Guns, Guns, Guns Everywhere.., But...,

[2aguy]

CPSO: Pastor shot, killed during church ceremony - KPLC 7 News, Lake Charles, Louisiana

i read about that this morning, and my first thought was, if only one member was carrying, would the incident turned out differently ?

Another "gun accident" in a "gun free" zone...

A look at the difference when a church allows people to stop mass shooters with guns...

Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia ( 6 dead, 4 wounded)

Charleston church shooting - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia ( 9 dead)
26 dead in shooting at church in Sutherland Springs, Texas (26 dead)

vs.

Deputies Osceola pastor shot church janitor in self-defense ( 0 dead)

6 Shot At New Life Church Gunman 2 Churchgoers Dead - 7NEWS Denver TheDenverChannel.com ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

Remember This SC Concealed Carrier Stops Mass Shooting During Church Service. No Casualties. ( 0 dead)
Psychiatrist v. patient with gun, in gun free zone

**********

No guns: 41 dead

Sikh temple ( 6 dead, 4 wounded)

Charleston ( 9 dead)

Texas church shooting (26 dead)



Parishioners with guns: 2 dead

Osceola ( 0 dead )

New life ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

South Carolina shotgun guy ( 0 dead)

Texas church...NRA instructor with AR-15 rifle saved 26 + lives

hospital shooting, Psychiatrist brought gun into gun free zone, ( 1 dead) stopped shooter.


Temple massacre has some Sikhs mulling gun ownership

The president of the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin had only a butter knife on hand, which he used to fight the gunman. He was killed, but his heroic actions were credited for slowing the shooter. Guns were not allowed in the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin.

“No guns [were] allowed in the temple,” Kulbir Singh, an attendee of the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin, told FoxNews.com. “Everyone knows that it’s not allowed, anywhere in the temple.”

 

[2aguy]

... guns are an inanimate object, a tool, no different than a hammer or saw, they too can cause great harm if not used properly.......

You said it yourself, "guns are an inanimate object, a tool, no different than a hammer or saw, they too can cause great harm if not used properly".

Within your own words lies the answer you seek. What are matches? Tools that "can cause great harm if not used properly"? Let's tell the truth here (for once) and carry your theme to its' logical conclusion. We want to be honest, right? It is solutions you (we) are after, correct?

So let's try again and be just a tiny bit more forthright this time:
Tools (including guns and matches) are inanimate objects, no different than a hammer or saw, they too can cause great harm ...... if not used properly or in the hands of the irresponsible.

Final note: From generations of statistics, experience and paternal/maternal concerns we do not allow children to have matches - and from the very same experience, statistics and concern we ought not to allow Americans to have guns.

And frome experience and statistics....you don't know what you are talking about.....

The anti-gun hypothesis and argument.....

More Guns = More Gun crime regardless of any other factors.

Actual Result:

In the U.S....as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years, gun murder down 49%, gun crime down 75%, violent crime down 72%

The result: Exact opposite of theory of anti-gunners....

In Science when you have a theory, when that theory is tested....and the exact opposite result happens...that means your theory is wrong. That is science....not left wing wishful thinking.


Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

As to mass public shootings and gun free zones....

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

 

[GLASNOST]

From generations of ....... experience, statistics and concern we ought not to allow Americans to have guns.

Europeans are indeed pathetic dumbed down serfs

1. Kindergarten shootings

2. Primary school shootings

3. Junior High shootings

4. High school shootings

5. College shootings

6. University shootings

7. Post Office shootings

8. Church shootings

9. Road Rage shootings

10. Drive-by shootings

11. Shopping Mall shootings

12. Shooting spouse instead of divorce

13. Shooting spouse to collect insurance money

14. Shooting spouse to get child custody


* All of them perpetrated by domestics (Americans murdering other Americans).

* How many of each of them have you had?

* We haven't had a single one of those in my country.

Who is "pathetic dumbed down"?

Teach your kids well

Yeah.

