gun facts for anti gunners...read at own risk...to your beliefs...

[Brain357]

That's not how the guy who complained saw it.

Another case...this guy didn't even pull his gun but someone called the police because he saw it on his person...

GUN WATCH VA Man charged with Brandishing for putting gun away

Like tens of thousands of other Virginians Corry carried a handgun legally for self defense. He intended to wear the gun at dinner which was with other gunowners who would be doing the same. He took the gun from his glovebox and placed it in the holster in his dash compartment. The reason for doing this was so he didn’t have to handle the gun in the parking lot, he merely had to strap it on.

The light turned green and he went to an enjoyable dinner and then home.
What he didn’t know was that Nathaniel Goodwyn, who was driving the bus behind him was angry that Corry hadn’t let him get into the turning Lane ahead of him.

Goodwyn had seen him move the gun and reported it to his security supervisor at Collegiate the next day, the security supervisor told an off-duty police officer who worked with the school.

At this point the story has gotten a lot like the teenage game of rumors. Each telling makes it worse. The officer obtained a warrant for brandishing a firearm.
Corry went to court on the 26th of this month. If the consequences hadn’t been so serious it would’ve been laughable. Goodwyn’s story changed several times while he was testifying for the prosecution. It reached the point to where he said Corry had glared at him and he could tell even though Corry was wearing sunglasses, a hat, and all he could see was the back of his head, that Corry had bad feelings because he focused on him.

I grew up in a legal family, married a judge’s daughter and have known dozens of judges both good and bad over the years. I have never however, seen a judge behave as badly as the one in this case. He simply did not want to hear any of the defense.

While Corry was testifying the judge was chatting with the clerk and filling out paperwork in other cases. He didn’t even bother to look at Corry.
Despite the absurdity of the charges and the testimony by Goodwyn, Corry was found guilty. To add to the judge’s misconduct, he sentenced Corry, who had no criminal record at all, to the maximum amount of jail time the law allows, then suspended half of it.

 

[2aguy]

Here is another study...2.5 million defensive gun uses...and the defense of these numbers...by Gary Kleck, a criminologist...

Myth 3 - 2.5 million defensive gun uses each year can t be accurate Buckeye Firearms Association

 

[Brain357]

He killed two teens. Of course they need to investigate what happened.

Man defending himself against a beating by three men with a baseball bat is arrested...

Man Being Beaten With Baseball Bat Faces Charges For Shooting His Attackers Updated - Bearing Arms

The 39-year-old man accused of shooting the two Wednesday afternoon while he was being beaten with a baseball bat is being held in the Milwaukee County Jail on possible homicide charges.

The shootings were reported about 1 p.m. Wednesday at an apartment building in the 1400 block of N. 27th St.

Police said an argument occurred between the janitor and three people: the teens and a 20-year-old man.

The argument in the apartment stairwell led to a physical altercation, during which the maintenance worker was being held while one of the three beat him with the bat, officials said Wednesday.

The janitor then drew a gun and fired, shooting the two teens, police said.

He was hospitalized for injuries related to the bat-beating and has since been released.

The maintenance worker is now being held in jail on two possible counts of first-degree intentional homicide, according to jail records.

Reading these stories....it is easy to see why interacting with the police can be intimidating and not to be desired...

 

[2aguy]

That's not how the guy who complained saw it.

yeah, exactly...and if he was wrong the guy still was arrested...and he didn't pull his gun, didn't shoot his gun and simply moved his gun to his glove compartment...because he couldn't carry it into the restuarant...

 

[Brain357]

Wow over 6,800 a day you say yet you can't come up with one news story a day? Sounds completely unbelievable. I'm still pretty sure most defenses happen at home and not on the street. So you say somebody breaks into a home and these gun owners still won't report it?

Here is another study...2.5 million defensive gun uses...and the defense of these numbers...by Gary Kleck, a criminologist...

Myth 3 - 2.5 million defensive gun uses each year can t be accurate Buckeye Firearms Association

 

[2aguy]

Here is another study that points to 1.5 million defensive gun uses each year...from an anti-gun group who, once again, finds out that the numbers they find don't match what they wanted to discover...so they discount their own study...typical gun grabbers...

