God needs a super-natural visit today

[AVG-JOE]

Come on now... writing about something that happened to you a few years ago is not the same as writing about events that you heard about which happened to someone else 50 years ago.

and yet that's an inaccurate depiction of the gospels.....in the case of John, he wrote about events he witnessed and his intent was to prove that Jesus was in fact God at a time when a heresy was denying his divinity.....Matthew was not an apostle, but he was among those who followed Jesus while he was alive....he wrote for those the apostles were preaching to in Jerusalem, those who were being shown that Jesus was the promised Messiah....Mark was an early missionary working with Paul who knew the apostles and transcribed their experiences while they were still alive...he wrote for the people Paul was preaching to in the Gentile community who had no previous knowledge of a Messiah......Luke, who also wrote the book of Acts, wanted to put down in an historically chronological order the events he experienced and heard the various apostles describe and discuss....the gospels aren't just something someone "heard about".....

I understand that you have your reasons for believing what you do. The forming of The Church is well documented by The Church.

The questionable circumstances under which The New Testament was started and The Church was birthed by Saul/Paul 30+ years after the alleged Resurrection of a dead Jesus is just one of the reasons that I question the reality of The God of Abraham, as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran.

Our history is another reason for me to conclude that a God who cares for humanity simply does not exist.

`​

 

[The Irish Ram]

Nonsense.

Men can’t be ‘inspired’ by something that doesn’t exist as perceived by theists.

As already correctly noted several times: the bible was written by men, where its teachings and dogma are suspect accordingly.

If that is true then there is no one strapping bombs on their bodies and yelling, "For Allah." They're nothing if not inspired.
God wrote, man penned. Men can't tell the future.

True, but with vague enough predictions and 8,000 years of Time to spread them over, even Monkeys can get lucky.

Then let's condense it. Prophesy concerning Christ that He had no control over:

Betrayed by a friend
Sold out for 30 pieces of silver
Beard ripped off of face
Crucified (a practice that was invented well after the prophesy was made!)
Hands and feet pierced
Crucified with thieves
Clothes divided and gambled for
Forsaken by disciples
Rejected by His own people
Side pierced
Buried in a rich man's tomb.
The exact day He would be proclaimed the Messiah by His followers
Darkness at 12 pm
Earthquake at 3pm

Define vague, cutie.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Men (and women), have been inspired to write many books. The books they wrote were sometimes written "over a long period of time". That is not evidence that any of these books deserve to be worshipped as "holy".

and yet, 3 billion people consider the Bible to be a communication of God's intent for humanity......it isn't a question of "deserved".....its a question of acceptance......

And yet, we see that overwhelmingly, geography accounts for whatever communications from the gods (by way of books written by men), is the determining factor for religious belief. .

sure....that's why the fastest growing Christian churches in the world are in Nigeria, Korea and Brazil.....they're all close together geographically.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

Men (and women), have been inspired to write many books. The books they wrote were sometimes written "over a long period of time". That is not evidence that any of these books deserve to be worshipped as "holy".

and yet, 3 billion people consider the Bible to be a communication of God's intent for humanity......it isn't a question of "deserved".....its a question of acceptance......

It appears to be a question of popularity.

If that's the criteria, the Muslims win!!

well, actually no....
How many more Christians are there than Muslims

 

[PostmodernProph]

If what was written up to 50 years after the fact wasn't true, enough people would still have been alive, to refute it. Some texts were written in the moment. In all probability, Matthew's accounts were one of those, his job having required short hand.

At Passover the city was crowded beyond capacity. No one refuted what happened. While many said they saw with their eyes, the same man that hung on a cross till dead, walking around for forty days after He died, no one said, " I was there also, and that didn't happen." You'd think they'd jump all over a claim like that.

But only 11 people believed and spread the word that Jesus did all those miraculous things. 11 because Judas killed himself. Everyone else said Jesus was a blasphemer and not the messiah. So your cult grew and millions believe now. So what? Millions also believe the jewish story, muslim, mormon, jehova. They're all wrong.

except there were 3000 more just 40 days later....(Pentacost).....

 

[PostmodernProph]

Men (and women), have been inspired to write many books. The books they wrote were sometimes written "over a long period of time". That is not evidence that any of these books deserve to be worshipped as "holy".

and yet, 3 billion people consider the Bible to be a communication of God's intent for humanity......it isn't a question of "deserved".....its a question of acceptance......