 

[2aguy]

yet, why do liberals hate them so much ?

guns are an inanimate object, a tool, no different than a hammer or saw, they too can cause great harm if not used properly.


so..., please, if there is just one liberal here on this forum who can read, write and speak intelligently, intellectually, logically, and sanely, PLEASE, tell us responsible gun owners who are defenders of our Constitutional rights whom you folks lovingly call, "nutters".., we are no more "nutters" than irrational liberals who fly off the handle and blame a gun for the stupidity of one or more persons.

one last thing libs, 98% of us gun owners do NOT own and most likely never will own an "ASSAULT RIFLE" do you know why ?

i will not tell you why now as i wish to read your replies first.., then i will explain why and what exactly an "Assault Rifle" is...., OK ??

see.., i did not insult or call anyone names, can you do the same ? thank you all for reading and replying to this post

regards,
WM

So guns are tools, just like a hammer or saw? The purpose of a hammer is to drive nails to join pieces of wood. The purpose of a saw is to cut materials. The purpose of a gun is to kill. A gun is a tool where the proper use results in death. You can't say the same about the proper use of a hammer, saw, or screwdriver.

No...the proper use of a gun is to save a life......Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop violent rapes, robberies and murders.....and they often do this without firing a shot......that number comes from the Centers for Disease Control.....

And as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years? Lives saved....

Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[2aguy]

From generations of ....... experience, statistics and concern we ought not to allow Americans to have guns.

Europeans are indeed pathetic dumbed down serfs

1. Kindergarten shootings

2. Primary school shootings

3. Junior High shootings

4. High school shootings

5. College shootings

6. University shootings

7. Post Office shootings

8. Church shootings

9. Road Rage shootings

10. Drive-by shootings

11. Shopping Mall shootings

12. Shooting spouse instead of divorce

13. Shooting spouse to collect insurance money

14. Shooting spouse to get child custody


* All of them perpetrated by domestics (Americans murdering other Americans).

* How many of each of them have you had?

* We haven't had a single one of those in my country.

Who is "pathetic dumbed down"?

Teach your kids well

Yeah.

View attachment 278092

What country are you in? Europe, is that your location.....where your governments allowed the murder of 12 million innocent men, women and children in socialist gas chambers and mass graves?

And which country are you in? Please...do tell.....

 

[bigrebnc1775]

From generations of ....... experience, statistics and concern we ought not to allow Americans to have guns.

Europeans are indeed pathetic dumbed down serfs

1. Kindergarten shootings

2. Primary school shootings

3. Junior High shootings

4. High school shootings

5. College shootings

6. University shootings

7. Post Office shootings

8. Church shootings

9. Road Rage shootings

10. Drive-by shootings

11. Shopping Mall shootings

12. Shooting spouse instead of divorce

13. Shooting spouse to collect insurance money

14. Shooting spouse to get child custody


* All of them perpetrated by domestics (Americans murdering other Americans).

* How many of each of them have you had?

* We haven't had a single one of those in my country.

Who is "pathetic dumbed down"?

Teach your kids well

Yeah.

View attachment 278092

caps lock was own not going back to rewrite the post
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING KILLED IN THOSE PLACES AND BE DISARMED AND NOT HAVE A GUN AND KILLED IN YOUR HOME BY HOME INVADERS?

 

[GLASNOST]

... guns are an inanimate object, a tool, no different than a hammer or saw, they too can cause great harm if not used properly.......

You said it yourself, "guns are an inanimate object, a tool, no different than a hammer or saw, they too can cause great harm if not used properly".

Within your own words lies the answer you seek. What are matches? Tools that "can cause great harm if not used properly"? Let's tell the truth here (for once) and carry your theme to its' logical conclusion. We want to be honest, right? It is solutions you (we) are after, correct?

So let's try again and be just a tiny bit more forthright this time:
Tools (including guns and matches) are inanimate objects, no different than a hammer or saw, they too can cause great harm ...... if not used properly or in the hands of the irresponsible.

Final note: From generations of statistics, experience and paternal/maternal concerns we do not allow children to have matches - and from the very same experience, statistics and concern we ought not to allow Americans to have guns.

And frome experience and statistics....you don't know what you are talking about.....

The anti-gun hypothesis and argument.....

More Guns = More Gun crime regardless of any other factors.

Actual Result:

In the U.S....as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years, gun murder down 49%, gun crime down 75%, violent crime down 72%

The result: Exact opposite of theory of anti-gunners....

