He Is Risen

[Not2BSubjugated]

Still hoping AmericanFirst will tell me how smart people should all be able to see the truth evident in the Bible. If you've got passages that provide some sort of proof, I'm truly eager to see them.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Still hoping AmericanFirst will tell me how smart people should all be able to see the truth evident in the Bible. If you've got passages that provide some sort of proof, I'm truly eager to see them.

Smart people read the Bible. If you want to see for yourself, get a Bible, open it, pray, and read it with an open mind. If all you want to do is sit here and want other people to prove it for you, then that just means you are lazy.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

The Bible!!!!

Are you telling me to capitalize, or was that a response? In either case, please expound.

The Bible defines my faith as a CHristian, it is the word of God.

Okay, so let's put this into the context of the entire conversation to which you're responding. Dragon was saying that the Christian dogma smells a bit fishy because a god who loves us wouldn't sentence us to an eternity in the torment of hell. In fact, even a just god wouldn't do that, because no crime could be worth -eternity- in the sort of agony hell promises.

Jake's response was that Dragon is confusing god with idiots that preach in his name but don't know what they're talking about, implying that the hell thing wasn't as serious as it's made out to be.

My response was that the bible itself actually states flatly that hell -is- in fact as shitty as its painted, therefore if you believe that anyone who says gods punishment is that shitty is just an idiot preaching in his name, then you must count the bible among those idiots.

Clearly, you do not, and you believe that the picture of God painted in the bible is the correct one. Based on this, am I correct in assuming that you believe that God is a just god who loves us, yet has given us no proof of his true identity and expects us to guess which set of tenets are his and live our life by them. And this god who is just and loves us is willing, should we guess wrong and break those tenets, to subject us to an -ETERNITY- of abject torture? Am I correct in assuming that you believe this to be a just set of circumstances? Am I correct in assuming that, for a sin that might be based in simple misunderstanding, you'd be willing to subject someone you -love-, as a mother loves her child, to an -ETERNITY- of abject torture? That sort of response would be consistent with your understanding of love and justice? If my assumption's incorrect, show me where I err. If my assumption is correct, please explain how this adds up.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Still hoping AmericanFirst will tell me how smart people should all be able to see the truth evident in the Bible. If you've got passages that provide some sort of proof, I'm truly eager to see them.

Smart people read the Bible. If you want to see for yourself, get a Bible, open it, pray, and read it with an open mind. If all you want to do is sit here and want other people to prove it for you, then that just means you are lazy.

I read plenty of the bible growing up. I practically lived at my Church for several years when I was younger, and I was a Christian honestly attempting to find faith for 20+ years. My lack of faith doesn't stem from laziness, it stems from a lack of proof and my inability to put my faith in something of which I have no proof. I'm not trying to demand that you find faith for me at all.

I am, however, going to hold you to what YOU say. YOU implied that a rocket scientist would be able to look at the bible and see the truth inherent therein. This implies that the bible includes some scriptures that prove the rest of it true. IF that's the case, then I missed those scriptures. My request was a sarcastic one, however. If such scriptures existed they'd be common knowledge by now because every preacher who wasn't a retard would be screaming them from the roof tops.

On top of that, what you said would also imply that most rocket scientists have never looked at a bible or that most rocket scientists are Christians. If I ask you to prove that, will you tell me that if I don't just take you at your word I'm being lazy?

 

[AmericanFirst]

Are you telling me to capitalize, or was that a response? In either case, please expound.

The Bible defines my faith as a CHristian, it is the word of God.

Okay, so let's put this into the context of the entire conversation to which you're responding. Dragon was saying that the Christian dogma smells a bit fishy because a god who loves us wouldn't sentence us to an eternity in the torment of hell. In fact, even a just god wouldn't do that, because no crime could be worth -eternity- in the sort of agony hell promises.

Jake's response was that Dragon is confusing god with idiots that preach in his name but don't know what they're talking about, implying that the hell thing wasn't as serious as it's made out to be.

My response was that the bible itself actually states flatly that hell -is- in fact as shitty as its painted, therefore if you believe that anyone who says gods punishment is that shitty is just an idiot preaching in his name, then you must count the bible among those idiots.

