Heroin Crisis Solved; Or Not; Our Choice

[LordBrownTrout]

Its at least worth a try in legalizing marijuana. We did this same thing with prohibition and it didn't work.

 

[bendog]

You lost me at the "liberal" thingee. LOL

You think conservatives are responsible for illegal/legalization of MJ?

You think there's a tie to oxy abuse and pot? LOL Yes, you DO.

 

[bendog]

Its at least worth a try in legalizing marijuana. We did this same thing with prohibition and it didn't work.

I'm not sure about legalization. I'm against locking up people for pot, of course. But what is being sold today is not the Mexican ditch weed of youth. It's not precisely like booze, which kids can abuse ... as can adults. But unless you die of alcohol poisoning, there's a limit as to how much harm you selfinflict in booze. Most of us moderated after a few series of puking. I'm not sure letting people sell the most THC laden weed possible is a great idea.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Make drug preventative programs like alcohol and tobacco. Tobacco use has been on the decline for years. Same will happen with marijuana once its legal and the tax profits are used for drug awareness and how to prevent becoming a user.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

So you are just too damn lazy to do anything to gather real information to support what you feel.

Hey, go back and look at the OP. I've edited it.

You buried the lead. Why you didn’t provide that link to begin with I will never understand. However that still does not lead us to your conclusion that enforcing federal marijuana laws will necessarily decrease heroin use. Considering that marijuana is much bulkier than pot, the Mexican suppliers may very well prefer to push the heroine, even though they may have only stumbled into the heroine market due to the decrease in their pot market.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Its at least worth a try in legalizing marijuana. We did this same thing with prohibition and it didn't work.

I'm not sure about legalization. I'm against locking up people for pot, of course. But what is being sold today is not the Mexican ditch weed of youth. It's not precisely like booze, which kids can abuse ... as can adults. But unless you die of alcohol poisoning, there's a limit as to how much harm you selfinflict in booze. Most of us moderated after a few series of puking. I'm not sure letting people sell the most THC laden weed possible is a great idea.

I agree with that and hadn't even thought of the ditch weed vs todays highly THC laden weed. Good point.

 

[whitehall]

The left's answer: open the borders and legalize heroin and damn the Country.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Measuring America’s changing drug habits, on the border

Timeline:

1. Mexico imported most of the nation's MJ. The fed had a delicate balance with the Mexican economy, of which pot exports were a huge part of. This consisted of strategically dialing in suppressing the influx & balancing the market. The cartels also had a delicate balance among themselves, keeping the supply/demand ratio in balance. Pretty much like how commercial merchants of all trades form unions to settle on prices so all can benefit.

2. Pot illegally is "legalized" (against federal law) in the US, state by state, using "medicine" as the shoehorn to ultimate free for all. Unregulated medicine is as illegal as recreational medicine of any Schedule 1 FDA regulated substance.

3. The price of pot and its delicate economic balance re: Mexico begins to plummet. Mexican cartels (and Mexico itself) take what is the equivalent of a baseball bat to the nuts.

4. During the parallel timeline, cartel wars and beheadings begin as competition for that dying market increased. Then the reality of the futility even of that struggle sets in as Mexican-MJ economy gets its last coffin nails...as more and more states illegally-legalize.

5. Then Mexican pot cartels switch to a much more lucrative market, one much more addictive and deadly: opium.

6. The US social situation worsens as the heroin epidemic sweeps the nation "from unknown causes all of a sudden!" Law enforcement is overburdened. Heroin quickly renders addicts derelict dependent criminals and thieves. The social welfare rolls begin to swell, taxing an already precarious economy, law enforcement, jail and prison budgets. Insurance companies take more and more hits as more and more petty and serious crime results in property theft to maintain the blind and strong urge of the heroin addicts.

(Russia/China, are you giggling right now? )

So people would say that this illegal legalizing has no repercussions. I beg to differ. Even when they agree they say "well what are you going to do about it? So many states now have "legal" pot" (while it remains on Schedule 1).

Solution will be tough, but actually simple. It will require brass nuggs on behalf of the fed. Simply pass a resolution in Congress that shuts off federal funding to states that have defied federal law. If they fail to re-criminalize pot, they don't get money until they comply. Period.

At the various state levels, look for heads to roll to blame the chaos on with pot laws. State by state a person or group of people (usually the sitting AG at the time) responsible for screening newly proposed laws, either by legislature or referendum, for compliance with federal law FIRST before they were voted on, are weeded out and brought into the limelight for questioning. Their failure of duty will be the culprit. Adjustments can be made before this becomes a complete US nightmare. Dust will settle and life will go on.