In Science when you have a theory, when that theory is tested....and the exact opposite result happens...that means your theory is wrong. That is science....not left wing wishful thinking.


Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

As to mass public shootings and gun free zones....

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

You made quite a leap, didn't you.
Here are the most important and irrefutable statistics of all:
0 Guns = 0 Shootings.
0 Destitution amongst your population = 0 Shootings even if they have guns.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

... guns are an inanimate object, a tool, no different than a hammer or saw, they too can cause great harm if not used properly.......

You said it yourself, "guns are an inanimate object, a tool, no different than a hammer or saw, they too can cause great harm if not used properly".

Within your own words lies the answer you seek. What are matches? Tools that "can cause great harm if not used properly"? Let's tell the truth here (for once) and carry your theme to its' logical conclusion. We want to be honest, right? It is solutions you (we) are after, correct?

So let's try again and be just a tiny bit more forthright this time:
Tools (including guns and matches) are inanimate objects, no different than a hammer or saw, they too can cause great harm ...... if not used properly or in the hands of the irresponsible.

Final note: From generations of statistics, experience and paternal/maternal concerns we do not allow children to have matches - and from the very same experience, statistics and concern we ought not to allow Americans to have guns.

And frome experience and statistics....you don't know what you are talking about.....

The anti-gun hypothesis and argument.....

More Guns = More Gun crime regardless of any other factors.

Actual Result:

In the U.S....as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years, gun murder down 49%, gun crime down 75%, violent crime down 72%

The result: Exact opposite of theory of anti-gunners....

In Science when you have a theory, when that theory is tested....and the exact opposite result happens...that means your theory is wrong. That is science....not left wing wishful thinking.


Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

As to mass public shootings and gun free zones....

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

You made quite a leap, didn't you.
Here are the most important and irrefutable statistics of all:
0 Guns = 0 Shootings.
0 Destitution amongst your population = 0 Shootings even if they have guns.

ok, so what you are saying is that without guns there are ZERO MURDERS????????????

 

[2aguy]

... guns are an inanimate object, a tool, no different than a hammer or saw, they too can cause great harm if not used properly.......

You said it yourself, "guns are an inanimate object, a tool, no different than a hammer or saw, they too can cause great harm if not used properly".

Within your own words lies the answer you seek. What are matches? Tools that "can cause great harm if not used properly"? Let's tell the truth here (for once) and carry your theme to its' logical conclusion. We want to be honest, right? It is solutions you (we) are after, correct?

So let's try again and be just a tiny bit more forthright this time:
Tools (including guns and matches) are inanimate objects, no different than a hammer or saw, they too can cause great harm ...... if not used properly or in the hands of the irresponsible.

Final note: From generations of statistics, experience and paternal/maternal concerns we do not allow children to have matches - and from the very same experience, statistics and concern we ought not to allow Americans to have guns.

And frome experience and statistics....you don't know what you are talking about.....

The anti-gun hypothesis and argument.....

More Guns = More Gun crime regardless of any other factors.

Actual Result:

In the U.S....as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years, gun murder down 49%, gun crime down 75%, violent crime down 72%

The result: Exact opposite of theory of anti-gunners....

In Science when you have a theory, when that theory is tested....and the exact opposite result happens...that means your theory is wrong. That is science....not left wing wishful thinking.


Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

As to mass public shootings and gun free zones....

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

You made quite a leap, didn't you.
Here are the most important and irrefutable statistics of all:
0 Guns = 0 Shootings.
0 Destitution amongst your population = 0 Shootings even if they have guns.

You did not say what country you are from.......again....Europe murdered 12 million innocent, unarmed, men, women and children......that number dwarfs all of our deaths by criminals with guns.......mass murder by an out of control government...

Meanwhile, good Americans with guns use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to save lives...yes.....to save lives....from rape, robbery and murder.....lives saved from destruction because the victim was armed.

And Europe is being flooded with illegal guns.....you can't stop it...Sweden, of all places, is experiencing gun and grenade violence.....France, the weapon of choice for their criminals are illegal, fully automatic military weapons...

So don't preach about gun violence...your countries are about to experience and explosion in violence as your welfare states have finally reached the point where you can't raise young males into normal men...