Clearly, you do not, and you believe that the picture of God painted in the bible is the correct one. Based on this, am I correct in assuming that you believe that God is a just god who loves us, yet has given us no proof of his true identity and expects us to guess which set of tenets are his and live our life by them. And this god who is just and loves us is willing, should we guess wrong and break those tenets, to subject us to an -ETERNITY- of abject torture? Am I correct in assuming that you believe this to be a just set of circumstances? Am I correct in assuming that, for a sin that might be based in simple misunderstanding, you'd be willing to subject someone you -love-, as a mother loves her child, to an -ETERNITY- of abject torture? That sort of response would be consistent with your understanding of love and justice? If my assumption's incorrect, show me where I err. If my assumption is correct, please explain how this adds up.

God is a just God that loves us. God doesn't want any man to fall short, but there are consequences to sin. God knew that man could not follow the law set forth in the old testament, mankind tried and failed numerous times. So God sent his Son Jesus to die on the cross for our salvation, it is as simple as that. All anyone has to do is believe in the saving grace God showed us by sending Jesus.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Still hoping AmericanFirst will tell me how smart people should all be able to see the truth evident in the Bible. If you've got passages that provide some sort of proof, I'm truly eager to see them.

Smart people read the Bible. If you want to see for yourself, get a Bible, open it, pray, and read it with an open mind. If all you want to do is sit here and want other people to prove it for you, then that just means you are lazy.

I read plenty of the bible growing up. I practically lived at my Church for several years when I was younger, and I was a Christian honestly attempting to find faith for 20+ years. My lack of faith doesn't stem from laziness, it stems from a lack of proof and my inability to put my faith in something of which I have no proof. I'm not trying to demand that you find faith for me at all.

I am, however, going to hold you to what YOU say. YOU implied that a rocket scientist would be able to look at the bible and see the truth inherent therein. This implies that the bible includes some scriptures that prove the rest of it true. IF that's the case, then I missed those scriptures. My request was a sarcastic one, however. If such scriptures existed they'd be common knowledge by now because every preacher who wasn't a retard would be screaming them from the roof tops.

On top of that, what you said would also imply that most rocket scientists have never looked at a bible or that most rocket scientists are Christians. If I ask you to prove that, will you tell me that if I don't just take you at your word I'm being lazy?

Where did you get I said rocket scientists would be able to read the Bible and believe it? You do not need proof to have faith. Faith is believing in something that you can not prove. You breath oxygen right? How do you know? Because scientists and teachers in school told you that right? Prove it is there, it is odorless, colorless, and tasteless, yet we have faith it is there because we are alive to prove it. I guess in the end we will see. I believe in what the Bible tells me, to me it is simple, believe in Jesus and live forever in paradise. To me proof of God is in his creation, life is too complex to have just evolved.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

The Bible defines my faith as a CHristian, it is the word of God.

Okay, so let's put this into the context of the entire conversation to which you're responding. Dragon was saying that the Christian dogma smells a bit fishy because a god who loves us wouldn't sentence us to an eternity in the torment of hell. In fact, even a just god wouldn't do that, because no crime could be worth -eternity- in the sort of agony hell promises.

Jake's response was that Dragon is confusing god with idiots that preach in his name but don't know what they're talking about, implying that the hell thing wasn't as serious as it's made out to be.

My response was that the bible itself actually states flatly that hell -is- in fact as shitty as its painted, therefore if you believe that anyone who says gods punishment is that shitty is just an idiot preaching in his name, then you must count the bible among those idiots.

Clearly, you do not, and you believe that the picture of God painted in the bible is the correct one. Based on this, am I correct in assuming that you believe that God is a just god who loves us, yet has given us no proof of his true identity and expects us to guess which set of tenets are his and live our life by them. And this god who is just and loves us is willing, should we guess wrong and break those tenets, to subject us to an -ETERNITY- of abject torture? Am I correct in assuming that you believe this to be a just set of circumstances? Am I correct in assuming that, for a sin that might be based in simple misunderstanding, you'd be willing to subject someone you -love-, as a mother loves her child, to an -ETERNITY- of abject torture? That sort of response would be consistent with your understanding of love and justice? If my assumption's incorrect, show me where I err. If my assumption is correct, please explain how this adds up.

God is a just God that loves us. God doesn't want any man to fall short, but there are consequences to sin. God knew that man could not follow the law set forth in the old testament, mankind tried and failed numerous times. So God sent his Son Jesus to die on the cross for our salvation, it is as simple as that. All anyone has to do is believe in the saving grace God showed us by sending Jesus.

