Habits of the "rich", habits of the "poor"

[Not2BSubjugated]

You might not recognize the opportunities you have because they just came naturally to you. Were you born poor? Were you parents and grandparents poor? If you weren't, then you had opportunities that you were born into.

For a large majority of poor people, no amount of hard work will ever lift them above their stations, because whether you admit it or not, America is not a country of equal opportunities.

While I know I've worked hard my entire life, since I turned 18, I'm not naive enough to thing that it was just my hard work that got me here, it wasn't. A lot was luck and opportunity.

I don't think anybody's trying to say that hard work is the only factor in success. That would be seriously foolish.

I still don't understand why you insist on marginalizing it, though. While not the only factor, it is -a- factor, yes?

Successful habits -do- create a better outcome than not, yes?

Why yes they (successful habits) do create a better outcome.

Now, what part does opportunity play? Your turn.

I've already conceded several times in this very thread that opportunity plays a role.

The size of the role depends on what you're including in the scope of opportunity.

Are we including physical and intellectual capacity? Probability of being exposed to philosophies and lifestyles conducive to success? Probability of being psychologically instilled by your upbringing and the random events of your formative years to have the desire to research these things? I don't think there's many people in this country without library or internet access, so does that count as opportunity to learn this shit? Or do we only count it as opportunity if they were born into cultures that breed the desire to learn and excel intellectually? If so, when can we start having a discussion about which factions of our culture are defective, in this regard?

If you only mean economic advantages throughout schooling age and financial inheritance, then opportunity ain't nearly as all-encompassing as you make it out to be, that's for God damn sure.

At any rate, the fact that economic advantages also affect one's outcomes is retarded obvious. I'm still not understanding why I have to acknowledge this to make the assertion that motivated habits positively affect outcomes.

Why do you demand that I go out of my way to make sure that everyone understands that I'm not implying that all poor people are lazy? Why is it that you automatically snap to that assumption and turn defensive?

How overly sensitive is our culture in general?

 

[Skull Pilot]

You had opportunities most poor people don't have, that's how.

Keep up with the "poor people are lazy" meme though. That should really help the GOP.

And what opportunities are those?

I had the opportunity to put myself through school while working a full time job. I didn't get financial aid and I paid off my student loans

You mean I had the opportunity to work a full time night job and a full time day job for 15 years to save enough to start my business?

Gee I guess that was just handed to me on a silver platter

And please find the post where I said anyone was lazy.

You might not recognize the opportunities you have because they just came naturally to you. Were you born poor? Were you parents and grandparents poor? If you weren't, then you had opportunities that you were born into.

My grandfather worked in a machine shop his whole life. My father was killed when I was 2. My mother was a manic depressive psycho who really didn't give a shit if I had clean clothes or something to eat.

For a large majority of poor people, no amount of hard work will ever lift them above their stations, because whether you admit it or not, America is not a country of equal opportunities.

Opportunities happen when people look for them. if you wait for it to come along then you'll never get anywhere.

While I know I've worked hard my entire life, since I turned 18, I'm not naive enough to thing that it was just my hard work that got me here, it wasn't. A lot was luck and opportunity.

So all those people out there are just unlucky?

Got it.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

This whole thread's like. . .

"I think women with brunette hair are pretty."

"Why do you detest blondes?!"

I'd laugh if the desire for righteous indignation weren't so pathetically needy. I can't decide if what I'm feeling is pity or contempt. Maybe it's both. Maybe they're the same thing.

 

[Brain357]

And what opportunities are those?

I had the opportunity to put myself through school while working a full time job. I didn't get financial aid and I paid off my student loans

You mean I had the opportunity to work a full time night job and a full time day job for 15 years to save enough to start my business?

Gee I guess that was just handed to me on a silver platter

And please find the post where I said anyone was lazy.

You might not recognize the opportunities you have because they just came naturally to you. Were you born poor? Were you parents and grandparents poor? If you weren't, then you had opportunities that you were born into.

For a large majority of poor people, no amount of hard work will ever lift them above their stations, because whether you admit it or not, America is not a country of equal opportunities.

While I know I've worked hard my entire life, since I turned 18, I'm not naive enough to thing that it was just my hard work that got me here, it wasn't. A lot was luck and opportunity.

I don't think anybody's trying to say that hard work is the only factor in success. That would be seriously foolish.

I still don't understand why you insist on marginalizing it, though. While not the only factor, it is -a- factor, yes?

Successful habits -do- create a better outcome than not, yes?

If you really want to be successful you need to be good at kissing butt. That means picking the right butt to kiss and doing a good job of it.

You also need to be really good at stabbing the back of the person ahead of you.

All this habit talk doesn't do very much for you if anything.

 

[Seawytch]

And what opportunities are those?

