Gun control vs. Terrorism (Dem hypocrisy)

[Brain357]

Hey...if you want to show a state i.d. to buy a gun....no big deal.....but you need a background check to buy a gun, and you can't buy a gun if you are a felon...that includes private sales......a felon can get insurance, a license and rent a killing truck...

Your right. to get a gun, all he has to do is go to a private seller or go to gun show, no problem.

Nope.....if he uses the gun for a crime, he can be arrested. If he is a felon, he can't legally buy that gun, and if he is caught we can already arrest him. We have the laws in place to deal with these criminals.....the problem is that democrats like you keep letting violent people back on the street..over and over and over again...

Back up your claim. We have the fullest jails in the world

California Democrats hate the gun, not the gunman – Orange County Register

Now that Democrats have supermajorities in the California state Legislature, they’ve rolled into Sacramento with a zest for lowering the state’s prison population and have interpreted St. Augustine’s words of wisdom to mean, “Hate the gun, not the gunman.”

I say this because, once they finally took a break from preaching about the benefits of stricter gun control, the state Senate voted to loosen sentencing guidelines for criminals convicted of gun crimes.

Currently, California law requires anyone who uses a gun while committing a felony to have their sentence increased by 10 years or more in prison — on top of the normal criminal penalty. If enacted, Senate Bill 620 would eliminate that mandate.

The bill, which passed on a 22-14 party-line vote, with support only from Democrats, now heads to the state Assembly for consideration.

Republicans and the National Rifle Association have vowed to campaign against it.

Why have Democrats suddenly developed a soft spot for criminals convicted of gun crimes? The bill’s author, state Sen. Steve Bradford, D-Gardena, says that he was motivated to write the bill after a 17-year-old riding in a car involved in a drive-by shooting was sentenced to 25 years in prison, even though he claims that he wasn’t the one who pulled the trigger.

and for all those anti-gunners who want to know where criminals get guns....well...this law lowers the prison time for those who give guns to criminals.....

Why is that?

Prop. 57, for example, very deceptively and fundamentally changed the definition of what constitutes a “non-violent” offense.


supplying a firearm to a gang member,

l
felon obtaining a firearm,

discharging a firearm on school grounds

Your proof is something that hasn't passed?
We have the fullest jails in the world.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

/----/ HD will get sued because blood sucking lawyers always go after the deep pockets even though HD was a passive victim. HD will most likely settle to avoid the expense of jury trials and the possibility the plaintiffs will win.

Yes, they will. and they will also probably institute new procedures to keep this sort of thing from happening again, which is THE WHOLE PURPOSE of civil litigation.

The gun industry, however, has a special carve out after the DC Sniper case, where the victims won money after the gun industry sold guns to a convicted felon and a minor. Then they went on to market deadlier guns and nastier guns and things like Bump Stocks.

If Home Depot acted like the Gun Industry, they'd be renting trucks that look like this, and then mocking your manliness for not owning one.

Yeah....genius...tell us exactly how Home Depot is going to stop the next one.....moron........considering the guy didn't have a criminal record, he had a drivers license and he had cash.....

Do you dumb fucks want home depot to start racially profiling people who rent their trucks....?

Also reading up on this guy, he was a truck driver that had his own business for a while, so I'm assuming he had a CDL. When you get a CDL, the feds also check you up and down.

 

[2aguy]

Of course I do, why would you say that? You are bringing up a completely different issue. Such a lazy way of debating

Then why poo poo the fact that 5 times a many people are killed annually with knives than with rifles?

Clearly knives are the bigger threat to society than rifles

again, that isn't the argument... It is about the destructive power that we legally allow people to hold... Somebody storming a night club or concert with a knife may still kill a couple people but it wouldn't be anywhere near the damage they would do with a gun, or with an auto, or with a bomb... I think you understand

The firepower is too much when you can storm a night club with an off duty officer working security and still kill over 50.

