Guns are to blame--not people.

[Jarlaxle]

At that point, the police should have arrested him. He had already shown himself, by his action of carelessly discharging a firearm, to be an unreasonable danger to others.

To leave him free, to create more danger, was an act of malfeasance on the part of the police.

More likely...Joey made the whole thing up.

 

[Rogue AI]

1) The Second Amendment is about Militias, not guns.
2) Yes, you absolutely should take away people's guns if they are dangerous.

The best argument for gun control is a conversation with a gun nut.

No it's not. What foolish nonsense you spew.

We have due process to determine if someone is dangerous, it requires lawfully obtained evidence and a guilty plea/verdict. You gun grabbing morons are trying to legislate away our rights.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Yes, because this guy looks perfectly normal. You should totally sell him an assault rifle with a 100 round clip.

View attachment 592006
Don't check with his school, which was in the process of throwing him out for mental instability, or check with his family. Nope, just rely on the Federal Background check system which was intentionally underfunded at the insistence of the NRA.

Yeah...looks like a nut to me.

Wait, no, he looks like a million other people.

 

[Jarlaxle]

not a problem for me! If I had a gun nut living next door and saw him slapping his old lady around, damn straight I'd report him. That's actually the decent thing to do.

I expect you are SALIVATING at the thought of SWATing someone who owns guns.

 

[JoeB131]

If they had locked him up, perhaps he would still be alive. Perhaps not. I don't know how bad his cancer was, but perhaps locking him up would have just condemned him to a much more painful death from cancer instead of a clean, quick, bullet in his head.

In any event, at that point, it was clear that this man was a danger to others. He had already behaved in a manner that put other people in danger, and which demonstrated a lack of concern for the danger that he was causing to others. For the safety of others, if not his own safety, he needed to be locked up. Your ersatz concern over what might have been “cruel” to him pales next to your depraved-heart indifference toward the danger that he posed to others.

Again. Take away his gun. He's not a danger to others, and he's not a danger to himself.

It's tempting to think that one of @CrimIncel Joe's motives for wanting his neighbor's gun to be taken, but the neighbor and his belongings left be, was a desire to burgle that neighbor's apartment, knowing that the neighbor was now sick, weak, disarmed, and somewhat lacking in credibility after the first event, making him a perfect target, unable to defend any of his property, or even to be taken seriously when he tried to tell police who robbed him.

Actually, I was one of the few people who talked to the guy. I even loaned him some money so he could get gasoline for his car to get somewhere. (He blew his brains out before he could pay me back.)

Do you really believe that guns are the only things that thieves are interested in stealing?

Do you really believe that a criminal will only break into a home to rob it, if he thinks the owner has guns?

Of course you don't. Even you are not that stupid.

Um, as stated, 380,000 guns are stolen every year. Guns are probably a top commodity for thieves, as they can be easily fenced. You see, most burglars don't break into a house when people are home. That would be stupid, if they have guns or not. The penalty for a home invasion is much higher than a burglary. They are usually smart enough to case the home to make sure nobody is there, then they have the run of the place. And because the NRA is against gun safes, they easily pick up any guns in the house.

 

[JoeB131]

Really? The NRA? You have a credible link to that? Of course not. More bullshit you make up as you type.

After the victims of the DC Snipers won a big judgement from the gun maker and seller, the NRA ran whining to Congress and got a law passed indemnifying them from liability from gun crime.

Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Which means you can sell an assault rifle to the Joker with no worries about liability.

You can't deny selling somebody a firearm because you don't like the way they looked. A gun seller does not have the training or expertise to make that determination. And what if he was a minority? That's another lawsuit waiting to happen.

That's why you have waiting periods to check the person out if you aren't sure about them. A simple call to members of Holmes' family or his school would have proven he was coo-coo for cocopuffs. But that call never got made. Why should it. The gun seller was protected by law no matter how reckless the sale was.

If bars have to check ID"s then bars have to check ID's. how hard is that? Why do you commies have so many problems with ID's anyway? In our state you have to present an ID to buy cigarettes. My mother is 87 years old, and they make her present her ID before being allowed to buy her cigarettes. If that's the law, you obey it. Break the law, and you face a heavy fine.