The US officials can strike old deals with Mexican cartels in exchange for reduction or elimination of heroin imports. And, life can go back to normal. People wanting to be rebellious can turn back to pot, and forego heroin, the more deadly of the two Mexican imports. The jails and social service programs can breathe a sigh of relief.

Or, we can accept an escalating heroin problem, economic assault from derelict addicts increasing exponentially, and a real threat to our national security. Our choice. The liberals responsible for this downward spiral are clearly incapable of thinking or understanding even the rudiments of delicate economies of the US and Mexico and how they interplay. Pissing off Mexico at our southern doorstep, with our enemies abroad drooling, is not a good plan for national security. Liberals meanwhile do all they can to keep that permeable border with even more and more holes. This is just simply asinine. Smarter minds need to bypass the kicking and screaming and rip the bandaid off.

Here's the approach lawmakers with brains need to take addressing the liberal outcry
vv

Correlation does not equal causation, and in this case, you're imagining the correlation. 80 percent of heroin addicts in the US had prescription pain killer problems before they got hooked on heroin, and the opioid epidemic started back in the '90's. Predates the string of recreational legalizations by at least a few months, I'd say.

 

[bendog]

So you are just too damn lazy to do anything to gather real information to support what you feel.

Hey, go back and look at the OP. I've edited it.

You buried the lead. Why you didn’t provide that link to begin with I will never understand. However that still does not lead us to your conclusion that enforcing federal marijuana laws will necessarily decrease heroin use. Considering that marijuana is much bulkier than pot, the Mexican suppliers may very well prefer to push the heroine, even though they may have only stumbled into the heroine market due to the decrease in their pot market.

Among the problems of the OP is that the oxy crisis led to the heroin crisis. People took oxy legally for more or less chronic pain. Prescribing it like that was malpractice.

I don't think pot's shown much use in pain management .... outside maybe migraines and of course to counteract side effects of chemo.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Seriously, and here I intentionally want to try to derail the thread into reality, I understand that people are getting addicted to opioids because they got a prescript legally because of pain, and the docs who wrote them should have their medical licenses revoked but we know that won't happen. But didn't people realize that taking oxy and stuff was dangerous? Pain is not new.

The drug companies played their part. The Mexican cartels took advantage of existing addictions and are creating new ones with their new market.

Their new market? There is no new market. If the price drops out of the thing that you're selling, and you're then forced to start selling a new product, that's not a "new market" opening up for you. The market they're working with has been available and growing since prior to the Mexican cartels taking power.

 

[The Original Tree]

Most of the country is clueless that Islamic Radicals are allied with Mexican Drug Cartels and are working with them to flood the US with Heroin and Meth.

Let's not forget that Mexico was going to ally with Nazi Germany and attack us in WWII but we exposed that plan, and Mexico chickened out once they lost the element of surprise.

Mexico is NOT OUR FRIEND.

Also it goes without saying that Mexico and Islamic Radicals that they work with both Manufacture Counterfit Oxys and other dangerous drugs. They'll even lace Xanax with carfentanil.

So these days, if you want to be a drug addict, you are essentially playing Russian Roulette even if what you are doing is strictly pills.

If you really want to know where the Next Great War will be, look no further than South of The Border.

It's either Build a Damn Wall, or go to War with Mexico and their Islamic Allies working with the Mexican Drug Cartels.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Seriously, and here I intentionally want to try to derail the thread into reality, I understand that people are getting addicted to opioids because they got a prescript legally because of pain, and the docs who wrote them should have their medical licenses revoked but we know that won't happen. But didn't people realize that taking oxy and stuff was dangerous? Pain is not new.

The drug companies played their part. The Mexican cartels took advantage of existing addictions and are creating new ones with their new market.

Their new market? There is no new market. If the price drops out of the thing that you're selling, and you're then forced to start selling a new product, that's not a "new market" opening up for you. The market they're working with has been available and growing since prior to the Mexican cartels taking power.

Symantecs- don’t get your tail in a knot. The point is the drug producers are switching from pot to heroine.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Seriously, and here I intentionally want to try to derail the thread into reality, I understand that people are getting addicted to opioids because they got a prescript legally because of pain, and the docs who wrote them should have their medical licenses revoked but we know that won't happen. But didn't people realize that taking oxy and stuff was dangerous? Pain is not new.

The drug companies played their part. The Mexican cartels took advantage of existing addictions and are creating new ones with their new market.

Their new market? There is no new market. If the price drops out of the thing that you're selling, and you're then forced to start selling a new product, that's not a "new market" opening up for you. The market they're working with has been available and growing since prior to the Mexican cartels taking power.