They killed 89 people with a rental truck...and injured over 450.....

The only reason so many were killed in that nightclub is because people like you made it a gun free zone for good guys.....had they been able to carry guns in their, since it is in Florida and they have concealed carry, the guy wouldn't have killed so many unarmed people......that's on you guys.

There was an armed off duty officer working security. He killed that many in the presence of police. Way too much firepower obviously.

You lying troll.....the guy ran away at the first shots being fired...leaving 300 unarmed people defenseless in the face of the killer, in a state that would have allowed them to carry guns to stop the guy.......

The only reason he murdered so many is that the many were unarmed and helpless....

 

[Brain357]

I like to call out hypocrisy on both sides of the aisle when I see it, usually on the Right but today I see it on the Left. I just watched the press conference for the recent tragedy in Manhattan. My heart goes out to the victims. During this press conference I heard De Blasio and Como speak about the resolve of New Yorkers and Americans. They emphasized the point that terrorists are trying to break our spirit and if we change our lives in any way then we are letting them win. A respectable point.

It made me think about how the "Left" typically reacts to gun violence, something we heard a lot of after Vegas, and I noticed that the messaging is quite different. After a shooting event the Left seems quick and adamant to try and change our laws to make communities safer. I've heard it communicated as a negligence of duty to not talk about gun control after a shooting. In the same spirit, why isn't there a reaction to legislate a way to keep us safer from terrorism after a terror attack by the Left? Its a rhetorical question, i know why, hence the hypocrisy. But if anybody would like to try to rationalize it then please go ahead!

Note that i'm pretty liberal and support both of these reactions. I'm fine with common sense gun control measures and I am pro immigration and religious freedom. But I have to call it like I see it when hypocrisy hits.

We are very similar...I support common sense gun control, I am pro legal immigration and I support religious freedom.

What gun control do you think works? For me.....my common sense gun control is essentially these two items...

1) if you commit a crime with a gun, you go to jail for 30 years.

2) if you are a convicted, violent felon, caught in possession of a gun, you go away for 30 years.

That pretty much covers everything we need to stop criminals and illegal guns......

I think there are a few more factors involved. I don't think citizens should be able to walk into walmart and buy a fully automatic uzi, so I think limitations on available firepower make sense. I think every honest citizen should be able to get a pistol or riffle to defend themselves, but all this high power stuff, I'm fine with regulating. I'm fine with harsh punishments for gun violence offenders but it is very situational and I don't think a teenager who got caught up with the wrong crowd should go to jail till they are 50 for making a stupid mistake... Again, it all depends on the case.

In other words, you like the way the gun laws are now. There is no place in the US where you can LEGALLY walk in and buy a full auto UZI. If you want to own one legally, prepare for a long process.

Yes, I think it makes sense to regulate the firepower that citizens own. Everybody deserves basic protection but it shouldn’t be quick and easy for somebody to get a weapon capable of killing dozens of people in the matter of just a few seconds. Those “tools” as they’ve been called pose a great danger to society and deserve to be regulated.

The other side of the conversation that seems to get lost is the motivation, indicators, mental process, and conditions etc that drive people to kill in the way that they do because ultimately there is a person behind every trigger pull.

The government doesn't get to regulate bearable arms of citizens.....they are protected by our Right to Self defense......that is the starting point...


Kill a dozen people in matter of a few seconds....like a couple of revolves? A lever action rifle, or a pump action shotgun....you see how what you say will eventually lead to those things being banned as well? A rental truck murdered more people in one go than all of the mass shooters this country has ever had.......killing more people in one drive through a crowd than entire years of mass shooting events........

Do we ban trucks?

Even Scalia said the 2nd has limits.

 

[2aguy]

Firearm ownership is none of your business, and certainly none of the federal government business.

Again, until the majority who don't own guns or even sensible gun owners who don't want crazy people to have them decided "enough is enough".

