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You are the fucking idiot who doesn't realize his story has changed a few times when he was interviewed by the Police. How about the fact he got his wife to lie for him?
I think you calling someone an idiot is pretty funny shit.
Nobody ever gives the exact same account twice. It depends on what got asked. It depends on what was deemed important each time. Filters are in place at both times, but what is deemed worthy of an edit may differ from time to time. People sometimes do just forget to say some things. People have the damnedest way of confusing things in terms of time sequences, etc., etc., etc.
Nobody ever gives the exact same account twice. It depends on what got asked. It depends on what was deemed important each time. Filters are in place at both times, but what is deemed worthy of an edit may differ from time to time. People sometimes do just forget to say some things. People have the damnedest way of confusing things in terms of time sequences, etc., etc., etc.
While it's true that people might not use the exact same wording, you bringing that up is a straw man. Nobody is complaining about the tomato/tomahto of Zimmerman's stories. But Zimmerman's multiple accounts paint stories that cannot be reconciled with each other.
You are the fucking idiot who doesn't realize his story has changed a few times when he was interviewed by the Police. How about the fact he got his wife to lie for him?
I think you calling someone an idiot is pretty funny shit.
Give your best example of Zimmerman's story changing?
On a recording of the call, Zimmerman could be heard at one point telling the dispatcher that Martin had taken off. “Shit, he’s running,” Zimmerman said. At almost the same moment, the audio captured him taking off his seat belt, opening the door to his vehicle and getting out to follow the teen.
Authorities have said Martin ran because he was afraid of Zimmerman and that the neighborhood watchman chased him down, confronted him and eventually shot and killed him.
But on Wednesday night’s broadcast, Zimmerman changed his story from what he told the dispatcher that night. He also said there was no way Martin was afraid of him. Here’s part of the transcript prepared by FOX News:
HANNITY: Why do you think that he was running then?
ZIMMERMAN: Maybe I said running, but he was more —
HANNITY: You said he’s running.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes. He was like skipping, going away quickly. But he wasn’t running out of fear.
HANNITY: You could tell the difference?
ZIMMERMAN: He wasn’t running.
HANNITY: So he wasn’t actually running?
ZIMMERMAN: No, sir.
HANNITY: OK. Because that’s what you said to the dispatcher, that you thought he was running.
Zimmerman went on to say he was “going in the same direction” as the teen to watch where he was headed but was not “actually pursuing him.”
The discrepancies could end up being damaging to his defense. Prosecutors charged him with second-degree murder and said his actions led to a fight and ultimately to Martin’s death. He has pleaded not guilty, said the teen attacked him first.
But that wasn’t the only inconsistency in his story on Wednesday. He also shifted what he said happened after coming face to face with the teen.
Zimmerman in the past has told authorities some slightly different versions about the encounter. All seem to involve the teen punching him in the nose, knocking him to the ground and getting on top of him.
But in one version, Zimmerman has said the teen repeatedly punched him in the face while he was flat on his back and then slammed his head into the concrete. In another version, he never mentioned the punches, saying only that the teen got on top of him and immediately started to slam his head onto the ground.
Zimmerman told the first version to investigators just hours after the shooting in an interrogation room in Sanford, Fla. The interview was recorded on video and released to the public in recent weeks.
“He ended up on top of me and he just kept punching my face and my head,” Zimmerman said in the interrogation. “I got a little bit of leverage and I started to sit up, and he took my head and slammed it into the concrete.”
The second version came days later when Zimmerman was taken back to the neighborhood by police investigators to reenact the events of that night. It was also recorded on video and recently released.
“He got on top of me somewhere around here and that’s when I started screaming ‘help, help’ as loud as I could. Oh, that’s when he grabbed me — I tried to sit up and that’s when he grabbed me by the head and tried to slam my head down,” Zimmerman said.
Zimmerman returned to his first version of the story on Wednesday night with Hannity. He said the teen punched him “more than a dozen” times while he was on the ground. Here again is the FOX News transcript :
HANNITY: OK. So after that first hit, what happened next?
ZIMMERMAN: He started bashing my head into the concrete sidewalk. I was — as soon as he broke my nose, I was — I started yelling for help. So, I was disoriented. And he started slamming my head into the concrete.
HANNITY: Which is where the lacerations came from?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
HANNITY: You said it was like your head was going to explode was a comment that you had given to the police.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir. He continued to punch me in the head.
HANNITY: How many times would you estimate that he punched you?
ZIMMERMAN: Several. More than a dozen.
HANNITY: And hitting you hard.
Evidence released last week in the second-degree-murder case against George Zimmerman shows four key witnesses made major changes in what they say they saw and heard the night he fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Sanford.