Symantecs- don’t get your tail in a knot. The point is the drug producers are switching from pot to heroine.

Except that it's not just semantics. There's a huge difference between producers switching because they're forced and switching because a new market has opened up, and the implications in question play directly into whether or not legalizing marijuana has a causal relationship to the heroin epidemic.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Seriously, and here I intentionally want to try to derail the thread into reality, I understand that people are getting addicted to opioids because they got a prescript legally because of pain, and the docs who wrote them should have their medical licenses revoked but we know that won't happen. But didn't people realize that taking oxy and stuff was dangerous? Pain is not new.

The drug companies played their part. The Mexican cartels took advantage of existing addictions and are creating new ones with their new market.

Their new market? There is no new market. If the price drops out of the thing that you're selling, and you're then forced to start selling a new product, that's not a "new market" opening up for you. The market they're working with has been available and growing since prior to the Mexican cartels taking power.

Symantecs- don’t get your tail in a knot. The point is the drug producers are switching from pot to heroine.

Except that it's not just semantics. There's a huge difference between producers switching because they're forced and switching because a new market has opened up, and the implications in question play directly into whether or not legalizing marijuana has a causal relationship to the heroin epidemic.

Ok, so you’re one of those people who can’t accept it when someone concedes a point. You have to beat your chest and say I AM RIGHT. Common affliction among those with low self esteem. I acknowledged that the pot growers are switching from pot to heroine and likely because of legal pot. What it doesn’t prove is enforcing the federal laws on pot will cause the a reduction of heroine.

 

[Silhouette]

Ok, so you’re one of those people who can’t accept it when someone concedes a point. You have to beat your chest and say I AM RIGHT. Common affliction among those with low self esteem. I acknowledged that the pot growers are switching from pot to heroine and likely because of legal pot. What it doesn’t prove is enforcing the federal laws on pot will cause the a reduction of heroine.

Well thanks for conceding. I guess the link and quote in the OP helped a bit.

The reduction of heroin imported would have to be negotiated with the cartels. I suppose the fed could promise them "x" amounts of blind eye enforcement like in the old days for a guaranteed reduction in heroin imports? Dunno. I just know the good old boys know how to handle this stuff behind closed doors, and for the sake of our country, I really wish they would. The heroin situation is completely out of control and getting worse by the month.

 

[danielpalos]

Measuring America’s changing drug habits, on the border

SAN YSIDRO, Calif. — Mexican traffickers are sending a flood of cheap heroin and methamphetamine across the U.S. border, the latest drug seizure statistics show, in a new sign that America’s marijuana decriminalization trend is upending the North American narcotics trade.

The amount of cannabis seized by U.S. federal, state and local officers along the boundary with Mexico has fallen 37 percent since 2011, a period during which American marijuana consumers have increasingly turned to the more potent, higher-grade domestic varieties cultivated under legal and quasi-legal protections in more than two dozen U.S. states.

Timeline:

1. Mexico imported most of the nation's MJ. The fed had a delicate balance with the Mexican economy, of which pot exports were a huge part of. This consisted of strategically dialing in suppressing the influx & balancing the market. The cartels also had a delicate balance among themselves, keeping the supply/demand ratio in balance. Pretty much like how commercial merchants of all trades form unions to settle on prices so all can benefit.

2. Pot illegally is "legalized" (against federal law) in the US, state by state, using "medicine" as the shoehorn to ultimate free for all. Unregulated medicine is as illegal as recreational medicine of any Schedule 1 FDA regulated substance.

3. The price of pot and its delicate economic balance re: Mexico begins to plummet. Mexican cartels (and Mexico itself) take what is the equivalent of a baseball bat to the nuts.

4. During the parallel timeline, cartel wars and beheadings begin as competition for that dying market increased. Then the reality of the futility even of that struggle sets in as Mexican-MJ economy gets its last coffin nails...as more and more states illegally-legalize.

5. Then Mexican pot cartels switch to a much more lucrative market, one much more addictive and deadly: opium.

6. The US social situation worsens as the heroin epidemic sweeps the nation "from unknown causes all of a sudden!" Law enforcement is overburdened. Heroin quickly renders addicts derelict dependent criminals and thieves. The social welfare rolls begin to swell, taxing an already precarious economy, law enforcement, jail and prison budgets. Insurance companies take more and more hits as more and more petty and serious crime results in property theft to maintain the blind and strong urge of the heroin addicts.

(Russia/China, are you giggling right now? )

So people would say that this illegal legalizing has no repercussions. I beg to differ. Even when they agree they say "well what are you going to do about it? So many states now have "legal" pot" (while it remains on Schedule 1).