God built the entire universe. God created heaven and, more importantly, hell. If God is infinitely powerful, it is within his powerful to not let ANYONE go to hell. If God didn't want anyone to end up there, he could just not send anyone there. I understand that there are consequences to sin. THATS THE WHOLE SUBJECT OF THE DEBATE! What I'm asking you about is if you believe that the consequences (ETERNITY in hell fire, gnashing of teeth, et al), in relation to the sins, are consistent with your ideas of love and justice.

It's also not as simple as just "believe in Jesus and you're good to go". You were, if the bible is correct, lucky enough to live somewhere where its message is the dominant religious message. What about people raised in families and societies that practice some other religion and teach it to their children as fact, as do many Islamic societies? If every authority figure through my entire life told me that Muhammed was God's avatar and not Jesus and essentially brainwashed me into believing it as fact, would a just God determine that it was -my- fault for not seeing through everything I was ever taught and guessing the correct avatar? Would a God who loves me consider an eternity of hell fire a fitting punishment for not being able to see through it all?

 

[Avatar4321]

God built the entire universe. God created heaven and, more importantly, hell. If God is infinitely powerful, it is within his powerful to not let ANYONE go to hell. If God didn't want anyone to end up there, he could just not send anyone there. I understand that there are consequences to sin. THATS THE WHOLE SUBJECT OF THE DEBATE! What I'm asking you about is if you believe that the consequences (ETERNITY in hell fire, gnashing of teeth, et al), in relation to the sins, are consistent with your ideas of love and justice.

It's also not as simple as just "believe in Jesus and you're good to go". You were, if the bible is correct, lucky enough to live somewhere where its message is the dominant religious message. What about people raised in families and societies that practice some other religion and teach it to their children as fact, as do many Islamic societies? If every authority figure through my entire life told me that Muhammed was God's avatar and not Jesus and essentially brainwashed me into believing it as fact, would a just God determine that it was -my- fault for not seeing through everything I was ever taught and guessing the correct avatar? Would a God who loves me consider an eternity of hell fire a fitting punishment for not being able to see through it all?

God wants us to be happiness. We can only be happy if we choose righteousness. He can't force us to be happy. It's an impossibility.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Smart people read the Bible. If you want to see for yourself, get a Bible, open it, pray, and read it with an open mind. If all you want to do is sit here and want other people to prove it for you, then that just means you are lazy.

I read plenty of the bible growing up. I practically lived at my Church for several years when I was younger, and I was a Christian honestly attempting to find faith for 20+ years. My lack of faith doesn't stem from laziness, it stems from a lack of proof and my inability to put my faith in something of which I have no proof. I'm not trying to demand that you find faith for me at all.

I am, however, going to hold you to what YOU say. YOU implied that a rocket scientist would be able to look at the bible and see the truth inherent therein. This implies that the bible includes some scriptures that prove the rest of it true. IF that's the case, then I missed those scriptures. My request was a sarcastic one, however. If such scriptures existed they'd be common knowledge by now because every preacher who wasn't a retard would be screaming them from the roof tops.

On top of that, what you said would also imply that most rocket scientists have never looked at a bible or that most rocket scientists are Christians. If I ask you to prove that, will you tell me that if I don't just take you at your word I'm being lazy?

Where did you get I said rocket scientists would be able to read the Bible and believe it? You do not need proof to have faith. Faith is believing in something that you can not prove. You breath oxygen right? How do you know? Because scientists and teachers in school told you that right? Prove it is there, it is odorless, colorless, and tasteless, yet we have faith it is there because we are alive to prove it. I guess in the end we will see. I believe in what the Bible tells me, to me it is simple, believe in Jesus and live forever in paradise. To me proof of God is in his creation, life is too complex to have just evolved.

Your actual quote was, "Neither of you are rocket scientists, you can't even see the truths in the Bible. Lying all the time doesn't help you guys."

I agree with you on your take on faith, however. I currently hold a bit of faith in the explanation that what my body's using from the air I breathe is the oxygen, but it has to be acknowledged that a good deal of the reason why everyone has faith in that explanation is because it's the only widely held theory. IF someone else had an equally compelling explanation that was as hard to disprove as the current chemical theory, you'd see more debate over the topic, and even I might be inclined to go the other way depending on what sort of evidence was offered.