Myth 3a - Is there independent evidence to supports Kleck and Gertz Buckeye Firearms Association

A recent study funded by the National Institute of Justice, and conducted by criminologists Phillip J. Cook of Duke University and Jens Ludwig of Georgetown University, on behalf of the pro-"gun control" Police Foundation (a non-profit Washington D.C.-based research group spun off from the Ford Foundation in 1970), found a reported 1.5 million annual DGUs in 1994, using the Kleck/Gertz criteria. The data for the Cook/Ludwig study were obtained from a nationwide random-digit-dialed telephone survey of 2,568 adults conducted during November and December of 1994 by Chilton Research Services of Drexel Hill, PA. While the authors of the Police Foundation study consider their survey to be "a reliable reference" for other purposes (such as estimating the percentage of gun-owning households), the DGU estimates, they say, are greatly exaggerated and not informative as to whether private gun ownership has a net positive or negative effect on crime.

 

[Brain357]

Or maybe he was trying to intimidate the guy who complained.

That's not how the guy who complained saw it.

yeah, exactly...and if he was wrong the guy still was arrested...and he didn't pull his gun, didn't shoot his gun and simply moved his gun to his glove compartment...because he couldn't carry it into the restuarant...

 

[2aguy]

Wow over 6,800 a day you say yet you can't come up with one news story a day? Sounds completely unbelievable.

Hey, if you want to comb through local news sources around the country each day...knock yourself out...I have better things to do...and totals from actual statistics...

 

[Brain357]

http://home.uchicago.edu/~ludwigj/papers/JPAM_Cook_Ludwig_Hemenway_2007.pdf

Here is another study that points to 1.5 million defensive gun uses each year...from an anti-gun group who, once again, finds out that the numbers they find don't match what they wanted to discover...so they discount their own study...typical gun grabbers...

Myth 3a - Is there independent evidence to supports Kleck and Gertz Buckeye Firearms Association

A recent study funded by the National Institute of Justice, and conducted by criminologists Phillip J. Cook of Duke University and Jens Ludwig of Georgetown University, on behalf of the pro-"gun control" Police Foundation (a non-profit Washington D.C.-based research group spun off from the Ford Foundation in 1970), found a reported 1.5 million annual DGUs in 1994, using the Kleck/Gertz criteria. The data for the Cook/Ludwig study were obtained from a nationwide random-digit-dialed telephone survey of 2,568 adults conducted during November and December of 1994 by Chilton Research Services of Drexel Hill, PA. While the authors of the Police Foundation study consider their survey to be "a reliable reference" for other purposes (such as estimating the percentage of gun-owning households), the DGU estimates, they say, are greatly exaggerated and not informative as to whether private gun ownership has a net positive or negative effect on crime.

 

[Brain357]

You have info from surveys. There are a lot of flaws in working with surveys. You have reported 250,000 to 2.5 million in all your statistics. Seems like they aren't very accurate. If they were accurate they would all result in the same number. Since they are all drastically different we can just throw them out as false.

Wow over 6,800 a day you say yet you can't come up with one news story a day? Sounds completely unbelievable.

Hey, if you want to comb through local news sources around the country each day...knock yourself out...I have better things to do...and totals from actual statistics...

 

[2aguy]

Hey, I even used your number 108,000 that hemenway, the anti gun guy agreed with....and still...

11-12,000 gun murders vs. your 108,000 crimes stopped and lives saved...your very own numbers don't work for you...

Here is a look at defense of Kleck's study...and a look at the faults of other studies...

Kleck-Gertz DGU Freq Study gunsandcrime

ADVANTAGES OF KLECK-GERTZ STUDY
1. Over all other studies

1. Asked the actually involved person questions rather than only asking "household" questions.
2. Determined the number of DGUs per DGU claimant.
3. Asked about DGUs of everyone, even those who didn't claim to own a gun.
4. Excluded uses against animals or any person other than a criminal.
5. Established sequence of DGU and injury in each case of DGU w/ injury.

2. Over the NCVS

1. K-G was anonymous, although some respondents might not believe that this was so.
2. K-G was not by or for a government agency, although some respondents might not believe that this was so.
3. K-G actually asked about DGUs. NCVS doesn't even specifically ask about self defense until victimization is already established.
4. K-G excluded DGUs that were performed as part of the respondents' jobs (e.g., police and security guard).

3. Over all other than NCVS

a. Used shorter recall period, so that forgetting is less significant.