Again, walked into a liquor store the other day to buy my weekly bottle of wine... the sign on the door said, "Two ID's required". Guy didn't even bother asking for my ID.

So how much more do the rest of us non law breakers have to pay for a car by them installing a $1,000 blow meter in each one because of the few that drive drunk. My solution doesn't cost anybody a dime but the offender. Plus my solution would work.

Why do you have to pay extra for seat belts and airbags because of the few who get into serious accidents?

No, they likely had no evidence to arrest him. The cops make the claim he shot a gun, he denies it, there is no evidence that he did, and they can't arrest him.

Actually, the guy admitted he shot the gun after the cops confronted him about the fact that the glass was blown outside, and there were no bullet holes INSIDE the unit. We aren't talking about a master criminal here. We're talking about a guy who fucked up, made up a lie, was immediately caught and fessed up. The next step SHOULD have been to confiscate the gun and make him seek counselling. Instead, the cops felt sorry for him, and a few days later, he shot himself. Nobody lost his job over this.

The reduction of crime is proportional with more and more states adopting CCW programs and laws that switched the guilt from the victim to the criminal. But those added laws such as Stop and Frisk plus Three Strikes certainly played a part in the cities that had such policies. When they got rid of them, violent crime once again increased.

Nope. Nothing to do with it.

Crime went down because the baby boomers aged out of the "Dumb-ass" phase. It went back up again because Trump did what Republicans do best, wrecked the economy.

 

[JoeB131]

No it's not. What foolish nonsense you spew.

We have due process to determine if someone is dangerous, it requires lawfully obtained evidence and a guilty plea/verdict. You gun grabbing morons are trying to legislate away our rights.

what rights? your right to murder your spouse? Your right to terrorize your neighbors? The second Amendment was about militias, not gun ownership. The Founding Slave Rapists never meant for guns to be owned by the great unwashed.

Yeah...looks like a nut to me.

Wait, no, he looks like a million other people.

That looks "normal" to you, Ditchweed? Sadly, it probably does.

I expect you are SALIVATING at the thought of SWATing someone who owns guns.

Damn straight. I want the ATF to be as feared as the IRS.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

From links that's been posted on this topic it could be yelling at your spouse and making threats against her. Not even any physical contact. It could be a scratch on her arm or some other superficial wound she "claims" to have suffered from you. Any kind of physical touching even if you grab her by the shoulders and shake her while you're trying to make a verbal point.

Your wife is not your child, so why would you ever need to grab her to make a verbal point. The verbal abuse usually turns into physical abuse.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

Should his victim have been armed?

Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

 

[Claudette]

JackOfNoTrades
I agree. Turn and walk away. Keep out of his or her way and get out of the house any way you can. You sure as hell don't touch anyone. Not a good outcome if you do and the cops are called.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Your wife is not your child, so why would you ever need to grab her to make a verbal point. The verbal abuse usually turns into physical abuse.

I don't want to debate that. You asked a question and I answered it. I was just throwing out random examples of what a misdemeanor domestic violence is.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

After the victims of the DC Snipers won a big judgement from the gun maker and seller, the NRA ran whining to Congress and got a law passed indemnifying them from liability from gun crime.

Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Which means you can sell an assault rifle to the Joker with no worries about liability.



That's why you have waiting periods to check the person out if you aren't sure about them. A simple call to members of Holmes' family or his school would have proven he was coo-coo for cocopuffs. But that call never got made. Why should it. The gun seller was protected by law no matter how reckless the sale was.



Again, walked into a liquor store the other day to buy my weekly bottle of wine... the sign on the door said, "Two ID's required". Guy didn't even bother asking for my ID.



Why do you have to pay extra for seat belts and airbags because of the few who get into serious accidents?


Actually, the guy admitted he shot the gun after the cops confronted him about the fact that the glass was blown outside, and there were no bullet holes INSIDE the unit. We aren't talking about a master criminal here. We're talking about a guy who fucked up, made up a lie, was immediately caught and fessed up. The next step SHOULD have been to confiscate the gun and make him seek counselling. Instead, the cops felt sorry for him, and a few days later, he shot himself. Nobody lost his job over this.




Nope. Nothing to do with it.

Crime went down because the baby boomers aged out of the "Dumb-ass" phase. It went back up again because Trump did what Republicans do best, wrecked the economy.