Deuteronomy 7:7 The LORD did not set his affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples.
The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

And perhaps that's why the overwhelming number of Jews are unconvinced by the "Popularity" argument.

well gosh, its a good thing that wasn't the purpose of my post.....it was to respond to the specific criticism of Hollie, not to convince Jews.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

Come on now... writing about something that happened to you a few years ago is not the same as writing about events that you heard about which happened to someone else 50 years ago.

and yet that's an inaccurate depiction of the gospels.....in the case of John, he wrote about events he witnessed and his intent was to prove that Jesus was in fact God at a time when a heresy was denying his divinity.....Matthew was not an apostle, but he was among those who followed Jesus while he was alive....he wrote for those the apostles were preaching to in Jerusalem, those who were being shown that Jesus was the promised Messiah....Mark was an early missionary working with Paul who knew the apostles and transcribed their experiences while they were still alive...he wrote for the people Paul was preaching to in the Gentile community who had no previous knowledge of a Messiah......Luke, who also wrote the book of Acts, wanted to put down in an historically chronological order the events he experienced and heard the various apostles describe and discuss....the gospels aren't just something someone "heard about".....

I understand that you have your reasons for believing what you do. The forming of The Church is well documented by The Church.

The questionable circumstances under which The New Testament was started and The Church was birthed by Saul/Paul 30+ years after the alleged Resurrection of a dead Jesus is just one of the reasons that I question the reality of The God of Abraham, as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran.

Our history is another reason for me to conclude that a God who cares for humanity simply does not exist.

I could go along with your "questionable circumstances" if your depiction of them was accurate......Paul didn't "birth" the church 30 years after the resurrection of Jesus.....he persecuted the church for years before he was converted....the church actually started on Pentecost, forty days after Jesus's ascension.....so basically you are questioning the reality of God based on your own false information....sorry.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

If that is true then there is no one strapping bombs on their bodies and yelling, "For Allah." They're nothing if not inspired.
God wrote, man penned. Men can't tell the future.

True, but with vague enough predictions and 8,000 years of Time to spread them over, even Monkeys can get lucky.

Then let's condense it. Prophesy concerning Christ that He had no control over:

Betrayed by a friend
Sold out for 30 pieces of silver
Beard ripped off of face
Crucified (a practice that was invented well after the prophesy was made!)
Hands and feet pierced
Crucified with thieves
Clothes divided and gambled for
Forsaken by disciples
Rejected by His own people
Side pierced
Buried in a rich man's tomb.
The exact day He would be proclaimed the Messiah by His followers
Darkness at 12 pm
Earthquake at 3pm

Define vague, cutie.

just a drop in the bucket, actually...here are 352.....
http://www.accordingtothescriptures.org/prophecy/353prophecies.html

 

[AVG-JOE]

and yet that's an inaccurate depiction of the gospels.....in the case of John, he wrote about events he witnessed and his intent was to prove that Jesus was in fact God at a time when a heresy was denying his divinity.....Matthew was not an apostle, but he was among those who followed Jesus while he was alive....he wrote for those the apostles were preaching to in Jerusalem, those who were being shown that Jesus was the promised Messiah....Mark was an early missionary working with Paul who knew the apostles and transcribed their experiences while they were still alive...he wrote for the people Paul was preaching to in the Gentile community who had no previous knowledge of a Messiah......Luke, who also wrote the book of Acts, wanted to put down in an historically chronological order the events he experienced and heard the various apostles describe and discuss....the gospels aren't just something someone "heard about".....

I understand that you have your reasons for believing what you do. The forming of The Church is well documented by The Church.

The questionable circumstances under which The New Testament was started and The Church was birthed by Saul/Paul 30+ years after the alleged Resurrection of a dead Jesus is just one of the reasons that I question the reality of The God of Abraham, as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran.

Our history is another reason for me to conclude that a God who cares for humanity simply does not exist.

I could go along with your "questionable circumstances" if your depiction of them was accurate......Paul didn't "birth" the church 30 years after the resurrection of Jesus.....he persecuted the church for years before he was converted....the church actually started on Pentecost, forty days after Jesus's ascension.....so basically you are questioning the reality of God based on your own false information....sorry.....

I question the documentation of the events described in The New Testament in particular and I question the validity of The God of Abraham as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran.

I question the validity of Abraham's relationship with God as unique among Monkeys.​

 

[The Irish Ram]

If what was written up to 50 years after the fact wasn't true, enough people would still have been alive, to refute it. Some texts were written in the moment. In all probability, Matthew's accounts were one of those, his job having required short hand.

At Passover the city was crowded beyond capacity. No one refuted what happened. While many said they saw with their eyes, the same man that hung on a cross till dead, walking around for forty days after He died, no one said, " I was there also, and that didn't happen." You'd think they'd jump all over a claim like that.

