Gunman at DC Navy Yard shoots at least 7

[Spoonman]

here's a little tip. until we address and solve the violence problem in america, we're fixing nothing. Guns are not the problem. they are simply one of many tools used by a much larger problem. the solutions being offered do nothing to stop the bigger problem. but they do hamper and infringe on the rights of those who are not part of the bigger problem.

it really is time we stop penalizing the innocent for a problem we aren't really trying to fix

 

[eflatminor]

They don't obtain them from legitimate sources because of background checks. Duh

Then please, stop rambling on about background checks.

Now your lying. What have I suggested that restricts anyone from defending themselves?

You support gun free zones for one. You support waiting periods. You support limiting the type of firearms, ammunition and accessories we KNOW the bad guys will have, thereby putting good people at a tactical disadvantage. These bullshit 'feel good' rules restrict our God given and Constitutional right to self defense.

So you'd let felons buy guns, that should really help.

I never said states shouldn't require background checks, even though we all know felons get their firearms by other means. So you're lying, once again.

Studies show defense requires no more than 3 shots. Your big guns are just feel good for the paranoid. Meanwhile they are mowing down innocents.

That you were not able to defend your support of restricting law abiding citizens from protecting themselves is telling. And you clearly have no idea what a "big gun" is. But hey, the ad hominem was a nice try...

 

[Spoonman]

Do you assume that folks are incapable of multitasking? That moral outrage can be directed in one direction at a time? Or do you find arguing against alcohol easier than finding a workable solution to the plague of gun violence? Is that merely a distraction, or can you find no solutions to either problem?

I know what I see with my own eyes.

Do you see a national movement to restrict alcohol?

Anyone pushing that?

No.

The amount you can drink before driving is limited. Just like we should limit magazine capacity.

so we'll go with your analogy. yes, there is a limit on what you can drink BEFORE YOU DRIVE. But ther is no limit on what you can drink. and ther should be no limit on the size of your magazine.

 

[Spoonman]

Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Those countries have on average, one third of the gun ownership of the US and one quarter of our murder rate

And they ALWAYS had it. You really are an unethical little asshat aren't you. Report the real stats you propagandist.

These are the real stats and are linked

The US has twice the gun ownership of the next closest country. Guns are readilly accessible to the American public and we have a murder rate four times that of similar (EU) nations

Nothing is going to change that. We love our guns and are willing to put up with increased murders, assasinations and massacres

It is the price we pay for our second amendment

again with the pointless argument. those other countries had low rates when they were allowed guns. guns, no guns, makes no difference

 

[Brain357]

here's a little tip. until we address and solve the violence problem in america, we're fixing nothing. Guns are not the problem. they are simply one of many tools used by a much larger problem. the solutions being offered do nothing to stop the bigger problem. but they do hamper and infringe on the rights of those who are not part of the bigger problem.

it really is time we stop penalizing the innocent for a problem we aren't really trying to fix

What do you suggest?

 

[Nosmo King]

You accept drunk driving deaths as a consequence of legal alcohol, and it has no Constitutional protection.

And more children are "lying in pools of their own blood" as a direct result of alcohol than guns.

Where is your outrage?

At least guns serve a purpose...hunting and self protection.

Alcohol serves NO useful purpose.

Why is there no push to restrict it?

You should get down off your moral high horse before you fall off.

Do you assume that folks are incapable of multitasking? That moral outrage can be directed in one direction at a time? Or do you find arguing against alcohol easier than finding a workable solution to the plague of gun violence? Is that merely a distraction, or can you find no solutions to either problem?

I know what I see with my own eyes.

Do you see a national movement to restrict alcohol?

Anyone pushing that?

No.

Two historical words to contemplate: Volstead Act

 

[Brain357]

I know what I see with my own eyes.

Do you see a national movement to restrict alcohol?

Anyone pushing that?

No.

The amount you can drink before driving is limited. Just like we should limit magazine capacity.

so we'll go with your analogy. yes, there is a limit on what you can drink BEFORE YOU DRIVE. But ther is no limit on what you can drink. and ther should be no limit on the size of your magazine.

There is a limit on the amount of alcohol. I didn't say limit caliber or type of gun, I said limit magazine capacity.

 

[rightwinger]

And they ALWAYS had it. You really are an unethical little asshat aren't you. Report the real stats you propagandist.

