God’s decree. No punishment after death for men.

[GreatestIam]

God’s decree. No punishment after death for men.


A good God must be a huge hearted Universalist God. If not then he is a satanic loser. All are equal before God. If not then God would not be righteous. God forbid.


Gnostic Scriptures and Fragments: Epiphanes - On Righteousness


It must then follow that there is no punishment of man after death. Intelligently, God creates all for the best of all possible ends. This is also a natural law.


Only a loser of a God would have a heaven and a hell. Only a poor shepherd would lose a huge part of his flock.


Is your God a Universalist God?


Regards

DL

 

[SassyIrishLass]

The OP is very very confused

 

[The Irish Ram]

God created Heaven for the angels, Earth for His children, and Hell for Satan and the fallen angels, and demons, and for those humans who choose to follow Satan. To avoid Hell, accept the gift of propitiation offered by Christ at the cross. It is a gift.

 

[The Irish Ram]

God created Heaven for the angels, earth for His children, and hell for Satan and the fallen angels, and for any human that wishes to follow Satan. For those who accept the gift of propitiation that occurred on the cross, the only judgement awaiting those people is for rewards earned by good works, done for Christ's sake. It would be double jeopardy to try the same crimes twice. Those who choose to hold on to their trespasses, will be on the docket at the White Throne Judgement, and will plead their case then. Good Luck to them. One thing only is in their favor. Their Judge will be the most humble loving creature in all of creation....

 

[GreatestIam]

The OP is very very confused

Only when compared to those who have a loser for a God who has to destroy his own creations.

I know I have hit close when believers just throw stones and cannot refute the premise.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

God created Heaven for the angels, Earth for His children, and Hell for Satan and the fallen angels, and demons, and for those humans who choose to follow Satan. To avoid Hell, accept the gift of propitiation offered by Christ at the cross. It is a gift.

I see that you follow Satan.


Human sacrifice is evil and your God demanding one and accepting one is evil.

You trying to profit from that evil is evil. Do just a bit of thinking and you will agree.

Imagine you have two children. One of your children does something wrong – say it curses, or throws a temper tantrum, or something like that. In fact, say it does this on a regular basis, and you continually forgive your child, but it never seems to change.

Now suppose one day you’ve had enough, you need to do something different. You still wish to forgive your child, but nothing has worked. Do you go to your second child, your good child, and punish it to atone for the sins of the first?

In fact, if you ever saw a parent on the street punish one of their children for the actions of their other child, how would you react? Would you support their decision, or would you be offended? Because God punished Jesus -- his good child -- for the sins of his other children.

Interestingly, some historical royal families would beat their slaves when their own children did wrong – you should not, after all, ever beat a prince. The question is: what kind of lesson does that teach the child who actually did the harm? Does it teach them to be a better person, to stop doing harm, or does it teach them both that they won't themselves be punished, and also that punishing other people is normal? I know that's not a lesson I would want to teach my children, and I suspect it's not a lesson most Christians would want to teach theirs. So why does God?

For me, that’s at least one significant reason I find Jesus’ atonement of our sin to be morally repugnant – of course, that’s assuming Jesus ever existed; that original sin actually exists; that God actually exists; etc.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Do you agree?

If not, please show how it is morally and legally good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty, bearing in mind that all legal systems think that punishing the guilty is what is justice.

Regards
DL

 

[jillian]

God’s decree. No punishment after death for men.


A good God must be a huge hearted Universalist God. If not then he is a satanic loser. All are equal before God. If not then God would not be righteous. God forbid.


Gnostic Scriptures and Fragments: Epiphanes - On Righteousness


It must then follow that there is no punishment of man after death. Intelligently, God creates all for the best of all possible ends. This is also a natural law.


Only a loser of a God would have a heaven and a hell. Only a poor shepherd would lose a huge part of his flock.


Is your God a Universalist God?


Regards

DL

er,,,, yokie dokie

 

[The Irish Ram]

God created Heaven for the angels, Earth for His children, and Hell for Satan and the fallen angels, and demons, and for those humans who choose to follow Satan. To avoid Hell, accept the gift of propitiation offered by Christ at the cross. It is a gift.

I see that you follow Satan.


Human sacrifice is evil and your God demanding one and accepting one is evil.

You trying to profit from that evil is evil. Do just a bit of thinking and you will agree.