But only 11 people believed and spread the word that Jesus did all those miraculous things. 11 because Judas killed himself. Everyone else said Jesus was a blasphemer and not the messiah. So your cult grew and millions believe now. So what? Millions also believe the jewish story, muslim, mormon, jehova. They're all wrong.

except there were 3000 more just 40 days later....(Pentacost).....

Not quite, sealy.
A small group of priests called Him a blasphemer. Christ was so magnetic, and healed so many people, that crowds swarmed around Him. Not unlike a rock star today. There were so many people in one instance that Christ had to get in a boat to keep from being pushed into the sea by the hordes. In another instance He sent out 70 of His disciples on one mission.
The 12 you mentioned were the inner core of His ministry. His love and peace and healing and teaching were so welcomed by the people, that Kings and Emperors, and Pharisees spent the next one hundred years burning and destroying everything Christian they could find and killing Christians by the thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands in an attempt to prevent Christianity from catching on. Faith in Christ even trumps self preservation.

 

[Chuckt]

I understand that you have your reasons for believing what you do. The forming of The Church is well documented by The Church.

The questionable circumstances under which The New Testament was started and The Church was birthed by Saul/Paul 30+ years after the alleged Resurrection of a dead Jesus is just one of the reasons that I question the reality of The God of Abraham, as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran.

Our history is another reason for me to conclude that a God who cares for humanity simply does not exist.

I could go along with your "questionable circumstances" if your depiction of them was accurate......Paul didn't "birth" the church 30 years after the resurrection of Jesus.....he persecuted the church for years before he was converted....the church actually started on Pentecost, forty days after Jesus's ascension.....so basically you are questioning the reality of God based on your own false information....sorry.....

I question the documentation of the events described in The New Testament in particular and I question the validity of The God of Abraham as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran.

I question the validity of Abraham's relationship with God as unique among Monkeys.​

I had a co-worker who should have been fired. He argued with me about how to do his job instead of doing the work and business suffered as a result.

I've done business with a lot of stinky companies because I had to for work. Their quality of work or lack thereof didn't mean there wasn't a service.

Being able to question, doubt or argue doesn't determine the truth in all cases.

It is seeing the glass half empty instead of half full.

 

[Hollie]

True, but with vague enough predictions and 8,000 years of Time to spread them over, even Monkeys can get lucky.

Then let's condense it. Prophesy concerning Christ that He had no control over:

Betrayed by a friend
Sold out for 30 pieces of silver
Beard ripped off of face
Crucified (a practice that was invented well after the prophesy was made!)
Hands and feet pierced
Crucified with thieves
Clothes divided and gambled for
Forsaken by disciples
Rejected by His own people
Side pierced
Buried in a rich man's tomb.
The exact day He would be proclaimed the Messiah by His followers
Darkness at 12 pm
Earthquake at 3pm

Define vague, cutie.

just a drop in the bucket, actually...here are 352.....
http://www.accordingtothescriptures.org/prophecy/353prophecies.html

That's remarkable. The writers of the bibles actually made prophecies and later fulfilled those.

PTL

A quick web search will return refutations to a host of those so-called prophecies.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I could go along with your "questionable circumstances" if your depiction of them was accurate......Paul didn't "birth" the church 30 years after the resurrection of Jesus.....he persecuted the church for years before he was converted....the church actually started on Pentecost, forty days after Jesus's ascension.....so basically you are questioning the reality of God based on your own false information....sorry.....

I question the documentation of the events described in The New Testament in particular and I question the validity of The God of Abraham as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran.

I question the validity of Abraham's relationship with God as unique among Monkeys.​

I had a co-worker who should have been fired. He argued with me about how to do his job instead of doing the work and business suffered as a result.

I've done business with a lot of stinky companies because I had to for work. Their quality of work or lack thereof didn't mean there wasn't a service.

Being able to question, doubt or argue doesn't determine the truth in all cases.

It is seeing the glass half empty instead of half full.

Perhaps... but questioning dogma remains the first step toward uncovering the truth - even if the dogma under question proves true.

 

[PostmodernProph]

I understand that you have your reasons for believing what you do. The forming of The Church is well documented by The Church.

The questionable circumstances under which The New Testament was started and The Church was birthed by Saul/Paul 30+ years after the alleged Resurrection of a dead Jesus is just one of the reasons that I question the reality of The God of Abraham, as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran.

Our history is another reason for me to conclude that a God who cares for humanity simply does not exist.

I could go along with your "questionable circumstances" if your depiction of them was accurate......Paul didn't "birth" the church 30 years after the resurrection of Jesus.....he persecuted the church for years before he was converted....the church actually started on Pentecost, forty days after Jesus's ascension.....so basically you are questioning the reality of God based on your own false information....sorry.....

I question the documentation of the events described in The New Testament in particular and I question the validity of The God of Abraham as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran.