Three changed their stories in ways that may damage Zimmerman. A fourth abandoned her initial story, that she saw one person chasing another. Now, she says, she saw a single figure running.
They were reinterviewed in mid-March, after Sanford police handed the case off to State Attorney Norm Wolfinger. The case changed hands again when Gov. Rick Scott passed it on to a special prosecutor. Zimmerman was arrested April 11 on a charge of second-degree murder.
Here are the key ways in which their stories changed.
Witness 2
A young woman who lives in the Retreat at Twin Lakes community, where Trayvon was shot, was interviewed twice by Sanford police and once by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.
She told authorities that she had taken out her contact lenses just before the incident. In her first recorded interview with Sanford police four days after the shooting, she told lead Investigator Chris Serino, "I saw two guys running. Couldn't tell you who was in front, who was behind."
She stepped away from her window, and when she looked again, she "saw a fistfight. Just fists. I don't know who was hitting who."
A week later, she added a detail when talking again to Serino: During the chase, the two figures had been 10 feet apart.
That all changed when she was reinterviewed March 20 by an FDLE agent. That time, she recalled catching a glimpse of just one running figure, she told FDLE Investigator John Batchelor, and she heard the person more than saw him.
"I couldn't tell you if it was a man, a woman, a kid, black or white. I couldn't tell you because it was dark and because I didn't have my contacts on or glasses. … I just know I saw a person out there."
Witness 12
A young mother who is also a neighbor in the town-home community never gave a recorded interview to Sanford police, according to prosecution records released last week. She first sat down for an audio-recorded interview with an FDLE agent March 20, more than three weeks after the shooting.
During that session, she said she saw two people on the ground immediately after the shooting and was not sure who was on top, Zimmerman or Trayvon.
"I don't know which one. … All I saw when they were on the ground was dark colors," she said.
Six days later, however, she was sure: It was Zimmerman on top, she told trial prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda during a 21/2-minute recorded session.
"I know after seeing the TV of what's happening, comparing their sizes, I think Zimmerman was definitely on top because of his size," she said.
Witness 6
This witness lived a few feet from where Trayvon and Zimmerman had their fight. On the night of the shooting, he told Serino he saw a black man on top of a lighter-skinned man "just throwing down blows on the guy, MMA-style," a reference to mixed martial arts.
He also said the one calling for help was "the one being beat up," a reference to Zimmerman.
But three weeks later, when he was interviewed by an FDLE agent, the man said he was no longer sure which one called for help.
"I truly can't tell who, after thinking about it, was yelling for help just because it was so dark out on that sidewalk," he said.
He also said he was no longer sure Trayvon was throwing punches. The teenager may have simply been keeping Zimmerman pinned to the ground, he said.
He did not equivocate, though, about who was on top.
"The black guy was on top," he said.
Witness 13
He is important because he talked with Zimmerman and watched the way he behaved immediately after the shooting, before police arrived.
After this neighbor heard gunfire, he went outside and spotted Zimmerman standing there with"blood on the back of his head," he told Sanford police the night of the shooting.
Zimmerman told him that Trayvon "was beating up on me, so I had to shoot him," the witness told Serino. The Neighborhood Watch captain then asked the witness to call his wife, Shellie Zimmerman, and tell her what happened.
In two subsequent interviews about a month later — one with an FDLE investigator and one with de la Rionda — the witness described Zimmerman's demeanor in greater detail, adding that he spoke as if the shooting were no big deal.
Zimmerman's tone, the witness said, was "not like 'I can't believe I just shot someone!' — it was more like, 'Just tell my wife I shot somebody …,' like it was nothing."
Those witnesses are likely to be interviewed at least once more before Zimmerman's trial. Defense attorneys in Florida routinely question witnesses under oath as they prepare for trial.
But Benjamin Crump, an attorney for Martin’s family, said the Zimmerman medical reports raise more questions than answers.
“You have to take all of this in full context,” Crump told The Huffington Post this afternoon. “When someone leaks information they do it for a reason. Someone is trying to manipulate and bolster George Zimmerman’s self-defense claims.”
A number of points remain troubling, Crump said, including the fact that Zimmerman visited his family doctor the day after the shooting.
ABC News reported on Wednesday that Zimmerman sought an appointment with his family doctor to get legal clearance to return to work, which Crump said is a clear indication that Zimmerman was not as badly hurt as he claimed.
Leaked details also revealed Zimmerman was taking the prescription drugs Adderall, which is prescribed for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and narcolepsy, and Temazepam, an insomnia medication, said Crump.
