Historically, when has a sanction worked?

[martybegan]

Again, the Left is far to busy to fight the air and their own citizens.

They have no interest in this war, I can assure you.

I noticed many of my lefty relatives becoming hawks all of a sudden, well sanction hawks, because I guess it's seen as being against Trump.

 

[Circe]

Have you seen the polls where people are in large numbers saying that they do NOT support the U.S. getting involved with troops? Do you understand a large part of that is because of the lies that have got us into useless wars in the past?

Of course, that's obvious ----- and your point is??

 

[martybegan]

There was NOTHING to win.



We wanted to take over Afghanistan and yet we condemn others for doing the same? This is why our standing in the world has fallen so far. The world understands that we are really not much different than Russia. What we did in Iraq wasn't any better than what Russia is doing. At least Russia is not creating a lie to do it.

We wanted to give Afghanistan back to "the people", the problem is "the people" is more than likely mostly on the side of the Taliban, and not the secular, or at least less hardcore muslim people we put in place.

 

[blackhawk]

Too late for Ukraine now, not too late to crunch his economy before he turns north or west to the Baltic States or Poland.

I don’t think that would stop him Putin has pretty much committed himself to this path. Sadly until he faces serious military opposition I don’t think he stops till he decides he wants to.

 

[Votto]

I noticed many of my lefty relatives becoming hawks all of a sudden, well sanction hawks, because I guess it's seen as being against Trump.

Exactly!

Take Trump out of the equation and I bet they change their tune.

That is how insane the Left has become. They really hate Trump more than Xi or Putin, and they think Trump is a bigger threat.

 

[Circe]

The world understands that we are really not much different than Russia. What we did in Iraq wasn't any better than what Russia is doing. At least Russia is not creating a lie to do it.

Sure they are. They are saying it's all Ukraine's fault for "genociding" Russians in Ukraine. And they sent in the Little Green Men pretending to be Ukrainian volunteers, as if. And on and on --- what does it matter? Every government lies so they can make war; war is natural to human beings. You simply have to learn to disbelieve all the lies and recognize the real reason for wars. (Usually, some strongman wants territory.)

 

[pknopp]

Of course, that's obvious ----- and your point is??

I thought I have been making it.

 

[pknopp]

We wanted to give Afghanistan back to "the people", the problem is "the people" is more than likely mostly on the side of the Taliban, and not the secular, or at least less hardcore muslim people we put in place.

Your argument is one of two. Neither is good. Your argument is either that we lie, or we are ignorant and incompetent

 

[martybegan]

Exactly!

Take Trump out of the equation and I bet they change their tune.

That is how insane the Left has become. They really hate Trump more than Xi or Putin, and they think Trump is a bigger threat.

I don't hate Biden, I feel sorry for him. He's been thrown into something he could have handled 10 years ago, but not now.

We can only hope the people helping him are up to the task.

 

[martybegan]

Your argument is one of two. Neither is good. Your argument is either that we lie, or we are ignorant and incompetent

We fucked up in Afghanistan, and plenty of people can take the blame.

Thing is, we aren't the first to do so, and won't be the last.

Hell England fucked up twice there.

 

[pknopp]

We fucked up in Afghanistan, and plenty of people can take the blame.

Thing is, we aren't the first to do so, and won't be the last.

Hell England fucked up twice there.

We never learn. Sad isn't it?

 

[pknopp]

I don't hate Biden, I feel sorry for him. He's been thrown into something he could have handled 10 years ago, but not now.

We can only hope the people helping him are up to the task.

Biden stood by as Obama lied us into places like Syria and Libya so it's difficult to feel too bad for him.

 

[martybegan]

We never learn. Sad isn't it?

We fixed Germany and Japan after WWII, and South Korea after the Korean war.

Iraq is teetering, but still functioning.

Grenada and Panama aren't perfect but again functioning.

Afghanistan is nation fixing hard mode.

 

[martybegan]

Biden stood by as Obama lied us into places like Syria and Libya so it's difficult to feel too bad for him.

I had nothing against the interventions in both places, the problem is we don't follow through enough.

 

[JWBooth]

What if he decides to gun for Poland, or the Baltic States, i.e. NATO members?

None of it worth a single American life or dollar.

 

[martybegan]

None of it worth a single American life or dollar.

While I understand isolationist sentiment, I find it short sighted and foolish.

 

[pknopp]

We fixed Germany and Japan after WWII, and South Korea after the Korean war.

We helped keep them down for years.

Iraq is teetering, but still functioning.

Grenada and Panama aren't perfect but again functioning.

Afghanistan is nation fixing hard mode.

Iraq was functioning before we invaded.

 

[pknopp]

I had nothing against the interventions in both places, the problem is we don't follow through enough.

There was NOTHING to follow through on. You are arguing we should have done the very thing we are condemning Putin for doing. It is NOT our place to run other countries.

 

[martybegan]

We helped keep them down for years.



Iraq was functioning before we invaded.

We built them up. We turned German militarists into Bankers and Japanese militarists into Car and tech manufacturers.

We made South Korea a 1st world country and a Military power.

Iraq was on life support because we didn't finish the job in the first gulf war.

 

[JWBooth]

While I understand isolationist sentiment, I find it short sighted and foolish.

Nothing isolationist about setting a very high bar for risking blood and treasure