Heroin Crisis Solved; Or Not; Our Choice

[BluesLegend]

Mexico is our friend, they flood our country with illegal drugs using illegals as mules. Its so bad National Geographic filmed a documentary on the problem.

 

[debbiedowner]

can you provide the data of your "precise parallel timeline"? and not just go with "because I said so"?

Other than memory, yeah, any of us could by using Google and a notepad by our computer. My point being, why haven't officials done this?

If you look in the OP, I've added a link to WaPO and a quote.

If you go back 50 years there was a great percentage of war heroes coming back that were addicted. It has gone on for many years and social media brings it to light and everyone goes, Goddamn we got an epidemic on our hands better stamp it out. The government has known about as well as doctors. So don't give me this shit it has all started in the past few years.

 

[danielpalos]

Again, a concession that heroine use is up due to producers switching from pot to heroine does not mean enforcing federal marijuana laws will create a reduction of heroine use. New heroine users are not going to just stop using because pot becomes illegal again, and where there is a demand there will be a corresponding supply. You maybe able to convince some poppy growers to switch back to pot, but you can bet your life that others will fill the void created in heroine production.

So...just give up and do nothing?

I thought it was an Individual problem not an Institutional problem?

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Seriously, and here I intentionally want to try to derail the thread into reality, I understand that people are getting addicted to opioids because they got a prescript legally because of pain, and the docs who wrote them should have their medical licenses revoked but we know that won't happen. But didn't people realize that taking oxy and stuff was dangerous? Pain is not new.

The drug companies played their part. The Mexican cartels took advantage of existing addictions and are creating new ones with their new market.

Their new market? There is no new market. If the price drops out of the thing that you're selling, and you're then forced to start selling a new product, that's not a "new market" opening up for you. The market they're working with has been available and growing since prior to the Mexican cartels taking power.

Symantecs- don’t get your tail in a knot. The point is the drug producers are switching from pot to heroine.

Except that it's not just semantics. There's a huge difference between producers switching because they're forced and switching because a new market has opened up, and the implications in question play directly into whether or not legalizing marijuana has a causal relationship to the heroin epidemic.

Ok, so you’re one of those people who can’t accept it when someone concedes a point. You have to beat your chest and say I AM RIGHT. Common affliction among those with low self esteem. I acknowledged that the pot growers are switching from pot to heroine and likely because of legal pot. What it doesn’t prove is enforcing the federal laws on pot will cause the a reduction of heroine.

Lol! Who told you that dismissing someone's point as a matter of semantics was a form of concession? Now you're gonna act like you were agreeing and then psychoanalyze me as though I'm just disagreeing to rub it in? Wowzers. While we're on the topic of low self esteem, what does that level of passive aggressiveness imply about yours?

 

[BuckToothMoron]

The drug companies played their part. The Mexican cartels took advantage of existing addictions and are creating new ones with their new market.

Their new market? There is no new market. If the price drops out of the thing that you're selling, and you're then forced to start selling a new product, that's not a "new market" opening up for you. The market they're working with has been available and growing since prior to the Mexican cartels taking power.

Symantecs- don’t get your tail in a knot. The point is the drug producers are switching from pot to heroine.

Except that it's not just semantics. There's a huge difference between producers switching because they're forced and switching because a new market has opened up, and the implications in question play directly into whether or not legalizing marijuana has a causal relationship to the heroin epidemic.

Ok, so you’re one of those people who can’t accept it when someone concedes a point. You have to beat your chest and say I AM RIGHT. Common affliction among those with low self esteem. I acknowledged that the pot growers are switching from pot to heroine and likely because of legal pot. What it doesn’t prove is enforcing the federal laws on pot will cause the a reduction of heroine.

Lol! Who told you that dismissing someone's point as a matter of semantics was a form of concession? Now you're gonna act like you were agreeing and then psychoanalyze me as though I'm just disagreeing to rub it in? Wowzers. While we're on the topic of low self esteem, what does that level of passive aggressiveness imply about yours?

Ok sport, you win. Feel better?

 

[Silhouette]

If you go back 50 years there was a great percentage of war heroes coming back that were addicted. It has gone on for many years and social media brings it to light and everyone goes, Goddamn we got an epidemic on our hands better stamp it out. The government has known about as well as doctors. So don't give me this shit it has all started in the past few years.

The heroin problem has existed for a long time. The heroin EPIDEMIC started off exponentially right when MJ started getting "legalized" state by state.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

If you go back 50 years there was a great percentage of war heroes coming back that were addicted. It has gone on for many years and social media brings it to light and everyone goes, Goddamn we got an epidemic on our hands better stamp it out. The government has known about as well as doctors. So don't give me this shit it has all started in the past few years.