“He was on uppers and downers at the same time,” the attorney said. “These are medications that can cause side effects such as agitation, delusions and mood swings. That’s what he was on prior to the shooting. The question becomes, did those drugs have an effect on George Zimmerman the night he shot and killed Trayvon Martin?”
Thanks to a strategic leak by Sanford, Florida police, and a self-described friend (or coworker) Joe Oliver, we now know what George Zimmerman told police about what happened in the minutes before he fatally shot Trayvon Martin.
The account, printed in the Orlando Sentinel and repeated by Oliver in TV and print interviews, including with theGrio, is that Zimmerman had given up following Trayvon after losing sight of him, and was returning to his SUV when the 17-year-old appeared from nowhere and jumped him from behind, then punched him in the face, breaking his nose and dropping him to the ground, and banged his head repeatedly on the pavement. Zimmerman’s latest account, via the leaks, is that he and Trayvon struggled for his 9mm semiautomatic handgun, and he the shot the teen once in the chest, killing him.
theGrio slideshow: Slain black youth who galvanized our nation
Now, it has emerged that at least one Sanford police officer may not have believed Zimmerman’s story: the lead homicide investigator Chris Serino , who was reportedly overruled on making an arrest by the state attorney, Norman Wolfinger, or his office.
Indeed, there are several potential problems with Zimmerman’s account.
1. Nowhere to hide
The path from 1111 Retreat View Circle, the clubhouse inside the gated Retreat at Twin Lakes townhome complex, where Zimmerman told police he first spotted a suspicious person, to the backyard walkway where Trayvon died, has no hiding places. Trayvon would have walked along the curved Twin Trees road that leads off Retreat View Circle, out in the open between the front-facing, connected townhouses on both sides of the street. He would have then veered onto a sidewalk that runs behind the houses to a straight lane leading to the home of his father’s girlfriend. Because the homes and back yards are connected, there are no alleys or places to hide, let alone to lay in wait. The killing happened just two or three houses in, about 120 yards from Trayvon’s intended destination. It would seem nearly impossible for Zimmerman to have lost sight of the teen based on the physical layout.
2. What’s in the 1-minute gap?
Sanford police have admitted that there is a 1-minute gap in the 911 call tape between Zimmerman’s last communications with dispatchers and the time he is believed to have come in contact with Martin. Both Zimmerman’s supporters and Trayvon’s then-girlfriend claim the two exchanged words before the shooting. If that audio is not lost, will the audio be of Zimmerman asking “what are you doing here,” as the girlfriend claims, or Trayvon asking, “do you have a problem? You do now,” as Oliver relates on Zimmerman’s behalf.
3. What made Trayvon run?
Zimmerman told dispatchers the person he spotted was coming toward him, and then, moments later, he said the person was running. I talked to a veteran Florida police officer not connected to this case, who raised the question: Why? Did Trayvon see the gun and decide to flee? Or did he simply see Zimmerman get out of his car and run in fear? And once he decided to run, why wouldn’t a fleeing Trayvon simply keep running, given that he had a straight, unobstructed path to home and safety? Is it logical to assume he stopped running in order to double back and pursue the person he had been running from?
4. The 180 degree body
If the teen was kneeling, presumably, on top of George Zimmerman, punching him or slamming his head into the concrete walkway between the facing backyards, how did Trayvon wind up lying face down with HIS feet on the sidewalk and his face in the grass? If Zimmerman’s account is true, shouldn’t Trayvon’s body have wound up with his face toward the sidewalk and his feet in the grass? Even if, after the gunshot, Trayvon fell on top of Zimmerman and the larger man pushed him off, why didn’t the body land face up, beside Zimmerman, rather than a 180 degree turn from the sidewalk — and flipped over?
5. The un-broken nose
The police reports indicate Zimmerman was treated at the scene for bleeding from or on his nose and the back of his head. But if his nose was really broken, why did that information not appear in the police reports? And if Zimmerman was treated for a broken nose, when did the treatment take place, and where?
6. Shifting stories
Zimmerman’s story has shifted over time. Initially, leaks suggested Zimmerman told police he confronted the teen, was punched in the face and dropped to the ground. This week, the Orlando Sentinel reported Zimmerman’s claim that he was no longer pursuing Trayvon and was followed back to his car (which cannot have been driven to the backyard lane where the shooting took place.) Zimmerman’s account has varied from claims that he was being pummeled in the face while on the ground to saying his head was being bashed into the sidewalk. Oliver told theGrio and other news outlets that Zimmerman told him there was a struggle for the gun, and that Zimmerman shot Trayvon to save his life. But in later interviews, he has hinted that Trayvon may have been shot by accident.
