Heating and AC , You're screwed

[Marion Morrison]

I go to the State Fair green display every yr to check prices,,,see if there is anything worth considering. Last yr they had the Tesla SUV and their solar array for full house is still over 20K

I remember when a VCR cost $850. Now they're what, fifty bucks? The nice thing about technology, the prices go down after time.

I bought a VCR for $5 in 1993. Ain't paying no 50 bucks for a VCR.

I think I have 2 anyway.

 

[SmokeALib]

Those front load he washers are pretty cool. The only reason I don't like 'em is because they don't get my clothes clean.

Operator error, pretty much 100% of the time.

Nope. They use lukewarm water with no agitation. Garbage.

Factually incorrect. They use whatever water you set them to use-from cold to right from the water heater-and yes, they do agitate.

Compared to my top loader, my mother's front loader does a better job washing a larger load of clothes, with half the water and one-eighth the soap. There is a reason that commercial washers are front-loaders!

No they don't.

Yeah, actually, they do...having used both! Stop blaming the washer for your own incompetence! And yeah, commercial washers ARE front-loaders!

Those front load he washers are pretty cool. The only reason I don't like 'em is because they don't get my clothes clean.

Operator error, pretty much 100% of the time.

Nope. They use lukewarm water with no agitation. Garbage.

Factually incorrect. They use whatever water you set them to use-from cold to right from the water heater-and yes, they do agitate.

Compared to my top loader, my mother's front loader does a better job washing a larger load of clothes, with half the water and one-eighth the soap. There is a reason that commercial washers are front-loaders!

No they don't. The hot water mixes with the cold water before it enters the machine. My brother in law repairs these things for a living and he installed a valve in the machine so hot water goes straight in. Government mandated efficiency bullshit.

Still factually incorrect. When set to "hot", my mother's washer fills with only hot water. (I have checked...for the wash, there is zero flow from the cold water hose.) Having said that, she rarely uses a hot wash, and I never do.

Those front load he washers are pretty cool. The only reason I don't like 'em is because they don't get my clothes clean.

Operator error, pretty much 100% of the time.

Nope. They use lukewarm water with no agitation. Garbage.

Factually incorrect. They use whatever water you set them to use-from cold to right from the water heater-and yes, they do agitate.

Compared to my top loader, my mother's front loader does a better job washing a larger load of clothes, with half the water and one-eighth the soap. There is a reason that commercial washers are front-loaders!

No they don't.

Yeah, actually, they do...having used both! Stop blaming the washer for your own incompetence! And yeah, commercial washers ARE front-loaders!

Those front load he washers are pretty cool. The only reason I don't like 'em is because they don't get my clothes clean.

Operator error, pretty much 100% of the time.

Nope. They use lukewarm water with no agitation. Garbage.

Factually incorrect. They use whatever water you set them to use-from cold to right from the water heater-and yes, they do agitate.

Compared to my top loader, my mother's front loader does a better job washing a larger load of clothes, with half the water and one-eighth the soap. There is a reason that commercial washers are front-loaders!

No they don't. The hot water mixes with the cold water before it enters the machine. My brother in law repairs these things for a living and he installed a valve in the machine so hot water goes straight in. Government mandated efficiency bullshit.

Still factually incorrect. When set to "hot", my mother's washer fills with only hot water. (I have checked...for the wash, there is zero flow from the cold water hose.) Having said that, she rarely uses a hot wash, and I never do.

You lie. One of these days, when you stop using your mommy's washer and you get your very own, you'll see those HE washers are complete shit.

 

[Billo_Really]

Not in the next 100 years.

Unfortunately.

 

[Billo_Really]

None of those work for BASE LOAD.

Then you need to stop eating so much bran.

 

[Cellblock2429]

I didn't even realize...

I guess this January the government , with their "efficiency" BS , made 14 SEER heating and air conditioning the minimum which can be sold in the U.S.

One of the manufacturers told us they are barley scraping by making 14 SEER equipment, if the government raises the minimum to 15 SEER (which I think they are already planning to do) then we're talking about high efficiency motors. In my area high efficiency motors average $1500.

The high efficiency equipment designers have a habit of placing several circuit boards into one system. circuit boards are $400 to $800. Many go out without any reason.

