God... Is Time.

[Coyote]

Guys - discuss the topic. Posts must have content related to the topic in addition to any flames.

 

[there4eyeM]

At what time does one know God?

And remember, if everything is one thing, then it is nothing.

 

[Hollie]

I first considered writing the one-millionth thread on the philosophical discussion of a Creator, then I paused and thought deeper. Is there some way to break through the typical mundane chore of battling our way through various debates on religion and religious dogma to arrive at some point of mutual understanding or consideration? I am not sure if there is, but it's worth thinking about if you are able to hang your preconceptions at the door and be open minded.

The primary weapon of those who disbelieve concepts of God is science. There is no physical evidence to support the idea of God, therefore God is rejected as a possibility. We are all familiar with the argument, so what is the point in yet another thread to debate this? It's really pointless, right? But the thing is, science doesn't draw conclusions of certainty on the matter of God, or anything else, really. Science merely explores probability and possibility. Man creates conclusions of certainty, and at that moment, he also abandons science for faith. Science continues to explore possibility, and if possibility has been determined to not exist, science can do no more.

I am often asked what is my "proof" that God exists. My proof is Time. Time is God and God is Time. Before you jump to the conclusion this is not possible because Time is a physical dimension we can measure with science, consider the following: Our perception of Time is false. We assume Time exists, we can't perceive the present. We can divide Time into past, present and future. We have no perception of the future or if the future will happen at all. We only have evidence of the past, which includes our perceptions of the present. You see-- Every physical sense we have depends on the passing of time to happen. Something may happen in present time but by the time you perceive it, time has passed and it's in the past. The moment of the present is undetectable to mortal human beings. We assume the present time happened because evidence exists in the past that seems to confirm this. If we cannot observe it, does it really exist?

I have to disagree....."time" is meaningless to an eternal being......I believe that Genesis tells us the first thing created was "time".....that which separates day and night......the passage of time......

No disrespect, I fully agree that time means nothing to God but this is not a theological argument I am making. God is actually greater than time, but for the sake of talking to the monkeys, I've simplified it so we can communicate.

Which of the gawds have given you authority to speak affirmatively on their behalf?

 

[RandomVariable]

Made it to page 4. Just can not read through all this stuff. Some of it is really good, some of it not so much so. I happened to just watch this video about Heidegger's philosophy(ies) this afternoon. Maybe one of most renown philosophy books is "Being and Time", by the above mentioned, published in 1927. Heidegger's statement is 'we are time'. So perhaps one could carry this to 'we are god'? (Absolutely not but for the sake of argument perhaps, perhaps not.)

(You can skip to 9:20 to get directly to the comments about time.)

 

[there4eyeM]

Meaning, nothing has meaning if there is no one there to give it.

We are 'there'/here. It is not here for us, it is here because we are.

 

[RandomVariable]

Meaning, nothing has meaning if there is no one there to give it.

We are 'there'/here. It is not here for us, it is here because we are.

If I am not misapplying Kant too badly here nothing has meaning without understanding. Simply being someone is necessary but not sufficient.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Such are the wages of belief in YEC'ist dogma.

The affects of gravity are observable.

I am of the opinion that if you were pushed off a tall building the Earth would not be much older before you observed gravity.......

 

[theword]

Your God is just powerless to stop you from lying!

From the last paragraph I cited:

It would be tempting to dismiss Wheeler's thought experiment as a curious idea, except for one thing: It has been demonstrated in a laboratory.

Indeed. You're showing me an experiment which seems to prove that the past can be changed. Something that seems to completely defy logic and physics but it doesn't because it can be demonstrated. Light is a strange and mysterious property in a lot of ways. So is electromagnetism and gravity, and so is Time. As much as we like to think physics has it all figured out, it doesn't. We continue to be perplexed and astounded at things we discover.

But absolutely none of what you are posting has anything to do with observation of the present. In fact, what you are offering is more evidence that we can't be absolutely sure what is happening in the present. Just because we assume it is as we perceive it after the fact, doesn't mean it actually is. Logic can be totally wrong, as in your example.

: :

Time isn't something that's real. It is an illusion that an observer can sense if he's aware of it. Otherwise, an observer can only perceive one picture at a time that gives him the sense of motion, which is needed to sense time. Since we're only stationary information until processed into pictures, time, motion, space and matter, everything we experience is an illusion.