 

[2aguy]

Since they are all drastically different we can just throw them out as false.

Nice try, but there are numbers...250-370,000 that appear to be the most accurate in the most studies...but Kleck can't just be dismissed...you would like to, but you can't...

 

[2aguy]

Kleck did his research and looked at other studies as well as his own...

PREVIOUS SURVEYS
Kleck's analyses of eleven private surveys imply from .7 to 3.6 million DGUs per year, but all these surveys had various problems. On the other hand, data from the most recent available US Department of Justice National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) yield only about 108,000 DGUs per year. Gun control advocates choose to use even lower estimates from earlier year NCVS data even though the NCVS has numerous problems, chief of which are the facts that many crimes are not reported in the NCVS and the survey does not even specifically ask about DGUs.

 

[Brain357]

And 232,000 guns stolen each year and put into the hands of criminals. How many people needed to defend themselves with a gun because the criminal had a gun he stole from another gun owner? Of the 108,000 how many actually needed a gun? Most criminals are trying to steal, not kill. A very small percentage of that 108,000 would be lives saved.

My numbers work just fine. If gun ownership really lowered crime and saved lives the US would be the safest country in the world. We are far from that.

Hey, I even used your number 108,000 that hemenway, the anti gun guy agreed with....and still...

11-12,000 gun murders vs. your 108,000 crimes stopped and lives saved...your very own numbers don't work for you...

Here is a look at Kleck's defense of his study...and a look at the faults of other studies...

Kleck-Gertz DGU Freq Study gunsandcrime

 

[bayoubill]

people...please...do your research...here is an anti gun biased piece from a main stream media news outlet that puts child gun deaths at 500 a year...not true, but even using their stats...that is nowhere near 28,000 deaths over 10 years...

Terrible tally 500 children dead from gunshots every year 7 500 hurt analysis finds - NBC News

Why is this completE horseshit...because the anti gunners always use 17,18,19 year old gang bangers with felony convictions and list them along side all the innocent children killed by criminals and drive by shootings...they are lying...again...and need to be called out...

in the national context, gun deaths are gun deaths. it shouldn't matter if you think they are "innocent" or not.

ummm... 'k... so, according to you, willful malevolent teenaged thugs who die at the hands of other willful malevolent teenaged thugs (over stuff like drugs, turf wars and bragging rights) should rightfully be included in gun-death statistics for children...?

 

[Brain357]

Why do they appear to be the most accurate? The 108,000 appears to be the most accurate to me.

Since they are all drastically different we can just throw them out as false.

Nice try, but there are numbers...250-370,000 that appear to be the most accurate in the most studies...but Kleck can't just be dismissed...you would like to, but you can't...

 

[bayoubill]

And 232,000 guns stolen each year and put into the hands of criminals. How many people needed to defend themselves with a gun because the criminal had a gun he stole from another gun owner? Of the 108,000 how many actually needed a gun? Most criminals are trying to steal, not kill. A very small percentage of that 108,000 would be lives saved.

My numbers work just fine. If gun ownership really lowered crime and saved lives the US would be the safest country in the world. We are far from that.

so... what would you suggest...?

 

[2aguy]

Except your guy hemenway...also said 200,000 was a good number as well...

Gun debate revives questions about self-defense

Hemenway, also relying on 1990s surveys, concluded Americans were then wielding guns for self-defense about 200,000 times annually.

 

[2aguy]

Most criminals are trying to steal, not kill. A very small percentage of that 108,000 would be lives saved.

So...when the guy sticks the gun in your face or you see him in your home...can you read his mind...? Do you know what their actual intent is? Would you bet your families safety on your hope that all the guy is after is your stuff...and not raping your wife and killing you....?

Everytime a criminal interacts with you there is a potential for serious injury or death...you don't know how it will turn out until it is over...so every event of the 108,000 is a potential life altering experience created by the criminal who is in control of how violent he will become...

and again, 108,000 is too low a number...

 

[Brain357]

Wow, quite the science this is. We got from 108k to 2.5 million. Very accurate. So I guess it is like 1.25 million plus or minus 1.25 million?

Except your guy hemenway...also said 200,000 was a good number as well...

Gun debate revives questions about self-defense

Hemenway, also relying on 1990s surveys, concluded Americans were then wielding guns for self-defense about 200,000 times annually.