Heating and AC , You're screwed

[owebo]

I didn't even realize...

I guess this January the government , with their "efficiency" BS , made 14 SEER heating and air conditioning the minimum which can be sold in the U.S.

One of the manufacturers told us they are barley scraping by making 14 SEER equipment, if the government raises the minimum to 15 SEER (which I think they are already planning to do) then we're talking about high efficiency motors. In my area high efficiency motors average $1500.

The high efficiency equipment designers have a habit of placing several circuit boards into one system. circuit boards are $400 to $800. Many go out without any reason.

Like everything else, the government is going to save you 5 bucks on your monthly bill , but send the money back to the economy with high repair costs.





By-the-way, I heard something about a new refrigerant for cars, R1234 , currently selling for $1000 per jug

Tell me about it. I've just done a project for a client to improve the Heat Strip efficiency that's used for "emergency back-up".. And I KNOW that my 12 Seer bottom floor unit is completely fagged out anytime it's below freezing out. Nothing like Govt logic of making fans/compressors run ALL DAY by lowering the energy used..

Below 30 degF outside, the unit runs CONSTANTLY and loses ground until the 10KWatt electric heat strips finally kick in and suck the juice right out of the power company..

It's madness. Sheer madness. With a little bit of fraud and hubris mixed in... .

Wear more clothes, that will help the clothing industry...

Your depends are made in Pennsylvania....

It depends..

What's that stink?

 

[Moonglow]

I didn't even realize...

I guess this January the government , with their "efficiency" BS , made 14 SEER heating and air conditioning the minimum which can be sold in the U.S.

One of the manufacturers told us they are barley scraping by making 14 SEER equipment, if the government raises the minimum to 15 SEER (which I think they are already planning to do) then we're talking about high efficiency motors. In my area high efficiency motors average $1500.

The high efficiency equipment designers have a habit of placing several circuit boards into one system. circuit boards are $400 to $800. Many go out without any reason.

Like everything else, the government is going to save you 5 bucks on your monthly bill , but send the money back to the economy with high repair costs.





By-the-way, I heard something about a new refrigerant for cars, R1234 , currently selling for $1000 per jug

Tell me about it. I've just done a project for a client to improve the Heat Strip efficiency that's used for "emergency back-up".. And I KNOW that my 12 Seer bottom floor unit is completely fagged out anytime it's below freezing out. Nothing like Govt logic of making fans/compressors run ALL DAY by lowering the energy used..

Below 30 degF outside, the unit runs CONSTANTLY and loses ground until the 10KWatt electric heat strips finally kick in and suck the juice right out of the power company..

It's madness. Sheer madness. With a little bit of fraud and hubris mixed in... .

Wear more clothes, that will help the clothing industry...

Your depends are made in Pennsylvania....

It depends..

What's that stink?

The compounds ethanethiol and propanethiol added to natural gas to detect a leak...

 

[Jarlaxle]

Exactly, turns out the supposed safer refrigerant was not more efficient or so safe and newer systems have been having issues quicker then then the former.
My suggestion is to buy the older refrigerant on Amazon $27-$30 a can not 100 from AC co and have your certified AC friend or company fill the system this at least saves 50% + on the freon costs as the A/C guy doubles or more the already excessive cost of freon.
Or if you have some experience from car freon installations learn home AC on Youtube get a license $50-$65 and do it yourself.
All you need are cheap leak detectors under $20. and metalic bonding compound to repair found leaks, manifolds (pressure reader) under $30 that read your type of freon, and a temp gauge for the hi and lo line.

Great idea. I think I'll also check on the DIY appendectomy kit too. What could go wrong?

Do you call an electrician to replace a wall switch? A plumber to unclog a drain, maybe?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Oh look, a thread of ludditers tossing out alarmist rumors to push a political agenda. How quaint.

Diesels? The crazies have screamed about every upgrade since forever. The result? Efficient, powerful, low pollution engines. If it were up to the luddites, every truck would still be fuel-guzzling fume-belching monster.

My work truck uses more fuel that the truck it replaced. This despite having a lower box and smaller engine. It has also required three trips to a dealer for major service on the emission systems. We have tractors that have NEVER run correctly, and at least two that have never topped 4 miles per gallon.

Cars? The same screams of doom with every upgrade. The same result, far better engines. In the dream days of the luddites, engines didn't last to 100,000. Now they'll always last to 200,000 or more.

How many cars will be scrapped in a few years because the touch screen that controls the HVAC/stereo/navigation/etc. fails, and a replacement costs more than the car is worth? Hell, there are cars now where replacing something as mundane as a BATTERY requires a $500 trip to a dealer!