I'm also not trying to tell you that your faith is incorrect. I accept that Christianity could very well have the correct explanation as to the nature of being, but as far as proof goes its only one of an infinite number of potential explanations. For all I know, my consciousness is the only thing that really exists, floating in a sea of nothingness, and creating a dream of this existence to pass the time. With the Christian explanation, however, as with most religious explanations that I've been exposed to, there's what seem to be some glaring contradictions, in this case particularly with God and his motives and abilities.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

God built the entire universe. God created heaven and, more importantly, hell. If God is infinitely powerful, it is within his powerful to not let ANYONE go to hell. If God didn't want anyone to end up there, he could just not send anyone there. I understand that there are consequences to sin. THATS THE WHOLE SUBJECT OF THE DEBATE! What I'm asking you about is if you believe that the consequences (ETERNITY in hell fire, gnashing of teeth, et al), in relation to the sins, are consistent with your ideas of love and justice.

It's also not as simple as just "believe in Jesus and you're good to go". You were, if the bible is correct, lucky enough to live somewhere where its message is the dominant religious message. What about people raised in families and societies that practice some other religion and teach it to their children as fact, as do many Islamic societies? If every authority figure through my entire life told me that Muhammed was God's avatar and not Jesus and essentially brainwashed me into believing it as fact, would a just God determine that it was -my- fault for not seeing through everything I was ever taught and guessing the correct avatar? Would a God who loves me consider an eternity of hell fire a fitting punishment for not being able to see through it all?

God wants us to be happiness. We can only be happy if we choose righteousness. He can't force us to be happy. It's an impossibility.

This doesn't at all address the hell concept. Also, for the creator of all things, adjusting our programming strikes me as something that would be relatively simple.

 

[daveman]

Not once has any Christian ever addressed any part of that list I showed which is right out of the scriptures. You know why...........they're so brainwashed with bullshit that if they did address it they would either have to deny it or look like a fool.

Once again, you demonstrate you have zero understanding of faith.

So, talked anyone out of their faith yet?

No?

Not at all surprising.

Still nobody ready to step forward and verify their belief in the huge crock of shit dreamed up by primitive mankind stemming from a developing imagination. I've said it before...if the creator of the universe dropped by during ancient times and left the only keys to the kingdom with a bunch of ignorant primitives who "put witches to death" and believed the earth was flat he has one helluva sense of humor.

I've said it before -- you're a retard.

You're doing nothing but confirming.

 

[Cammmpbell]

You are mixing up God with nutcases preaching in His name.

Should I judge atheism by some of the postings of the haters here who claim to be atheists?

Sorry, but eternity in the lake of fire and the gnashing of teeth and all of that loveliness. . . that comes from the bible. If the bible is only another example of nutcases preaching in God's name, then what -is- the hard, physical standard by which you define your faith as a Christian?

The Bible!!!!

The bible which has been at the root of the deaths of hundreds of millions of innocents with it's pure horse shit

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.(homosexuality)

Romans 1:26-27

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.(homosexuality)

Exodus 22

18Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live(witchcraft)


Colossians 4

1Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.(slavery)

followed by the biggest crock of bullshit in the history of mankind:
Old Testament Death Penalty Sins

Murder - Gen. 9:6; Ex. 21:12-14,20,23; Lev. 24:17,21; Num. 35:16-34; Deut. 19.

Failing to circumcise - Gen. 17:14; Ex. 4:24,25.

Eating leavened bread during feast of unleavened bread - Ex.
2:15,19.

Smiting Parents- Ex. 21:15.

Kidnapping - Ex. 21:16; Deut. 24:7.

Cursing Parents - Ex. 21:17; Lev. 20:9.

Negligence with animals that kill - Ex. 21:28-32.

Witchcraft - Ex. 22:18.

Bestiality - Ex. 22:19; Lev. 18:23-29; 20:15,16.

Idolatry - Ex. 22:20.

Making holy anointing oil - Ex. 30:33.

Putting holy anointing oil on strangers - Ex. 30:33.

Making the holy perfume - Ex. 30:38.

Defiling the Sabbath - Ex. 31:14.

Working on the Sabbath - Ex. 35:2.