Solution will be tough, but actually simple. It will require brass nuggs on behalf of the fed. Simply pass a resolution in Congress that shuts off federal funding to states that have defied federal law. If they fail to re-criminalize pot, they don't get money until they comply. Period.

At the various state levels, look for heads to roll to blame the chaos on with pot laws. State by state a person or group of people (usually the sitting AG at the time) responsible for screening newly proposed laws, either by legislature or referendum, for compliance with federal law FIRST before they were voted on, are weeded out and brought into the limelight for questioning. Their failure of duty will be the culprit. Adjustments can be made before this becomes a complete US nightmare. Dust will settle and life will go on.

The US officials can strike old deals with Mexican cartels in exchange for reduction or elimination of heroin imports. And, life can go back to normal. People wanting to be rebellious can turn back to pot, and forego heroin, the more deadly of the two Mexican imports. The jails and social service programs can breathe a sigh of relief.

Or, we can accept an escalating heroin problem, economic assault from derelict addicts increasing exponentially, and a real threat to our national security. Our choice. The liberals responsible for this downward spiral are clearly incapable of thinking or understanding even the rudiments of delicate economies of the US and Mexico and how they interplay. Pissing off Mexico at our southern doorstep, with our enemies abroad drooling, is not a good plan for national security. Liberals meanwhile do all they can to keep that permeable border with even more and more holes. This is just simply asinine. Smarter minds need to bypass the kicking and screaming and rip the bandaid off.

Here's the approach lawmakers with brains need to take addressing the liberal outcry
vv

I would rather smoke pot than use heroin.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Ok, so you’re one of those people who can’t accept it when someone concedes a point. You have to beat your chest and say I AM RIGHT. Common affliction among those with low self esteem. I acknowledged that the pot growers are switching from pot to heroine and likely because of legal pot. What it doesn’t prove is enforcing the federal laws on pot will cause the a reduction of heroine.

Well thanks for conceding. I guess the link and quote in the OP helped a bit.

The reduction of heroin imported would have to be negotiated with the cartels. I suppose the fed could promise them "x" amounts of blind eye enforcement like in the old days for a guaranteed reduction in heroin imports? Dunno. I just know the good old boys know how to handle this stuff behind closed doors, and for the sake of our country, I really wish they would. The heroin situation is completely out of control and getting worse by the month.

Again, a concession that heroine use is up due to producers switching from pot to heroine does not mean enforcing federal marijuana laws will create a reduction of heroine use. New heroine users are not going to just stop using because pot becomes illegal again, and where there is a demand there will be a corresponding supply. You maybe able to convince some poppy growers to switch back to pot, but you can bet your life that others will fill the void created in heroine production.

 

[Silhouette]

Again, a concession that heroine use is up due to producers switching from pot to heroine does not mean enforcing federal marijuana laws will create a reduction of heroine use. New heroine users are not going to just stop using because pot becomes illegal again, and where there is a demand there will be a corresponding supply. You maybe able to convince some poppy growers to switch back to pot, but you can bet your life that others will fill the void created in heroine production.

So...just give up and do nothing?

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Again, a concession that heroine use is up due to producers switching from pot to heroine does not mean enforcing federal marijuana laws will create a reduction of heroine use. New heroine users are not going to just stop using because pot becomes illegal again, and where there is a demand there will be a corresponding supply. You maybe able to convince some poppy growers to switch back to pot, but you can bet your life that others will fill the void created in heroine production.

So...just give up and do nothing?

Oh brother! That’s what you think I mean? Give up and do nothing? All I am saying is that you’re not going to keep people from using heroine by letting Mexicans have the pot market.

 

[bendog]

Again, a concession that heroine use is up due to producers switching from pot to heroine does not mean enforcing federal marijuana laws will create a reduction of heroine use. New heroine users are not going to just stop using because pot becomes illegal again, and where there is a demand there will be a corresponding supply. You maybe able to convince some poppy growers to switch back to pot, but you can bet your life that others will fill the void created in heroine production.

So...just give up and do nothing?

Oh brother! That’s what you think I mean? Give up and do nothing? All I am saying is that you’re not going to keep people from using heroine by letting Mexicans have the pot market.

We could demand the potus and gop support funding treatment for those addicts trying to quit. If one is addicted to heroin, one tends to quit or die. Either avenue is effective in removing an addict from society. There also has to be a plan to keep more people from becoming addicts. And from my recollection of the early 70s, heroin addiction wasn't seen as glamorous. Cocaine caught on. But that wasn't about pain management. Rather it was just the recreational drug of the day. I'm told it's still popular. (-: