Hooray! For Hol-y-wood.

[teddyearp]

the avowed intention of Zionism was to deprive all non-Jews in Palestine of land, liberty and life.

Wrong. The intention of Zionism was to create a Jewish homeland yes. But no where does it say that it is to deprive all the non-Jews of land, liberty, and life. All you have to do is visit the country to know the truth of that.

 

[rhodescholar]

The Israelis should end their occupation, actually. That would be a start towards peace.

What "occupation" is that? And why would that change the insane arab muslim refusal to tolerate the sovereignty of anyone else in the middle east?

 

[rhodescholar]

Not unrealistic at all toast. Most occupations have been ended under fire, apart from many of the British ones, as Britain learned the hard way that you cannot control a native population when they refuse to be controlled.

It happens when societies realise that colonialism is the problem. Not anti-colonial resistance.

Great, so when are the fucking egyptian, jordanian and syrian arabs who comprise the vast majority of the west bank and gazan arabs going back to their countries?

 

[rhodescholar]

Then do it in a democracy, not as a racist state for approved types only.

Stop with the oppression. Or make it a hell hole with yourself decaying morally each day.

There are 22 arab nations, none of them are democracies - how come assholes and liars like you never complain about them?

 

[Billo_Really]

There are 22 arab nations, none of them are democracies - how come assholes and liars like you never complain about them?

Israel is not a democracy either, fuck-face!

 

[Billo_Really]

Great, so when are the fucking egyptian, jordanian and syrian arabs who comprise the vast majority of the west bank and gazan arabs going back to their countries?

They ain't going anywhere, shithead! They're right where they belong.

 

[Billo_Really]

What "occupation" is that? And why would that change the insane arab muslim refusal to tolerate the sovereignty of anyone else in the middle east?

Fuck you! The occupation is not a debatable issue, dumbass!

 

[Beelzebub]

Then do it in a democracy, not as a racist state for approved types only.

Stop with the oppression. Or make it a hell hole with yourself decaying morally each day.

There are 22 arab nations, none of them are democracies - how come assholes and liars like you never complain about them?

Israel is is not a democracy. Its an ethnocracy. Palestinians also run democracy, but have effectively been forced by the US and Israel to move to emergency war-time government, due to the attacks on their democratic institutions.

Iran was democratic until the UK & US staged a "coup" and put the Shah or Iran on the throne.
Egypt was democratic, until Sisi, supported again by the US and the usual suspects staged their coup.
Turkey is democratic. Though I am sure Israel would prefer a pliant, affordable tyrant in control there. As with Assad, Israel "can do business" with tyrants, which it fails to do with local democracies.

The US and UK and Israel do not tolerate other local governments being democratic.

But its interesting that you think that particular lie about Israel being "democratic" still has some mileage.
It doesn't.

The day Israel becomes a western style democracy, with universal suffrage and respect for human rights the whole foundation of Israel as a racist state collapse.

 

[montelatici]

Wallace Shawn on Gaza: "The Anger of the Palestinians Cannot Be Ended by Killing Their Children"

Palistanians should change their occupation, of course.

The Israelis should end their occupation, actually. That would be a start towards peace.

Whenever there is a military occupation, there must be a cessation to all hostilities before that occupation ends.
To expect Israel to even THINK about leaving the West Bank is while they are being attacked every day or even every week is absurd and unrealistic.
Palestinians in Gaza AND the West Bank need to stop every single form of violence . Otherwise, their hole is going to get deeper and deeper.
Where has Palestinian violence gotten the Palestinians??

There have been periods of years without hostilities. Without violence against the occupier there is no incentive to end the occupation. It is very simple.

 

[montelatici]

No. Golda Meir was saying there would be peace until Arabs have been so terrorised into submission that they are too scared to lose more, and are cowed and pliant.

A very fascist approach by a colonialist to native people.
And entirely unrealistic, when the avowed intention of Zionism was to deprive all non-Jews in Palestine of land, liberty and life.

She never wanted peace. Like other Israeli leaders, she just wanted total victory.

Golda Meir - Wikiquote

• I prefer to stay alive and be criticized than be sympathized.

That's what the Boers said. Demographics will determine the end-state, the Jews have a chance to remain as a part of a secular society as the Boers and other whites in South Africa or end up like the white Rhodesians. It's really their choice. The more oppression and death they bring to the non-Jews they now control, the less chance that they will be able to remain in the area. It's human nature.

