gun facts for anti gunners...read at own risk...to your beliefs...

[Brain357]

Well strangely enough I've never had to defend myself from some criminal with a gun. Nor do I know anyone who has. Given some of your stats I should have to every few years right?

Most criminals are trying to steal, not kill. A very small percentage of that 108,000 would be lives saved.

So...when the guy sticks the gun in your face or you see him in your home...can you read his mind...? Do you know what their actual intent is? Would you bet your families safety on your hope that all the guy is after is your stuff...and not raping your wife and killing you....?

 

[2aguy]

Here is Kleck explaining why the NCVS numbers are wrong...

How Often Are Firearms Used in Self-Defense

Kleck concludes his criticism of the NCVS saying it "was not designed to estimate how often people resist crime using a gun. It was designed primarily to estimate national victimization levels; it incidentally happens to include a few self-protection questions which include response categories covering resistance with a gun. Its survey instrument has been carefully refined and evaluated over the years to do as good a job as possible in getting people to report illegal things which other people have done to them. This is the exact opposite of the task which faces anyone trying to get good DGU estimates--to get people to admit controversial and possibly illegal things which the Rs themselves have done. Therefore, it is neither surprising, nor a reflection on the survey's designers, to note that the NCVS is singularly ill-suited for estimating the prevalence or incidence of DGU. It is not credible to regard this survey as an acceptable basis for establishing, in even the roughest way, how often Americans use guns for self-protection."

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Well strangely enough I've never had to defend myself from some criminal with a gun. Nor do I know anyone who has.

But you know...everyday someone is raped, brutally beaten, robbed or murdered...and I am not going to be the one to deny them the right to defend themselves with a gun...the most effective tool for protecting their lives...from criminals, and the original purpose of defeating tyrannical government...

 

[Brain357]

If it is so effective why are homicide rates lower in countries that have far fewer guns? We have the most guns, our homicide/crime rates should be the lowest.

Here is Kleck explaining why the NCVS numbers are wrong...

How Often Are Firearms Used in Self-Defense

Kleck concludes his criticism of the NCVS saying it "was not designed to estimate how often people resist crime using a gun. It was designed primarily to estimate national victimization levels; it incidentally happens to include a few self-protection questions which include response categories covering resistance with a gun. Its survey instrument has been carefully refined and evaluated over the years to do as good a job as possible in getting people to report illegal things which other people have done to them. This is the exact opposite of the task which faces anyone trying to get good DGU estimates--to get people to admit controversial and possibly illegal things which the Rs themselves have done. Therefore, it is neither surprising, nor a reflection on the survey's designers, to note that the NCVS is singularly ill-suited for estimating the prevalence or incidence of DGU. It is not credible to regard this survey as an acceptable basis for establishing, in even the roughest way, how often Americans use guns for self-protection."

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Well strangely enough I've never had to defend myself from some criminal with a gun. Nor do I know anyone who has.

But you know...everyday someone is raped, brutally beaten, robbed or murdered...and I am not going to be the one to deny them the right to defend themselves with a gun...the most effective tool for protecting their lives...from criminals, and the original purpose of defeating tyrannical government...

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

...and I am not going to be the one to deny them the right to defend themselves with a gun..


No one is trying to deny anyone the right to defend himself with a gun.

 

[Noomi]

Here is a quick reference guide to gun ownership, accidents with guns, police vs. civilian ownership, crime in U.S. Vs. Britain....there is a nice series of graphics that puts these various topics together...

The best chart to shut liberals up about gun control Rare

Americangunfacts.com recently released an info-graphic with some shocking stats about guns in the United States. Shocking, if you are a liberal of course.

The chart compares and contrasts how gun owners and police use guns, noting that the 80,000,000 Americans who own guns have only a 2 percent accident rate. In contrast, the 794,000 police officers who use firearms experience an 11 percent accident rate.

Internationally, the United States has the highest percentage of residents owning firearms, and among the lowest rates of intentional homicide.

The United Kingdom is a perfect example of gun control going awry, with the UK experiencing close to five times more violent crimes than the United States.

Since the Labor Party’s ban on handguns in 1997, the number of recorded violent attacks has skyrocketed 77 percent in the UK.

- See more at: The best chart to shut liberals up about gun control Rare

Yeah but how many innocent schoolchildren need to be shot and killed before your crazed loons DO SOMETHING?

 

[Noomi]

If it is so effective why are homicide rates lower in countries that have far fewer guns? We have the most guns, our homicide/crime rates should be the lowest.

Because if you have a gun, its so much easier to commit a murder. Hence why your murder rate is so much higher.

 

[2aguy]

Because if you have a gun, its so much easier to commit a murder. Hence why your murder rate is so much higher.

