Gun control works….two 13 year old boys shot in Britain. You know, where guns were banned and confiscated.

[2aguy]

EXACTLY
We already have a workable solution. The fed firearms laws already restrict full auto firearms.
As a result, there are very few instances of full auto firms used in the commission of ANY CRIME. Of course the movies shows them used all the time which is totally bogus. They aren ‘t used even though there are tens of thousands in the public domain. Simple regulation works for them and it would work for all firearms. THESE GUNAHOLICS are employed by all firearm makers to spread their BS.

Hey....dumb shit....

A team at American University analyzed the impact of one such measure in Massachusetts and found stricter background checks and licensing policies made little to no difference in curbing violent crimes.
-------

How is Massachusetts cracking down on gun ownership?​

Massachusetts passed new background check requirements for firearms sold at gun shows or through private sales. Lawmakers also created changes to firearm regulations by adopting new gun licensing procedures in 2014. The new law went into effect in January 2015.

No ‘consistent effect’ on crime rates​

Using this approach, the research team was able to estimate, based on percentage of firearms licenses, that one to five percent of adult Massachusetts residents had a gunlicense.


However, results also show the new gun control measures did not have a “consistent effect” on reducing four types of violent crimes — murder or manslaughter, aggravated assault, robbery, and rape.

Notably, a one-percent increase in denied firearm licenses and denied firearm licenses following statutory disqualifications increased robberies by 7.3 and 8.9 percent, respectively.
Massachusetts gun-control legislation had no impact on violent crime rates

Massachusetts gun-control legislation had no impact on violent crime rates

The new gun control measures did not have a "consistent effect" on reducing rates of murder or manslaughter, assault, robbery, and rape.

www.studyfinds.org

 

[Dagosa]

Yes, Mexican drug cartels get all the guns they want, from the USA, where they are so easy to get.

EXACTLY. They are often used as “currency” for drugs.

 

[2aguy]

Yup..you can have guns for which only ligit uses are intended.,
You want to carry a gun, enlist in the arm forces, police force etc.


Consider Sweden which allows many gun owners…but.
Swedish gun laws – yes there are many guns in Sweden

1. There are actually a lot of guns in Sweden, mostly because there is a lot of hunting. ...
2. You cannot carry your gun around - only while you are hunting. ...
3. You keep your guns locked up. This is key. ...
4. If you shoot an intruder, you will go to jail. There are laws out there that limit the amount of force you can use. ...

Are you really this much of an infant?

Criminals don't care about 1-4, and You mean Switzerland, not Sweden...cause Sweden is having a little problem with criminals shooting up their cities with fully automatic military rifles and grenades...


Tell the rest of the class, genius........are fully automatic military rifles and grenades against the law in Sweden?

Crime gangs in Sweden: What's behind the rise in the use of explosives?

The frequent use of explosives is a relatively recent phenomenon, and criminologists told The Local that the blasts can be seen as part of an overall rise in violence and growing recklessness in these criminal networks.

Amir Rostami, a police superintendent turned sociologist with a focus on criminal gangs, told The Local that so-called 'street gangs' are showing an increased tendency towards violence, and that this violence was becoming more severe when it took place.

"If previously they maybe fired one shot or shot someone in the legs, today it's more about AK47s, using more bullets, hand grenades and explosions that we didn't see before. ​

​

​

I'd say that's the biggest shift we see – they're more reckless, they don't seem to care about the consequences," Rostami said.

Fatal shootings linked to criminal gangs have increased from around four per year in the early 1990s to over 40 in 2018. And while the blasts that have taken place in Sweden have caused no fatalities so far this year, they could be seen as a sign that the gangs are unafraid of causing damage and potentially harming people.
No, Sweden, hand grenade attacks aren’t an ‘image’ problem

In 2018 there were 162 bombings reported to police, and 93 reported in the first five months of this year, 30 more than during the same period in 2018. The level of attacks is “extreme in a country that is not at war,” Crime Commissioner Gunnar Appelgren told SVT last year.
-------
The use of hand grenades is a purely Swedish phenomenon too, with no other country in Europe reporting their use on such a level, a police manager told Swedish Radio in 2016, a year after attacks first spiked.

The grenades used almost exclusively originate in the former Yugoslavia, and are sold in Sweden for around $100 per piece. But while only three hand grenades were thrown in Kosovo between 2013 and 2014, more than 20 have been used in Sweden every year since 2015.

More broadly, homicide has risen in Sweden, with more than 300 shootings reported last year, causing 45 deaths. Though homicide rates had been in decline since 2002, they again began trending upwards in 2015, as did rapes and sexual assaults, which more than tripled in the last four years.