 

[Boss]

Time isn't something that's real. It is an illusion that an observer can sense if he's aware of it. Otherwise, an observer can only perceive one picture at a time that gives him the sense of motion, which is needed to sense time. Since we're only stationary information until processed into pictures, time, motion, space and matter, everything we experience is an illusion.

No one can perceive any picture until light travels. My argument is that we can't observe the present. Regardless of your theories on time, this remains true. If you want to imagine time as slices or frames which give perception of motion, that's fine... it has nothing to do with my argument.

 

[Hollie]

Such are the wages of belief in YEC'ist dogma.

The affects of gravity are observable.

I am of the opinion that if you were pushed off a tall building the Earth would not be much older before you observed gravity.......

Such are the wages of belief in YEC'ist dogma.

The affects of gravity are observable.

I am of the opinion that if you were pushed off a tall building the Earth would not be much older before you observed gravity.......

And you changed your opinion when I corrected you for your falsely formed comment about gravity. Which is why you selectively edited my comment in your post.

 

[Hollie]

Time isn't something that's real. It is an illusion that an observer can sense if he's aware of it. Otherwise, an observer can only perceive one picture at a time that gives him the sense of motion, which is needed to sense time. Since we're only stationary information until processed into pictures, time, motion, space and matter, everything we experience is an illusion.

No one can perceive any picture until light travels. My argument is that we can't observe the present. Regardless of your theories on time, this remains true. If you want to imagine time as slices or frames which give perception of motion, that's fine... it has nothing to do with my argument.

And when light travels, there is an instantaneous moment in time when we perceive the present. Regardless of your god=time™ meme, our perception of time is a function of the interaction of our eyes and brain.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Such are the wages of belief in YEC'ist dogma.

The affects of gravity are observable.

I am of the opinion that if you were pushed off a tall building the Earth would not be much older before you observed gravity.......

Such are the wages of belief in YEC'ist dogma.

The affects of gravity are observable.

I am of the opinion that if you were pushed off a tall building the Earth would not be much older before you observed gravity.......

And you changed your opinion when I corrected you for your falsely formed comment about gravity. Which is why you selectively edited my comment in your post.

not true...generally I edit your posts because I don't give a fuck what you say......however, in this instance I didn't edit anything............

 

[BreezeWood]

Time isn't something that's real. It is an illusion that an observer can sense if he's aware of it. Otherwise, an observer can only perceive one picture at a time that gives him the sense of motion, which is needed to sense time. Since we're only stationary information until processed into pictures, time, motion, space and matter, everything we experience is an illusion.

No one can perceive any picture until light travels. My argument is that we can't observe the present. Regardless of your theories on time, this remains true. If you want to imagine time as slices or frames which give perception of motion, that's fine... it has nothing to do with my argument.

And when light travels, there is an instantaneous moment in time when we perceive the present. Regardless of your god=time™ meme, our perception of time is a function of the interaction of our eyes and brain.

.

B: ... everything we experience is an illusion.

not at all, only the interpretation would be illusionary by some not the element of exterior exposure that is set by the present tense and irregardless when registered.

you have stated there is more to your " time is (your) god " theory, hopefully you have something in mind to "share" as per your delineation to your receptive audience ...

 

[Boss]

And when light travels, there is an instantaneous moment in time when we perceive the present. Regardless of your god=time™ meme, our perception of time is a function of the interaction of our eyes and brain.

There is no instantaneous moment in time when we perceive the present. Our perception is always of the past and we can label it however we please. I demonstrated how this works earlier with my Super Bowl analogy. I watched the Super Bowl live on my television but my perception of the present was actually the past. Everything I saw had already happened. For someone sitting in the stadium the perception of present time was completely different. To compound further, someone sitting in the nosebleed section had a different perception of present time than someone on the sideline. Light had to travel further.

Yes, our perception of "the present" is a function of our eyes interacting with our brain. This requires TIME and cannot happen without it. Therefore, all you perceive is time which has passed. The instant you experience as "present" is not in the present anymore, it can't be. It's not physically possible.

 

[Hollie]

Such are the wages of belief in YEC'ist dogma.

The affects of gravity are observable.

I am of the opinion that if you were pushed off a tall building the Earth would not be much older before you observed gravity.......

Such are the wages of belief in YEC'ist dogma.

The affects of gravity are observable.

