is ABSOLUTELY OVERWHELMING that homosexuality is a bad lifestyle choice, you've seen it so don't deny it. Blood should always trump somebody's butt buddy in life's important matters and decisions, these laws are just and proper.
Divorce rates are of no importance in this discussion, I wouldn't care if rates were 100% as long as its between a man and a woman. Right is right on this topic.
In most states, same-gender couples cannot make decisions regarding health care for their partners...In Ohio, state employees cannot get healthcare for their partners or their children...Long estranged family members can, and do, successfully challenge the estates of gay family members, seize and sell property, challenge child custody arrangements, bar partners from the hospital bedside or graveside. Were we speaking of a distinct racial minority, rather than homosexuals, there would be no question at all of discrimination. But since homosexuality cuts across racial, ethnic and religious lines people, at least those who worry about such things, are worried that they might be somehow "corrupted" by a gay neighbor.
Gay marriage is simply a target for those who feel that their own relationships and marriages are collapsing around them. No surprise that this is seen in so-called "red-states" where moral values are paramount. Never mind that these states have higher rates, on average of divorce and marital infidelity than the supposed moral cesspools that are the "blue-states". BTW, Massachussetts, which permits same -gender marriages, has the lowest divorce rate.
The Patriot Act was passed by Congress, and was renewed by Congress yet again. If Bush wanted a power grab, he could have taken the Constitutionally authorized path, declared martial law, suspended the writ of habeus corpus and that would be that. Warantless sneak and peek searches are constitutional so long as the primary focus of the search is for the gathering of intelligence on foreign agents and not trying to prosecute someone for a crime. They've been around since the beginning of the Republic. FISA, the law you're probably referring to, was passed during the Carter administration. The NSA has been in existence since the early 1950s or late 1940s.The mis-named "PATRIOT Act" is little more than a tool for broadening presidential power and undermining the Constituion. It's one thing to free the flow of intel between intelligence agencies and law enforcement agencies. It's quite another to allow warrantless sneek-and-peek searches of homes and businesses without the knowledge of their residents or owners. We're not fighting fascism abroad...America is fighting terrorism sponsored by despots shrouding themselves in the garment of Islam.
Oh that IS diabolical! Shame on those people for exercising their constitutionally protected rights to participate in the political process!!!!! Bully, the LEFT does these things, too. Would you feel better if we just had a socialist dictatorship... it seems as if that is where your argument leads.No, they aren't. Their tools are more prosaic...grassroots organizing...vetting political candidates on local, state and national levels...fear-mongering...creating enemies where none exist in order to justify their anger and angst.
Oh my... here we go... Valerie Plame.... you'd think this woman was the head of NORAD, had the all the launch codes for the nuclear missiles, was the director of intelligence... she was a desk jockey! A three year investigation of her outing showed no involvement by the Administration, except for one person who revealed her name to the press and that person is being held responsible.As for building nuclear weapons, that would be less an issue if Chimpy hadn't cut funding for securing nuclear materials around the world. His Administration also hamstrung non-proliferation efforts when their outing of Valerie Plame led the CIA to roll up of the front operation of Brewster Jennings and Associates, which worked on limiting the spread of nuclear materials.
If Bush lied, then so did all the intelligence agencies around the world when it came to assessing Saddam Hussein's WMD capabilities. The "war of aggression" was against a regime that repeatedly broke UN resolutions. The "Bush lied" line is itself a lie.... get over it.Look to the Chimpy and Co. for the lies that have led America to where she is today. Lied into a war of aggression...with no end in sight...creating the terrorist training ground which is now Iraq. They've lied so often and so long that they believe their own lies.
Ever hear of durable power of attorney? It's a legal declaration which allows the designee to make decisions for the authorizing party even if the authorizing party has become incapacitated. Since homosexuals can easily utilize a durable power of attorney, the claim that homosexual marriage requires 14th Ammendment protection is nonsense.In most states, same-gender couples cannot make decisions regarding health care for their partners...In Ohio, state employees cannot get healthcare for their partners or their children...Long estranged family members can, and do, successfully challenge the estates of gay family members, seize and sell property, challenge child custody arrangements, bar partners from the hospital bedside or graveside. Were we speaking of a distinct racial minority, rather than homosexuals, there would be no question at all of discrimination. But since homosexuality cuts across racial, ethnic and religious lines people, at least those who worry about such things, are worried that they might be somehow "corrupted" by a gay neighbor.
Why don't you show us the citations which support this statement? Could it be perhaps, that you know full well that the study shows that family finances are the primary reason that most marriages fail? Might it be that you know that you are reaching to try to say that homosexuals have more stable relationships than heterosexuals? I'd say so. This is typical of the librulls in America - take the results of a study and try to surreptitously claim the study validates an unrelated fact. But hey! Present your citations of evidence, and I'll take them on directly.Gay marriage is simply a target for those who feel that their own relationships and marriages are collapsing around them. No surprise that this is seen in so-called "red-states" where moral values are paramount. Never mind that these states have higher rates, on average of divorce and marital infidelity than the supposed moral cesspools that are the "blue-states". BTW, Massachussetts, which permits same -gender marriages, has the lowest divorce rate.
Still holding onto your Fitzmas dreams, eh? Tell ya what, since you already have the facts, perhaps you should volunteer to help Patrick Fitzgerald do his job. As to the first part of your statement, I'd be interested in knowing how you arrive at the conclusion that GWB cut funding for intelligence related to nuclear-proliferation. If you have facts to back up your statements of course.As for building nuclear weapons, that would be less an issue if Chimpy hadn't cut funding for securing nuclear materials around the world. His Administration also hamstrung non-proliferation efforts when their outing of Valerie Plame led the CIA to roll up of the front operation of Brewster Jennings and Associates, which worked on limiting the spread of nuclear materials.
Ever hear of durable power of attorney? It's a legal declaration which allows the designee to make decisions for the authorizing party even if the authorizing party has become incapacitated. Since homosexuals can easily utilize a durable power of attorney, the claim that homosexual marriage requires 14th Ammendment protection is nonsense.
The same argument could be made against inter racial marriage. Certainly they can use existing legal procedures to get the same benefits of marriage, just without the term right? How come then bans on interracial marriage were deemed to be unconstitutional? Why should one group of people have to go through hoops in order to get the same benefits that another group has by simply saying "I do?"
Hmm?
Because one group is by birth and one group chooses to be. Yes it is just.....that.....simple.
What pro-homosexual lobbies are trying to do is bully the public and legislators into crafting a law to grant homosexuals "special status" under the law