Like everything else, the government is going to save you 5 bucks on your monthly bill , but send the money back to the economy with high repair costs.





By-the-way, I heard something about a new refrigerant for cars, R1234 , currently selling for $1000 per jug

Have faith. Trump hopes to abolish the EPA and a/c manufactures and other industries can do anything they want to the environment and long after Trump is gone we will be paying the price.

/---- We want Americans breathing freon when they walk outside. It's our secret plan to conquering the world. Bwhahaha bwhahaha bwhahaha

 

[Manonthestreet]

I go to the State Fair green display every yr to check prices,,,see if there is anything worth considering. Last yr they had the Tesla SUV and their solar array for full house is still over 20K

I remember when a VCR cost $850. Now they're what, fifty bucks? The nice thing about technology, the prices go down after time.

I bought a VCR for $5 in 1993. Ain't paying no 50 bucks for a VCR.

I think I have 2 anyway.

So in another 20 yrs it might be affordable

 

[Billo_Really]

Not really because solar panels do not last forever. They need to be replaced as well. Up north, you are not going to break even ever. In most winters, the roofs are covered with snow so no sun hits the panels. They're worthless unless it's not snowing. Roof shingles will react to sun and melt the snow eventually. Solar panels will not do that.

My electric bill is about $50.00 per month. If I invested this 10K in solar panels, it would take me almost 17 years to break even, and that's if I never used one watt of electricity from the electric company and not had any repair or replacement issues with the panels. But as others have pointed out, you're not going to get the energy you need from 10K in panels.

Windmills are very disliked by local governments depending on where you live. From what I understand, they make it as difficult as they can for you to erect one, so there are many costs with that alone.

A company I used to deliver to was owned by a real lefty environmentalist. He used to ask me to shut down my truck while getting unloaded in the winter. He had a windmill to create the electricity he needed to run his shop. One day I made a delivery and the windmill was gone. I was told at that point, he just broke even with the investment he made. I seen him a week later and asked how the windmill repair was going. He just put his hands in the air like he was getting robbed and gunpoint, pushed his arms downwards towards the table, and just said "AHHHH!"

That was about six or seven years ago, and the windmill never came back.

Aw, that sucks, dude!

Translation: I don't have an argument against this point.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Operator error, pretty much 100% of the time.

Nope. They use lukewarm water with no agitation. Garbage.

Factually incorrect. They use whatever water you set them to use-from cold to right from the water heater-and yes, they do agitate.

Compared to my top loader, my mother's front loader does a better job washing a larger load of clothes, with half the water and one-eighth the soap. There is a reason that commercial washers are front-loaders!

No they don't.

Yeah, actually, they do...having used both! Stop blaming the washer for your own incompetence! And yeah, commercial washers ARE front-loaders!

Operator error, pretty much 100% of the time.

Nope. They use lukewarm water with no agitation. Garbage.

Factually incorrect. They use whatever water you set them to use-from cold to right from the water heater-and yes, they do agitate.

Compared to my top loader, my mother's front loader does a better job washing a larger load of clothes, with half the water and one-eighth the soap. There is a reason that commercial washers are front-loaders!

No they don't. The hot water mixes with the cold water before it enters the machine. My brother in law repairs these things for a living and he installed a valve in the machine so hot water goes straight in. Government mandated efficiency bullshit.

Still factually incorrect. When set to "hot", my mother's washer fills with only hot water. (I have checked...for the wash, there is zero flow from the cold water hose.) Having said that, she rarely uses a hot wash, and I never do.

Operator error, pretty much 100% of the time.

Nope. They use lukewarm water with no agitation. Garbage.

Factually incorrect. They use whatever water you set them to use-from cold to right from the water heater-and yes, they do agitate.

Compared to my top loader, my mother's front loader does a better job washing a larger load of clothes, with half the water and one-eighth the soap. There is a reason that commercial washers are front-loaders!

No they don't.

Yeah, actually, they do...having used both! Stop blaming the washer for your own incompetence! And yeah, commercial washers ARE front-loaders!

Operator error, pretty much 100% of the time.

Nope. They use lukewarm water with no agitation. Garbage.