The heroin problem has existed for a long time. The heroin EPIDEMIC started off exponentially right when MJ started getting "legalized" state by state.

What link can you provide to support your claim that the epidemic coincides with marijuana legalization. My reading has led me to believe that the cause is primarily due to the enormous number of Rx opioids written by doctors, people get hooked, and when the prescription expires they resort to heroine or fentanyl.
How the opioid epidemic became America’s worst drug crisis ever, in 15 maps and charts
The epidemic has by and large been caused by the rise in opioid overdose deaths. First, opioid painkiller overdoses began to rise, as doctors began to fill out a record number of prescriptions for the drugs in an attempt to treat patients’ pain conditions. Then, people hooked on painkillers began to move over to heroin as they or their sources of drugs lost their prescriptions. And recently, more people have begun moving to fentanyl, an opioid that’s even more potent and cheaper than heroin. The result is a deadly epidemic that so far shows no signs of slowing down.

It appears the epidemic is also effecting whites disproportionately more than other races.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Their new market? There is no new market. If the price drops out of the thing that you're selling, and you're then forced to start selling a new product, that's not a "new market" opening up for you. The market they're working with has been available and growing since prior to the Mexican cartels taking power.

Symantecs- don’t get your tail in a knot. The point is the drug producers are switching from pot to heroine.

Except that it's not just semantics. There's a huge difference between producers switching because they're forced and switching because a new market has opened up, and the implications in question play directly into whether or not legalizing marijuana has a causal relationship to the heroin epidemic.

Ok, so you’re one of those people who can’t accept it when someone concedes a point. You have to beat your chest and say I AM RIGHT. Common affliction among those with low self esteem. I acknowledged that the pot growers are switching from pot to heroine and likely because of legal pot. What it doesn’t prove is enforcing the federal laws on pot will cause the a reduction of heroine.

Lol! Who told you that dismissing someone's point as a matter of semantics was a form of concession? Now you're gonna act like you were agreeing and then psychoanalyze me as though I'm just disagreeing to rub it in? Wowzers. While we're on the topic of low self esteem, what does that level of passive aggressiveness imply about yours?

Ok sport, you win. Feel better?

Aw, cute. I was feeling fine to begin with, but your concern is appreciated, sweetie.

 

[Silhouette]

What link can you provide to support your claim that the epidemic coincides with marijuana legalization. My reading has led me to believe that the cause is primarily due to the enormous number of Rx opioids written by doctors, people get hooked, and when the prescription expires they resort to heroine or fentanyl.
How the opioid epidemic became America’s worst drug crisis ever, in 15 maps and charts

I suppose I could find one. Just as you could. But what I did was I read the WaPO article and others like it. I also know how the mafia works. The cartels in Mexico can't be different. If a crucial black market trade the mafia corners suddenly becomes legal, there will be chaos for a time, killings and so forth as the mob establishes a new market/boss-equilibrium in a different illegal good. It's the same with cartels. So my citation here is called: logical deduction.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

What link can you provide to support your claim that the epidemic coincides with marijuana legalization. My reading has led me to believe that the cause is primarily due to the enormous number of Rx opioids written by doctors, people get hooked, and when the prescription expires they resort to heroine or fentanyl.
How the opioid epidemic became America’s worst drug crisis ever, in 15 maps and charts

I suppose I could find one. Just as you could. But what I did was I read the WaPO article and others like it. I also know how the mafia works. The cartels in Mexico can't be different. If a crucial black market trade the mafia corners suddenly becomes legal, there will be chaos for a time, killings and so forth as the mob establishes a new market/boss-equilibrium in a different illegal good. It's the same with cartels. So my citation here is called: logical deduction.

In other words, it is what you think but have yet to find any facts, like dates, charts and graphs to support it. Also, be careful saying these mobs are establishing new markets. It triggers Not2Bsubjugated, and he shits and wets himself. You’ve been warned.

 

[Moonglow]

The US officials can strike old deals with Mexican cartels in exchange for reduction or elimination of heroin imports. And, life can go back to normal. People wanting to be rebellious can turn back to pot, and forego heroin, the more deadly of the two Mexican imports. The jails and social service programs can breathe a sigh of relief.

You imply that pot smokers would be heroin users if there was no heroin....You could not be more wrong in your assertion..And the logic sucks because like man it's based on a frickin' fallacy of opinion and not fact..Killer...I'll bong to that.. But heroin is like right out...

 

[Silhouette]

The US officials can strike old deals with Mexican cartels in exchange for reduction or elimination of heroin imports. And, life can go back to normal. People wanting to be rebellious can turn back to pot, and forego heroin, the more deadly of the two Mexican imports. The jails and social service programs can breathe a sigh of relief.

You imply that pot smokers would be heroin users if there was no heroin....You could not be more wrong in your assertion..And the logic sucks because like man it's based on a frickin' fallacy of opinion and not fact..Killer...I'll bong to that.. But heroin is like right out...

Let's say the heroin epidemic is spreading like wildfire. I assume some pot smokers will be swept up in it?

 

[Moonglow]

The US officials can strike old deals with Mexican cartels in exchange for reduction or elimination of heroin imports. And, life can go back to normal. People wanting to be rebellious can turn back to pot, and forego heroin, the more deadly of the two Mexican imports. The jails and social service programs can breathe a sigh of relief.

You imply that pot smokers would be heroin users if there was no heroin....You could not be more wrong in your assertion..And the logic sucks because like man it's based on a frickin' fallacy of opinion and not fact..Killer...I'll bong to that.. But heroin is like right out...

Let's say the heroin epidemic is spreading like wildfire. I assume some pot smokers will be swept up in it?

Nope not even in the same field and class....Now addicts will do whatever they can find or make...including addicts that are not addicted to drugs...

 

[Tresha91203]

Measuring America’s changing drug habits, on the border

SAN YSIDRO, Calif. — Mexican traffickers are sending a flood of cheap heroin and methamphetamine across the U.S. border, the latest drug seizure statistics show, in a new sign that America’s marijuana decriminalization trend is upending the North American narcotics trade.

The amount of cannabis seized by U.S. federal, state and local officers along the boundary with Mexico has fallen 37 percent since 2011, a period during which American marijuana consumers have increasingly turned to the more potent, higher-grade domestic varieties cultivated under legal and quasi-legal protections in more than two dozen U.S. states.

Timeline:

1. Mexico imported most of the nation's MJ. The fed had a delicate balance with the Mexican economy, of which pot exports were a huge part of. This consisted of strategically dialing in suppressing the influx & balancing the market. The cartels also had a delicate balance among themselves, keeping the supply/demand ratio in balance. Pretty much like how commercial merchants of all trades form unions to settle on prices so all can benefit.

2. Pot illegally is "legalized" (against federal law) in the US, state by state, using "medicine" as the shoehorn to ultimate free for all. Unregulated medicine is as illegal as recreational medicine of any Schedule 1 FDA regulated substance.

3. The price of pot and its delicate economic balance re: Mexico begins to plummet. Mexican cartels (and Mexico itself) take what is the equivalent of a baseball bat to the nuts.

4. During the parallel timeline, cartel wars and beheadings begin as competition for that dying market increased. Then the reality of the futility even of that struggle sets in as Mexican-MJ economy gets its last coffin nails...as more and more states illegally-legalize.

5. Then Mexican pot cartels switch to a much more lucrative market, one much more addictive and deadly: opium.

6. The US social situation worsens as the heroin epidemic sweeps the nation "from unknown causes all of a sudden!" Law enforcement is overburdened. Heroin quickly renders addicts derelict dependent criminals and thieves. The social welfare rolls begin to swell, taxing an already precarious economy, law enforcement, jail and prison budgets. Insurance companies take more and more hits as more and more petty and serious crime results in property theft to maintain the blind and strong urge of the heroin addicts.

(Russia/China, are you giggling right now? )

So people would say that this illegal legalizing has no repercussions. I beg to differ. Even when they agree they say "well what are you going to do about it? So many states now have "legal" pot" (while it remains on Schedule 1).

Solution will be tough, but actually simple. It will require brass nuggs on behalf of the fed. Simply pass a resolution in Congress that shuts off federal funding to states that have defied federal law. If they fail to re-criminalize pot, they don't get money until they comply. Period.

At the various state levels, look for heads to roll to blame the chaos on with pot laws. State by state a person or group of people (usually the sitting AG at the time) responsible for screening newly proposed laws, either by legislature or referendum, for compliance with federal law FIRST before they were voted on, are weeded out and brought into the limelight for questioning. Their failure of duty will be the culprit. Adjustments can be made before this becomes a complete US nightmare. Dust will settle and life will go on.

The US officials can strike old deals with Mexican cartels in exchange for reduction or elimination of heroin imports. And, life can go back to normal. People wanting to be rebellious can turn back to pot, and forego heroin, the more deadly of the two Mexican imports. The jails and social service programs can breathe a sigh of relief.