They screamed about light bulbs. The new light bulbs are a raging success. Flac here is even demanding hot light bulbs be used as heaters for the winter, not caring that electric heating is less efficient than a furnace, and apparently thinking we should change out light bulbs seasonally, unless he wants to use them as heaters in summer as well.

Low flow toilets? Just how much shit do you people create? The first gen was a problem, but that was solved 20 years ago. I've never heard of anyone but a conservative having trouble with them now.

They screamed about the loss of R12 freon. Losing it would destroy the economy. It didn't.

Appliances? All more efficient now.

Yeah...while working half as well and lasting half as long. When I moved, I took a look at the new fridges available...then bought one, left it in my old house, and brought my 30-year-old Kenmore with me. My mother's new fridge has needed four major repairs in ten years...mine has needed none.

 

[Jarlaxle]

BTW -- in the winter -- your house and thermostat don't care if that BTU came from the furnace or a 400 Watt light fixture

But your wallet cares.

Do you run a space heater to heat your house?

No? You mean that would be wildly inefficient compared to a gas furnace?

Then why do you advocate running many little space heaters? Even in winter, that's inefficient.

And again, it ignores summer completely.

There are a surprising number of places (especially apartments) that DO heat exclusively with electricity. My sister lived in one just out of college.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Oh look, a thread of ludditers tossing out alarmist rumors to push a political agenda. How quaint.

Diesels? The crazies have screamed about every upgrade since forever. The result? Efficient, powerful, low pollution engines. If it were up to the luddites, every truck would still be fuel-guzzling fume-belching monster.

Cars? The same screams of doom with every upgrade. The same result, far better engines. In the dream days of the luddites, engines didn't last to 100,000. Now they'll always last to 200,000 or more.

They screamed about light bulbs. The new light bulbs are a raging success. Flac here is even demanding hot light bulbs be used as heaters for the winter, not caring that electric heating is less efficient than a furnace, and apparently thinking we should change out light bulbs seasonally, unless he wants to use them as heaters in summer as well.

Low flow toilets? Just how much shit do you people create? The first gen was a problem, but that was solved 20 years ago. I've never heard of anyone but a conservative having trouble with them now.

They screamed about the loss of R12 freon. Losing it would destroy the economy. It didn't.

Appliances? All more efficient now.

If we had listened to these luddites, our economy would be getting reamed by the inefficient technology wasting massive amounts of energy, on top of environmental damage. And we wouldn't be able to sell the US goods in europe an other markets, so exports would be hammered. It's as if the luddites want to destroy both our economy and our environment.

Yeah.. Just think. . All that electricity conservation for ME -- so that my neighbor can suck 36KW-hrs from the grid twice a week for HIS Chevy volt.. Yeah.. We're just a bunch of whiners.

BTW -- in the winter -- your house and thermostat don't care if that BTU came from the furnace or a 400 Watt light fixture. And with incandescents the energy either went to photons or to heat. So the heat was never wasted when your thermostat was in heat cycle. Now even in Tenn -- my HVAC is set to heat 7 months of the year and 2 more months where it's essentially OFF. Leaving a mere 3 months of peak cooling. So even with that math -- in MOST states in the US -- the Incandescent was GREATLY maligned for "wasting" anything. In fact, I've got a buddy that does builder energy certification and NOW they have new charts and tables to reflect the missing "heat load" from switching to LED lighting.

Here on the gulf coast, I have had to run the AC at least a few days every month all winter long. I don't need a lot of extra heat.

Understand that. That's why I said MOST of the country. Most of the time these DC national mandates dont really ALLOW for regional choices or logic or reason.. In FACT -- the whole Heat Pump market is virtually south of the Mason Dixon line. You wouldn't survive a Green Bay winter in a medium/large house with a 14 SEER heat pump..

Heat pumps in general do not like extreme cold.

 

[mamooth]

How many cars will be scrapped in a few years because the touch screen that controls the HVAC/stereo/navigation/etc. fails, and a replacement costs more than the car is worth? Hell, there are cars now where replacing something as mundane as a BATTERY requires a $500 trip to a dealer!

What does that have to do with efficiency standards?

The rest of your stuff is called "anecdotes".

You know why old stuff seemingly doesn't break down? Because the old stuff that did break down broke down long ago. Therefore, you don't see it break down now.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Sounds like crap. Maytag products suck.

My 1972 Maytag washer/dryer set is chugging along fine. I've replaced the heating element in the dryer once, that's all.

Yeah, they're not making them like that anymore.

If/when mine dies, I'm looking for an old one. Last one lasted 20+ years.

I am still using my old Kenmore...if it finally dies, I will probably get a HE front-loader. My mother has one, and it is superb.

