Goodbye Religious Freedom

[Anguille]

So if a cop's religion is Rastfarianism, he doesn't have to bust Rastas who are smoking their sacrament?

LOL! excellent point.

 

[Inferno]

hired to do? these doctors OWN their own private practices....they went to school for 8-12 years, they paid for their education, they used their money to open their own business, they took the appropriate tests that showed their competency....the gvt had no part of that....

nearly every occupation needs a license, you are giving up our first amendment rights because the gvt issues a licence? you've got to be kidding? sheesh, hairdressers need a license, public accountants, day care providers.....what does a license have to do with the first amendment for goodness sakes?

care

They discriminated on religious grounds. I could maybe hear a disagreement if the vote was 4-3. The vote wasn't it was 7-0. They lost because of discrimination. In a business you can't discriminate. It has nothing to do with first amendment rights. They can say what they want about gays. They can have any opinion they want. They just can't discriminate against then.

You can say the same for "Civil Rights". You can be a bigot but you can't discriminate and say i won't do such and such because someone is not the same color as you. It is the same with orientation. Just because they are not straight like I am I won't do this. That is discrimination. You can say what you want 1st amendment you can't discriminate. That's the bottom line.

 

[Ravi]

They discriminated on religious grounds. I could maybe hear a disagreement if the vote was 4-3. The vote wasn't it was 7-0. They lost because of discrimination. In a business you can't discriminate. It has nothing to do with first amendment rights. They can say what they want about gays. They can have any opinion they want. They just can't discriminate against then.

You can say the same for "Civil Rights". You can be a bigot but you can't discriminate and say i won't do such and such because someone is not the same color as you. It is the same with orientation. Just because they are not straight like I am I won't do this. That is discrimination. You can say what you want 1st amendment you can't discriminate. That's the bottom line.

The thing is, it's none of the doctor's business if the woman is a lesbian or not. Women are genetically predisposed to have children and he denied her a natural right.

That said, if a doctor ever indicated he or she didn't like me for some reason, I'd be out of there before the paper nightgown was on the chair.

 

[Anguille]

The thing is, it's none of the doctor's business if the woman is a lesbian or not. Women are genetically predisposed to have children and he denied her a natural right.

That said, if a doctor ever indicated he or she didn't like me for some reason, I'd be out of there before the paper nightgown was on the chair.

Same here, I wouldn't allow any doctor to perform a medical procedure if that doctor had expressed a reluctance to do so for anything other than medical reasons. I'd find another doctor.
BUT I wouldn't let that first doctor continue to abuse patients in that manner. I'd make a complaint to the medical board and I would seek legal counsel as to whether my civil rights had been abused. It wouldn't make a difference to me if I, myself, had only been slightly inconvenienced in having to go to a second doctor. In rural and poor areas this kind of discrimination causes serious problems and should not be tolerated.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Same here, I wouldn't allow any doctor to perform a medical procedure if that doctor had expressed a reluctance to do so for anything other than medical reasons. I'd find another doctor.
BUT I wouldn't let that first doctor continue to abuse patients in that manner. I'd make a complaint to the medical board and I would seek legal counsel as to whether my civil rights had been abused. It wouldn't make a difference to me if I, myself, had only been slightly inconvenienced in having to go to a second doctor. In rural and poor areas this kind of discrimination causes serious problems and should not be tolerated.

You guys are amazing. Abuse? They offered to pay to have another doctor see her. And last I checked unless a business works for the Government they can in fact deny service.

Tell ya what when the government starts paying for doctors education then they can dictate to them who they can not refuse to treat for ELECTIVE procedures.

 

[Anguille]

it has nothing to do with a religious theocracy Midcan, to some it does have something to do with religious FREEDOM, the First Amendment, and what it stands for and what it means to have that right....which includes the government, to stay out of individual's religion....i don't see that happening, with this decision....and yes, this individual doctor discriminately chose not to service this couple with a procedure...doctors do this all the time, when they choose or not choose to take on a surgery for someone....for instance, with plastic surgeons...many are now being more discriminatory with performing repeated elective plastic surgeries, to make them look younger patients and turning them down, for ethical reasons and even recommending psychiatrists for them.....