I question the validity of Abraham's relationship with God as unique among Monkeys.​

that doesn't give you license to make shit up and pretend its evidence.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

Then let's condense it. Prophesy concerning Christ that He had no control over:

Betrayed by a friend
Sold out for 30 pieces of silver
Beard ripped off of face
Crucified (a practice that was invented well after the prophesy was made!)
Hands and feet pierced
Crucified with thieves
Clothes divided and gambled for
Forsaken by disciples
Rejected by His own people
Side pierced
Buried in a rich man's tomb.
The exact day He would be proclaimed the Messiah by His followers
Darkness at 12 pm
Earthquake at 3pm

Define vague, cutie.

just a drop in the bucket, actually...here are 352.....
http://www.accordingtothescriptures.org/prophecy/353prophecies.html

That's remarkable. The writers of the bibles actually made prophecies and later fulfilled those.

of course....oh wait.....they were around five hundred years later to cause their prophecies to be fulfilled?.....that would have been rather remarkable in its own right, neh?.......

I understand your concern though.....you're afraid it was all a conspiracy to make sure their long distant descendants could be fed to lions, burned at the stake and eventually get to wear funny hats in Italy.....

 

[DriftingSand]

I question the documentation of the events described in The New Testament in particular and I question the validity of The God of Abraham as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran.

I question the validity of Abraham's relationship with God as unique among Monkeys.​

I had a co-worker who should have been fired. He argued with me about how to do his job instead of doing the work and business suffered as a result.

I've done business with a lot of stinky companies because I had to for work. Their quality of work or lack thereof didn't mean there wasn't a service.

Being able to question, doubt or argue doesn't determine the truth in all cases.

It is seeing the glass half empty instead of half full.

Perhaps... but questioning dogma remains the first step toward uncovering the truth - even if the dogma under question proves true.

The entire, underlying dogma of the Bible sits atop the first three chapters of Genesis. That's where the stage is set and it's the foundation upon which the rest of the Bible is built. If a person rejects the beginning of the story then the rest of the book will make little sense.

 

[Hollie]

just a drop in the bucket, actually...here are 352.....
http://www.accordingtothescriptures.org/prophecy/353prophecies.html

That's remarkable. The writers of the bibles actually made prophecies and later fulfilled those.

of course....oh wait.....they were around five hundred years later to cause their prophecies to be fulfilled?.....that would have been rather remarkable in its own right, neh?.......

I understand your concern though.....you're afraid it was all a conspiracy to make sure their long distant descendants could be fed to lions, burned at the stake and eventually get to wear funny hats in Italy.....

Actually, I understand your need to believe in vague or non- existent "prophecies".

What is consistent with fortune tellers, soothsayers and alleged holy texts that predict the future is just how vague or down-right wrong the predictions typically are.

As to alleged “prophecies”, most thumpers from most religions make these claims but never actually demonstrate any of these prophecies. Is that because we have to wait to receive them? How long do we wait – forever, or until happenstance gives you a Mulligan? Come on, show us a single, verifiable account of a prophecy. Remember, we want a Bible claim that tells us something in a narrow and specific way without the need for outrageous, manipulative, selective interpretation or the typical “the verse in this context means…”

 

[Hollie]

I had a co-worker who should have been fired. He argued with me about how to do his job instead of doing the work and business suffered as a result.

I've done business with a lot of stinky companies because I had to for work. Their quality of work or lack thereof didn't mean there wasn't a service.

Being able to question, doubt or argue doesn't determine the truth in all cases.

It is seeing the glass half empty instead of half full.

Perhaps... but questioning dogma remains the first step toward uncovering the truth - even if the dogma under question proves true.

The entire, underlying dogma of the Bible sits atop the first three chapters of Genesis. That's where the stage is set and it's the foundation upon which the rest of the Bible is built. If a person rejects the beginning of the story then the rest of the book will make little sense.

Similarly, because genesis is rife with errors, contradictions and falsehoods, that calls into question the veracity of later additions by various authors.

 

[MaryL]

If god can do anything, he should peek through the clouds and say, "Yea, guys and gals, I'm real" and that would be enough.

Is he not powerful enough or my expectations too high?

I read that rabbis in a Nazi death camp put god on trial for allowing the slaughter of the innocent, they realized there couldn't be a God. So they prayed to god to guide them through the crisis. Perhaps that is just a myth. Perhaps, religion is meaningless. An atheist would pray that god DOES exist, too. We look for little surprises in life, don't we?

 

[dblack]

I think we're ready for a more sophisticated understanding of gods and religious faith. We need to admit that gods are constructs of networked human minds yet understand that such a realization doesn't diminish their power.