I had the opportunity to put myself through school while working a full time job. I didn't get financial aid and I paid off my student loans

You mean I had the opportunity to work a full time night job and a full time day job for 15 years to save enough to start my business?

Gee I guess that was just handed to me on a silver platter

And please find the post where I said anyone was lazy.

You might not recognize the opportunities you have because they just came naturally to you. Were you born poor? Were you parents and grandparents poor? If you weren't, then you had opportunities that you were born into.

My grandfather worked in a machine shop his whole life. My father was killed when I was 2. My mother was a manic depressive psycho who really didn't give a shit if I had clean clothes or something to eat.

For a large majority of poor people, no amount of hard work will ever lift them above their stations, because whether you admit it or not, America is not a country of equal opportunities.

Opportunities happen when people look for them. if you wait for it to come along then you'll never get anywhere.

While I know I've worked hard my entire life, since I turned 18, I'm not naive enough to thing that it was just my hard work that got me here, it wasn't. A lot was luck and opportunity.

So all those people out there are just unlucky?

Got it.

That's not what I said, but I understand your need to break things down to something simple you can understand. Sorry, the world is more complex.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Bottom line to anyone who read this list of habits and got defensive.

Anyone who believes that the only way for them to be successful is if society reworks its rules to hand them the economic tools they believe that they need to get ahead has already conceded defeat. They've conceded that they cannot overcome the limits of their immediate circumstances.

Human beings are a predator species. Incisors, eyes in the front of our head, brains so complex that only proteins could effectively power them. . . nature has geared us out with predatory instincts. As a predator, the only healthy mindset in any situation is the attitude that you will find a way to excel within and benefit from that situation's parameters. Conceding defeat to those parameters and wishing the situation were different is nothing short of a psychological malfunction, and precisely the sort of psychological malfunction that will stunt your advancement.

You wanna argue that there's a system other than ours that would be more conducive to everyone getting ahead, fine, I'll grant that you might be right.

You wanna imply that any of "the poor" should concede to defeat and just wish for a new set of rules and I won't grant that you're pushing anything but psychological illness.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

You might not recognize the opportunities you have because they just came naturally to you. Were you born poor? Were you parents and grandparents poor? If you weren't, then you had opportunities that you were born into.

For a large majority of poor people, no amount of hard work will ever lift them above their stations, because whether you admit it or not, America is not a country of equal opportunities.

While I know I've worked hard my entire life, since I turned 18, I'm not naive enough to thing that it was just my hard work that got me here, it wasn't. A lot was luck and opportunity.

I don't think anybody's trying to say that hard work is the only factor in success. That would be seriously foolish.

I still don't understand why you insist on marginalizing it, though. While not the only factor, it is -a- factor, yes?

Successful habits -do- create a better outcome than not, yes?

If you really want to be successful you need to be good at kissing butt. That means picking the right butt to kiss and doing a good job of it.

You also need to be really good at stabbing the back of the person ahead of you.

All this habit talk doesn't do very much for you if anything.

So that really -is- your argument, then? Every time I've suggested this, it's been ironically. People really think this way?

The only way to get ahead is to be an ass kisser or to fuck someone over? Healthy motivational habits and personal effort do -nothing-?

How do you go on living if your outlook on life's potential is so bleak? Were you born into wealth or have you simply settled for misery?

 

[Darkwind]

Walmart ran those out of town.

Nothing to say about how CEO's are being paid what they deserve because they do such a great job?

I don't care what they get paid. Their contracts are a private matter between them and the company If you don't like the way a company runs then feel free not to buy their stock or patronize them.

Sure the ceo's get paid millions to do a crappy job while the workers get hosed and you don't care. $55 million to retire for this guy, but pensions are bad right?

1 What does this have to do with forming good habits that help a person succeed?

2. Since a VAST majority of business in America is small business without a CEO, your focus on this one job description is unfathomable.

3. If they did a crappy job, they get fired. I guess they are not doing crappy jobs.

4. What workers are getting hosed? I keep hearing this, but its never proven.

5. Why are you talking about anything but what the OP started?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Learned helplessness

 

[Darkwind]

You might not recognize the opportunities you have because they just came naturally to you. Were you born poor? Were you parents and grandparents poor? If you weren't, then you had opportunities that you were born into.

For a large majority of poor people, no amount of hard work will ever lift them above their stations, because whether you admit it or not, America is not a country of equal opportunities.

While I know I've worked hard my entire life, since I turned 18, I'm not naive enough to thing that it was just my hard work that got me here, it wasn't. A lot was luck and opportunity.

I don't think anybody's trying to say that hard work is the only factor in success. That would be seriously foolish.

I still don't understand why you insist on marginalizing it, though. While not the only factor, it is -a- factor, yes?

Successful habits -do- create a better outcome than not, yes?

If you really want to be successful you need to be good at kissing butt. That means picking the right butt to kiss and doing a good job of it.