Factually incorrect. They use whatever water you set them to use-from cold to right from the water heater-and yes, they do agitate.

Compared to my top loader, my mother's front loader does a better job washing a larger load of clothes, with half the water and one-eighth the soap. There is a reason that commercial washers are front-loaders!

No they don't. The hot water mixes with the cold water before it enters the machine. My brother in law repairs these things for a living and he installed a valve in the machine so hot water goes straight in. Government mandated efficiency bullshit.

Still factually incorrect. When set to "hot", my mother's washer fills with only hot water. (I have checked...for the wash, there is zero flow from the cold water hose.) Having said that, she rarely uses a hot wash, and I never do.

You lie. One of these days, when you stop using your mommy's washer and you get your very own, you'll see those HE washers are complete shit.

I already learned from a friend whose wife talked him into a new HE setup.

Only lasted 3 -something years, he got him a top-loader.

 

[Billo_Really]

This is true, but only if sales are huge. Most all technology came down in price because of mass sales: cell phones, big screen televisions, computers, internet. But these are things people really wanted. Not many want more expensive less reliable energy.

That's why we gotta get everyone on board! Rally the troops! Buy green!

 

[Billo_Really]

I bought a VCR for $5 in 1993. Ain't paying no 50 bucks for a VCR.

I think I have 2 anyway.

I couldn't even hock mine. I took it to a pawn shop and they didn't even want it.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Operator error, pretty much 100% of the time.

Nope. They use lukewarm water with no agitation. Garbage.

Factually incorrect. They use whatever water you set them to use-from cold to right from the water heater-and yes, they do agitate.

Compared to my top loader, my mother's front loader does a better job washing a larger load of clothes, with half the water and one-eighth the soap. There is a reason that commercial washers are front-loaders!

No they don't.

Yeah, actually, they do...having used both! Stop blaming the washer for your own incompetence! And yeah, commercial washers ARE front-loaders!

Operator error, pretty much 100% of the time.

Nope. They use lukewarm water with no agitation. Garbage.

Factually incorrect. They use whatever water you set them to use-from cold to right from the water heater-and yes, they do agitate.

Compared to my top loader, my mother's front loader does a better job washing a larger load of clothes, with half the water and one-eighth the soap. There is a reason that commercial washers are front-loaders!

No they don't. The hot water mixes with the cold water before it enters the machine. My brother in law repairs these things for a living and he installed a valve in the machine so hot water goes straight in. Government mandated efficiency bullshit.

Still factually incorrect. When set to "hot", my mother's washer fills with only hot water. (I have checked...for the wash, there is zero flow from the cold water hose.) Having said that, she rarely uses a hot wash, and I never do.

Operator error, pretty much 100% of the time.

Nope. They use lukewarm water with no agitation. Garbage.

Factually incorrect. They use whatever water you set them to use-from cold to right from the water heater-and yes, they do agitate.

Compared to my top loader, my mother's front loader does a better job washing a larger load of clothes, with half the water and one-eighth the soap. There is a reason that commercial washers are front-loaders!

No they don't.

Yeah, actually, they do...having used both! Stop blaming the washer for your own incompetence! And yeah, commercial washers ARE front-loaders!

Operator error, pretty much 100% of the time.

Nope. They use lukewarm water with no agitation. Garbage.

Factually incorrect. They use whatever water you set them to use-from cold to right from the water heater-and yes, they do agitate.

Compared to my top loader, my mother's front loader does a better job washing a larger load of clothes, with half the water and one-eighth the soap. There is a reason that commercial washers are front-loaders!

No they don't. The hot water mixes with the cold water before it enters the machine. My brother in law repairs these things for a living and he installed a valve in the machine so hot water goes straight in. Government mandated efficiency bullshit.

Still factually incorrect. When set to "hot", my mother's washer fills with only hot water. (I have checked...for the wash, there is zero flow from the cold water hose.) Having said that, she rarely uses a hot wash, and I never do.

You lie. One of these days, when you stop using your mommy's washer and you get your very own, you'll see those HE washers are complete shit.

You stupid. You did not read the posts. One of these days, when you finish elementary school, you might learn to use a washing machine!