As one lawyer for Trayvon’s family, Natalie Jackson, said Tuesday on MSNBC, Zimmerman’s supporters appear to be shopping a defense to the public, and to potential jurors.
7. Arrest or no arrest?
Police reports indicate Zimmerman was placed into the back of a patrol car on the night of the shooting, and taken to the station. As one law enforcement veteran not connected to the Trayvon Martin case told me: if George Zimmerman couldn’t — or didn’t feel he could — tell the police officers at any time that he wished to get out of the patrol car and go home, he was effectively arrested, even though he was not subsequently charged.
And if Zimmerman is ultimately charged with the killing of Trayvon Martin, we will quickly learn the reason prosecutors are so cautious — in this instance, perhaps too cautious — in cases such as these. Under Florida’s speedy trial rule , once a person is charged with a felony, prosecutors must bring the defendant to trial within 175 days or risk having the case thrown out.
I think you getting all sassy at the nice lady moderator is kinda funny, but hey:
George Zimmermans Story Continues To Shift | TPMMuckraker
The liability carrier for the complex and/or the HMA is on the hook big time for this.
Why does Trayvon's family need a lawyer?
The liability carrier for the complex and/or the HMA is on the hook big time for this. Could settle it without a lawyer. The civil liability here is a slam dunk.
TV rights, trademark rights for the "Justice for Trayvon" mugs, T shirts, hats, visors, flyers and such are lining up. The lawyer smells a cash pay day.
Why does Trayvon's family need a lawyer?
The liability carrier for the complex and/or the HMA is on the hook big time for this. Could settle it without a lawyer. The civil liability here is a slam dunk.
TV rights, trademark rights for the "Justice for Trayvon" mugs, T shirts, hats, visors, flyers and such are lining up. The lawyer smells a cash pay day.
The liability carrier for the complex and/or the HMA is on the hook big time for this.
Serious question...
........................ Why would the HMA/Complex be on the hook for this in a civil case?
>>>>
Why does Trayvon's family need a lawyer?
The liability carrier for the complex and/or the HMA is on the hook big time for this. Could settle it without a lawyer. The civil liability here is a slam dunk.
TV rights, trademark rights for the "Justice for Trayvon" mugs, T shirts, hats, visors, flyers and such are lining up. The lawyer smells a cash pay day.
Translation: Another Zimmerman Zombie realizes that Georgie's story ain't cutting it in th elight of day ( and with anyone with an attention span beyond high school), so he slanders the family of the deceased. Gadawg ain't that a classy Zimmerman Zombie!
The liability carrier for the complex and/or the HMA is on the hook big time for this.
Serious question...
........................ Why would the HMA/Complex be on the hook for this in a civil case?
>>>>
1st: The burden of proof in a civil case is completely different than a criminal case. Prepondrance of the evidence is civil and all you need is a hair more than the defense to win. Criminal it is all or nothing.
The complex hired and/or allowed Zimmerman to patrol armed. As a result of that Martin was killed. Civil negligence. Wrongful death case this is a SLAM DUNK.
That has nothing to do with the burden of proof in a criminal case.
In short, you think Zimmerman changed his story from Trayvon was running to he wasn't running? Reading Zimmerman's comments, it doesn't sound like he's changing his story, only adding nuance.
It's legitimate to generally describe a jog as running. But, to be technical, jogging isn't running. This is nuance, not contradiction.
I asked for the best example you could provide, and this is it??? Trayvon supporters have shit for brains And, their arguments never extend beyond these gothya games... Was it jogging or running?
From your source: "In one version, Zimmerman has said the teen repeatedly punched him in the face while he was flat on his back and then slammed his head into the concrete. In another [later] version, he never mentioned the punches..."
Was Zimmerman punched or not?
Don't you feel like a f-ing idiot?
Serious question...
........................ Why would the HMA/Complex be on the hook for this in a civil case?
>>>>
1st: The burden of proof in a civil case is completely different than a criminal case. Prepondrance of the evidence is civil and all you need is a hair more than the defense to win. Criminal it is all or nothing.
No disagreement.
The complex hired and/or allowed Zimmerman to patrol armed. As a result of that Martin was killed. Civil negligence. Wrongful death case this is a SLAM DUNK.
That has nothing to do with the burden of proof in a criminal case.
I disagree.
One the complex didn't "hire" Zimmerman. The Home Owners Association (HOA) initiated actions to create a Neighborhood Watch and asked for volunteers and Zimmerman was elected as the Watch Captain. That does not imply negligence on the part of the HOA. They did nothing wrong with that, if that were to be the case then no HOA with the country would allow NW organizations in their community because of liability - clearly not the case.