These are the real stats and are linked

The US has twice the gun ownership of the next closest country. Guns are readilly accessible to the American public and we have a murder rate four times that of similar (EU) nations

Nothing is going to change that. We love our guns and are willing to put up with increased murders, assasinations and massacres

It is the price we pay for our second amendment

If you got your ban, mass shootings will increase 10 fold, as they did in the UK.
Idiot!

Bullshit

 

[Missourian]

Do you assume that folks are incapable of multitasking? That moral outrage can be directed in one direction at a time? Or do you find arguing against alcohol easier than finding a workable solution to the plague of gun violence? Is that merely a distraction, or can you find no solutions to either problem?

I know what I see with my own eyes.

Do you see a national movement to restrict alcohol?

Anyone pushing that?

No.

The amount you can drink before driving is limited. Just like we should limit magazine capacity.

Fine by me...allow me to buy a 30 round magazine...but make a law that says I can only have 10 in it legally...just like alcohol.

 

[Spoonman]

here's a little tip. until we address and solve the violence problem in america, we're fixing nothing. Guns are not the problem. they are simply one of many tools used by a much larger problem. the solutions being offered do nothing to stop the bigger problem. but they do hamper and infringe on the rights of those who are not part of the bigger problem.

it really is time we stop penalizing the innocent for a problem we aren't really trying to fix

What do you suggest?

a comprehensive list of my suggestions would take a lot more time then i have right now. but for starters -

jails would no longer be country clubs. hard time for hard crimes. bring back chain gangs and work details.

fix our immigration problem. eliminate anchor babies. if you are not here legally you are eligible for no assitance. at all. we have to start sending the right message.

you are on welfare and you can't afford kids on your own, you don't have kids. and you don't get paid more to keep making more.

we need to focus more on education. there is no excuse for kids to be in school doing nothing. future generations have to be made aware if you go through life and do not get an education or learn a trade, you are not eligible for entitlements. no more of this, i'm not qualified so i can't get a job.

any form of violent attacks should carry mandatory strict penalties.

 

[Spoonman]

The amount you can drink before driving is limited. Just like we should limit magazine capacity.

so we'll go with your analogy. yes, there is a limit on what you can drink BEFORE YOU DRIVE. But ther is no limit on what you can drink. and ther should be no limit on the size of your magazine.

There is a limit on the amount of alcohol. I didn't say limit caliber or type of gun, I said limit magazine capacity.

there is no legal limit on the amount of alcohol you can drink.

 

[Missourian]

so we'll go with your analogy. yes, there is a limit on what you can drink BEFORE YOU DRIVE. But ther is no limit on what you can drink. and ther should be no limit on the size of your magazine.

There is a limit on the amount of alcohol. I didn't say limit caliber or type of gun, I said limit magazine capacity.

there is no legal limit on the amount of alcohol you can drink.

It's on the honor system...I am amenable to the same for magazines.

 

[rightwinger]

Love it.
Luddie was silenced with embarrassment when I showed him reality!!

Now Rightwinger has been silenced.

The truth will always silence the fanatical liberal totalitarians of the Obamacult.

Self declared victories are always so fulfilling

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Please share a link to where someone was shot 15 times and walked to the hospital. They are statistics gun people throw around. Isn't this a pro gun site?
Self-Defense Journal

I heard 2 cops were shot. Has that changed like much of the story?

How about some national company with thousands of employees?

I said ambulance, not hospital.

But this guy was shot 5 times and walked to the hospital, which blows your 3 shots fake study out of the water.

Victim Shot Multiple Times Walks To Hospital - Philadelphia News, Weather and Sports from WTXF FOX 29

Like I said, the FBI says he had access to a pistol from a guard. There was an MPD officer that was also shot, and reports say that they didn't recover his weapon from him at the hospital, but that doesn't mean anyone took it.

He was shot in the lower extremities. If you shoot for the lower extremities in defense it's your own fault if he's not stopped. Try again.

Gunners use fake studies?

You seem to be saying there were 2 officers which agrees with me.

People have died after being shot in the foot, others take rounds to the head and shake it off.

 

[MikeK]

The amount you can drink before driving is limited. Just like we should limit magazine capacity.

so we'll go with your analogy. yes, there is a limit on what you can drink BEFORE YOU DRIVE. But ther is no limit on what you can drink. and ther should be no limit on the size of your magazine.

