gun facts for anti gunners...read at own risk...to your beliefs...

[2aguy]

predicated on the fact that American society perceives violence as a legitimate form of conflict resolution.

Actually, the more accurate point is that some humans perceive violence as not only the preferred way to resolve conflict but also as a way to empower themselves by brutalizing others...and if they are stronger, more numerous, and more aggressive, the old, the weak, smaller, females, the handicapped are all subject to their violence....unless....they have a means that compensate for their weakness,age, handicaps...and that is why guns are important...

You will never change the nature of violent human beings...but good people can stop them...if they have guns...

 

[2aguy]

Damn hypocrites SAY they care about fetuses but they sure don't give a hoot about children.

How many children have to die in order for it be an important issue?

And, do they all have to be white?

Hmmm..and who said that exactly...in fact, the hated NRA has child safety programs that teach kids to avoid guns...but the anti gunners block those programs from schools...so it is they who don't really care about dead children...a dead child from a gun accident helps their cause...not ours...


Teach gun safety along with fire safety in schools...it is a very simple program...Here is what the NRA teaches kids to do if they find an untended gun...

1) stop
2) don't touch
3) leave the room
4) find a responsible adult

but the gun grabbers fight this program...they don't care about dead children...to the gun grabber movement, dead children help the cause...it defeats ours...

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Billc said: ↑




when checked by politifact they themselves stated the numbers, though smaller, put Britain ahead of the U.S. In violent crime....then...being anti-gun liberals they cited criminal justice researchers at the end of the article, who they didn't mention by name or study and didn't bother to cite,before the end, that said you can't match the two countries...so they reversed their own findings and claimed it was false...

so even politic act verified that Britain is more violent than the U.S...by about two to one...


You don't understand.


This fails as a false comparison fallacy because you can't compare the United States to the UK, the two societies are completely different, with different perceptions of the legitimacy of violence as a means of conflict resolution, and where no one is advocating the gun laws of the UK be implemented in the United States.


The entire premise of your thread fails accordingly.

 

[2aguy]

well, politifact did...their results didn't support their version of reality though...

besides...it is the anti 2nd amendment people who always throw Britain, Australia and Japan at the pro 2nd amendment people...they are wrong to do it but it helps them push their agenda...

 

[2aguy]

where no one is advocating the gun laws of the UK be implemented in the United States.

both the sitting U.S. President and the possible future democrat President cited Australian gun laws and their desire to have their policies here...

Obama...

US president Barack Obama praises Australia s tough gun control laws - ABC News Australian Broadcasting Corporation

 

[Luddly Neddite]

where no one is advocating the gun laws of the UK be implemented in the United States.

both the sitting U.S. President and the possible future democrat President cited Australian gun laws and their desire to have their policies here...

Obama...

US president Barack Obama praises Australia s tough gun control laws - ABC News Australian Broadcasting Corporation

In point of fact, President Obama has loosened several US gun laws.

 

[2aguy]

Well, selling guns to Mexican drug cartels is hardly loosening our gun laws...

 

[Brain357]

Yes but it was so few guns right?

Well, selling guns to Mexican drug cartels is hardly loosening our gun laws...

 

[2aguy]

A lot more than was legal...over a thousand...and some were actual rifles that could be selectively fired...

 

[Brain357]

So after going on about how 232,000 isn't that many guns, now you are going to say 1000 is? That doesn't sound very honest.

A lot more than was legal...over a thousand...and some were actual rifles that could be selectively fired...

 

[2aguy]

From CNN, 1,400 guns were sold to drug cartels on orders from obama's justice department...causing over 300 deaths of Mexican citizens

Operation Fast and Furious Fast Facts - CNN.com

 

[2aguy]

So after going on about how 232,000 isn't that many guns, now you are going to say 1000 is? That doesn't sound very honest.

Really...you don't get the difference between guns being stolen from law abiding citizens and a President who has lead the charge to ban guns forcing American gun dealers to sell guns to Mexican drug gangs...?