Of course, 2015 was also the year in which Sweden flung open its doors to more than 160,000 asylum seekers, more per capita than any other European country.
-------

Dagens Nyheter pointed out that 90 percent of shooting perpetrators in Sweden are either first or second generation immigrants.​

Bomb attacks are now a normal part of Swedish life | The Spectator​

Gun crime is also rampant, which BRA attributes to increased gangs, drug trafficking, and low confidence in the police.
---
In 2020, Sweden recorded more than 360 gun-involved incident, with 47 deaths and 117 people wounded.
After a long period of decline, gun violence steadily increased from the mid-2000s and continues to do so.
Shooting deaths more than doubled between 2011 and 2019 and now account for 40 per cent of violent deaths.
'The increase in gun homicide in Sweden is closely linked to criminal milieux in socially disadvantaged areas,' the report said.
Eighty per cent of shootings were linked to gangs, a significantly higher proportion than in other European countries.

As 'bomb blast' injures 20, how Sweden is being plagued by explosions​

=======​

Sweden has gone from having one of the lowest rates of gun violence in Europe to having one of the highest, a report said on Wednesday, describing what one researcher called a "social contagion" of killings.​

-----
The report said eight out of 10 shootings took place in a "criminal environment", with gang conflicts mentioned as one of the potential reasons for the trend. The drugs trade and low confidence towards the police in some parts of society were also cited as potential factors.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/social-contagion-sweden-sees-surge-deadly-shootings-2021-05-26/​

 

[2aguy]

EXACTLY. They are often used as “currency” for drugs.

Wrong, dipshit...you don't have any clue....

The U.S. government supplies the Mexican military with rifles.........the Mexican military thugs, then sell those guns to the cartels.......the cartels also get their military grade weapons from China, and Europe, as well as other South American countries who also get military weapons from the U.S. government...

You dope....

 

[2aguy]

EXACTLY. They are often used as “currency” for drugs.

The Drug cartels are billion dollar enterprises, they get whatever guns they want....

 

[M14 Shooter]

Just a general observation, wouldn't there be less gun crime in the USA if there were less guns in circulation and therefore easily obtained by these "criminals"?

In the US, from 1992-2017, the number of guns increased by ~25% while gun-related crime fell 50%
If your fewer guns = less gun-related crime hypothesis were sound, that would not be the case,.

 

[M14 Shooter]

If you want to own a gun, you need proper training.

Indeed. But that training cannot be a legal requirement for the ownership of the gun, else it infringes on our right.

People take driving lessons and have to pass a competence test before they get a licence to drive, so why not the same for guns?

Surely, you already know the answer to this.

 

[Dagosa]

Indeed. But that training cannot be a legal requirement for the ownership of the gun, else it infringes on our right.

Surely, you already know the answer to this.

Are you serious ? Where do you live. Every square foot of land in the US firearms are regulated in some way and It infringes upon no ones right. That’s bogus. The Supreme Court has long held that none of our rights are absolute. None, nada, nix. If the state or federal government want to institute a permit system for carry of firearms and it requires some form of training which our state has for decades, they do it. Wtf has constitutionality have to do with it. Geesus, we have access right to all our federal and state lands in the nation, and you have to pay a toll or access them and in some cases, show you are qualified to access them. It’s been legal since the constitution was signed.

 

[Vagabond63]

A private person can use a firearm only for hunting or for sport shooting. In very specific cases (people under threat or security officials) the government can authorise the use of a handgun for self-defence.



Yes......make it so difficult that normal people can't afford the time or money to own or carry a gun......so women walk the streets and get raped, normal people can be robbed, beaten and stabbed....but, the rich and politically connected can hunt with their rifles and fowling pieces....good for spain.

You posted that as if it makes any sense.....

The rape (again! what is with your fetish about rape?) rate in Spain is roughly 1/10th that of the USA. In 2016 38 people were shot and killed in the whole of Spain (yes, Spain has gun crime!) In the same year the State of Rhode Island had 46 (lowest gun kills), Texas 3,353(highest) Approximately 15,000 Americans are killed with guns every year (not counting suicides and Police). Similar statistics apply to all the other crimes you mention. Controlling the general availability of firearms works in Spain, in the UK, in fact, most of Europe.

Oh, the majority of people who own guns in Spain are neither rich nor politically connected.

 

[Vagabond63]

But that training cannot be a legal requirement for the ownership of the gun, else it infringes on our right.

How?

 

[Blues Man]

How?

It forces people to pay the government to exercise a right.

We can't require people take a class or have to pay for a permit in order to vote either.

That's not how rights work.

 

[M14 Shooter]

How?

It places an arbitrary and capricious precondition on the exercise of the right not inherent to same.

 

[Dagosa]

How?

Even though states have require training for CWP for decades, he’ll make up some shit.

 

[Dagosa]

It forces people to pay the government to exercise a right.

We can't require people take a class or have to pay for a permit in order to vote either.

That's not how rights work.

That’s not very bright in light of it having been done for decades. It’s hilarious. Yes, in states that require voter ID to register to vote, which is nearly all for national elections, the voter at his own expense must provide a suitable ID to register to vote. The gov doesn’t pay for it. Dah. We have to show proof of training For firearm permit in our state for over 40 plus years.


