Gun control in Europe..now the left will change the debate...

[2aguy]

I never point a gun at anything I don't intend to destroy and don't know anyone who would. BTW, my guns probably have as many miles on them as my vehicles do and not one has discharged unless I told it to.

Guns are dangerous by design. Pretending they aren't seems just silly to me. How many hours a week do you shoot?

Guns are 100% safe if used properly. I've had guns more than 50 years, used them hunting, target shooting, in the military in a war zone and training. with no unintended discharges. Now I fire 10-20 rounds a week just to stay familiar with the guns I carry, there's no need to spend hours a week shooting unless you do it competitively.

Yes, but with 17,000 accidental shootings each year there are obviously plenty of people who can't use them properly. And those are just the ones that cause injury/death. There are no doubt many more where people are lucky and no one is injured.

It doesn't take very long to shoot 10-20 rounds. You have to be spending way more time driving each week.

So now we're moving the goal posts again, should we also count all the fender benders in the auto stats and the number of times loaded guns are handled but never fired? I think that would alter the stats considerably, don't you?

My point was that they aren't 100% safe. It really depends on who the person is.

cars are worse….and we let 16 year olds use them without supervision in traffic..with pedestrians…..

 

[2aguy]

As I posted elsewhere....if the Paris attack had happened here first the anti gun left would have been all over it...demanding, again....

Assault weapon bans

Magazine bans

licensing gun owners

Registering guns

Universal background checks


the works.....and that would be before the blood had dried...,


Sadly for them, it happened in France first.....a country that has done every single thing the left wants here for gun control...and the French wheat even farther....they don't have assault weapon bans...they banned all military style guns for civilians..including pistols...they didn't limit magazines to 10 rounds...they banned all magazines....they license people who own hunting shotguns and require background checks and mental health checks

every last thing the American anti gun extremists only dream of when they are talking about gun owners and their sex organs......


but..........

it happened in France.....that is why the anti gun extremists have been so quiet about gun control....they hope we won't notice....

but we did notice...

Now thy have to do the magic trick......they have to change things around and where they argued that Europe was a gun control paradise....now they have to convince everyone that Europe is really worse than we are....

that they never really argued that Europe was a gun control paradise...that France is actually worse than Texas......as they argued it......and then they push this idea as if it was always what they believed......

Beware...the left wing gun grabbers are changing the debate....don't let them...

I'd like to do all those things. But I'm OK with ccw holders. I think more law abiding citizens should be carrying. In Michigan there is nothing stopping you. Just take the test and pass a background check.

I don't think I should have to get a ccw permit to carry a gun. Do you?

Do you think citizens carrying guns and engaging with the terrorists is what should happen?

Why don't we sell guns to every Saudi or Afghanistan citizen? If Republicans truly believe good people with guns is the answer, why not arm every Iraqi citizens and let the majority that are good but currently powerless deal with the bad guys? Or in Syria.

I think we should arm the citizens in those countries……how exactly has only allowing the governments of Iraq and Syria faired for the normal people of those countries? that is what the gun grabbers want…right…only the government should have guns….like in Iraq and Syria….

I think that normal Americans should have the option to have a gun for self defense against criminals and terrorists….

 

[2aguy]

Accurately Comparing Death Rates from Motor Vehicle and Firearm Use

Deaths per round fired- 1 per 475 thousand (475,000)

Deaths per mile of motor vehicle travel- 1 per 60 million (60,000,000)

So if you look only at accidental rates you would have

1 in 100,000,000 accidental auto deaths per miles driven and
1 in 300,000,000 accidental gun deaths per rounds fired, wouldn't that make cars 3 times more dangerous?

You link also showed how dishonest Old Rocks graph was, it only used accidental deaths for motor vehicles and all gun deaths. Instead of the graph showing about 36 thousand motor vehicle deaths it should have been 50 thousand to make an honest comparison. Just shows how dishonest gun grabbers are.

What I also found interesting, just as many kill themselves with autos as guns, I wonder why gun grabbers never mention that?

Accurately Comparing Death Rates from Motor Vehicle and Firearm Use

Deaths per round fired- 1 per 475 thousand (475,000)

Deaths per mile of motor vehicle travel- 1 per 60 million (60,000,000)

So if you look only at accidental rates you would have

1 in 100,000,000 accidental auto deaths per miles driven and
1 in 300,000,000 accidental gun deaths per rounds fired, wouldn't that make cars 3 times more dangerous?