We have said enough, that is why we decided that good people carrying guns would reduce the crime rate...and we were right...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Thank the bill Clinton crime bill and gun control.

What's happening now?

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Too bad for you we have the internet and actual facts.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...

-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.




Hard Data, Hollow Protests

The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect.

Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened.

Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it.

Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.

Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.

 

[2aguy]

We are very similar...I support common sense gun control, I am pro legal immigration and I support religious freedom.

What gun control do you think works? For me.....my common sense gun control is essentially these two items...

1) if you commit a crime with a gun, you go to jail for 30 years.

2) if you are a convicted, violent felon, caught in possession of a gun, you go away for 30 years.

That pretty much covers everything we need to stop criminals and illegal guns......

I think there are a few more factors involved. I don't think citizens should be able to walk into walmart and buy a fully automatic uzi, so I think limitations on available firepower make sense. I think every honest citizen should be able to get a pistol or riffle to defend themselves, but all this high power stuff, I'm fine with regulating. I'm fine with harsh punishments for gun violence offenders but it is very situational and I don't think a teenager who got caught up with the wrong crowd should go to jail till they are 50 for making a stupid mistake... Again, it all depends on the case.

In other words, you like the way the gun laws are now. There is no place in the US where you can LEGALLY walk in and buy a full auto UZI. If you want to own one legally, prepare for a long process.

Yes, I think it makes sense to regulate the firepower that citizens own. Everybody deserves basic protection but it shouldn’t be quick and easy for somebody to get a weapon capable of killing dozens of people in the matter of just a few seconds. Those “tools” as they’ve been called pose a great danger to society and deserve to be regulated.

The other side of the conversation that seems to get lost is the motivation, indicators, mental process, and conditions etc that drive people to kill in the way that they do because ultimately there is a person behind every trigger pull.

The government doesn't get to regulate bearable arms of citizens.....they are protected by our Right to Self defense......that is the starting point...


Kill a dozen people in matter of a few seconds....like a couple of revolves? A lever action rifle, or a pump action shotgun....you see how what you say will eventually lead to those things being banned as well? A rental truck murdered more people in one go than all of the mass shooters this country has ever had.......killing more people in one drive through a crowd than entire years of mass shooting events........

Do we ban trucks?

Even Scalia said the 2nd has limits.

Yeah...felons and crazies determined to be dangerous by a court.

 

[Brain357]

Then why poo poo the fact that 5 times a many people are killed annually with knives than with rifles?

Clearly knives are the bigger threat to society than rifles

again, that isn't the argument... It is about the destructive power that we legally allow people to hold... Somebody storming a night club or concert with a knife may still kill a couple people but it wouldn't be anywhere near the damage they would do with a gun, or with an auto, or with a bomb... I think you understand

The firepower is too much when you can storm a night club with an off duty officer working security and still kill over 50.

They killed 89 people with a rental truck...and injured over 450.....

The only reason so many were killed in that nightclub is because people like you made it a gun free zone for good guys.....had they been able to carry guns in their, since it is in Florida and they have concealed carry, the guy wouldn't have killed so many unarmed people......that's on you guys.

There was an armed off duty officer working security. He killed that many in the presence of police. Way too much firepower obviously.

You lying troll.....the guy ran away at the first shots being fired...leaving 300 unarmed people defenseless in the face of the killer, in a state that would have allowed them to carry guns to stop the guy.......

The only reason he murdered so many is that the many were unarmed and helpless....

He fell back why? Massively outgunned. Again too much firepower.

Even the NRA said a bunch of armed drunks is a bad idea...

 

[Brain357]

Firearm ownership is none of your business, and certainly none of the federal government business.

Again, until the majority who don't own guns or even sensible gun owners who don't want crazy people to have them decided "enough is enough".

We have said enough, that is why we decided that good people carrying guns would reduce the crime rate...and we were right...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Thank the bill Clinton crime bill and gun control.