 

[Brain357]

I think they are both bad. I don't see how you can act like 232,000 guns going to criminals is some tiny number, then act like 1000 is a huge number.

So after going on about how 232,000 isn't that many guns, now you are going to say 1000 is? That doesn't sound very honest.

Really...you don't get the difference between guns being stolen from law abiding citizens and a President who has lead the charge to ban guns forcing American gun dealers to sell guns to Mexican drug gangs...?

 

[2aguy]

gun rights supporters actually support gun safety, especially for children...

Kids take gun safety class in Newtown - Local 12 WKRC-TV Cincinnati - Top Stories

NEWTOWN, Ohio (Angela Ingram) -- Kids as young as 5-years-old are handling guns in a class set up for children. Chris Roma, owner of Ready Line in Newtown said, "Tonight is our final night at Ready Line of a four week course that we put youngsters through to learn gun safety, to give them proper training, and to use common sense when you're handling firearms" "Since she's going to be raised around them," said Eric Anderson, a parent with his daughter in the class. "I wanted her to be safe around them and we go over all the rules at home but if she sees what they can do what kind of danger there is around them and how to handle them safely I wanted her to know." Eric Anderson was one of the first parents to ask ready line's owner to offer a pee-wee class. Before heading to the range, they learn firearms safety in the classroom. Peyton Hughes learned a few things at class. "Always keep your finger off the trigger when you're not shooting and always remember to point it in a safe direction"

Read More at: Kids take gun safety class in Newtown - Local 12 WKRC-TV Cincinnati - Top Stories

 

[2aguy]

think they are both bad. I don't see how you can act like 232,000 guns going to criminals is some tiny number, then act like 1000 is a huge number.

compared to the number of guns not stolen and not used in crime...and the number of guns used each year to stop crime and save lives ( in some studies over 600,000 times a year), no, that number is tiny compared to the good that guns help to make happen...

 

[bigrebnc1775]

What a crock. Why did they recall the Pinto and the Tylenol?? Because they were defective.

Are the guns defective?

Why not recall cars because of the 48k deaths?

Some firearms are defective I would never carry one unless I have broken it down and inspected every part within the firearm. I don't need government regulation on something I do.

 

[Brain357]

Gun safety instructor accidentally shoots student - CNN.com

gun rights supporters actually support gun safety, especially for children...

Kids take gun safety class in Newtown - Local 12 WKRC-TV Cincinnati - Top Stories

NEWTOWN, Ohio (Angela Ingram) -- Kids as young as 5-years-old are handling guns in a class set up for children. Chris Roma, owner of Ready Line in Newtown said, "Tonight is our final night at Ready Line of a four week course that we put youngsters through to learn gun safety, to give them proper training, and to use common sense when you're handling firearms" "Since she's going to be raised around them," said Eric Anderson, a parent with his daughter in the class. "I wanted her to be safe around them and we go over all the rules at home but if she sees what they can do what kind of danger there is around them and how to handle them safely I wanted her to know." Eric Anderson was one of the first parents to ask ready line's owner to offer a pee-wee class. Before heading to the range, they learn firearms safety in the classroom. Peyton Hughes learned a few things at class. "Always keep your finger off the trigger when you're not shooting and always remember to point it in a safe direction"

Read More at: Kids take gun safety class in Newtown - Local 12 WKRC-TV Cincinnati - Top Stories

 

[Brain357]

I guess your answers just depend on what side of your mouth is talking. Good to know.

think they are both bad. I don't see how you can act like 232,000 guns going to criminals is some tiny number, then act like 1000 is a huge number.

compared to the number of guns not stolen and not used in crime...and the number of guns used each year to stop crime and save lives ( in some studies over 600,000 times a year), no, that number is tiny compared to the good that guns help to make happen...

 

[2aguy]

my answers are based on reality...not emotion...