Eating the flesh of the peace offerings in
uncleanness - Lev. 7:20,21.

Eating the fat of sacrifices - Lev. 7:25.

Killing sacrifices other than at the door of the tabernacle - Lev. 17:1-9.

Eating blood - Lev. 17:10-14.

Incest - Lev. 18:6-29; 20:11-22.

Eating sacrifices at the wrong time - Lev. 19:5-8.

Consecration of children to idols - Lev. 20:1-5.

Spiritualism - Lev. 20:6,27.

Adultery - Lev. 20:10; Deut. 22:22-30.

Sodomy/Homosexuality - Lev. 20:13.

Relationship with a menstruous woman - Lev. 20:18.

Whoredom - Lev. 21:9; Deut. 22:21,22.

Sacrilege - Lev. 22:3.

Refusing to fast on day of atonement - Lev. 23:29.

Working on atonement - Lev. 23:30.

Blasphemy - Lev. 24:11-16.

Failure to keep the Passover - Num. 9:13.

Presumptuous - Num. 15:30,31.

Gathering firewood on the Sabbath - Num. 15:32,36.

Failure to purify self before worship - Num. 19:13,20.

False prophecy - Deut. 13:1-18; 18:20.

Leading men away from God - Deut. 13:6-18.

Stubbornness and rebelliousness - Deut. 21:18-23.

Gluttony - Deut. 21:20-23.

Drunkenness - Deut. 21:20-23.

Backbiting - Deut. 17:2-7.

False dreams and visions - Deut. 13:1-18.

 

[nitroz]

Sorry, but eternity in the lake of fire and the gnashing of teeth and all of that loveliness. . . that comes from the bible. If the bible is only another example of nutcases preaching in God's name, then what -is- the hard, physical standard by which you define your faith as a Christian?

The Bible!!!!

The bible which has been at the root of the deaths of hundreds of millions of innocents with it's pure horse shit

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.(homosexuality)

Romans 1:26-27

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.(homosexuality)

Exodus 22

18Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live(witchcraft)


Colossians 4

1Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.(slavery)

followed by the biggest crock of bullshit in the history of mankind:
Old Testament Death Penalty Sins

Murder - Gen. 9:6; Ex. 21:12-14,20,23; Lev. 24:17,21; Num. 35:16-34; Deut. 19.

Failing to circumcise - Gen. 17:14; Ex. 4:24,25.

Eating leavened bread during feast of unleavened bread - Ex.
2:15,19.

Smiting Parents- Ex. 21:15.

Kidnapping - Ex. 21:16; Deut. 24:7.

Cursing Parents - Ex. 21:17; Lev. 20:9.

Negligence with animals that kill - Ex. 21:28-32.

Witchcraft - Ex. 22:18.

Bestiality - Ex. 22:19; Lev. 18:23-29; 20:15,16.

Idolatry - Ex. 22:20.

Making holy anointing oil - Ex. 30:33.

Putting holy anointing oil on strangers - Ex. 30:33.

Making the holy perfume - Ex. 30:38.

Defiling the Sabbath - Ex. 31:14.

Working on the Sabbath - Ex. 35:2.

Eating the flesh of the peace offerings in
uncleanness - Lev. 7:20,21.

Eating the fat of sacrifices - Lev. 7:25.

Killing sacrifices other than at the door of the tabernacle - Lev. 17:1-9.

Eating blood - Lev. 17:10-14.

Incest - Lev. 18:6-29; 20:11-22.

Eating sacrifices at the wrong time - Lev. 19:5-8.

Consecration of children to idols - Lev. 20:1-5.

Spiritualism - Lev. 20:6,27.

Adultery - Lev. 20:10; Deut. 22:22-30.

Sodomy/Homosexuality - Lev. 20:13.

Relationship with a menstruous woman - Lev. 20:18.

Whoredom - Lev. 21:9; Deut. 22:21,22.

Sacrilege - Lev. 22:3.

Refusing to fast on day of atonement - Lev. 23:29.

Working on atonement - Lev. 23:30.

Blasphemy - Lev. 24:11-16.

Failure to keep the Passover - Num. 9:13.

Presumptuous - Num. 15:30,31.

Gathering firewood on the Sabbath - Num. 15:32,36.

Failure to purify self before worship - Num. 19:13,20.