Imagine you have two children. One of your children does something wrong – say it curses, or throws a temper tantrum, or something like that. In fact, say it does this on a regular basis, and you continually forgive your child, but it never seems to change.

Now suppose one day you’ve had enough, you need to do something different. You still wish to forgive your child, but nothing has worked. Do you go to your second child, your good child, and punish it to atone for the sins of the first?

In fact, if you ever saw a parent on the street punish one of their children for the actions of their other child, how would you react? Would you support their decision, or would you be offended? Because God punished Jesus -- his good child -- for the sins of his other children.

Interestingly, some historical royal families would beat their slaves when their own children did wrong – you should not, after all, ever beat a prince. The question is: what kind of lesson does that teach the child who actually did the harm? Does it teach them to be a better person, to stop doing harm, or does it teach them both that they won't themselves be punished, and also that punishing other people is normal? I know that's not a lesson I would want to teach my children, and I suspect it's not a lesson most Christians would want to teach theirs. So why does God?

For me, that’s at least one significant reason I find Jesus’ atonement of our sin to be morally repugnant – of course, that’s assuming Jesus ever existed; that original sin actually exists; that God actually exists; etc.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Do you agree?

If not, please show how it is morally and legally good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty, bearing in mind that all legal systems think that punishing the guilty is what is justice.

Regards
DL

Shit DL, your gonna hate this:

John 10:17-18 For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again.

Much like a soldier jumping on a grenade to save his fellow soldiers, there is no greater sacrifice than laying down one's life for a friend. Sin is a blood issue. It required a pure blood transfusion. Christ offered His. Free of charge.

 

[GreatestIam]

God created Heaven for the angels, Earth for His children, and Hell for Satan and the fallen angels, and demons, and for those humans who choose to follow Satan. To avoid Hell, accept the gift of propitiation offered by Christ at the cross. It is a gift.

I see that you follow Satan.


Human sacrifice is evil and your God demanding one and accepting one is evil.

You trying to profit from that evil is evil. Do just a bit of thinking and you will agree.

Imagine you have two children. One of your children does something wrong – say it curses, or throws a temper tantrum, or something like that. In fact, say it does this on a regular basis, and you continually forgive your child, but it never seems to change.

Now suppose one day you’ve had enough, you need to do something different. You still wish to forgive your child, but nothing has worked. Do you go to your second child, your good child, and punish it to atone for the sins of the first?

In fact, if you ever saw a parent on the street punish one of their children for the actions of their other child, how would you react? Would you support their decision, or would you be offended? Because God punished Jesus -- his good child -- for the sins of his other children.

Interestingly, some historical royal families would beat their slaves when their own children did wrong – you should not, after all, ever beat a prince. The question is: what kind of lesson does that teach the child who actually did the harm? Does it teach them to be a better person, to stop doing harm, or does it teach them both that they won't themselves be punished, and also that punishing other people is normal? I know that's not a lesson I would want to teach my children, and I suspect it's not a lesson most Christians would want to teach theirs. So why does God?

For me, that’s at least one significant reason I find Jesus’ atonement of our sin to be morally repugnant – of course, that’s assuming Jesus ever existed; that original sin actually exists; that God actually exists; etc.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Do you agree?

If not, please show how it is morally and legally good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty, bearing in mind that all legal systems think that punishing the guilty is what is justice.

Regards
DL

Shit DL, your gonna hate this:

John 10:17-18 For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again.

Much like a soldier jumping on a grenade to save his fellow soldiers, there is no greater sacrifice than laying down one's life for a friend. Sin is a blood issue. It required a pure blood transfusion. Christ offered His. Free of charge.

Not fee. Jesus said he was doing God's will and not his own.

Your right that to give up ones life for friends id praiseworthy but you also notice that Jesus only did it because he knew he was not really dying in any permanent way.

You also ignore in your grenade scenario, that God is throwing the grenade at us and forcing Jesus to lay on it.

Have you read these in you bible.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Those are telling you that having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

And you are following that immoral moral tenet.

Regards
DL

 

[The Irish Ram]

If I want to win a spelling bee and my father wants me to win the spelling bee, does that mean my dad forced me to participate in the spelling bee?