What's happening now?

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Too bad for you we have the internet and actual facts.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...

-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.




Hard Data, Hollow Protests

The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect.

Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened.

Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it.

Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.

Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Hey...if you want to show a state i.d. to buy a gun....no big deal.....but you need a background check to buy a gun, and you can't buy a gun if you are a felon...that includes private sales......a felon can get insurance, a license and rent a killing truck...

Your right. to get a gun, all he has to do is go to a private seller or go to gun show, no problem.

Nope.....if he uses the gun for a crime, he can be arrested. If he is a felon, he can't legally buy that gun, and if he is caught we can already arrest him. We have the laws in place to deal with these criminals.....the problem is that democrats like you keep letting violent people back on the street..over and over and over again...

Back up your claim. We have the fullest jails in the world

California Democrats hate the gun, not the gunman – Orange County Register

Now that Democrats have supermajorities in the California state Legislature, they’ve rolled into Sacramento with a zest for lowering the state’s prison population and have interpreted St. Augustine’s words of wisdom to mean, “Hate the gun, not the gunman.”

I say this because, once they finally took a break from preaching about the benefits of stricter gun control, the state Senate voted to loosen sentencing guidelines for criminals convicted of gun crimes.

Currently, California law requires anyone who uses a gun while committing a felony to have their sentence increased by 10 years or more in prison — on top of the normal criminal penalty. If enacted, Senate Bill 620 would eliminate that mandate.

The bill, which passed on a 22-14 party-line vote, with support only from Democrats, now heads to the state Assembly for consideration.

Republicans and the National Rifle Association have vowed to campaign against it.

Why have Democrats suddenly developed a soft spot for criminals convicted of gun crimes? The bill’s author, state Sen. Steve Bradford, D-Gardena, says that he was motivated to write the bill after a 17-year-old riding in a car involved in a drive-by shooting was sentenced to 25 years in prison, even though he claims that he wasn’t the one who pulled the trigger.

and for all those anti-gunners who want to know where criminals get guns....well...this law lowers the prison time for those who give guns to criminals.....

Why is that?

Prop. 57, for example, very deceptively and fundamentally changed the definition of what constitutes a “non-violent” offense.


supplying a firearm to a gang member,

l
felon obtaining a firearm,

discharging a firearm on school grounds

Your proof is something that hasn't passed?
We have the fullest jails in the world.

The reason we have the most people in prison is because of drugs.

 

[2aguy]

/----/ And once those new procedures are in place at the truck rental, you'll enjoy watching Muslims sue for discrimination and being profiled.

I always enjoy watching a big corporation get screwed over. Especially Home Depot, those people are bastards. (I worked as a subcontractor at one for two years)

But that's not the point. The point is, the Gun industry is intentionally irresponsible. If you guys weren't terrified a scary Muslim or black man was going to pop out and get you, you wouldn't want enough guns to fight off the Zombie Armageddon.

Their whole business model is built on fear, and having to not sell to the scary people hurts their business plan.

Now, we could have gun ownership like Germany, where they have 17 million gun owners, but they are background checked, thoroughly. But they have gun laws with teeth. And they have very few mass shooting incidents.

Yeah...those people on that bike path weren't afraid of a muslim popping out and getting them yesterday.......and the gay guys in Orlando weren't afraid that a muslim was going to pop out and get them too.......and on and on....

We already have background checks......and every single mass shooter would have passed them....and the ones who couldn't pass...stole their guns....

The Germans have guns, and their criminals have guns....they just don't have as many people, yet, who want to do mass public shootings....except for last year .....

 

[Brain357]

Your right. to get a gun, all he has to do is go to a private seller or go to gun show, no problem.

Nope.....if he uses the gun for a crime, he can be arrested. If he is a felon, he can't legally buy that gun, and if he is caught we can already arrest him. We have the laws in place to deal with these criminals.....the problem is that democrats like you keep letting violent people back on the street..over and over and over again...