In addition there is documented evidence that Zimmerman was advised by police personnel as to the proper conduct of NW volunteers. Powerpoint Presentations used by the Police Liaison and the instructional materials provided to the group included instructions:
1. Not to patrol armed with a firearm, and
2. Not to physically interject themselves into a situation.
Zimmerman violated two fundamental guidelines of the NW organization - no guns, not interference - it is not negligence on the part of the HOA because Zimmerman violated procedures. Now if the HOA had been informed in the past that Zimmerman was violating established protocols and then either endorsed or failed to take action against Zimmerman's conduct, that would be a different matter. But the claimant in the case would have to show that the HOA was negligent in failure to act upon such notifications, if they existed. (Which it appears the don't.)
Slam dunk? I respectfully disagree. The claimant in such a suit would have to a burden of proof to show negligence on the HOA's part which does not appear to exist.
>>>>
Serious question...
........................ Why would the HMA/Complex be on the hook for this in a civil case?
>>>>
1st: The burden of proof in a civil case is completely different than a criminal case. Prepondrance of the evidence is civil and all you need is a hair more than the defense to win. Criminal it is all or nothing.
No disagreement.
The complex hired and/or allowed Zimmerman to patrol armed. As a result of that Martin was killed. Civil negligence. Wrongful death case this is a SLAM DUNK.
That has nothing to do with the burden of proof in a criminal case.
I disagree.
One the complex didn't "hire" Zimmerman. The Home Owners Association (HOA) initiated actions to create a Neighborhood Watch and asked for volunteers and Zimmerman was elected as the Watch Captain. That does not imply negligence on the part of the HOA. They did nothing wrong with that, if that were to be the case then no HOA with the country would allow NW organizations in their community because of liability - clearly not the case.
In addition there is documented evidence that Zimmerman was advised by police personnel as to the proper conduct of NW volunteers. Powerpoint Presentations used by the Police Liaison and the instructional materials provided to the group included instructions:
1. Not to patrol armed with a firearm, and
2. Not to physically interject themselves into a situation.
Zimmerman violated two fundamental guidelines of the NW organization - no guns, not interference - it is not negligence on the part of the HOA because Zimmerman violated procedures. Now if the HOA had been informed in the past that Zimmerman was violating established protocols and then either endorsed or failed to take action against Zimmerman's conduct, that would be a different matter. But the claimant in the case would have to show that the HOA was negligent in failure to act upon such notifications, if they existed. (Which it appears the don't.)
Slam dunk? I respectfully disagree. The claimant in such a suit would have to a burden of proof to show negligence on the HOA's part which does not appear to exist.
>>>>
From interview to interview, GZ isn't sure, how Martin got to him, where Martin got to him, how Martin struck or grabbed him, exactly where and how much, or how the gun discharged, which leaves us with a lot of circumstances to sort, since GZ won't get too much of your brand of conjecture in, as deflection.
1st: The burden of proof in a civil case is completely different than a criminal case. Prepondrance of the evidence is civil and all you need is a hair more than the defense to win. Criminal it is all or nothing.
No disagreement.
The complex hired and/or allowed Zimmerman to patrol armed. As a result of that Martin was killed. Civil negligence. Wrongful death case this is a SLAM DUNK.
That has nothing to do with the burden of proof in a criminal case.
I disagree.
One the complex didn't "hire" Zimmerman. The Home Owners Association (HOA) initiated actions to create a Neighborhood Watch and asked for volunteers and Zimmerman was elected as the Watch Captain. That does not imply negligence on the part of the HOA. They did nothing wrong with that, if that were to be the case then no HOA with the country would allow NW organizations in their community because of liability - clearly not the case.
In addition there is documented evidence that Zimmerman was advised by police personnel as to the proper conduct of NW volunteers. Powerpoint Presentations used by the Police Liaison and the instructional materials provided to the group included instructions:
1. Not to patrol armed with a firearm, and
2. Not to physically interject themselves into a situation.
Zimmerman violated two fundamental guidelines of the NW organization - no guns, not interference - it is not negligence on the part of the HOA because Zimmerman violated procedures. Now if the HOA had been informed in the past that Zimmerman was violating established protocols and then either endorsed or failed to take action against Zimmerman's conduct, that would be a different matter. But the claimant in the case would have to show that the HOA was negligent in failure to act upon such notifications, if they existed. (Which it appears the don't.)
Slam dunk? I respectfully disagree. The claimant in such a suit would have to a burden of proof to show negligence on the HOA's part which does not appear to exist.
>>>>
Dog bite cases in some jurisdictions you get a first bite exemption but not in wrongful death negligence.