 

[Jarlaxle]

BTW -- in the winter -- your house and thermostat don't care if that BTU came from the furnace or a 400 Watt light fixture. And with incandescents the energy either went to photons or to heat. So the heat was never wasted when your thermostat was in heat cycle. Now even in Tenn -- my HVAC is set to heat 7 months of the year and 2 more months where it's essentially OFF. Leaving a mere 3 months of peak cooling. So even with that math -- in MOST states in the US -- the Incandescent was GREATLY maligned for "wasting" anything. In fact, I've got a buddy that does builder energy certification and NOW they have new charts and tables to reflect the missing "heat load" from switching to LED lighting.

CFLs are another thing. The government rammed them down our throats, turns out they are a disposal hazard and didn't light up for shit when cold. Or dimable. Along comes the greedy capitalists and offer us LEDs just a few short years later. They come on full power right away, dimable, run dirt cheap and run cool to the touch and are getting cheaper to purchase by the day. CFLs are already obsolete in my opinion.

CFLs have been around for thirty years. They work fine in the cold...I have been using them outdoors for twenty!

 

[Marion Morrison]

Exactly, turns out the supposed safer refrigerant was not more efficient or so safe and newer systems have been having issues quicker then then the former.
My suggestion is to buy the older refrigerant on Amazon $27-$30 a can not 100 from AC co and have your certified AC friend or company fill the system this at least saves 50% + on the freon costs as the A/C guy doubles or more the already excessive cost of freon.
Or if you have some experience from car freon installations learn home AC on Youtube get a license $50-$65 and do it yourself.
All you need are cheap leak detectors under $20. and metalic bonding compound to repair found leaks, manifolds (pressure reader) under $30 that read your type of freon, and a temp gauge for the hi and lo line.

Great idea. I think I'll also check on the DIY appendectomy kit too. What could go wrong?

Do you call an electrician to replace a wall switch? A plumber to unclog a drain, maybe?

Why call someone and pay them when you can do that yourself?

 

[Marion Morrison]

BTW -- in the winter -- your house and thermostat don't care if that BTU came from the furnace or a 400 Watt light fixture. And with incandescents the energy either went to photons or to heat. So the heat was never wasted when your thermostat was in heat cycle. Now even in Tenn -- my HVAC is set to heat 7 months of the year and 2 more months where it's essentially OFF. Leaving a mere 3 months of peak cooling. So even with that math -- in MOST states in the US -- the Incandescent was GREATLY maligned for "wasting" anything. In fact, I've got a buddy that does builder energy certification and NOW they have new charts and tables to reflect the missing "heat load" from switching to LED lighting.

CFLs are another thing. The government rammed them down our throats, turns out they are a disposal hazard and didn't light up for shit when cold. Or dimable. Along comes the greedy capitalists and offer us LEDs just a few short years later. They come on full power right away, dimable, run dirt cheap and run cool to the touch and are getting cheaper to purchase by the day. CFLs are already obsolete in my opinion.

CFLs have been around for thirty years. They work fine in the cold...I have been using them outdoors for twenty!

Bullshit! 20 years it was 1997 and there were no CFL bulbs available at hardware stores. They only popped up on shelves about 6 or so years ago.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Fuck liberals, I purchased a government regulated low flow shower head at Home Depot and drilled a big ass hole in the low flow restrictor with my cordless drill, eat it libs!

I bought a low-flow showerhead over 20 years ago...I like it so much that I have brought it with me when I moved, twice. I wish I could find another like it, but I think the company went under.

 

[Iceweasel]

BTW -- in the winter -- your house and thermostat don't care if that BTU came from the furnace or a 400 Watt light fixture. And with incandescents the energy either went to photons or to heat. So the heat was never wasted when your thermostat was in heat cycle. Now even in Tenn -- my HVAC is set to heat 7 months of the year and 2 more months where it's essentially OFF. Leaving a mere 3 months of peak cooling. So even with that math -- in MOST states in the US -- the Incandescent was GREATLY maligned for "wasting" anything. In fact, I've got a buddy that does builder energy certification and NOW they have new charts and tables to reflect the missing "heat load" from switching to LED lighting.

CFLs are another thing. The government rammed them down our throats, turns out they are a disposal hazard and didn't light up for shit when cold. Or dimable. Along comes the greedy capitalists and offer us LEDs just a few short years later. They come on full power right away, dimable, run dirt cheap and run cool to the touch and are getting cheaper to purchase by the day. CFLs are already obsolete in my opinion.

CFLs have been around for thirty years. They work fine in the cold...I have been using them outdoors for twenty!

Florescent bulbs take time to come on fully. Yes, they work but there's a better solution now.

 

[Iceweasel]

Fuck liberals, I purchased a government regulated low flow shower head at Home Depot and drilled a big ass hole in the low flow restrictor with my cordless drill, eat it libs!