Back up your claim. We have the fullest jails in the world

California Democrats hate the gun, not the gunman – Orange County Register

Now that Democrats have supermajorities in the California state Legislature, they’ve rolled into Sacramento with a zest for lowering the state’s prison population and have interpreted St. Augustine’s words of wisdom to mean, “Hate the gun, not the gunman.”

I say this because, once they finally took a break from preaching about the benefits of stricter gun control, the state Senate voted to loosen sentencing guidelines for criminals convicted of gun crimes.

Currently, California law requires anyone who uses a gun while committing a felony to have their sentence increased by 10 years or more in prison — on top of the normal criminal penalty. If enacted, Senate Bill 620 would eliminate that mandate.

The bill, which passed on a 22-14 party-line vote, with support only from Democrats, now heads to the state Assembly for consideration.

Republicans and the National Rifle Association have vowed to campaign against it.

Why have Democrats suddenly developed a soft spot for criminals convicted of gun crimes? The bill’s author, state Sen. Steve Bradford, D-Gardena, says that he was motivated to write the bill after a 17-year-old riding in a car involved in a drive-by shooting was sentenced to 25 years in prison, even though he claims that he wasn’t the one who pulled the trigger.

and for all those anti-gunners who want to know where criminals get guns....well...this law lowers the prison time for those who give guns to criminals.....

Why is that?

Prop. 57, for example, very deceptively and fundamentally changed the definition of what constitutes a “non-violent” offense.


supplying a firearm to a gang member,

l
felon obtaining a firearm,

discharging a firearm on school grounds

Your proof is something that hasn't passed?
We have the fullest jails in the world.

The reason we have the most people in prison is because of drugs.

Oh? How many are in prison for violent crimes?

 

[2aguy]

You can pass all the laws you want and yet criminals will never care.

It is against the law to murder, so knowing there is a law against it that alone should stop most but it does not.

The tool matters not because you can ban all guns then they will use Trucks, or bats or bombs and yes it is easy to make homemade bombs.

So let look at reality and what we are doing is not working but more laws is not the answer either...

YOu are right, criminals will break laws and there is no solution that will eliminate crime and murder. That isnt really the point. But if we can limit access to weapons capable of mass distraction then that could saves lives in some cases, wouldn’t you agree? A guy using a pistol is less dangerous than a guy with a Uzi. So making it difficult to get uzis is a good thing right? Makes us a little safer, and isn’t a tremendous violation of our rights.

The people should have access to the same small arms as the military and police......

The terrorists in France...all on government terrorist watch lists, got their hands on fully automatic military rifles, hand grenades and pistols...all of which are completely illegal in Europe, there are no gun shows or stores that sell them......and they murdered 142 people with them.....

A guy with pistols in this country murdered 32 people.....Remember Virginia Tech?

So following your logic, we will eventually only be allowed to have a single shot pistol......and we will have to check out our bullets from the government....

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

again, that isn't the argument... It is about the destructive power that we legally allow people to hold... Somebody storming a night club or concert with a knife may still kill a couple people but it wouldn't be anywhere near the damage they would do with a gun, or with an auto, or with a bomb... I think you understand

The firepower is too much when you can storm a night club with an off duty officer working security and still kill over 50.

They killed 89 people with a rental truck...and injured over 450.....

The only reason so many were killed in that nightclub is because people like you made it a gun free zone for good guys.....had they been able to carry guns in their, since it is in Florida and they have concealed carry, the guy wouldn't have killed so many unarmed people......that's on you guys.

There was an armed off duty officer working security. He killed that many in the presence of police. Way too much firepower obviously.

You lying troll.....the guy ran away at the first shots being fired...leaving 300 unarmed people defenseless in the face of the killer, in a state that would have allowed them to carry guns to stop the guy.......

The only reason he murdered so many is that the many were unarmed and helpless....