You link also showed how dishonest Old Rocks graph was, it only used accidental deaths for motor vehicles and all gun deaths. Instead of the graph showing about 36 thousand motor vehicle deaths it should have been 50 thousand to make an honest comparison. Just shows how dishonest gun grabbers are.

What I also found interesting, just as many kill themselves with autos as guns, I wonder why gun grabbers never mention that?

Think you have some bad math. 1 per 24,000,000 for gun accidents. 4X more dangerous than cars.

Guns are only as dangerous as the ones using them... In most cases guns are harmless.

Less dangerous than cars.....if you have a car and a gun..you will more likely be killed by the car...start walking....

I just showed they are more dangerous than cars based on use. A gun in a safe kills nobody, a car in a garage kills nobody. But if using them the rate of accidental death with guns is much higher.

That is not true…..more than a few cars have caught on fire in a garage and burnt down homes…just sitting there…all on their lonesome…..guns don't even do that...

 

[Brain357]

Ah. Well cars are used millions of times more than guns. Why is it you would not think guns are more dangerous? What is it like at your gun range? Do people just walk around pointing guns at each other? At the gun range I go to we are very careful, for obvious reasons....

I never point a gun at anything I don't intend to destroy and don't know anyone who would. BTW, my guns probably have as many miles on them as my vehicles do and not one has discharged unless I told it to.

Guns are dangerous by design. Pretending they aren't seems just silly to me. How many hours a week do you shoot?

Guns are 100% safe if used properly. I've had guns more than 50 years, used them hunting, target shooting, in the military in a war zone and training. with no unintended discharges. Now I fire 10-20 rounds a week just to stay familiar with the guns I carry, there's no need to spend hours a week shooting unless you do it competitively.

Yes, but with 17,000 accidental shootings each year there are obviously plenty of people who can't use them properly. And those are just the ones that cause injury/death. There are no doubt many more where people are lucky and no one is injured.

It doesn't take very long to shoot 10-20 rounds. You have to be spending way more time driving each week.

Most of those are probably cops…..

Some are. If you ever see a stat if be curious.

 

[2aguy]

As I posted elsewhere....if the Paris attack had happened here first the anti gun left would have been all over it...demanding, again....

Assault weapon bans

Magazine bans

licensing gun owners

Registering guns

Universal background checks


the works.....and that would be before the blood had dried...,


Sadly for them, it happened in France first.....a country that has done every single thing the left wants here for gun control...and the French wheat even farther....they don't have assault weapon bans...they banned all military style guns for civilians..including pistols...they didn't limit magazines to 10 rounds...they banned all magazines....they license people who own hunting shotguns and require background checks and mental health checks

every last thing the American anti gun extremists only dream of when they are talking about gun owners and their sex organs......


but..........

it happened in France.....that is why the anti gun extremists have been so quiet about gun control....they hope we won't notice....

but we did notice...

Now thy have to do the magic trick......they have to change things around and where they argued that Europe was a gun control paradise....now they have to convince everyone that Europe is really worse than we are....

that they never really argued that Europe was a gun control paradise...that France is actually worse than Texas......as they argued it......and then they push this idea as if it was always what they believed......

Beware...the left wing gun grabbers are changing the debate....don't let them...

I'd like to do all those things. But I'm OK with ccw holders. I think more law abiding citizens should be carrying. In Michigan there is nothing stopping you. Just take the test and pass a background check.

I don't think I should have to get a ccw permit to carry a gun. Do you?

Do you think citizens carrying guns and engaging with the terrorists is what should happen?

Why don't we sell guns to every Saudi or Afghanistan citizen? If Republicans truly believe good people with guns is the answer, why not arm every Iraqi citizens and let the majority that are good but currently powerless deal with the bad guys? Or in Syria.

I still don't understand why you would want all of those things that do nothing to stop or prevent crime or mass shootings….but they make felony traps for law abiding citizens who screw up paperwork……and then destroy their lives over the paperwork screw up…what kind of thinking is that?

 

[2aguy]

I never point a gun at anything I don't intend to destroy and don't know anyone who would. BTW, my guns probably have as many miles on them as my vehicles do and not one has discharged unless I told it to.