You also need to be really good at stabbing the back of the person ahead of you.

All this habit talk doesn't do very much for you if anything.

This is why you will never be successful.

yes, I know. you already claim to be....Given your outlook on life and business, along with personal commitment, I'd say your perception of success is wrong.

 

[Brain357]

I don't think anybody's trying to say that hard work is the only factor in success. That would be seriously foolish.

I still don't understand why you insist on marginalizing it, though. While not the only factor, it is -a- factor, yes?

Successful habits -do- create a better outcome than not, yes?

If you really want to be successful you need to be good at kissing butt. That means picking the right butt to kiss and doing a good job of it.

You also need to be really good at stabbing the back of the person ahead of you.

All this habit talk doesn't do very much for you if anything.

This is why you will never be successful.

yes, I know. you already claim to be....Given your outlook on life and business, along with personal commitment, I'd say your perception of success is wrong.

And I'd say your in a fantasy land. This is just how it is in the real world. If somebody in business tells you differently they are lying.

 

[Brain357]

I don't think anybody's trying to say that hard work is the only factor in success. That would be seriously foolish.

I still don't understand why you insist on marginalizing it, though. While not the only factor, it is -a- factor, yes?

Successful habits -do- create a better outcome than not, yes?

If you really want to be successful you need to be good at kissing butt. That means picking the right butt to kiss and doing a good job of it.

You also need to be really good at stabbing the back of the person ahead of you.

All this habit talk doesn't do very much for you if anything.

So that really -is- your argument, then? Every time I've suggested this, it's been ironically. People really think this way?

The only way to get ahead is to be an ass kisser or to fuck someone over? Healthy motivational habits and personal effort do -nothing-?

How do you go on living if your outlook on life's potential is so bleak? Were you born into wealth or have you simply settled for misery?

Why is it so bleak? It's just reality. Many of the successful people the right worship are masters of these things. Sorry but your habits don't get people far.

 

[nodoginnafight]

.

They just refuse to promote the value of hard work, sacrifice, self discipline, extra effort.

When's the last time you saw a passionate defense of those characteristics from the Left?

Especially as compared to all the spin and denial.

They've made my point FOR me.

.

Who said:

“The best way to not feel hopeless is to get up and do something.”

“The instruments with which we meet them may be new. But those values upon which our success depends - honesty and hard work, courage and fair play, tolerance and curiosity, loyalty and patriotism - these things are old. These things are true.”

“There is no excuse for not trying.”

“We have the chance to get an education, and work hard, and give our children a better life.”

Couldn't tell you, but since you ask I'll assume it was a liberal. Perhaps Obama. Since liberals so rarely say things like that I can't place it.

I think this post is #146 in this thread. Look back. How many liberals have extolled the virtues of hard work, sacrifice, extra effort?

Hint: You won't even need one hand to count 'em.

.

I think your mistake is assuming that these boards represent a true cross section of Americans.

(You are correct - it was Obama.)

I think attaching a label and then assuming you know something about whatever has been labeled is just self deception. But it doesn't take nearly as much effort as it does to talk TO people, not AT people, and to really listen to what someone is saying rather than just assume you disagree before they open their mouth.

 

[Mac1958]

I think attaching a label and then assuming you know something about whatever has been labeled is just self deception. But it doesn't take nearly as much effort as it does to talk TO people, not AT people, and to really listen to what someone is saying rather than just assume you disagree before they open their mouth.

It was an easy call.

When I posted this thread, I knew damn well that the hardcore lefties would do everything they could to deny and discredit it. How did I know that? Because (a) I read their posts on this topic regularly and (b) partisan ideologues are nothing if not consistent.

And guess what? They didn't let me down. Getting them to admit that hard work, sacrifice and self-discipline can lead to success is hilariously difficult. Consistently.

And regarding talking TO people, and not AT people, applies to EVERYONE here, yes?

.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I think attaching a label and then assuming you know something about whatever has been labeled is just self deception. But it doesn't take nearly as much effort as it does to talk TO people, not AT people, and to really listen to what someone is saying rather than just assume you disagree before they open their mouth.

It was an easy call.

When I posted this thread, I knew damn well that the hardcore lefties would do everything they could to deny and discredit it. How did I know that? Because (a) I read their posts on this topic regularly and (b) partisan ideologues are nothing if not consistent.

And guess what? They didn't let me down. Getting them to admit that hard work, sacrifice and self-discipline can lead to success is hilariously difficult. Consistently.

And regarding talking TO people, and not AT people, applies to EVERYONE here, yes?

.

Absolutely it applies to everyone. Agree 200%!
But don't you sometimes "get" what you expect to get - confirmation bias?
Or maybe I should say that we often "hear" what we expect to hear?

That being said, yes, there are hyper-partisans on these boards who are so consistent in their denial of the obvious as they grind their political axes, that we could both probably write their posts for them before they do. But that's not the real world.