He fell back why? Massively outgunned. Again too much firepower.

Even the NRA said a bunch of armed drunks is a bad idea...

You can have a firearm at a bar in my state but you're not allowed to be drinking with it.

People like to go out to eat just like some go out to drink.

I used to be in a dart team at our bar. Because of my license, I never drank when I went to visiting bars, and some of them were in pretty bad neighborhoods. The guys that did drink many times brought their girlfriends or wives with them, and they wouldn't drink so they could drive home.

 

[2aguy]

Firearm ownership is none of your business, and certainly none of the federal government business.

Again, until the majority who don't own guns or even sensible gun owners who don't want crazy people to have them decided "enough is enough".

We have said enough, that is why we decided that good people carrying guns would reduce the crime rate...and we were right...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Thank the bill Clinton crime bill and gun control.

What's happening now?

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Too bad for you we have the internet and actual facts.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...

-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.




Hard Data, Hollow Protests

The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect.

Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened.

Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it.

Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.

Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Yes....you guys keep attacking the police and we get them not proactively policing the criminals...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.




Hard Data, Hollow Protests

The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect.

Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened.

Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it.

Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.

Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.

 

[Brain357]

Again, until the majority who don't own guns or even sensible gun owners who don't want crazy people to have them decided "enough is enough".

We have said enough, that is why we decided that good people carrying guns would reduce the crime rate...and we were right...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Thank the bill Clinton crime bill and gun control.

What's happening now?

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Too bad for you we have the internet and actual facts.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...

-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.




Hard Data, Hollow Protests

The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect.

Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened.

Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it.

Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.

Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Yes....you guys keep attacking the police and we get them not proactively policing the criminals...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.




Hard Data, Hollow Protests

The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect.

Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened.

Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it.

Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.

Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

 

[2aguy]

You can pass all the laws you want and yet criminals will never care.

It is against the law to murder, so knowing there is a law against it that alone should stop most but it does not.

The tool matters not because you can ban all guns then they will use Trucks, or bats or bombs and yes it is easy to make homemade bombs.

So let look at reality and what we are doing is not working but more laws is not the answer either...

YOu are right, criminals will break laws and there is no solution that will eliminate crime and murder. That isnt really the point. But if we can limit access to weapons capable of mass distraction then that could saves lives in some cases, wouldn’t you agree? A guy using a pistol is less dangerous than a guy with a Uzi. So making it difficult to get uzis is a good thing right? Makes us a little safer, and isn’t a tremendous violation of our rights.

A fully automatic Uzi is already a restricted firearm.

Do you support that restriction?

I really have no issue with the automatic weapon restrictions in place.

But I do have an issue with the move to ban semiautomatic weapons

I think it is a fine debate to have. The merits behind the auto restrictions are the same merits for those that argue for further restrictions. Of course there are always going to be those who push for more and there are going to be those who want none and then there is the middle majority whose limitations vary, thus the debate.

The Virginia Tech shooter murdered 32 people with pistols...so now, according to you, we can't have pistols either....right?

 

[2aguy]

We have said enough, that is why we decided that good people carrying guns would reduce the crime rate...and we were right...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Thank the bill Clinton crime bill and gun control.

What's happening now?

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Too bad for you we have the internet and actual facts.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...

-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.




Hard Data, Hollow Protests

The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect.

Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened.

Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it.

Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.

Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Yes....you guys keep attacking the police and we get them not proactively policing the criminals...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.




Hard Data, Hollow Protests

The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect.

Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened.

Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it.

Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.

Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Thanks to the Ferguson effect caused by people like you....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.




Hard Data, Hollow Protests

The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect.

Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened.

Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it.

Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.

Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Nope.....if he uses the gun for a crime, he can be arrested. If he is a felon, he can't legally buy that gun, and if he is caught we can already arrest him. We have the laws in place to deal with these criminals.....the problem is that democrats like you keep letting violent people back on the street..over and over and over again...