 

[2aguy]

... guns are an inanimate object, a tool, no different than a hammer or saw, they too can cause great harm if not used properly.......

You said it yourself, "guns are an inanimate object, a tool, no different than a hammer or saw, they too can cause great harm if not used properly".

Within your own words lies the answer you seek. What are matches? Tools that "can cause great harm if not used properly"? Let's tell the truth here (for once) and carry your theme to its' logical conclusion. We want to be honest, right? It is solutions you (we) are after, correct?

So let's try again and be just a tiny bit more forthright this time:
Tools (including guns and matches) are inanimate objects, no different than a hammer or saw, they too can cause great harm ...... if not used properly or in the hands of the irresponsible.

Final note: From generations of statistics, experience and paternal/maternal concerns we do not allow children to have matches - and from the very same experience, statistics and concern we ought not to allow Americans to have guns.

And frome experience and statistics....you don't know what you are talking about.....

The anti-gun hypothesis and argument.....

More Guns = More Gun crime regardless of any other factors.

Actual Result:

In the U.S....as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years, gun murder down 49%, gun crime down 75%, violent crime down 72%

The result: Exact opposite of theory of anti-gunners....

In Science when you have a theory, when that theory is tested....and the exact opposite result happens...that means your theory is wrong. That is science....not left wing wishful thinking.


Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

As to mass public shootings and gun free zones....

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

You made quite a leap, didn't you.
Here are the most important and irrefutable statistics of all:
0 Guns = 0 Shootings.
0 Destitution amongst your population = 0 Shootings even if they have guns.

They had gun control in Europe prior to World War 2.......during the war, you murdered 12 million unarmed men, women and children...no guns = mass murder.....

 

[2aguy]

... guns are an inanimate object, a tool, no different than a hammer or saw, they too can cause great harm if not used properly.......

You said it yourself, "guns are an inanimate object, a tool, no different than a hammer or saw, they too can cause great harm if not used properly".

Within your own words lies the answer you seek. What are matches? Tools that "can cause great harm if not used properly"? Let's tell the truth here (for once) and carry your theme to its' logical conclusion. We want to be honest, right? It is solutions you (we) are after, correct?

So let's try again and be just a tiny bit more forthright this time:
Tools (including guns and matches) are inanimate objects, no different than a hammer or saw, they too can cause great harm ...... if not used properly or in the hands of the irresponsible.

Final note: From generations of statistics, experience and paternal/maternal concerns we do not allow children to have matches - and from the very same experience, statistics and concern we ought not to allow Americans to have guns.

And frome experience and statistics....you don't know what you are talking about.....

The anti-gun hypothesis and argument.....

More Guns = More Gun crime regardless of any other factors.

Actual Result:

In the U.S....as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years, gun murder down 49%, gun crime down 75%, violent crime down 72%

The result: Exact opposite of theory of anti-gunners....

In Science when you have a theory, when that theory is tested....and the exact opposite result happens...that means your theory is wrong. That is science....not left wing wishful thinking.


Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

As to mass public shootings and gun free zones....

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

You made quite a leap, didn't you.
Here are the most important and irrefutable statistics of all:
0 Guns = 0 Shootings.
0 Destitution amongst your population = 0 Shootings even if they have guns.

What country do you live in? If you don't tell us, we can't look up and verify what you say........

 

[2aguy]

Hmmmm....Glasnost hasn't responded.....does anyone know what country he/she is in?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Hmmmm....Glasnost hasn't responded.....does anyone know what country he/she is in?

I stumped him/ her on my response to their post.

 

[GLASNOST]

What country are you in? Europe, is that your location.....where your governments allowed the murder of 12 million innocent men, women and children in socialist gas chambers and mass graves?

And which country are you in? Please...do tell.....

It is astounding how disinformed Americans are with 100% propaganda and the few facts you are fed are spun and exaggerated. But you asked me a straight forward question and it deserves a straight forward answer.

My government did not "allow the murder of 12 million innocent men, women and children gas chambers and mass graves". You have been lied to ..... again. And again. And again.