Are you delusional ? Even the Heller decision did not remove the requirement that Heller needed a permit he had to pay for as well as registering his hand gun, just to have it in his own home u locked.


Gunaholics don't make much sense.

Even the fed requires you pay a fee for a license to traffic in firearms that are regulated.

 

[2aguy]

That’s not very bright in light of it having been done for decades. It’s hilarious. Yes, in states that require voter ID to register to vote, which is nearly all for national elections, the voter at his own expense must provide a suitable ID to register to vote. The gov doesn’t pay for it. Dah.

A woman is grabbed by a violent serial rapist at a bus stop, a train platform or in her apartment...he plans on beating, raping and murdering her. She has a gun, and can stop the rape with the gun......

Do you want her to use that gun to stop the rape?

A woman stops an attack with a gun, a brutal rape, torture and murder...in a public space....if you had the ability to go back in time, and prevent her from having that gun...would you?
=======
The British government will not allow a woman to own and carry a gun to prevent being gang raped in a London park.....saying she does not have "good reason," to own the gun.

A member of the House of Lords wants to quail hunt with his rich friends on his private country estate, and the British government gives him the gun....because he has "good reason."

Does this make sense to you?

 

[2aguy]

How?

Any fee or tax on a Right is unConstitutional......

Murdoch v Pennsylvania:

Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 U.S. 105 (1943)

4. A State may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the Federal Constitution. P. 319 U. S. 113.
5. The flat license tax here involved restrains in advance the Constitutional liberties of press and religion, and inevitably tends to suppress their exercise. P. 319 U. S. 114.
6. That the ordinance is "nondiscriminatory," in that it applies also to peddlers of wares and merchandise, is immaterial. The liberties guaranteed by the First Amendment are in a preferred position. P. 319 U. S. 115.
7. Since the privilege in question is guaranteed by the Federal Constitution, and exists independently of state authority, the inquiry as to whether the State has given something for which it can ask a return is irrelevant. P. 319 U. S. 115.
8. A community may not suppress, or the State tax, the dissemination of views because they are unpopular, annoying, or distasteful. P. 319 U. S. 116.
------

Page 319 U. S. 108

The First Amendment, which the Fourteenth makes applicable to the states, declares that
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press . . ."
It could hardly be denied that a tax laid specifically on the exercise of those freedoms would be unconstitutional. Yet the license tax imposed by this ordinance is, in substance, just that.

Also....training requirements are no different from a Literacy Test for the Right to vote..the democrat party in the United States used Literacy tests to deny blacks the Right to vote..........Literacy tests are unconstitutional, so any test for the exercise of a Right is unconstitutional.

 

[Vagabond63]

arbitrary and capricious precondition

Interesting, how is mandatory training in the safe use and keeping of firearms an "arbitrary and capricious precondition" same applies to a permit to own. If that's the case, you equally cannot ban criminals from owning firearms. Where does the 2nd ammendment state, "except for criminals"?

 

[Vagabond63]

It forces people to pay the government to exercise a right.

You don't pay the government to learn how to drive a car, you pay a qualified instructor. Do you pay to take a driving test in the USA?

 

[Dagosa]

Indeed. But that training cannot be a legal requirement for the ownership of the gun, else it infringes on our right.

Surely, you already know the answer to this.

Everyone pays the issuing agency for permit and licensing fees.
Evern a dealer. No one has ever challenged and won the regulation requiring it. You talk like the people who work for the gov to issue these permits and licenses do everything for nothing.
This is another indication how conservatives want everything for free. A bunch of free loaders where everything is handed over to them, while they cut taxes and fees. I suppose you think an Uber driver contracted with gov will take you to the nearest dealer and give you a free firearm of your choice because the constitution demands it.

The only way that shit is free, is if you enlist and are employed by the govt.
“A Type 1 Dealer’s license, the most common type of FFL, has a license cost of $200. The license is valid for three years. After that renewals for each subsequent three year period are $90.”

Thats where you’re confused. The right to bear arms applies to an organized militia, which is financed by local, state and federal govs. Join one if you want to practice your 2 a. Otherwise, we regulate literally, EVERYTHING YOU DO OR HAVE. Even free speech is regulated, and often requires a fee.

 

[Blues Man]

That’s not very bright in light of it having been done for decades. It’s hilarious. Yes, in states that require voter ID to register to vote, which is nearly all for national elections, the voter at his own expense must provide a suitable ID to register to vote. The gov doesn’t pay for it. Dah. We have to show proof of training For firearm permit in our state for over 40 plus years.


Are you delusional ? Even the Heller decision did not remove the requirement that Heller needed a permit he had to pay for as well as registering his hand gun, just to have it in his own home u locked.


Gunaholics don't make much sense.

Even the fed requires you pay a fee for a license to traffic in firearms that are regulated.

Requiring voter ID is not the same thing.


An ID is required for daily living in the modern world and the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of people already have some form of ID and for those that don;t already have one they most likely would be free.

And the selling of forearms isn't a protected right and those sales fall under the commerce clause.