This doctor immediately gave the couple a referral to a doctor that would perform the invitro and even offered to pay for it....

What these women did, was extremely selfish and not giving the same due to the doctor's religious concerns as they expected to get for their own concerns, imo...AND it was set up...from the beginning of this couple, to sue this doctor when turned down, is how it looks to me....and that does not sit well, one iota....

this was not a life threatening situation, this was an elective surgery, such as a face lift....and the doctors accomodated the couple immediately, with no ill will....that counts for something in my book but obviously not for this couple that had an ax to grind, where the other person's Right which the very first amendment in the Bill of Rights gives us, was not even a nano second of a thought, in their selfish little heads....and yes, this might be harsh...but it is still what i see in this whole case....

Care

Care, I can understand your concern for protecting religious freedom but in this case someone's religious freedom prevented other freedoms.

The trouble with protecting religious freedom is that you run into situations where people with certain agendas claim God or the Bible or whatever told them to do what they do and who can argue with them because who can prove that God or whatever did or didn't tell them to do what they are trying to do.
If these doctors want to pick and choose, according to religious reasons NOT medical reasons, who they will reward with their services and if these reasons are in direct opposition to anti discrimination laws and equality, then the doctors are in the wrong. They have abused their position as persons of authority to promote their anti-gay agenda.
some people need to realize freedom of religion also means freedom from religion and from religious oppression.

 

[Anguille]

You guys are amazing. Abuse? They offered to pay to have another doctor see her. And last I checked unless a business works for the Government they can in fact deny service.

Tell ya what when the government starts paying for doctors education then they can dictate to them who they can not refuse to treat for ELECTIVE procedures.

As usual you have not understood the issue and say something immensely retarded.

*yawn*

 

[Shogun]

Here's the thing though, Ang... it's not as if these docs were the ONLY option available to these women. There WERE other docs who could provide the service.

Also, where is the "right to get pregnant" stated in any government document and how does this usurp the supremacy of the First Amendment? I am biologically able to take a shit. Does this give me free reign to do so on your living room couch? This is the same type of problem I have with lactivists who think starbucks owes them more than coffee just for getting knocked up.

being gay is not a federally protected status and, if anything, these docs will just move out of state and provide plenty of campaign fodder for republicans come this fall.

 

[Shogun]

As usual you have not understood the issue and say something immensely retarded.

*yawn*

no, i think he understands just as well as you do. Why don't you try responding to his point instead of avoiding his position?

tell me, Ang.. should a christian doctor be required to give you a penis just because you want a sex change operation?

 

[Anguille]

no, i think he understands just as well as you do. Why don't you try responding to his point instead of avoiding his position?

tell me, Ang.. should a christian doctor be required to give you a penis just because you want a sex change operation?

Yes. If the doctor regularly provides this service and there is no medical or financial or non discriminatory reason for denying it to me. If the doctor says, "Atheist women should not have penises and so I refuse to stick one on Anguille, not even a toothpick one like, Shogun's.", then the doctor is in violation of the law. Get it, dumbass?

 

[Shogun]

Yes. If the doctor regularly provides this service and there is no medical or financial or non discriminatory reason for denying it to me. If the doctor says, "Atheist women should not have penises and so I refuse to stick one on Anguille, not even a toothpick one like, Shogun's.", then the doctor is in violation of the law. Get it, dumbass?

I disagree. Your hostility indicates that you see the fragile logic of your own position. If the service is provided by any number of alternate doctors who are willing to perform the procedure as it doesn't conflict with THEIR first amendment rights you have no basis to claim discrimination.

Which, AGAIN, show me where getting pregnant is a "right" in the first place that usurps the supremacy of the first amendment. I'll remind you, sexuality is not a federally protected status and, clearly, the first amendment rights of these docs have been shat upon. Before you even start, RACE IS a federally protected status. Now, please, what is the supremacy clause again? AND, are you blind enough to miss how this is just another brick in the pink cobble stone path to the election this fall?