 

[Beelzebub]

Wallace Shawn on Gaza: "The Anger of the Palestinians Cannot Be Ended by Killing Their Children"

Palistanians should change their occupation, of course.

The Israelis should end their occupation, actually. That would be a start towards peace.

Whenever there is a military occupation, there must be a cessation to all hostilities before that occupation ends.
To expect Israel to even THINK about leaving the West Bank is while they are being attacked every day or even every week is absurd and unrealistic.
Palestinians in Gaza AND the West Bank need to stop every single form of violence . Otherwise, their hole is going to get deeper and deeper.
Where has Palestinian violence gotten the Palestinians??

There have been periods of years without hostilities. Without violence against the occupier there is no incentive to end the occupation. It is very simple.

Very much demonstrated by the different paths taken by the West Bank and Gaza.
The West Bank is being cut and sliced into ever smaller Palestinian havens, by new expanding settlements and Jews-only roads.

Gaza prompted a complete retreat by Settler groups, as they were too expensive for the IDF to maintain.

Now there is discussion of again going to close-occupation of Gaza, except the IDF knows it will cost hundreds of IDF lives, probably hundreds every year, and cost billions.

IDF wary of new Gaza ground op even as diplomacy lags - Diplomacy and Defense Israel News Haaretz


So resistance ISN'T futile.

 

[I.P.Freely]

the avowed intention of Zionism was to deprive all non-Jews in Palestine of land, liberty and life.

Wrong. The intention of Zionism was to create a Jewish homeland yes. But no where does it say that it is to deprive all the non-Jews of land, liberty, and life. All you have to do is visit the country to know the truth of that.

Maybe you should start by trying to convince these Holocaust victims Holocaust survivors condemn Israel for Gaza massacre call for boycott - Diplomacy and Defense Israel News Haaretz

 

[montelatici]

Not unrealistic at all toast. Most occupations have been ended under fire, apart from many of the British ones, as Britain learned the hard way that you cannot control a native population when they refuse to be controlled.

It happens when societies realise that colonialism is the problem. Not anti-colonial resistance.

Great, so when are the fucking egyptian, jordanian and syrian arabs who comprise the vast majority of the west bank and gazan arabs going back to their countries?

Palestinians are the same people that have lived continuously in Palestine for over 2000 years. The Jews are Europeans that invaded/settled Palestine over the past 100 years ago. Learn some history before showing your lack of education on the subject.

 

[Daniyel]

Not unrealistic at all toast. Most occupations have been ended under fire, apart from many of the British ones, as Britain learned the hard way that you cannot control a native population when they refuse to be controlled.

It happens when societies realise that colonialism is the problem. Not anti-colonial resistance.

Great, so when are the fucking egyptian, jordanian and syrian arabs who comprise the vast majority of the west bank and gazan arabs going back to their countries?

Palestinians are the same people that have lived continuously in Palestine for over 2000 years. The Jews are Europeans that invaded/settled Palestine over the past 100 years ago. Learn some history before showing your lack of education on the subject.

This is wrong, learning some history before showing your lack of education on the subject would surly change your perspective, Palestinians are not part of Israel, they lived in Israel but not for over 2,000 years which makes it ridiculously impossible since 2,000 years ago there was the kingdom of Israel, Jews only..anyway its the Palestinians that self determined to be called 'Palestinians' over Israelis and take part in small Israel, decided they want an Arab state of no Jews, it is fairly to say they didn't want to be Israelis before, now they claim to be Israelis? isolating themselves to take violent actions in order to not only refuse to let other people live and establish their state, but also to define their international agenda against Israel, and claim for the entire land unlawfully.

 

[teddyearp]

the avowed intention of Zionism was to deprive all non-Jews in Palestine of land, liberty and life.

Wrong. The intention of Zionism was to create a Jewish homeland yes. But no where does it say that it is to deprive all the non-Jews of land, liberty, and life. All you have to do is visit the country to know the truth of that.

Maybe you should start by trying to convince these Holocaust victims Holocaust survivors condemn Israel for Gaza massacre call for boycott - Diplomacy and Defense Israel News Haaretz

Hmm, maybe so, but when they say this:

Nothing can justify bombing UN shelters, homes, hospitals and universities.