Or, we can accept an escalating heroin problem, economic assault from derelict addicts increasing exponentially, and a real threat to our national security. Our choice. The liberals responsible for this downward spiral are clearly incapable of thinking or understanding even the rudiments of delicate economies of the US and Mexico and how they interplay. Pissing off Mexico at our southern doorstep, with our enemies abroad drooling, is not a good plan for national security. Liberals meanwhile do all they can to keep that permeable border with even more and more holes. This is just simply asinine. Smarter minds need to bypass the kicking and screaming and rip the bandaid off.

Here's the approach lawmakers with brains need to take addressing the liberal outcry
vv

You might be correct that cartels switched merchandise, I don't know. The spike in heroin use, however, is related to the prescription opiate pill addiction "epidemic." Heroin is the cheap knockoff to those when doctors cut an addict off.

 

[Tresha91203]

Again, a concession that heroine use is up due to producers switching from pot to heroine does not mean enforcing federal marijuana laws will create a reduction of heroine use. New heroine users are not going to just stop using because pot becomes illegal again, and where there is a demand there will be a corresponding supply. You maybe able to convince some poppy growers to switch back to pot, but you can bet your life that others will fill the void created in heroine production.

So...just give up and do nothing?

Oh brother! That’s what you think I mean? Give up and do nothing? All I am saying is that you’re not going to keep people from using heroine by letting Mexicans have the pot market.

We could demand the potus and gop support funding treatment for those addicts trying to quit. If one is addicted to heroin, one tends to quit or die. Either avenue is effective in removing an addict from society. There also has to be a plan to keep more people from becoming addicts. And from my recollection of the early 70s, heroin addiction wasn't seen as glamorous. Cocaine caught on. But that wasn't about pain management. Rather it was just the recreational drug of the day. I'm told it's still popular. (-:

Heroin has been big for a long time. Kate Moss, Calvin Klein, etc glamourizing "Heroin Chic" in all the magazine's. That was late 80's, so 30 years ago.

 

[danielpalos]

The US officials can strike old deals with Mexican cartels in exchange for reduction or elimination of heroin imports. And, life can go back to normal. People wanting to be rebellious can turn back to pot, and forego heroin, the more deadly of the two Mexican imports. The jails and social service programs can breathe a sigh of relief.

You imply that pot smokers would be heroin users if there was no heroin....You could not be more wrong in your assertion..And the logic sucks because like man it's based on a frickin' fallacy of opinion and not fact..Killer...I'll bong to that.. But heroin is like right out...

Let's say the heroin epidemic is spreading like wildfire. I assume some pot smokers will be swept up in it?

Heroin really is an opioid.

 

[Syriusly]

The US officials can strike old deals with Mexican cartels in exchange for reduction or elimination of heroin imports. And, life can go back to normal. People wanting to be rebellious can turn back to pot, and forego heroin, the more deadly of the two Mexican imports. The jails and social service programs can breathe a sigh of relief.

You imply that pot smokers would be heroin users if there was no heroin....You could not be more wrong in your assertion..And the logic sucks because like man it's based on a frickin' fallacy of opinion and not fact..Killer...I'll bong to that.. But heroin is like right out...

Let's say the heroin epidemic is spreading like wildfire. I assume some pot smokers will be swept up in it?

Sure- just like some drinkers and cigarette smokers will be 'swept up in it'.

The leading cause of opioid addiction in the United States is prescription drugs- and yes- drinkers and smokers get prescriptions also.

 

[Silhouette]

The presciption drugs run out. Then the addicts turn to heroin instead of detox. The Mexican cartels have an issue with their former black market being effectively dissolved. So they provide the heroin to people who might have otherwise gotten clean.

 

[Reasonable]

I understand your theory that legalizing pot has forced producers/suppliers of pot to switch-to another product and that product is heroine. Personally, I am very skeptical that is why we are seeing an increase in heroine use. Did you contrive this theory out of thin air, or do you have any corroborating evidence? Just because pot is legalized and heroine use goes up, does not prove a cause and effect.

It’s spelled HEROIN, not HEROINE, you dunce.

 

[Syriusly]

The presciption drugs run out. Then the addicts turn to heroin instead of detox. The Mexican cartels have an issue with their former black market being effectively dissolved. So they provide the heroin to people who might have otherwise gotten clean.

The cartels provide drugs to anyone willing to pay the black market price for them.

Of course now much of the opioids are coming from China.

As far as addicts 'turning towards' detox......well I wish it was as easy as that....I am lucky enough that my family has so far escaped this plague but I have heard of the heartache of too many families dealing with addicted children.