Happy Birthday, Jefferson Davis

[Kevin_Kennedy]

He believed in peace except for that whole Civil War thing.

He believed in free trade -- of slaves.

And he believed in the American idea of self-government, except for "those" African descendants.

Fuck his filthy memory.

A war started by Lincoln.

Yes, he practiced slavery, which really has little to do with one's position on free trade.

Yes, he believed in the America idea of self-government. Thomas Jefferson did as well, and I have heard rumors that he might have been a slaveowner as well.

I doubt you say fuck the "filthy" memory of the slave-owning colonists who seceded from the British Empire.

Because LINCOLN fired on Ft. Sumter.

Of course.

If that's what I thought then yes, I'd be . Fortunately for me, it's not.

 

[hortysir]

I really don't understand this obsession southerners have with trying to claim there was some noble cause by the Civil War. Southerners were afraid Lincoln and the Republicans in Congress were going to end slavery, so they took up arms to protect their "right" to own other human beings like sacks of potatoes. Instead of acknowledging this fact, you try to claim Lincoln was secretly pro-slavery because he didn't say "Yeah, let's go ahead and let these rebels win by giving them a big chunk of additional territory".

So THAT"S why Lincoln drafted an Article to the Constitution that would have PERMANENTLY left the decision of slavery up to the states!

Thing is, only his home state of Illinois ratified it before war broke out.

Lincoln cared only about preserving the Union and keeping control of ALL the states and their resources.

People accuse Boooosh of only being "about the oil".
Lincoln was about the tobacco, cotton, citrus, etc.....

My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it;

Abraham Lincoln's Letter to Horace Greeley


btw, that quote is etched in marble inside the Lincoln Memorial

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

This thread stands as evidence that our public schools are failing to educate our children.

Revisionist history as well as judging the actions of people in history using the lense of modern times is not educating.

In fact, that is really close to brainwashing, if it hasn't crossed that line.......

You may rest assured that my 8th grade history teacher taught me nothing that I've said in this thread.

 

[hortysir]

Jefferson Davis was born June 3, 1808, and he was the first and only President of the Confederate States of America. He believed in peace, free trade, and the American idea of self-government.

"All we ask is to be let alone." - Jefferson Davis

Oh, and happy birthday, JD


We were returning from DC by way of MO, on the interstate, and saw one of those brown 'historical site' signs.
It was for the Jefferson Davis Monument.
I couldn't get over in time so we took the next exit and turned around. Funny thing is, driving North there was no sign but we exited anyway, and after crossing the overpass back&forth we found the small little directional sign.
After about 15 minutes of winding, hilly roads we saw it before we were any where near it!!
It was HUGE! And bore an uncanny resemblance to another 1st President

 

[slackjawed]

This thread stands as evidence that our public schools are failing to educate our children.

Revisionist history as well as judging the actions of people in history using the lense of modern times is not educating.

In fact, that is really close to brainwashing, if it hasn't crossed that line.......

You may rest assured that my 8th grade history teacher taught me nothing that I've said in this thread.

lol

 

[Katzndogz]

A war started by Lincoln.

Yes, he practiced slavery, which really has little to do with one's position on free trade.

Yes, he believed in the America idea of self-government. Thomas Jefferson did as well, and I have heard rumors that he might have been a slaveowner as well.

I doubt you say fuck the "filthy" memory of the slave-owning colonists who seceded from the British Empire.

Because LINCOLN fired on Ft. Sumter.

Of course.

What is the differences between the Confederacy and al qaeda, seeing that both declared war on the United States?

The Confederacy didn't want to do anything more than leave.

 

[Liability]

A war started by Lincoln.

Yes, he practiced slavery, which really has little to do with one's position on free trade.

Yes, he believed in the America idea of self-government. Thomas Jefferson did as well, and I have heard rumors that he might have been a slaveowner as well.

I doubt you say fuck the "filthy" memory of the slave-owning colonists who seceded from the British Empire.

Because LINCOLN fired on Ft. Sumter.

Of course.

If that's what I thought then yes, I'd be . Fortunately for me, it's not.

Well unfortunately for you, it's pretty much what you had SAID. But the firing on Ft. Sumter IS what started the Civil War.

So, while I appreciate your immediate withdrawal from that absurd claim you had made, you are still stuck looking quite silly.

 

[elvis]

Because LINCOLN fired on Ft. Sumter.

Of course.

If that's what I thought then yes, I'd be . Fortunately for me, it's not.

Well unfortunately for you, it's pretty much what you had SAID. But the firing on Ft. Sumter IS what started the Civil War.

So, while I appreciate your immediate withdrawal from that absurd claim you had made, you are still stuck looking quite silly.

He always looks silly.

 

[elvis]

A war started by Lincoln.

Yes, he practiced slavery, which really has little to do with one's position on free trade.

Yes, he believed in the America idea of self-government. Thomas Jefferson did as well, and I have heard rumors that he might have been a slaveowner as well.

I doubt you say fuck the "filthy" memory of the slave-owning colonists who seceded from the British Empire.

Because LINCOLN fired on Ft. Sumter.

Of course.

What is the differences between the Confederacy and al qaeda, seeing that both declared war on the United States?

Confederacy came a lot closer to destroying America.

 

[slackjawed]

If you believe republicans are evil people, then you will believe that lincoln is like modern day republicans and is therefore evil.