In the real world, folks from all over the political spectrum appreciate the benefits of hard work and then there are folks from all over the political spectrum that are just too lazy to make the effort and are all to quick to blame their failures on "the system."

 

[Mac1958]

 

[Silhouette]

.

I'm told regularly that "the rich" just got lucky and didn't deserve that and stole that from someone and didn't earn that and didn't build that 'n stuff, but to no surprise, they're also just trying harder.

Percentage of people who wake up at least 3 hours before work:
Rich: 44%
Poor: 3%

Percentage of people who are focused on accomplishing some single goal:
Rich: 80%
Poor: 12%

Percentage of people who write down their goals:
Rich: 67%
Poor: 17%

Percentage of people who maintain a To Do list:
Rich: 81%
Poor: 19%

Percentage of people who network five or more hours each month:
Rich: 79%
Poor: 16%

And my personal favorite:

Percentage of people who read at least 30 minutes or more daily for education or career reasons:
Rich: 88%
Poor: 2%

But I'm sure that's all just coincidence.



Source: Rich Habits, The Daily Success Habits of Wealthy Individuals. Thomas Corley, 2010.
Rich Habits - The Daily Success Habits of Wealthy Individuals: Thomas C. Corley: 9781934938935: Amazon.com: Books

.

It's amazing the positive outlook you can have when you know there is ample cash at your fingertips. And if you had to work to get to it when you were younger [many rich people are born that way and never know true struggle], you always knew in the back of your mind that your wealthy family was there to get your back.

I like that old movie "Trading Places" with Eddie Murphy and Dan Ackroyd. Dan's rich benefactor uncles utterly turn their back on him and cut him off one day as a social experiment. They instead get a street urchin [Murphy] and let him roll with the dough.

The premise is to show that opportunity or lack thereof does not make the man. It's easy to speculate what you would do in a poor man's shoes with no family to get his back when times are tough. It's quite another thing to actually walk in those shoes.

Depression and perceived hopelessness makes you tired. You lose ambition because even lab rats won't keep going back to a buzzer that doesn't dispense feed and has no hopes of ever dispensing feed no matter how hard they work it. The poor see this locked-up system and they lose hope, like any lab rat would. So your little numbers there pal may just be reflecting a lack of hope instead of a lack of raw material.

In the end, the street urchin winds up being a very profitable man given the opportunity [and more importantly the hope and ease of a safety net]. He turns out to be quite a businessman. And Ackroyd's character also learns some valuable lessons on the street. Both men are improved in the end.

Maybe we could have an exchange program where the rich get to live as the poor and vice versa for a couple of weeks each year? That might change politics a little bit..

 

[Avatar4321]

We should compile more habits of successful and wealthy people.

 

[Pheonixops]

Those things are what it takes? Getting up 3 hours before work? Sorry I don't waste my whole morning sitting around, I get to work. I don't waste time networking on Facebook either.

I wake up at 4:45am Mon-Fri, take my dog for a run for an hour, come back and start the coffee, lay back down with my wife for 10 minutes, get up make coffee, S,S, & S, check on the news, and we head off for work. I start @ 8am. In my opinion, it's a great way to start the day and I am wide awake and sharp hours before I start working.

You sound like a real go getter.

Thanks, I just like that routine so I can get my work done early, play/teach tennis for a couple of hours, do any more work that comes in, train dogs, and have time with my wife. On the weekends I get up @ 5:45, train dogs and play/teach tennis as well.

I'm not judging anyone who wakes up later to get their day started; different strokes for different folks.

 

[Pheonixops]

Based on the question we have no idea what these people are doing. Tell me how that is wrong.

It's not wrong to assume that all rich people aren't exercising successful habits, and it's not wrong to assume that all poor people aren't lazy. It's logical.

I'm simply saying it's stupid for you to assume that the habits and lifestyles of the motivated don't factor into success. You're implying that it's all based on luck, and that assumption is -holy shit- stupid. I don't gotta see stats to know that, I've seen plenty of real life evidence that tells me otherwise, including the difference in results that I've had -personally- when I have or haven't exercised these same sorts of successful habits.

Try getting motivated sometime and see if it doesn't make your entire life better.

My life is fine, I have plenty of motivation.

I think it's stupid to act like all poor people have to do is act like rich people and they will be successful. It's quite a bit more difficult than that depending on how little they have inherited.

How come you think that way? I'm not 'challenging' you, I am just curious. How about if we took the 'rich people' out of the equation and replaced it with 'successful people' , don't you think that certain habits and attributes that successful people have used to achieve their goals is worth reflecting on if a person wants to be successful in their own right? There are plenty of 'rags to riches' people out there. There's always HOPE out of a bad or less than great situation, if a person is willing to CHANGE their current course of action.