And yet again: there is a reason that commercial washers are front-loaders!

 

[Jarlaxle]

I already learned from a friend whose wife talked him into a new HE setup.

Only lasted 3 -something years, he got him a top-loader.

He wasn't bright enough to figure out how to use it, either, then?

OK, I admit it: if you are REALLY STUPID, you should not use a HE washing machine.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

This is true, but only if sales are huge. Most all technology came down in price because of mass sales: cell phones, big screen televisions, computers, internet. But these are things people really wanted. Not many want more expensive less reliable energy.

That's why we gotta get everyone on board! Rally the troops! Buy green!

No. If a product is worth buying, it doesn't need "everybody on board" or government subsidies. A good product sells itself. Products that can't sell should be discarded and put to pasture.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Not really because solar panels do not last forever. They need to be replaced as well. Up north, you are not going to break even ever. In most winters, the roofs are covered with snow so no sun hits the panels. They're worthless unless it's not snowing. Roof shingles will react to sun and melt the snow eventually. Solar panels will not do that.

My electric bill is about $50.00 per month. If I invested this 10K in solar panels, it would take me almost 17 years to break even, and that's if I never used one watt of electricity from the electric company and not had any repair or replacement issues with the panels. But as others have pointed out, you're not going to get the energy you need from 10K in panels.

Windmills are very disliked by local governments depending on where you live. From what I understand, they make it as difficult as they can for you to erect one, so there are many costs with that alone.

A company I used to deliver to was owned by a real lefty environmentalist. He used to ask me to shut down my truck while getting unloaded in the winter. He had a windmill to create the electricity he needed to run his shop. One day I made a delivery and the windmill was gone. I was told at that point, he just broke even with the investment he made. I seen him a week later and asked how the windmill repair was going. He just put his hands in the air like he was getting robbed and gunpoint, pushed his arms downwards towards the table, and just said "AHHHH!"

That was about six or seven years ago, and the windmill never came back.

Aw, that sucks, dude!

Translation: I don't have an argument against this point.

I made the argument quite clearly, but I can't stop a person who wishes to put the palms of their hands against their ears and sing aloud when the truth is told.

Some day there will be real alternatives to fossil fuel, but that day is not near yet. It may not be in our lifetime either. But when it does come, it will be like any other new product that makes sense to buy. It won't need government to shove it up our ass. We will buy it willingly.

 

[Billo_Really]

No. If a product is worth buying, it doesn't need "everybody on board" or government subsidies. A good product sells itself. Products that can't sell should be discarded and put to pasture.

I was being facetious.

 

[Billo_Really]

I made the argument quite clearly, but I can't stop a person who wishes to put the palms of their hands against their ears and sing aloud when the truth is told.

Some day there will be real alternatives to fossil fuel, but that day is not near yet. It may not be in our lifetime either. But when it does come, it will be like any other new product that makes sense to buy. It won't need government to shove it up our ass. We will buy it willingly.

I thought you made a good point, but you can go fuck yourself if you think I'm the Vancom Lady.

 

[owebo]

This is true, but only if sales are huge. Most all technology came down in price because of mass sales: cell phones, big screen televisions, computers, internet. But these are things people really wanted. Not many want more expensive less reliable energy.

That's why we gotta get everyone on board! Rally the troops! Buy green!

I just bought a 5 gallon flush toilet....it's white though....

 

[Billo_Really]

I just bought a 5 gallon flush toilet....it's white though....

So admit it, you're a water closet racist?

 

[owebo]

I just bought a 5 gallon flush toilet....it's white though....

So admit it, you're a water closet racist?

I shit brown....is that bad?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I made the argument quite clearly, but I can't stop a person who wishes to put the palms of their hands against their ears and sing aloud when the truth is told.

Some day there will be real alternatives to fossil fuel, but that day is not near yet. It may not be in our lifetime either. But when it does come, it will be like any other new product that makes sense to buy. It won't need government to shove it up our ass. We will buy it willingly.

I thought you made a good point, but you can go fuck yourself if you think I'm the Vancom Lady.

WTF is the Vancom lady?

The reason you say I can go "fuck myself" is because you have no real counter argument. Don't feel bad, it's very typical of liberals.