Back up your claim. We have the fullest jails in the world

California Democrats hate the gun, not the gunman – Orange County Register

Now that Democrats have supermajorities in the California state Legislature, they’ve rolled into Sacramento with a zest for lowering the state’s prison population and have interpreted St. Augustine’s words of wisdom to mean, “Hate the gun, not the gunman.”

I say this because, once they finally took a break from preaching about the benefits of stricter gun control, the state Senate voted to loosen sentencing guidelines for criminals convicted of gun crimes.

Currently, California law requires anyone who uses a gun while committing a felony to have their sentence increased by 10 years or more in prison — on top of the normal criminal penalty. If enacted, Senate Bill 620 would eliminate that mandate.

The bill, which passed on a 22-14 party-line vote, with support only from Democrats, now heads to the state Assembly for consideration.

Republicans and the National Rifle Association have vowed to campaign against it.

Why have Democrats suddenly developed a soft spot for criminals convicted of gun crimes? The bill’s author, state Sen. Steve Bradford, D-Gardena, says that he was motivated to write the bill after a 17-year-old riding in a car involved in a drive-by shooting was sentenced to 25 years in prison, even though he claims that he wasn’t the one who pulled the trigger.

and for all those anti-gunners who want to know where criminals get guns....well...this law lowers the prison time for those who give guns to criminals.....

Why is that?

Prop. 57, for example, very deceptively and fundamentally changed the definition of what constitutes a “non-violent” offense.


supplying a firearm to a gang member,

l
felon obtaining a firearm,

discharging a firearm on school grounds

Your proof is something that hasn't passed?
We have the fullest jails in the world.

The reason we have the most people in prison is because of drugs.

Oh? How many are in prison for violent crimes?

BOP Statistics: Inmate Offenses

 

[2aguy]

Do you realize that less than 1% of all murders occur in mass shooting events or that less than 2% of all murders are committed with rifles of any kind?

More than 5 times as many people are killed with knives annually than rifles so if rifles are a "threat to society" then knives must be a 5 times larger threat no?

No, you don’t seem to understand the point. Are you trying to understand or are you just reacting?

So it seems you don't give a shit about any murders unless they happen during a mass shooting.

I'm sure the families of the other 99% of murder victims appreciate that

Of course I do, why would you say that? You are bringing up a completely different issue. Such a lazy way of debating

Then why poo poo the fact that 5 times a many people are killed annually with knives than with rifles?

Clearly knives are the bigger threat to society than rifles

again, that isn't the argument... It is about the destructive power that we legally allow people to hold... Somebody storming a night club or concert with a knife may still kill a couple people but it wouldn't be anywhere near the damage they would do with a gun, or with an auto, or with a bomb... I think you understand

Virginia Tech...32 people murdered with pistols.....do we ban pistols too?

 

[2aguy]

So it seems you don't give a shit about any murders unless they happen during a mass shooting.

I'm sure the families of the other 99% of murder victims appreciate that

Of course I do, why would you say that? You are bringing up a completely different issue. Such a lazy way of debating

Then why poo poo the fact that 5 times a many people are killed annually with knives than with rifles?

Clearly knives are the bigger threat to society than rifles

again, that isn't the argument... It is about the destructive power that we legally allow people to hold... Somebody storming a night club or concert with a knife may still kill a couple people but it wouldn't be anywhere near the damage they would do with a gun, or with an auto, or with a bomb... I think you understand

I am looking at annual totals.

Personally I don't think a murder that occurs in a mass shooting is any different from a murder that occurs any other time with any other weapon.

So a mass murderer isn't worse than just a single murder? Right...

criminals murder more people than all of the mass shooters combined since 1982........so no, mass shooters are not the same problem....knives murder over 1,500 people every single year.....yet banning knives doesn't seem to be on your agenda, even though they are used to murder more people every year than all of the mass shootings since 1982...