I swear, you are so demonic you can't even stop yourself from this compulsive lying problem of yours. Trump wrecked the economy is something an 8 year old can tell you you're full of shit on. You're like that guy at a formal party with his fly open exposing his underwear. Everybody is laughing at you but you have no clue as to why.

So how were you able to dig into your neighbors story Mrs Cravits? How do you know the police didn't take away the gun he used? You do realize that most of us gun owners have more than one firearm, don't you?

I know you've never been in a gun store in your life, but let me tell you they are busy at times. They don't have time to be calling people about a customer. Even if they did, what makes the person they are calling legit? The gun store owner only sells guns, that's it. If it's approved by the government, that's all the gun owner needs to sell a firearm to anybody regardless what their opinion of them is. They are not responsible for what a person does with the product they sold them. Can you sue a car dealership because they sold a car to somebody that got drunk and hit you? Of course not, that would be stupid.

laws very frojm state to state. In Ohio, anybody selling tobacco products must have a sign on their door they do not sell tobacco to anybody under the age of 21, and must card every customer regardless of their obvious age.

 

[hadit]

not a problem for me! If I had a gun nut living next door and saw him slapping his old lady around, damn straight I'd report him. That's actually the decent thing to do.



Actually, the thieves would pass that one up. No guns to steal.

Gun Theft In America

Gun theft is on the rise in the U.S. and it's increasingly becoming an issue where guns are stolen from vehicles. If you travel with firearms, you need to make sure they're locked up when unattended.

truckvault.com

Every day in the U.S., roughly 1 gun is stolen every 90 seconds. That amounts to around 380,000 stolen guns every year, many of which are later used to commit violent crimes. People buy guns to help protect themselves, but when they don’t protect them from being stolen, they’re putting themselves and their communities in danger.

Now, given that accorind to the FBI, there are 1,117,696, it means that one out of three burglaries involved stealing a gun. Guns don't prevent crimes.



Again, most burglaries happen when no one is home. Understandable, if you break into a house when someone is home, the charge ups to "Home Invasion" and that's a whole other peck of trouble you don't need.

So in addition to gun proliferation causing 23,000 suicides, a large chunk of the 16,000 homicides, and 380,000 guns getting into the wrong hands every year... how is this a benefit again?

View attachment 592017

Interesting that you seem to believe the only things thieves are looking for are firearms. Not jewelry, not cash, not artwork, not electronics, just firearms. Is that really what you believe?
Another interesting thing you seem to believe is that guns cause suicide and homicide. You explicitly stated it. Again, is that really what you believe?

Tell us this. Since you seem to believe that a home known to have no firearms is of less interest to thieves than one that does, why do we not see signs posted in front yards everywhere proclaiming the house has no weapons? I'll help you answer that since I don't believe you will give an honest answer. We don't see those signs because the opposite is true. People understand that publicly announcing your house has no firearms while your neighbor has no such sign makes your house a target.

 

[Rogue AI]

what rights? your right to murder your spouse? Your right to terrorize your neighbors? The second Amendment was about militias, not gun ownership. The Founding Slave Rapists never meant for guns to be owned by the great unwashed.



That looks "normal" to you, Ditchweed? Sadly, it probably does.


Damn straight. I want the ATF to be as feared as the IRS.

How did Alexander Hamilton die? Be specific, then go ahead and tell me all about militias. You fucking morons have no clue about anything. Educate yourself before attempting to infringe on my rights.

 

[Jarlaxle]

That looks "normal" to you, Ditchweed? Sadly, it probably does.

Random guy with glasses and a beard. You could walk past him on the street and have no idea who he is.

 

[Independent thinker]

The biggest problem in Ohio is that our gun laws simply are not strong enough. Domestic violence policy expert Julia Webber serves as the implementation director of the Gifford’s Law Center, a national organization striving to make America safer by working to end gun violence.

“So, unfortunately, and tragically, too many people who have lost their lives as a result of domestic violence and how often that’s been connected to use of firearms,” said Webber.

While federal laws are in place, the Gifford’s Law Center says Ohio doesn’t have any laws stopping people who are convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence from buying firearms or ammunition and the same goes for those who have domestic violence protective orders against them.