I am of the opinion that if you were pushed off a tall building the Earth would not be much older before you observed gravity.......

And you changed your opinion when I corrected you for your falsely formed comment about gravity. Which is why you selectively edited my comment in your post.

not true...generally I edit your posts because I don't give a fuck what you say......however, in this instance I didn't edit anything............

......except for the part you edited out.

 

[Hollie]

And when light travels, there is an instantaneous moment in time when we perceive the present. Regardless of your god=time™ meme, our perception of time is a function of the interaction of our eyes and brain.

There is no instantaneous moment in time when we perceive the present. Our perception is always of the past and we can label it however we please. I demonstrated how this works earlier with my Super Bowl analogy. I watched the Super Bowl live on my television but my perception of the present was actually the past. Everything I saw had already happened. For someone sitting in the stadium the perception of present time was completely different. To compound further, someone sitting in the nosebleed section had a different perception of present time than someone on the sideline. Light had to travel further.

Yes, our perception of "the present" is a function of our eyes interacting with our brain. This requires TIME and cannot happen without it. Therefore, all you perceive is time which has passed. The instant you experience as "present" is not in the present anymore, it can't be. It's not physically possible.

There actually is an instantaneous moment in time when we perceive the present. It's called perception.

 

[RandomVariable]

And when light travels, there is an instantaneous moment in time when we perceive the present. Regardless of your god=time™ meme, our perception of time is a function of the interaction of our eyes and brain.

There is no instantaneous moment in time when we perceive the present. Our perception is always of the past and we can label it however we please. I demonstrated how this works earlier with my Super Bowl analogy. I watched the Super Bowl live on my television but my perception of the present was actually the past. Everything I saw had already happened. For someone sitting in the stadium the perception of present time was completely different. To compound further, someone sitting in the nosebleed section had a different perception of present time than someone on the sideline. Light had to travel further.

Yes, our perception of "the present" is a function of our eyes interacting with our brain. This requires TIME and cannot happen without it. Therefore, all you perceive is time which has passed. The instant you experience as "present" is not in the present anymore, it can't be. It's not physically possible.

There actually is an instantaneous moment in time when we perceive the present. It's called perception.

But what we perceive is a continuation of what we have perceived in the past. There is no such thing as instantaneous perception, an argument made several times in this thread. (Ah, another person so caught up in their own conclusions they can not learn along the way.)

 

[Hollie]

And when light travels, there is an instantaneous moment in time when we perceive the present. Regardless of your god=time™ meme, our perception of time is a function of the interaction of our eyes and brain.

There is no instantaneous moment in time when we perceive the present. Our perception is always of the past and we can label it however we please. I demonstrated how this works earlier with my Super Bowl analogy. I watched the Super Bowl live on my television but my perception of the present was actually the past. Everything I saw had already happened. For someone sitting in the stadium the perception of present time was completely different. To compound further, someone sitting in the nosebleed section had a different perception of present time than someone on the sideline. Light had to travel further.

Yes, our perception of "the present" is a function of our eyes interacting with our brain. This requires TIME and cannot happen without it. Therefore, all you perceive is time which has passed. The instant you experience as "present" is not in the present anymore, it can't be. It's not physically possible.

There actually is an instantaneous moment in time when we perceive the present. It's called perception.

But what we perceive is a continuation of what we have perceived in the past. There is no such thing as instantaneous perception, an argument made several times in this thread. (Ah, another person so caught up in their own conclusions they can not learn along the way.)

There actually is an instantaneous perception of time. It's called the present.

 

[Boss]

There actually is an instantaneous moment in time when we perceive the present. It's called perception.

I know what perception is. Our only perception is of time which has passed. The "instantaneous moment" is already in the past before we can perceive it, and in fact, takes even more time to compute in our brains after we have received the information. Furthermore, your perception is completely different than every other human being. We can look up at a star and understand we are looking at a star in present time, that is our perception. We are actually looking at a star from hundreds of years ago. The star may not even presently exist anymore. Our perception of present is always the past, it's physically impossible for it not to be.

 

[there4eyeM]

'Now' is outside of time. It is timeless because it is always 'now'. What appears to be residue from the past is merely a part of now and does not exist separately.
'Now' is the universe coming into being.
It is not coming from the past and is not going to the future.
It is timeless because it is always only now.
It is ephemeral because it never lasts, merely continues becoming.
If 'God' is anything, it is now (I Am).