 

[Pogo]

If I could snap my fingers and make every gun in the US disappear I would. But even if we banned all new gun sales overnght there'd still be more guns in distribution than there are poeple. So unless 'gun control' means gun confiscation, outlawing a few brands or models here and there wont actually do anything. And all that's achieved every time someone tries is there's a rush on whatever isn't illegal, or illegal yet. Attempts to ban guns paradoxically help gun sales putting more out there.

Solution to gun violence isn't restricting the method people use to display violence. It's correcting the behaviours which lead to people becomming violent in the first place.

If you banned every gun overnight, all you'd succeed doing is ensuring only criminals (who don't give a shit what gun's illegal) have guns.

Bravo. That's what I've been saying since I got here.

I came to this site shortly after, and during the discussion window of, the Bob Costas commentary on the Jovan Belcher murder-suicide. Costas made the same point, yet it was immediately, and still to this day, described as a "gun control rant" even though he never once mentioned "gun control", "gun laws", the Second Amendment, background checks or any kind of legislative influence whatsoever. The question of gun culture -- which was his entire point, is one they continually try to avoid, always trying to deflect back to legislation this and Constitution that and then bury everybody in a slew of meaningless statistics. Of which this thread is just another me-too clone.

Wags from every corner were calling for Costas to be "fired" for starting this conversation. In the next few weeks, during which Sandy Hook happened, the same wags calling for Bob Costas to be "fired" were calling for David Gregory to be "arrested" and Piers Morgan to be "deported" for having the same conversation in the national media. A month later I started this thread on debunking gun myths, heavily documented with links, and got barraged with Negs, once again for simply starting the same conversation. See the pattern. Heavy emotional worship investment. That's what we call a fetishism. It's all too revealing when ideas are treated not as opinions to counter, but rather, as blasphemy.

We live in a culture of violence. There's no whitewashing that. Yet utter it in terms of Almighty Gun and in comes the rhetorical blitzkrieg, proving the point simply by its essence. It's way too inconvenient to face the fact of a culture based on "might makes right", the concept that force conquers all and morals be damned. If social cultures were a person, our maturity level would be that of about a freaking four-year-old.

I see Captain Pigblob has danced in to toss fake-negs at this post while courageously making no comment in the thread at all. Which makes him even more of a pussy than the OP who tries to avoid scutiny by cutting and pasting instead of quoting...

Here to follow up on the original idea is a rerun of a post in the archives. Enjoy.

_____________________________________________________________________________
A tale of two cities...
split by a river, kinda like Minneapolis and St. Paul are but this is a different pair of cities.

Obviously being next to each other, these cities have much in common regionally, climatically, industrially and so on. They are less than a mile apart, connected by a bridge and a tunnel. But the two cities show a stark difference in one area.

The city on the western end of the bridge recorded 377 total homicides in 2011 and 327 in 2010, according to police statistics(1), carrying a homicide rate of around 50 per 100,000 people.

Across the bridge in the same time period, there was a total of one. For both years put together. A rate of 0.30. From September 27, 2009 to November 22, 2011 in that city, there were no murders at all. Zero.

What's going on here?

One of them is in Canada. The cities are Detroit and Windsor.

I haven't determined how many of those homicides were committed by firearm, but for a guide, out of 386 Detroit homicides in 2012, 333 were by firearm. Over 86%. (1)

And the one murder that finally broke the 2011 streak in Windsor? It was a stabbing.

People in his city of about 215,000 have a saying, Blaine said Friday afternoon: "In Windsor, when a 7-Eleven is held up, it usually is a knife. In Detroit, it is an Uzi."

It's not that there's no crime in Windsor, an industrial city that has seen its own economic challenges. "We're no different than any other major metropolitan area," Corey said. (here)

704 to 1 in homicide; several hundred to zero in gun deaths.
Detroit: at or near the highest murder rate in its country; Windsor: lowest in its country.
Less than a mile apart.

What's driving the difference? Gun control? Or gun culture?

Resources/further reading:
(1) 2012 Crime/Homicide Stats

(2) Freep.com 1/3/13

A Tale of Two Cities

Murder-Free Two Years

__________________________________________________________________________

That's all. You may return to your wankfest echo chamber pot.