I lay down my life on my own initiative means He laid down His life on his own initiative. No one has taken it from me, means no one has taken it from Him. No one means NO ONE.
Regards
IR

 

[BreezeWood]

It must then follow that there is no punishment of man after death. Intelligently, God creates all for the best of all possible ends. This is also a natural law.

the above is correct, the religion from the Almighty is simply - The Triumph of Good vs Evil that requires any being to be admitted to the Everlasting to accomplish the set goal for admission.

Had those days myself DL, had those days myself.
Fires

google the guy, he's a paid poster or worse.

.

 

[GreatestIam]

If I want to win a spelling bee and my father wants me to win the spelling bee, does that mean my dad forced me to participate in the spelling bee?

I lay down my life on my own initiative means He laid down His life on his own initiative. No one has taken it from me, means no one has taken it from Him. No one means NO ONE.
Regards
IR

If he puts your name in as a contestant then he is choosing for you and you are not choosing for yourself.

That is what God did.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

You are cherry picking as badly as I am.

Go read the sermon on the mount and see how Jesus was whining to God to remove his request and come back and chat on the morality of substitutionary atonement and lets stop screwing around.

Morality is supposed to be what religions are all about. Right?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

It must then follow that there is no punishment of man after death. Intelligently, God creates all for the best of all possible ends. This is also a natural law.

the above is correct, the religion from the Almighty is simply - The Triumph of Good vs Evil that requires any being to be admitted to the Everlasting to accomplish the set goal for admission.

Had those days myself DL, had those days myself.
Fires

google the guy, he's a paid poster or worse.

.

I am quite prolific aren't I.

Nice that you have joined my fan club.

The goal for admission includes you accepting substitutionary atonement.

Do you agree that having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

IOW, are you responsible for your own sins?

Let me help you here.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Do you disagree with those quotes?

Regards
DL

 

[The Irish Ram]

If I want to win a spelling bee and my father wants me to win the spelling bee, does that mean my dad forced me to participate in the spelling bee?

I lay down my life on my own initiative means He laid down His life on his own initiative. No one has taken it from me, means no one has taken it from Him. No one means NO ONE.
Regards
IR

If he puts your name in as a contestant then he is choosing for you and you are not choosing for yourself.

That is what God did.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

You are cherry picking as badly as I am.

Go read the sermon on the mount and see how Jesus was whining to God to remove his request and come back and chat on the morality of substitutionary atonement and lets stop screwing around.

Morality is supposed to be what religions are all about. Right?

Regards
DL

God didn't nominate Christ for the job.
Before the foundation of the earth was formed, Christ volunteered for the position. His request was approved. The earth was formed. Jesus, the Christ, laid his life down and took it back up again of his own volition. He was the offerer, and the offering.
Christianity is about loving your Father and each other. Period.

 

[BreezeWood]

The goal for admission includes you accepting substitutionary atonement.

the spoken religion from the Almighty makes no mention of a messiah and is an explicit determination for each being.

.

 

[GreatestIam]

If I want to win a spelling bee and my father wants me to win the spelling bee, does that mean my dad forced me to participate in the spelling bee?

I lay down my life on my own initiative means He laid down His life on his own initiative. No one has taken it from me, means no one has taken it from Him. No one means NO ONE.
Regards
IR

If he puts your name in as a contestant then he is choosing for you and you are not choosing for yourself.

That is what God did.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

You are cherry picking as badly as I am.

Go read the sermon on the mount and see how Jesus was whining to God to remove his request and come back and chat on the morality of substitutionary atonement and lets stop screwing around.

Morality is supposed to be what religions are all about. Right?

Regards
DL

God didn't nominate Christ for the job.
Before the foundation of the earth was formed, Christ volunteered for the position. His request was approved. The earth was formed. Jesus, the Christ, laid his life down and took it back up again of his own volition. He was the offerer, and the offering.
Christianity is about loving your Father and each other. Period.

You deny the bible verse I quoted and return with your own opinion and not the bibles.

I appreciate where you would not trust your bible but if you are to attempt to refute what I quoted, then get the bible to say it. Unless you have decided to scrap it all and put your opinion ahead of it.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

The goal for admission includes you accepting substitutionary atonement.

the spoken religion from the Almighty makes no mention of a messiah and is an explicit determination for each being.

.

Christians are the people of the book. They have no spoken tradition the way the Jews do.

Are you saying that in your version of belief that Jesus did not die for you?