I bought a low-flow showerhead over 20 years ago...I like it so much that I have brought it with me when I moved, twice. I wish I could find another like it, but I think the company went under.

I'm curious, what prevents you from turning down the shower valve?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Or the low-juice LED traffic lights they installed widespread in Minnesota and Wisconsin that got completely covered in snow and ice BECAUSE there was not "wasted heat"... Had to install heaters. True story..

BS comparison.
That's true of all things in the northern tier states. Even car & truck engines that generate heat by design require an external source of heat during the winter months in that neck of the woods.

Naah, not for decades. Modern engines will start unaided at -25 or colder.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Appliances? All more efficient now.

If we had listened to these luddites, our economy would be getting reamed by the inefficient technology wasting massive amounts of energy, on top of environmental damage. And we wouldn't be able to sell the US goods in europe an other markets, so exports would be hammered. It's as if the luddites want to destroy both our economy and our environment.

LOL at the name calling then immediately launching into brainwashed tripe. Technology has always moved forward and always will. Government forcing standards ahead of time causes all kinds of problems and we end users take it in the shorts.

Due to CAFE standards I lost a car engine, and my ass. Got stuck in Canada. The engine was too small for the body but GM stuck it in there to meet government regulations.

Appliances for the most part are not made to last. You can find refrigerators from the 50s still plugging along. My HE Samsung washing machine died. Sure it used less water but when I replaced it with a Speed Queen, made the old fashioned way, I discovered it took twice as long. I use more water per load now but do it in half the time. Electricity costs money too.

Save your lecture for your fellow drones.

In my house that I just inherited from my mother is a Wizard refrigerator that was built in 1957. It had NEVER been serviced. Not bad for a 60 year-old refrigerator.

I just replaced mine last year. It was a GE that gave me 25 years of service. GE used to make appliances that lasted forever. In fact, my mother still has a GE window air conditioner I bought for her (used) back in 1983, and it's still kicking out cold air.

The air conditioner my grandmother bought from Woolworth's in 1979 has outlasted, at last count, four "replacements" and counting.

 

[Jarlaxle]

In a sense, yes. Think of it this way: how many things do we do in a normal day that is related to energy or health? I'll highlight it in red.

Before you wake up in the morning, your automatic thermostat turns on the heat for your comfort. Your electric alarm clock goes off, and you get up and begin to make breakfast on the stove using natural gas or propane. You decide on bacon and eggs, loaded with salt, fat and other artery clogging compounds that increase your cholesterol. You then rinse off your plate with hot water and put that and your utensils in the dish washer.

Then you get into a nice hot shower, come out, and dry your hair with a hair dryer. Then you drive to work, get into the office or shop, and get a cup of coffee and doughnuts before you get started. Lunch time comes around and you drive to Burger King for a whopper combo.

At the end of the day, you drive home, eat dinner, and have a couple of drinks while watching television. Then it's make a sandwich for the evening, and head to bed only to start the day all over again tomorrow.

This is a typical day in America, and I won't even get into sporting activities like soft ball, weight lifting, or racket ball. Or perhaps you drive a motorcycle which could have dire consequences if you get into an accident. Maybe you smoke cigarettes, weed or cigars.

Most things we do in a day are related to energy and health. Even though government doesn't totally control that yet, look at what DumBama did in relation to both those things: school lunches, closing down tobacco shops all across America, trying to close down coal powered electric plants, increased CAFE standards for cars and trucks in the future, forcing restaurants to post calorie count on every single item they sell.

Coal powered electric plants should be closed down.

Do you support greatly expanding the use of nuclear power?

 

[BluesLegend]

Fuck liberals, I purchased a government regulated low flow shower head at Home Depot and drilled a big ass hole in the low flow restrictor with my cordless drill, eat it libs!

I bought a low-flow showerhead over 20 years ago...I like it so much that I have brought it with me when I moved, twice. I wish I could find another like it, but I think the company went under.

I'm curious, what prevents you from turning down the shower valve?

Many shower valves have just one knob that adjusts temp not flow.

 

[Jarlaxle]

No guy, it's because the biofuel thing was a scam and a big money handout to Obama's buddies who disappeared into the woodwork like the worms they are. All the Biofuel stuff failed and went bankrupt. You need to keep up.

What do you think is going to happen when we pass peak oil?

Weren't we supposed to do that by 1986?
Or was it 1990?
Perhaps 1994?
Or 1999?
Maybe 2001?
Possibly 2004?
Err, maybe it's 2009?
Or possibly 2011?
Wait, I know, it was 2016!
Err, wait...

 

[BluesLegend]

OH....government mandated safety gas cans...ever try filling up your damn lawn mower or weed whacker with one of those spring loaded retarded things? Yeah guaranteed to spill gas all over the place.