 

[Ravi]

I disagree. Your hostility indicates that you see the fragile logic of your own position. If the service is provided by any number of alternate doctors who are willing to perform the procedure as it doesn't conflict with THEIR first amendment rights you have no basis to claim discrimination.

Which, AGAIN, show me where getting pregnant is a "right" in the first place that usurps the supremacy of the first amendment. I'll remind you, sexuality is not a federally protected status and, clearly, the first amendment rights of these docs have been shat upon. Before you even start, RACE IS a federally protected status. Now, please, what is the supremacy clause again? AND, are you blind enough to miss how this is just another brick in the pink cobble stone path to the election this fall?

She's killing you with logic.

Interesting though that you don't think pregnancy is a right. I suppose we now need your permission to get pregnant.

 

[Anguille]

I disagree. Your hostility indicates that you see the fragile logic of your own position. If the service is provided by any number of alternate doctors who are willing to perform the procedure as it doesn't conflict with THEIR first amendment rights you have no basis to claim discrimination.

Which, AGAIN, show me where getting pregnant is a "right" in the first place that usurps the supremacy of the first amendment. I'll remind you, sexuality is not a federally protected status and, clearly, the first amendment rights of these docs have been shat upon. Before you even start, RACE IS a federally protected status. Now, please, what is the supremacy clause again? AND, are you blind enough to miss how this is just another brick in the pink cobble stone path to the election this fall?

Sure, and the people at Denny's can just tell the darkies to go down the street to Applebee's because the good Lord told them not to serve nigras.

 

[Shogun]

She's killing you with logic.

Interesting though that you don't think pregnancy is a right. I suppose we now need your permission to get pregnant.

Can you point out this "killing"? I mean, it doesn't shock me that you'd think swipes at the size of my dick amounts to such but, hey.. you ARE ravi. She hasn't addressed a single point i've made.. and, SHOCKER, neither have you.


and, I asked where YOU think pregnancy as a right comes from. Can you point out the specific amendment? the specific document? You see, im just not impressed by your opinion enough to take your word for it. Now take your bleeding pussy to google and respond with something a bit more interesting than predictable blather.

 

[Anguille]

I suppose we now need your permission to get pregnant.

LOL! Before long we won't even be allowed to get half pregnant!!

Waaaaaah!

 

[Shogun]

Sure, and the people at Denny's can just tell the darkies to go down the street to Applebee's because the good Lord told them not to serve nigras.

Again, and I knew you'd run strait to that weak comparison, RACE is a federally protected status. Sexual orientation IN NOT.

now, did you want to try again or shall I watch the both of you writhe on the ground in the shadow of my girthy masculinity?

 

[Ravi]

Can you point out this "killing"? I mean, it doesn't shock me that you'd think swipes at the size of my dick amounts to such but, hey.. you ARE ravi. She hasn't addressed a single point i've made.. and, SHOCKER, neither have you.


and, I asked where YOU think pregnancy as a right comes from. Can you point out the specific amendment? the specific document? You see, im just not impressed by your opinion enough to take your word for it. Now take your bleeding pussy to google and respond with something a bit more interesting than predictable blather.

Only a retard would think there must be an amendment to grant someone the right to be pregnant. I give up on you, you are an idiot squared.

 

[Shogun]

LOL! Before long we won't even be allowed to get half pregnant!!

Waaaaaah!

still waiting for you to show me what document states that pregnancy is your natural right. Trust me, it's not missed that you have to grab for a turd instead of evidence.

 

[Ravi]

my girthy masculinity?

Try a diet, chubby.

 

[Shogun]

Only a retard would think there must be an amendment to grant someone the right to be pregnant. I give up on you, you are an idiot squared.

no, only an idiot would assume that you have rights despite the laws of this nation. I take it that you don't have an answer then?

gosh.. im SHOCKED. I mean, it's SO RARE that you have nothing to offer these threads!