If not, how are you saved?

Regards
DL

 

[BreezeWood]

The goal for admission includes you accepting substitutionary atonement.

the spoken religion from the Almighty makes no mention of a messiah and is an explicit determination for each being.

.

Christians are the people of the book. They have no spoken tradition the way the Jews do.

Are you saying that in your version of belief that Jesus did not die for you?

If not, how are you saved?

Regards
DL

only the written bibles are religion specific - the spoken religion from those eras to this day and their reference to the written accounts is as associated to the Almighty as the written text through the test of time.

They have no spoken tradition the way the Jews do.

but the Jews also for some reason believe there is a need for a messiah and Jewishness is a blood line.

Are you saying that in your version of belief that Jesus did not die for you?

there is nothing written by Jesus or the Almighty to indicate he was dying to remove other peoples sins - the spoken religion has to this day preserved what Jesus said on the cross -

Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani 'My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?'

If not, how are you saved?

the religion from the Almighty is the parable of Noah - The Triumph of Good vs Evil. however accomplished from salvation or the simple pursuit admittance to the Everlasting is accomplished by the triumph of one over the other and with the Triumph a rendering given by the Almighty to attain admission.

.

 

[The Irish Ram]

If I want to win a spelling bee and my father wants me to win the spelling bee, does that mean my dad forced me to participate in the spelling bee?

I lay down my life on my own initiative means He laid down His life on his own initiative. No one has taken it from me, means no one has taken it from Him. No one means NO ONE.
Regards
IR

If he puts your name in as a contestant then he is choosing for you and you are not choosing for yourself.

That is what God did.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

You are cherry picking as badly as I am.

Go read the sermon on the mount and see how Jesus was whining to God to remove his request and come back and chat on the morality of substitutionary atonement and lets stop screwing around.

Morality is supposed to be what religions are all about. Right?

Regards
DL

God didn't nominate Christ for the job.
Before the foundation of the earth was formed, Christ volunteered for the position. His request was approved. The earth was formed. Jesus, the Christ, laid his life down and took it back up again of his own volition. He was the offerer, and the offering.
Christianity is about loving your Father and each other. Period.

You deny the bible verse I quoted and return with your own opinion and not the bibles.

I appreciate where you would not trust your bible but if you are to attempt to refute what I quoted, then get the bible to say it. Unless you have decided to scrap it all and put your opinion ahead of it.

Regards
DL

Just trying to get through to that thick head of yours. Quoting the Bible doesn't accomplish that. I'm quite sure that you understated what Christ said. You choose to ignore it and push on with your lying anti-Christian bullshit. Here, lets try it again:

John 10:18
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up.

No one means no one.

If that sinks in, we'll move on to what God prophesied about Ishmael, and who the Quran says really owns Israel...........

 

[GreatestIam]

The goal for admission includes you accepting substitutionary atonement.

the spoken religion from the Almighty makes no mention of a messiah and is an explicit determination for each being.

.

Christians are the people of the book. They have no spoken tradition the way the Jews do.

Are you saying that in your version of belief that Jesus did not die for you?

If not, how are you saved?

Regards
DL

only the written bibles are religion specific - the spoken religion from those eras to this day and their reference to the written accounts is as associated to the Almighty as the written text through the test of time.

They have no spoken tradition the way the Jews do.

but the Jews also for some reason believe there is a need for a messiah and Jewishness is a blood line.

Are you saying that in your version of belief that Jesus did not die for you?

there is nothing written by Jesus or the Almighty to indicate he was dying to remove other peoples sins - the spoken religion has to this day preserved what Jesus said on the cross -

Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani 'My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?'

If not, how are you saved?

the religion from the Almighty is the parable of Noah - The Triumph of Good vs Evil. however accomplished from salvation or the simple pursuit admittance to the Everlasting is accomplished by the triumph of one over the other and with the Triumph a rendering given by the Almighty to attain admission.

.

I am not aware of any spoken or oral Christianity. I am aware of a Jewish one.

That quote you gave is in the bible so to say it is a part of the oral tradition is strange.

The messiah that the Jews await is a pure man and not a God. That man is to live and rule over the Jews. Not die for them and not return.

No one I have ever spoken to has ever indicated that there was an oral Christian tradition. I will take a link if you have one.

Regards
DL