There is a limit on the amount of alcohol. I didn't say limit caliber or type of gun, I said limit magazine capacity.

And you will create another black market item.

There are millions of high capacity magazines presently at large. They are not serial numbered. Very few can be traced via sales records, which would be an extremely difficult task to attempt and would net minimal results.

So the bottom line result of an attempted purge of high capacity magazines would increase the black market price of an item that cost $20 when it was legally available to $100. A price which any suicidal psycho who is planning a mass shooting would be glad to pay.

When contemplating any kind of ban, consider the success level of the War on Drugs. Recreational drugs are more available today than when the drug war was initiated -- and they cost less.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's not guns that are the problem, it's our tolerance for the criminal element. We just do not have serious deterrents to crime. No consequences result in increased risk taking

We have all these guns, 50% of all owned in the world, yet you are 30% less likely to die of homicide in the USA than you are outside her borders

It's our failed diversity experiment that has America sailing like a ship without a rudder

-Geaux

Again your comparing us to 3rd world countries. You must think very little of this country. Compare us to to developed countries and we're 4X more likely. You don't even think we belong in the company of developed countries?

Let me guess, you define civilized world as any country that has a lower homicide rate than the US.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's not guns that are the problem, it's our tolerance for the criminal element. We just do not have serious deterrents to crime. No consequences result in increased risk taking

We have all these guns, 50% of all owned in the world, yet you are 30% less likely to die of homicide in the USA than you are outside her borders

It's our failed diversity experiment that has America sailing like a ship without a rudder

-Geaux

Yes, you are less likely to die of crime in America than in a third world country having a civil war.

Like that's something to be proud of.

However, you are MUCH MORE likely to die of crime in the US than any other industrialized, advanced democracy, which is what we supposedly are.

The only thing that has failed is our libertarian expirment that ignores our obligations to each other as a society.

If we have 270 million guns, and 2 million people in prison, and we STILL have the highest murder rates in the industrialized world, then we are just plain doing it wrong.

Why do you use a 19th century metric to define a 21st century planet? What makes Russia not an industrialized advanced democracy? Is it the inconvenient truth that they have a higher murder rate, and a higher firearm homicide rate, than the US?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Again your comparing us to 3rd world countries. You must think very little of this country. Compare us to to developed countries and we're 4X more likely. You don't even think we belong in the company of developed countries?

We are part of the world for which all guns are part of. This is why there are only 300 million guns outside our borders, and we have the rest. And yet, you are 12x more likely to die of homicide outside the USA.

-Geaux

Again, comparing us to third world countries is disingenous.

Other advanced industrialized democracies BAN guns, and they have very low murder rates.

Poor third world countries allow guns (or can't enforce their own laws) and have high murder rates.

So we have a goal we should want to move towards, and a goal we want to avoid.

Unless you are a gun whack, and just think the problem is that we don't have enough people running around shooting other people.

Except when they don't, but keep repeating the lie, it saves me the trouble of actually dealing with you as an honest debater.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Again your comparing us to 3rd world countries. You must think very little of this country. Compare us to to developed countries and we're 4X more likely. You don't even think we belong in the company of developed countries?

We are part of the world for which all guns are part of. This is why there are only 300 million guns outside our borders, and we have the rest. And yet, you are 12x more likely to die of homicide outside the USA.

-Geaux

So the right considers us a 3rd world country. That explains a lot. Most their policies are 3rd world. Just be aware once we truly get there we will not have the huge army anymore.

I don't consider any country third world just because it makes it easier for me to score points in a debate.

Did you know that there are more cell phones on the planet than people? That even countries you dismiss as third world have cell phones and internet access, some of them to a much greater extent than the US? When do you plan on moving into the 21st century instead of pretending that industrialization is the major driving force of the world economy?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

[
We do not have the highest murder rates.
We are just honest in the way we compile the numbers.
The UK government will not record a murder as a murder until a conviction has been secured. This is probably true for most EU states.
In the USA a murder is recorded as such once the body has been found and other causes of death ruled out.
Do try to keep up.

Right.

That works on the assumption that British Cops are like escapees from a Monty Python Sketch.

The UK only had 648 murders last year. (only 48 with guns)

We had 15, 900 - (11,101 with guns)

Now either they have a really crappy conviction rate or you are full of shit.

I'm going with the latter.

What makes you think they are significantly better at solving crimes, and getting a conviction, than US cops?