1. My government snatched approximately 16,000 (yes, sixteen-thousand) people from extermination camps and from transport to those camps in Germany and Poland and Hungary. We gave them a home and spontaneous nationality in my country.

2. Approximately 72,000 (yes, seventy-two-thousand) Finnish children were brought to my country for safety between 1939 and 1945. Most of those who became orphaned stayed here after the war.

3. About 1,000 Jews from Norway were smuggled into my country when the Nazis invaded and occupied that country. The total was about half of the Jewish population of Norway.

4. In 1943 nearly all of the Jews of Denmark (about 8,000) were smuggled to my country.

NOTE: You don't know shit and still you are shooting your own people to death at an average of 100 each day. Take your guns and shove them right up your ass.

 

[2aguy]

What country are you in? Europe, is that your location.....where your governments allowed the murder of 12 million innocent men, women and children in socialist gas chambers and mass graves?

And which country are you in? Please...do tell.....

It is astounding how disinformed Americans are with 100% propaganda and the few facts you are fed are spun and exaggerated. But you asked me a straight forward question and it deserves a straight forward answer.

My government did not "allow the murder of 12 million innocent men, women and children gas chambers and mass graves". You have been lied to ..... again. And again. And again.

1. My government snatched approximately 16,000 (yes, sixteen-thousand) people from extermination camps and from transport to those camps in Germany and Poland and Hungary. We gave them a home and spontaneous nationality in my country.

2. Approximately 72,000 (yes, seventy-two-thousand) Finnish children were brought to my country for safety between 1939 and 1945. Most of those who became orphaned stayed here after the war.

3. About 1,000 Jews from Norway were smuggled into my country when the Nazis invaded and occupied that country. The total was about half of the Jewish population of Norway.

4. In 1943 nearly all of the Jews of Denmark (about 8,000) were smuggled to my country.

NOTE: You don't know shit and still you are shooting your own people to death at an average of 100 each day. Take your guns and shove them right up your ass.

Again....what country is that?

 

[2aguy]

What country are you in? Europe, is that your location.....where your governments allowed the murder of 12 million innocent men, women and children in socialist gas chambers and mass graves?

And which country are you in? Please...do tell.....

It is astounding how disinformed Americans are with 100% propaganda and the few facts you are fed are spun and exaggerated. But you asked me a straight forward question and it deserves a straight forward answer.

My government did not "allow the murder of 12 million innocent men, women and children gas chambers and mass graves". You have been lied to ..... again. And again. And again.

1. My government snatched approximately 16,000 (yes, sixteen-thousand) people from extermination camps and from transport to those camps in Germany and Poland and Hungary. We gave them a home and spontaneous nationality in my country.

2. Approximately 72,000 (yes, seventy-two-thousand) Finnish children were brought to my country for safety between 1939 and 1945. Most of those who became orphaned stayed here after the war.

3. About 1,000 Jews from Norway were smuggled into my country when the Nazis invaded and occupied that country. The total was about half of the Jewish population of Norway.

4. In 1943 nearly all of the Jews of Denmark (about 8,000) were smuggled to my country.

NOTE: You don't know shit and still you are shooting your own people to death at an average of 100 each day. Take your guns and shove them right up your ass.

No, moron.....the people getting shot are criminals.....involved in criminal activity in democrat party controlled voting districts....

Again, you don't know shit.....Americans use their legal guns to save lives....according to our Centers For Disease Control they do this on average 1.1 million times a year......rapes, robberies and murders that do not happen because our people can stop it with a gun.......

 

[2aguy]

What country are you in? Europe, is that your location.....where your governments allowed the murder of 12 million innocent men, women and children in socialist gas chambers and mass graves?

And which country are you in? Please...do tell.....

It is astounding how disinformed Americans are with 100% propaganda and the few facts you are fed are spun and exaggerated. But you asked me a straight forward question and it deserves a straight forward answer.

My government did not "allow the murder of 12 million innocent men, women and children gas chambers and mass graves". You have been lied to ..... again. And again. And again.

1. My government snatched approximately 16,000 (yes, sixteen-thousand) people from extermination camps and from transport to those camps in Germany and Poland and Hungary. We gave them a home and spontaneous nationality in my country.