False prophecy - Deut. 13:1-18; 18:20.

Leading men away from God - Deut. 13:6-18.

Stubbornness and rebelliousness - Deut. 21:18-23.

Gluttony - Deut. 21:20-23.

Drunkenness - Deut. 21:20-23.

Backbiting - Deut. 17:2-7.

False dreams and visions - Deut. 13:1-18.

Unfortunate truth.
And don't forget other religious books.

 

[Cammmpbell]

The Bible!!!!

The bible which has been at the root of the deaths of hundreds of millions of innocents with it's pure horse shit

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.(homosexuality)

Romans 1:26-27

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.(homosexuality)

Exodus 22

18Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live(witchcraft)


Colossians 4

1Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.(slavery)

followed by the biggest crock of bullshit in the history of mankind:
Old Testament Death Penalty Sins

Murder - Gen. 9:6; Ex. 21:12-14,20,23; Lev. 24:17,21; Num. 35:16-34; Deut. 19.

Failing to circumcise - Gen. 17:14; Ex. 4:24,25.

Eating leavened bread during feast of unleavened bread - Ex.
2:15,19.

Smiting Parents- Ex. 21:15.

Kidnapping - Ex. 21:16; Deut. 24:7.

Cursing Parents - Ex. 21:17; Lev. 20:9.

Negligence with animals that kill - Ex. 21:28-32.

Witchcraft - Ex. 22:18.

Bestiality - Ex. 22:19; Lev. 18:23-29; 20:15,16.

Idolatry - Ex. 22:20.

Making holy anointing oil - Ex. 30:33.

Putting holy anointing oil on strangers - Ex. 30:33.

Making the holy perfume - Ex. 30:38.

Defiling the Sabbath - Ex. 31:14.

Working on the Sabbath - Ex. 35:2.

Eating the flesh of the peace offerings in
uncleanness - Lev. 7:20,21.

Eating the fat of sacrifices - Lev. 7:25.

Killing sacrifices other than at the door of the tabernacle - Lev. 17:1-9.

Eating blood - Lev. 17:10-14.

Incest - Lev. 18:6-29; 20:11-22.

Eating sacrifices at the wrong time - Lev. 19:5-8.

Consecration of children to idols - Lev. 20:1-5.

Spiritualism - Lev. 20:6,27.

Adultery - Lev. 20:10; Deut. 22:22-30.

Sodomy/Homosexuality - Lev. 20:13.

Relationship with a menstruous woman - Lev. 20:18.

Whoredom - Lev. 21:9; Deut. 22:21,22.

Sacrilege - Lev. 22:3.

Refusing to fast on day of atonement - Lev. 23:29.

Working on atonement - Lev. 23:30.

Blasphemy - Lev. 24:11-16.

Failure to keep the Passover - Num. 9:13.

Presumptuous - Num. 15:30,31.

Gathering firewood on the Sabbath - Num. 15:32,36.

Failure to purify self before worship - Num. 19:13,20.

False prophecy - Deut. 13:1-18; 18:20.

Leading men away from God - Deut. 13:6-18.

Stubbornness and rebelliousness - Deut. 21:18-23.

Gluttony - Deut. 21:20-23.

Drunkenness - Deut. 21:20-23.

Backbiting - Deut. 17:2-7.

False dreams and visions - Deut. 13:1-18.

Unfortunate truth.
And don't forget other religious books.

Most other (Christian) religious books use the author's interpretation of the bible as reference. Since they only use the god is love parts and their own opinions that means about 90% of the bible is ignored.

If the NY Times had sent 10 star reporters to cover the times and mission of Jesus Christ and they had returned with the contradictory, questionable gospel accounts and Paul's writings the newspaper would have fired them all and their stories would have never been published.

 

[Dragon]

God is a just God that loves us.

Really? Let's see . . .

God doesn't want any man to fall short, but there are consequences to sin.

God is omniscient and omnipotent and created everything in existence, therefore any consequences to sin are the work of God himself. The implication that he has no choice about the matter is clearly false.

God knew that man could not follow the law set forth in the old testament, mankind tried and failed numerous times. So God sent his Son Jesus to die on the cross for our salvation, it is as simple as that. All anyone has to do is believe in the saving grace God showed us by sending Jesus.