Guns are dangerous by design. Pretending they aren't seems just silly to me. How many hours a week do you shoot?

Guns are 100% safe if used properly. I've had guns more than 50 years, used them hunting, target shooting, in the military in a war zone and training. with no unintended discharges. Now I fire 10-20 rounds a week just to stay familiar with the guns I carry, there's no need to spend hours a week shooting unless you do it competitively.

Yes, but with 17,000 accidental shootings each year there are obviously plenty of people who can't use them properly. And those are just the ones that cause injury/death. There are no doubt many more where people are lucky and no one is injured.

It doesn't take very long to shoot 10-20 rounds. You have to be spending way more time driving each week.

Most of those are probably cops…..

Some are. If you ever see a stat if be curious.

Most gun accidents…..are….

ABC News reports on guns mislead Americans | Fox News

Consider the following statistics from the Pediatrics article:

- The injury rate for black males 15 to 19 years old was 13 times higher than for white males.

- 84 percent of the injuries were for 15 to 19 year olds and 62 percent as a result of criminal assaults. These injuries don’t occur from young children accidentally mishandling a gun in their own home, but rather as victims of brutal crimes, often gang related.

If the study had broken down the numbers further, one would see that most of these injuries were for 17, 18, and 19-year-olds.

For example, in 2012, the Centers for Disease Control reports that 76% of firearm injuries were for those under age 20 were for 17, 18, and 19 year olds.

This is hardly the impression ABC News created by showing pictures and stories of young children while mentioning the 7,391 injuries.

So what does all this mean? If we want to reduce these injuries, we need to focus our resources on gang violence.

And normal law-abiding citizens locking up their guns will not reduce gang violence.

So what about gun accidents for little children? They are extremely rare. For all children under age 10, the Centers for Disease Control reports that for 2010 (the latest year available) there were 36 accidental gun deaths, and that is out of 41 million children living in the United States.

In addition, two thirds of these accidental gun deaths involving young children are not shots fired by other little kids but rather by adult males with criminal backgrounds. Unless you send your child to play over at a criminal's home, your child is exceedingly unlikely to get shot.

 

[Brain357]

Guns are dangerous by design. Pretending they aren't seems just silly to me. How many hours a week do you shoot?

Guns are 100% safe if used properly. I've had guns more than 50 years, used them hunting, target shooting, in the military in a war zone and training. with no unintended discharges. Now I fire 10-20 rounds a week just to stay familiar with the guns I carry, there's no need to spend hours a week shooting unless you do it competitively.

Yes, but with 17,000 accidental shootings each year there are obviously plenty of people who can't use them properly. And those are just the ones that cause injury/death. There are no doubt many more where people are lucky and no one is injured.

It doesn't take very long to shoot 10-20 rounds. You have to be spending way more time driving each week.

So now we're moving the goal posts again, should we also count all the fender benders in the auto stats and the number of times loaded guns are handled but never fired? I think that would alter the stats considerably, don't you?

My point was that they aren't 100% safe. It really depends on who the person is.

cars are worse….and we let 16 year olds use them without supervision in traffic..with pedestrians…..

No I showed pretty clearly guns are worse and that's with 16 year old drivers. Imagine if 16 year olds were running around with guns.

 

[2aguy]

Guns are 100% safe if used properly. I've had guns more than 50 years, used them hunting, target shooting, in the military in a war zone and training. with no unintended discharges. Now I fire 10-20 rounds a week just to stay familiar with the guns I carry, there's no need to spend hours a week shooting unless you do it competitively.

Yes, but with 17,000 accidental shootings each year there are obviously plenty of people who can't use them properly. And those are just the ones that cause injury/death. There are no doubt many more where people are lucky and no one is injured.

It doesn't take very long to shoot 10-20 rounds. You have to be spending way more time driving each week.

So now we're moving the goal posts again, should we also count all the fender benders in the auto stats and the number of times loaded guns are handled but never fired? I think that would alter the stats considerably, don't you?

My point was that they aren't 100% safe. It really depends on who the person is.

cars are worse….and we let 16 year olds use them without supervision in traffic..with pedestrians…..

No I showed pretty clearly guns are worse and that's with 16 year old drivers. Imagine if 16 year olds were running around with guns.

They are…they live in democrat neighborhoods……and do most of the criminal shooting…...