2. Approximately 72,000 (yes, seventy-two-thousand) Finnish children were brought to my country for safety between 1939 and 1945. Most of those who became orphaned stayed here after the war.

3. About 1,000 Jews from Norway were smuggled into my country when the Nazis invaded and occupied that country. The total was about half of the Jewish population of Norway.

4. In 1943 nearly all of the Jews of Denmark (about 8,000) were smuggled to my country.

NOTE: You don't know shit and still you are shooting your own people to death at an average of 100 each day. Take your guns and shove them right up your ass.

And, genius....had Americans with guns not crossed the ocean to save your asses....how long would those people in your country have been safe from the death camps? Again...what country are you in?

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

From generations of ....... experience, statistics and concern we ought not to allow Americans to have guns.

Europeans are indeed pathetic dumbed down serfs

1. Kindergarten shootings

2. Primary school shootings

3. Junior High shootings

4. High school shootings

5. College shootings

6. University shootings

7. Post Office shootings

8. Church shootings

9. Road Rage shootings

10. Drive-by shootings

11. Shopping Mall shootings

12. Shooting spouse instead of divorce

13. Shooting spouse to collect insurance money

14. Shooting spouse to get child custody


* All of them perpetrated by domestics (Americans murdering other Americans).

* How many of each of them have you had?

* We haven't had a single one of those in my country.

Who is "pathetic dumbed down"?

Teach your kids well

Yeah.

View attachment 278092

Western EuroTrash peons
What collapsing " pan Euro African " loser country would that be ?
One where the Islamic savages gang rape your daughters for sport ? and then laugh as the judge gives em a slap on the wrist ?..or laugh harder when everyone's to scared to be called a xenophobe full of hate ?

"Extra eater "to young to work being aborted by caring socialists

 

[2aguy]

From generations of ....... experience, statistics and concern we ought not to allow Americans to have guns.

Europeans are indeed pathetic dumbed down serfs

1. Kindergarten shootings

2. Primary school shootings

3. Junior High shootings

4. High school shootings

5. College shootings

6. University shootings

7. Post Office shootings

8. Church shootings

9. Road Rage shootings

10. Drive-by shootings

11. Shopping Mall shootings

12. Shooting spouse instead of divorce

13. Shooting spouse to collect insurance money

14. Shooting spouse to get child custody


* All of them perpetrated by domestics (Americans murdering other Americans).

* How many of each of them have you had?

* We haven't had a single one of those in my country.

Who is "pathetic dumbed down"?

Teach your kids well

Yeah.

View attachment 278092

Western EuroTrash peons
What collapsing " pan Euro African " loser country would that be ?
One where the Islamic savages gang rape your daughters for sport ? and then laugh as the judge gives em a slap on the wrist ?..or laugh harder when everyone's to scared to be called a xenophobe full of hate ?

View attachment 278093


"Extra eater "to young to work being aborted by caring socialists

I notice that glasnost hasn't stated which country they live in....

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

From generations of ....... experience, statistics and concern we ought not to allow Americans to have guns.

Europeans are indeed pathetic dumbed down serfs

1. Kindergarten shootings

2. Primary school shootings

3. Junior High shootings

4. High school shootings

5. College shootings

6. University shootings

7. Post Office shootings

8. Church shootings

9. Road Rage shootings

10. Drive-by shootings

11. Shopping Mall shootings

12. Shooting spouse instead of divorce

13. Shooting spouse to collect insurance money

14. Shooting spouse to get child custody


* All of them perpetrated by domestics (Americans murdering other Americans).

* How many of each of them have you had?

* We haven't had a single one of those in my country.

Who is "pathetic dumbed down"?

Teach your kids well

Yeah.

View attachment 278092

Western EuroTrash peons
What collapsing " pan Euro African " loser country would that be ?
One where the Islamic savages gang rape your daughters for sport ? and then laugh as the judge gives em a slap on the wrist ?..or laugh harder when everyone's to scared to be called a xenophobe full of hate ?

View attachment 278093


"Extra eater "to young to work being aborted by caring socialists

I notice that glasnost hasn't stated which country they live in....

Look like hes some kind of Scandinavian
I was guessing hes Vichy or some kind of frog Belgian / waffle wallon