But God did not HAVE to send his son to die on the cross to accomplish any of this; he had only to say "make it so." I remind everyone as well, that originally the rationale behind the sacrifice of Christ was that God was a bloodthirsty, vengeful monster who required pain and death in recompense for sin, but was appeased by the suffering and death of Jesus. While it was abhorrent, this reasoning was at least logically consistent.

In the end, there are only two ways to justify what AF just said above. Either we conclude that God is a monster, or we conclude that God is a limited being and not omnipotent at all.

 

[Cammmpbell]

God is a just God that loves us.

Really? Let's see . . .

God doesn't want any man to fall short, but there are consequences to sin.

God is omniscient and omnipotent and created everything in existence, therefore any consequences to sin are the work of God himself. The implication that he has no choice about the matter is clearly false.

God knew that man could not follow the law set forth in the old testament, mankind tried and failed numerous times. So God sent his Son Jesus to die on the cross for our salvation, it is as simple as that. All anyone has to do is believe in the saving grace God showed us by sending Jesus.

But God did not HAVE to send his son to die on the cross to accomplish any of this; he had only to say "make it so." I remind everyone as well, that originally the rationale behind the sacrifice of Christ was that God was a bloodthirsty, vengeful monster who required pain and death in recompense for sin, but was appeased by the suffering and death of Jesus. While it was abhorrent, this reasoning was at least logically consistent.

In the end, there are only two ways to justify what AF just said above. Either we conclude that God is a monster, or we conclude that God is a limited being and not omnipotent at all.

AAAAAAAHHHH!!!!! C'mon now....just because there were many other savior, son of god, born of a virgin, miraculous resurrected gods acording to the annals of ancient god worship beginning 3000 BC in ancient Egypt doesn't mean the Jewish version wasn't true. The Christians believe Jesus will come back on a cloud and not only resurrect them from the dead but bring them close to him and protect them for all eternity. They couldn't even get an interview with their mayor but they are on a first name basis with the creator of the universe.......Yeah Right!

 

[saveliberty]

God is a just God that loves us.

Really? Let's see . . .

God doesn't want any man to fall short, but there are consequences to sin.

God is omniscient and omnipotent and created everything in existence, therefore any consequences to sin are the work of God himself. The implication that he has no choice about the matter is clearly false.

God knew that man could not follow the law set forth in the old testament, mankind tried and failed numerous times. So God sent his Son Jesus to die on the cross for our salvation, it is as simple as that. All anyone has to do is believe in the saving grace God showed us by sending Jesus.

But God did not HAVE to send his son to die on the cross to accomplish any of this; he had only to say "make it so." I remind everyone as well, that originally the rationale behind the sacrifice of Christ was that God was a bloodthirsty, vengeful monster who required pain and death in recompense for sin, but was appeased by the suffering and death of Jesus. While it was abhorrent, this reasoning was at least logically consistent.

In the end, there are only two ways to justify what AF just said above. Either we conclude that God is a monster, or we conclude that God is a limited being and not omnipotent at all.

God allows free will as a creation as well. The failure of humans to use it wisely has consequences. You want predetermination? Didn't think so. Feel free to use your free will to whine and complain about every little hypocritical thing you can think of though.

 

[Dragon]

God allows free will as a creation as well. The failure of humans to use it wisely has consequences.

Free will is not the issue, and we are discussing not the existence of consequences but a particular set of consequences which cannot be the work of a just and loving god.

 

[saveliberty]

God allows free will as a creation as well. The failure of humans to use it wisely has consequences.

Free will is not the issue, and we are discussing not the existence of consequences but a particular set of consequences which cannot be the work of a just and loving god.

The wages of sin are death. Jesus was sent to pay that debt. Funny that you should hold God up to some standard and knowledge that YOU have.

 

[Dragon]

God allows free will as a creation as well. The failure of humans to use it wisely has consequences.

Free will is not the issue, and we are discussing not the existence of consequences but a particular set of consequences which cannot be the work of a just and loving god.

The wages of sin are death. Jesus was sent to pay that debt. Funny that you should hold God up to some standard and knowledge that YOU have.

That's not precisely what I'm doing. Rather, I'm holding someone's CLAIM about God up to standards of making any sense. If I find (as I do) that the claim is that God does things which are monstrous, I do not conclude that God is monstrous. I conclude, rather, that the claim is false.