The center said there are also no state laws requiring the removal or surrender of firearms from a suspect when a protection order is issued in domestic violence cases.

“We want to ensure that we actually allow for relinquishment, and surrender or seizure, if necessary, to ensure that those firearms are separated from someone who’s about to be violent,” Webber said.

Domestic violence cases on the rise in Ohio, experts believe state’s gun laws to blame

Domestic violence cases on the rise in Ohio, experts believe our state’s gun laws are to blame

www.cleveland19.com

When you ask leftists about the government taking our guns, they say nobody wants to take away your guns. Well here is a leftist that says they do.

What this kook is saying is that if your girlfriend or wife files a protection order against you, the government should be allowed to come to your home and take away your firearms even if no violence was involved. Simply get a protection order and that's all that should be needed to violate your constitutional rights. What is a misdemeanor domestic violence? I never heard of it, so I looked it up. Here is what I found for our state:

Threatening to cause harm to a family member or household member, even if you do not physically assault the person, can still result in a fourth-degree misdemeanor.

So if you tell your girlfriend or wife "Yeah, and I'll slap you around" you can be charged with this misdemeanor domestic violence law and have your firearms taken away just for that if it was up to this Julia Weber person.

What the left never understands is that bad people will get both guns and ammunition if they want them. You can't expect gun control legislation is going to stop these people from getting guns and ammo. It's just not reality.

 

[M14 Shooter]

@ Julia Weber: FO

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What the left never understands is that bad people will get both guns and ammunition if they want them. You can't expect gun control legislation is going to stop these people from getting guns and ammo. It's just not reality.

True but leftism is not based on reality, it's based on fantasy.

If we could find a way to stop bad guys from getting guns, we would have done so with recreational narcotics already that's killing over 100K a year right now. They've been illegal my entire life and we have a worse problem today than we had 30 years ago.

 

[Independent thinker]

True but leftism is not based on reality, it's based on fantasy.

If we could find a way to stop bad guys from getting guns, we would have done so with recreational narcotics already that's killing over 100K a year right now. They've been illegal my entire life and we have a worse problem today than we had 30 years ago.

There is a way that most bad guys can be kept from obtaining guns and ammo - keep dangerous criminals locked up instead of sending them in and out of the ever revolving door ten or twenty times.

 

[JoeB131]

I swear, you are so demonic you can't even stop yourself from this compulsive lying problem of yours. Trump wrecked the economy is something an 8 year old can tell you you're full of shit on. You're like that guy at a formal party with his fly open exposing his underwear. Everybody is laughing at you but you have no clue as to why.

You go around parties looking at other dude's crotches?

Trump got voted out by 8 million votes... clearly a lot of people thought he wrecked the economy.

So how were you able to dig into your neighbors story Mrs Cravits? How do you know the police didn't take away the gun he used? You do realize that most of us gun owners have more than one firearm, don't you?

This guy didn't have enough money to buy gasoline for his car, much less buy a second gun.

I know you've never been in a gun store in your life, but let me tell you they are busy at times. They don't have time to be calling people about a customer. Even if they did, what makes the person they are calling legit? The gun store owner only sells guns, that's it. If it's approved by the government, that's all the gun owner needs to sell a firearm to anybody regardless what their opinion of them is. They are not responsible for what a person does with the product they sold them. Can you sue a car dealership because they sold a car to somebody that got drunk and hit you? Of course not, that would be stupid.

Cars aren't designed to kill people. Guns are. I was in a gun store once... when I used to be right wing, but really had no desire to buy a gun, even when I lived in Cicero, which was a shitty neighborhood. Then I realized it was probably a better idea to get the fuck out of Cicero and move to a nice neighborhood.

After 11 years in the Army, with an MOS of 76Y, the last thing I wanted to ever see again was a gun.

Back to gun stores... If you started holding them accountable to who they sell to, you'd be amazed how fast they'd develop a system to weed out the bad guys. The problem is, selling to the bad guys is their business model. That way you scare everyone else into wanting a gun, like I considered buying one when I lived in Cicero.

laws very frojm state to state. In Ohio, anybody selling tobacco products must have a sign on their door they do not sell tobacco to anybody under the age of 21, and must card every customer regardless of their obvious age.

That's nice. I'm betting it barely enforced, especially with regular customers.