I know that the firing on ft sumpter started the conflict that was the civil war, but that was just the last straw in a long political battle that started much earlier. Some say it started at the birth of our nation. By the time ft sumpter was fired on, the confederacy already existed. Several elected officials and army officers had already left thier posts to be part of the confederacy. J. Davis was a US senator prior to being president of the confederacy.

If Lincoln had wanted to start a war, he could have used just that fact to promote a war. It was an organized rebellion. He didn't. He issued plea after plea for reunification. The confederacy on the other hand issued an order for federal troops to abandon their posts at ft sumpter, Lincoln defied that order knowing that if they fired on that fort he would have public support for the war.

The difference between the confederacy and al quaeda is al quaeda wants to destroy us, the confederacy wanted independence. They even had plans to trade with the united states once their independence was established and recognized.

My personal opinion is that the circumstances surrounding the civil war led to a loss of states rights, and in turn a loss of personal rights for us citizens. I express the opinion that while the federal government won, the citizens lost the war.

In wars there are never any totally good guys, or totally bad guys. davis and lincoln were neither all good nor all bad, they were just humans. Additionally both should be judged by the standards of the time they lived in, not by our modern standards.

 

[elvis]

If someone started a thread which said "happy birthday bin laden", the ire would be unreal, and rightfully so. Yet Jefferson Davis represents the destruction of the US even more than Osama did. Kevin Is a traitorous ungrateful little bastard.

 

[Greenbeard]

Sorry, but your argument falls flat in the face of facts.

I didn't make an argument. I posted, verbatim, South Carolina's explanation of the "causes which induce and justify" its desire to secede from the Union, triggering the secession crisis. In their own words the answer is simple: slavery.

Lincoln, contrary to the "non-revisionist" assertion that he was disliked because of his views on tariffs, is explicitly identified as being offensive because he was a man "whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that 'Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free,' and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction."

Your argument is with the secessionists of South Carolina, not with me. It is they who hold the "progressive" view of the causes of secession. Though I, of course, don't disagree with them.

 

[hortysir]

If someone started a thread which said "happy birthday bin laden", the ire would be unreal, and rightfully so. Yet Jefferson Davis represents the destruction of the US even more than Osama did. Kevin Is a traitorous ungrateful little bastard.

You really can't fathom the idea of an individual state having the ability to choose it's own path, can you?

Lincoln understood it enough to try to lure the states back to the Union with that same promise.

As Colonial nation we were able to cede from GB but, somehow, the South wasn't granted the same ability to separate itself from the Union.

 

[Sunni Man]

Anyone who thinks the Civil War was fought over slavery is very naive.

And people who think the Southern states were in the wrong; do not know the intentions of the Founding Fathers or the meaning of the Constitution.

 

[Katzndogz]

If someone started a thread which said "happy birthday bin laden", the ire would be unreal, and rightfully so. Yet Jefferson Davis represents the destruction of the US even more than Osama did. Kevin Is a traitorous ungrateful little bastard.

The US would not have been destroyed. It would have gone on, just a bit smaller. Or, it may have reunified at some point in the future. Likely though, it would look like North and South Korea with a prosperous South and a starving North.

 

[hortysir]

If someone started a thread which said "happy birthday bin laden", the ire would be unreal, and rightfully so. Yet Jefferson Davis represents the destruction of the US even more than Osama did. Kevin Is a traitorous ungrateful little bastard.

The US would not have been destroyed. It would have gone on, just a bit smaller. Or, it may have reunified at some point in the future. Likely though, it would look like North and South Korea with a prosperous South and a starving North.

^^^^ This

 

[Againsheila]

And slavery!

Yes, the Confederacy practiced slavery, as did the Union. Neither side has the moral high ground on that issue.

Are you serious?! The union, led by Abraham Lincoln and 350,000 dead union soldiers don't have the moral high ground on the issue of slavery? I realize that not everyone in the north was a saint that went off to war to end the suffering of the black man but that is what it was all about and I think the USA can most assuredly claim the moral high ground over the traitors from the CSA.

4 slave holding states remained with the north and their slaves were exempted from the Emancipation Proclamation. The north's slaves were not freed until AFTER the Civil War.

 

[elvis]

If someone started a thread which said "happy birthday bin laden", the ire would be unreal, and rightfully so. Yet Jefferson Davis represents the destruction of the US even more than Osama did. Kevin Is a traitorous ungrateful little bastard.

You really can't fathom the idea of an individual state having the ability to choose it's own path, can you?

Lincoln understood it enough to try to lure the states back to the Union with that same promise.

As Colonial nation we were able to cede from GB but, somehow, the South wasn't granted the same ability to separate itself from the Union.

Fathom the idea? Yes. Is it a good idea. Absolutely not.

 

[hortysir]

If someone started a thread which said "happy birthday bin laden", the ire would be unreal, and rightfully so. Yet Jefferson Davis represents the destruction of the US even more than Osama did. Kevin Is a traitorous ungrateful little bastard.

You really can't fathom the idea of an individual state having the ability to choose it's own path, can you?

Lincoln understood it enough to try to lure the states back to the Union with that same promise.

As Colonial nation we were able to cede from GB but, somehow, the South wasn't granted the same ability to separate itself from the Union.

Fathom the idea? Yes. Is it a good idea. Absolutely not.

Couldn't bare to hear the FF's refer to us as "These united states"?????

 

[Unkotare]

Likely though, it would look like North and South Korea with a prosperous South and a starving North.

That makes absolutely no sense. But then, very little you post does.