No, our murder rate is so much higher because if you look at the 24 most violent cities in America, they are all run by the democrat party...the democrat party undermines law enforcement and spends money on everything but keeping people safe from crime...

For example...Chicago is short 2000 police officers...1000 who need to be hired, and another 1000 due to sick days and vacation every day...but the city will not hire them....they also took special gang units and put them on regular patrol duty...weakening the ability to react to spontaneous gang violence...that is why we have more murders...

But, riddle me this Noomi...more and more Americans are buying, owning and carrying guns for protection...and the violent crime rate is dropping, not increasing...in fact...our rate decreased slightly more than Australia's did and we didn't buy back our guns...how is that possible?

Another factor in our gun murder rate...generations of people in democrat cities, raised on welfare...children raising children generation after generation on welfare, with the only male role models being criminals and drug gang members, in schools that have 50% drop out rates...and a political party that doesn't need to fix these problems because the victims will still vote for them at the rate of 95% every election...

You have generations of young inner city men with low impulse control because they were raised by teenage girls...and their role models were violent street criminals...

by the way...our murders are pretty much confined to small areas in these inner cities in democrat cities...small as to about several block areas...and those have the majority of murders elevating our numbers...the rest of the country...very peaceful...

That is why we have a high murder rate...

 

[2aguy]

Yeah but how many innocent schoolchildren need to be shot and killed before your crazed loons DO SOMETHING?

Gun deaths of children isn't as high as it is portrayed in the media...and shootings in our schools are not on the rise...another media myth...

Keep in mind...before Newton...3 of the five worst school shootings happened in Europe...and then there was Norway...

 

[Noomi]

We haven't had a single mass shooting since 1996. Your last mass shooting was what, a couple of weeks ago?
What does that tell you?

 

[2aguy]

Noomi,

How many of the top ten worst school massacres happened in America...?

Only two...as of the writing of this article...

Top 10 Worst School Massacres of all time - List Dose

 

[2aguy]

We haven't had a single mass shooting since 1996.

Not exactly true...you had two...one was stopped because the Chines foreign national exchange student experienced a malfunction with his rifle...and there was another one...

 

[2aguy]

Hmmm...Noomi, this one happened in 2011, surprised you didn't know about it...but that is okay...I didn't know about it till a few days ago either...

2011 Hectorville siege - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The 2011 Hectorville siege was a siege that took place between the hours of 2:30 a.m. and 10:30 a.m. on Friday, April 29, 2011, at the small suburb of Hectorville, east of Adelaide in the state of South Australia, Australia. It began after a 39-year-old male, later identified as Donato Anthony Corbo, went on a shooting rampage, killing three people and wounding a child and two police officers, before being arrested by Special Operations police after an eight-hour stand off.[2]

 

[2aguy]

And this is the shooting at Monash university in 2002...after the gun buy back...

Monash University shooting - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

he Monash University shooting refers to a shooting in which a student shot his classmates and teacher, killing two and injuring five. It took place at Monash Universityin Melbourne, Victoria, Australia on 21 October 2002. The gunman, Huan Yun Xiang, was acquitted of crimes related to the shootings due to mental impairment, and is currently under psychiatric care. Several of the people present in the room of the shootings have been commended for their bravery in tackling Xiang and ending the shooting.

 

[Noomi]

Hmmm...Noomi, this one happened in 2011, surprised you didn't know about it...but that is okay...I didn't know about it till a few days ago either...

2011 Hectorville siege - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The 2011 Hectorville siege was a siege that took place between the hours of 2:30 a.m. and 10:30 a.m. on Friday, April 29, 2011, at the small suburb of Hectorville, east of Adelaide in the state of South Australia, Australia. It began after a 39-year-old male, later identified as Donato Anthony Corbo, went on a shooting rampage, killing three people and wounding a child and two police officers, before being arrested by Special Operations police after an eight-hour stand off.[2]

Read this:

Though the FBI doesn't specifically define mass shooting, it does define mass murder, calling it a single incident in which a perpetrator kills four or more people, not including himself or herself. The FBI defined mass murder to distinguish it from serial murder.

People were killed, but the killings don't fit the definition of a mass shooting. Mass murder is basically the same thing - four or more people must die.

 

[Noomi]

And this is the shooting at Monash university in 2002...after the gun buy back...

Monash University shooting - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

he Monash University shooting refers to a shooting in which a student shot his classmates and teacher, killing two and injuring five. It took place at Monash Universityin Melbourne, Victoria, Australia on 21 October 2002. The gunman, Huan Yun Xiang, was acquitted of crimes related to the shootings due to mental impairment, and is currently under psychiatric care. Several of the people present in the room of the shootings have been commended for their bravery in tackling Xiang and ending the shooting.