 

[OKTexas]

I never point a gun at anything I don't intend to destroy and don't know anyone who would. BTW, my guns probably have as many miles on them as my vehicles do and not one has discharged unless I told it to.

Guns are dangerous by design. Pretending they aren't seems just silly to me. How many hours a week do you shoot?

Guns are 100% safe if used properly. I've had guns more than 50 years, used them hunting, target shooting, in the military in a war zone and training. with no unintended discharges. Now I fire 10-20 rounds a week just to stay familiar with the guns I carry, there's no need to spend hours a week shooting unless you do it competitively.

Yes, but with 17,000 accidental shootings each year there are obviously plenty of people who can't use them properly. And those are just the ones that cause injury/death. There are no doubt many more where people are lucky and no one is injured.

It doesn't take very long to shoot 10-20 rounds. You have to be spending way more time driving each week.

So now we're moving the goal posts again, should we also count all the fender benders in the auto stats and the number of times loaded guns are handled but never fired? I think that would alter the stats considerably, don't you?

My point was that they aren't 100% safe. It really depends on who the person is.

Hate to tell ya hero, the only people who are 100% safe are the ones already in the ground.

 

[OKTexas]

Shall we start with the link you posted that assumes each mile driven is a use. How often are your vehicle trips a mile or less?

Sure. It is comparing each mile to each round fired. Sounds like a fair comparison. What is your issue with it?

Once again, how many times are your trips limited to 1 mile? Hell I can't even get off my road without driving a mile. Also how many times have you handled a gun and not fired a shot. Those are not a way to make an accurate comparison. Shouldn't we all be concerned with valid comparisons?

How often are your trips to the gun range limited to 1 shot?

Your complaint isn't valid, it is comparing each mile to each round. Neither is a complete use.

If you are only firing 10-20 rounds a week, but driving so much you can't even get off your road with a mile, you are driving way more than shooting. Which is my point, cars are used way more than guns, of course there are more accidents.

I live in a rural area, the miles I drive here are much safer than driving in a large city, we don't have that much traffic. I've sat outside for hours at a time on nice days and not seen a vehicle pass. I also shoot on my property as do most of the folks out here.

It still sounds like you drive way more than you shoot. You make driving sound very safe.

If you pay attention to what you're doing, it pretty much is.

 

[Brain357]

Sure. It is comparing each mile to each round fired. Sounds like a fair comparison. What is your issue with it?

Once again, how many times are your trips limited to 1 mile? Hell I can't even get off my road without driving a mile. Also how many times have you handled a gun and not fired a shot. Those are not a way to make an accurate comparison. Shouldn't we all be concerned with valid comparisons?

How often are your trips to the gun range limited to 1 shot?

Your complaint isn't valid, it is comparing each mile to each round. Neither is a complete use.

If you are only firing 10-20 rounds a week, but driving so much you can't even get off your road with a mile, you are driving way more than shooting. Which is my point, cars are used way more than guns, of course there are more accidents.

I live in a rural area, the miles I drive here are much safer than driving in a large city, we don't have that much traffic. I've sat outside for hours at a time on nice days and not seen a vehicle pass. I also shoot on my property as do most of the folks out here.

It still sounds like you drive way more than you shoot. You make driving sound very safe.

If you pay attention to what you're doing, it pretty much is.

Which is the case for both.

 

[Rustic]

Buy more guns and ammo...

 

[OKTexas]

Once again, how many times are your trips limited to 1 mile? Hell I can't even get off my road without driving a mile. Also how many times have you handled a gun and not fired a shot. Those are not a way to make an accurate comparison. Shouldn't we all be concerned with valid comparisons?

How often are your trips to the gun range limited to 1 shot?

Your complaint isn't valid, it is comparing each mile to each round. Neither is a complete use.

If you are only firing 10-20 rounds a week, but driving so much you can't even get off your road with a mile, you are driving way more than shooting. Which is my point, cars are used way more than guns, of course there are more accidents.

I live in a rural area, the miles I drive here are much safer than driving in a large city, we don't have that much traffic. I've sat outside for hours at a time on nice days and not seen a vehicle pass. I also shoot on my property as do most of the folks out here.

It still sounds like you drive way more than you shoot. You make driving sound very safe.

If you pay attention to what you're doing, it pretty much is.

Which is the case for both.

Right, but how often do you see someone shooting while putting on make up, reading a book or texting?