They lose me because if "Nothing can justify bombing" these places where the missiles are being stored and/or fired from, then they seem to justify or turn the blind eye to the facts.

Also, I went to another link at your blessed Haaretz to be reminded of what Meshal said to Charlie Rose last month, or actually failed to say. Sidestepped the question of whether Hamas would recognise a Jewish state he said:

When we have a Palestinian state then the Palestinian state will decide on its policies. You cannot actually ask me about the future.

Meshal to Charlie Rose Hamas doesn t fight Jews it fights the occupiers - Diplomacy and Defense Israel News Haaretz

 

[Humanity]

Then go to New York and be a stand up comedian. You have the material.

No matter what I'm not leaving Israel, we are here to stay whether you like it or not.

You aren't in Israel are you!

You are in "occupied territory"!

So, move BACK to Israel!

 

[Beelzebub]

So he has already left Israel but is in denial.

Go figure.

 

[Daniyel]

So he has already left Israel but is in denial.

Go figure.

That's what the state of the stateless Palestinians, not the Israelis.

 

[Lipush]

Wallace Shawn on Gaza: "The Anger of the Palestinians Cannot Be Ended by Killing Their Children"

Editor's Note: Playwright and actor Wallace Shawn is on the advisory board of Jewish Voice for Peace, which condemns Israeli attacks in Gaza. Shawn recently translated Henrik Ibsen's

A Master Builder, a film by Jonathan Demme. Shawn submitted to The Hollywood Reporter this open letter to the Hollywood community. If you have a topic you would like to discuss, send potential submissions to [email protected].

Over the decades, I've done quite a bit of work as a translator from various languages, and sometimes when I get home from work, I just can't stop. Yesterday, for example, I saw an ad in The Hollywood Reporter. It was in English, but its meaning was not immediately obvious at all, so I felt an overwhelming impulse to translate it.

The ad featured a statement that former Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir had made in the 1950s about "the Arabs," but the ad (which leaves out the words "the Arabs") suggests that "her haunting words" are "as current as today's headlines. She could have been talking about Hamas." The quotation, as it appears in the ad, is as follows: "We can forgive [them] for killing our children. We cannot forgive them from forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with [them] when they love their children more than they hate us."

My quick personal translation of this would be: "When we kill the children of Arabs, the Arabs made us do it. They hate us so much, they are so angry, that they do things that enrage us and make us kill children. If they were decent people who loved their children, they would set aside their hatred and stop provoking us, and we would then stop killing the children."

Sometimes a translator feels compelled to argue with the text he's just translated, particularly when, as in the case of this ad, one is confronted by a photograph of the author that makes one vividly feel her presence. In this case, I can only say that despite her wise and thoughtful and grandmotherly face, Golda Meir can be interpreted as saying here that she plans to kill the children of Arabs up until the moment when, in her sole judgment, the Arabs stop feeling "hate" and become sufficiently unprovoking and pacified.

Applying her remarks to the present day, as the signers of the ad suggest we should do, the ad seems fundamentally to be saying that it ought to be up to the current prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, to decide when the current killing ought to stop. I have to say, I feel that this ad, directed to members of the show business community, perhaps especially to Jewish members of the show business community such as myself, takes as its premise a false view both of history and of the present situation.

The broad outlines of the terrible history of the Jewish people over the centuries is relatively well-known to many of us. But unfortunately, many members of the show business community are not very aware of the tragic history of the Palestinian people. And yet the fact is that in my own lifetime (I was born in 1943) the Palestinian people have been expelled from their land and subjected to unceasing and unjustifiable torment, including a brutal occupation and, in Gaza, a regime in which an entire population has been placed on a starvation diet.

Anyone who learns more about what has happened can't help but realize that the anger of the Palestinians cannot be ended by killing their children. That is a fantasy. Human beings simply aren't made that way.

Wallace Shawn on Gaza The Anger of the Palestinians Cannot Be Ended by Killing Their Children

Well put.
Well said, Vizzini.

Poor lost souls.

The Palestinian anger was NEVER about their children.

It was abut them thinking no enough Jews died.

They give their children as tribute to death as soon as they detach from their mothers' wombs.

 

[Lipush]

Looks like an IDF 'precision' strike on a Hamas target.

Is it really? Guess you didn't hear about Top Hamas leaders joining their virgins in the passed week