Doesn't fit the definition of a mass shooting.

 

[2aguy]

Doesn't fit the definition of a mass shooting.

Really, you are going to hide behind that...? That they were bad shots?

 

[2aguy]

The worst school shootings around the world...

Timeline of Worldwide School Shootings Infoplease.com

March 1997
Sanaa, YemenEight people (six students and two others) at two schools killed by Mohammad Ahman al-Naziri.

April 28, 1999
Taber, Alberta, CanadaOne student killed, one wounded at W. R. Myers High School in first fatal high school shooting in Canada in 20 years. The suspect, a 14-year-old boy, had dropped out of school after he was severely ostracized by his classmates.

Dec. 7, 1999
Veghel, NetherlandsOne teacher and three students wounded by a 17-year-old student.

March 2000
Branneburg, GermanyOne teacher killed by a 15-year-old student, who then shot himself. The shooter has been in a coma ever since.

Jan. 18, 2001
Jan, SwedenOne student killed by two boys, ages 17 and 19.

R

Feb. 19, 2002
Freising, GermanyTwo killed in Eching by a man at the factory from which he had been fired; he then traveled to Freising and killed the headmaster of the technical school from which he had been expelled. He also wounded another teacher before killing himself.

April 26, 2002
Erfurt, Germany13 teachers, two students, and one policeman killed, ten wounded by Robert Steinhaeuser, 19, at the Johann Gutenberg secondary school. Steinhaeuser then killed himself.

April 29, 2002
Vlasenica, Bosnia-HerzegovinaOne teacher killed, one wounded by Dragoslav Petkovic, 17, who then killed himself.

Sept. 13, 2006
Montreal, CanadaKimveer Gill, 25, opened fire with a semiautomatic weapon at Dawson College. Anastasia De Sousa, 18, died and more than a dozen students and faculty were wounded before Gill killed himself.

Nov. 7, 2007
Tuusula, FinlandAn 18-year-old student in southern Finland shot and killed five boys, two girls, and the female principal at Jokela High School. At least 10 others were injured. The gunman shot himself and died from his wounds in the hospital.

Sept. 23, 2008
Kauhajoki, FinlandA 20-year-old male student shot and killed at least nine students and himself at a vocational college in Kauhajok, 330km (205 miles) north of the capital, Helsinki.

Why is it we don't hear about these mass shootings in other countries...the world hears about all of ours...

March 11, 2009
Winnenden, GermanyFifteen people were shot and killed at Albertville Technical High School in southwestern Germany by a 17-year-old boy who attended the same school.

April 30, 2009
Azerbaijan, BakuA Georgian citizen of Azerbaijani descent killed 12 students and staff at Azerbaijan State Oil Academy. Several others were wounded.

April 7, 2011
Rio de Janeiro, BrazilA 23-year-old former student returned to his public elementary school in Rio de Janeiro and began firing, killing 12 children and seriously wounding more than a dozen others, before shooting himself in the head. While Brazil has seen gang-related violence in urban areas, this was the worst school shooting the country has ever seen.

Of course, one of the worst mass shootings...Norway...

July 22, 2011
Tyrifjorden, Buskerud, NorwayA gunman disguised as a policeman opened fire at a camp for young political activists on the island of Utoya. The gunman kills 68 campers, including personal friends of Prime Minister Stoltenberg. Police arrested Anders Behring Breivik, a 32-year-old Norwegian who had been been linked to an anti-Islamic group.

And another reason to be armed...muslim terrorism...maybe coming to a mall near you...it happened in Kenya, ...and don't forget the attack in Mumbai...

September 21, 2013
Nairobi, KenyaShabab militants, who are based in Somalia, attacked an upscale mall, killing nearly 70 people and wounding about 175. The siege lasted for three days, with persistent fighting between government troops and militants. The attack was meticulously planned, and the militants proved to be challenging for the government to dislodge from the Westgate mall.

 

[Noomi]

Doesn't fit the definition of a mass shooting.

Really, you are going to hide behind that...? That they were bad shots?

No, its the definition.

 

[2aguy]

and let's not forget South Korea...a place of absolute gun control...where a police officer did the killing...

Woo Bum-kon - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Woo Bum-kon (or Wou Bom-kon) (February 24, 1955 – April 27, 1982) was a South Korean police officer who killed 56 people and wounded 35 others in several villages inUiryeong County, Gyeongsangnam-do, South Korea, during the night from April 26 to April 27, 1982, before committing suicide.[1]

His rampage remained the deadliest known mass murder committed by a lone gunman in modern history until the Norway attacks of July 22, 2011.[2]

 

[Noomi]

Yeah but we are talking about America, not other countries.