Hope they pass Trumpcare.....

[g5000]

I understand that, I also understand that Elder Care is exponentially more expensive.

Actually kids from 1 to 92, cost the same during their final year, To treat a cancer in a 10 year-old costs the same as in a 60 year-old.

Except more 60 year olds get cancer than 10 year olds. Many, many, many more.

 

[Doc1]

I'm fine with Medicare for the elderly. However, it should not kick in until you are 70, and should be indexed to 9 percent of the population going forward.

Same with Social Security.

We are living decades longer than our ancestors who established the eligibility age at 65. We should be working longer than they did. Common sense.

Back then, only 5.4% of the population was over 65. Most people didn't make it to 65. SS was intended for people who beat the odds, not for everyone.

In 1965, when Medicare was added to the mix, 9 percent of the population was over the age of 65.

Today, 15 percent of the population is over 65.

This is a blazingly obvious unsustainable trend. The eligibility age should be rising commensurate with life expectancy.

Common fricking sense.

Try and get that done in ANY Congress. Never happen.

 

[Doc1]

I understand that, I also understand that Elder Care is exponentially more expensive.

Actually kids from 1 to 92, cost the same during their final year, To treat a cancer in a 10 year-old costs the same as in a 60 year-old.

Except more 60 year olds get cancer than 10 year olds.

He's just playing games.

 

[g5000]

CDC - Cancer Facts for Demographic Groups

 

[bendog]

No, we're all in one pot.

So you're claiming that the fruits of my labor are yours and vice versa? Ok, when are you going to pony up and start paying some of my personal expenses? Sorry about your wife's condition, it's unfortunate but I have my own list of charitable causes that I want to service with the fruits of MY labor and your personal wants/needs/problems isn't on it as I'm sure mine are not on yours.

However if you, Fox, ever got cancer and then had a change of employement, you would be a deplorable and uninsurable.

Ummm.. there's a difference, I don't want anything that I didn't earn, in other words I never have nor would I ever expect anybody else to pay for my personal expenses under ANY circumstances because doing so is both indecent and immoral.

What you didn't earn? For fuck's sake, you couldn't pay for an HC policy on your own without MY tax dollars subsidizing your employer's cost

Hate to burst your bubble but your tax dollars don't subsidize anything for me, I am now and always have been a net payer as in I pay more in than I get in return. The fact of the matter is you're the one that is explicitly asking for a 14K a year subsidy from your fellow citizens, not me, I don't accept subsidies for my personal expenses since I believe it's immoral to confiscate the fruits of other peoples labor in order to benefit myself and that includes doing it at the point of a government gun.

You want 14K a year to pay for your expenses? get it in the only way that isn't morally deficient and try asking others to voluntarily give it to you.

ANYONE getting HC is being subsidized by the rest of us. YOU are being subsidized.

It's easy to make such claims, yet you have provided absolutely ZERO in the way of evidence.

I apologize for calling you a name. however, under any set of facts YOU ARE being subsidized for over 14K per year ... if you have any private or public insurance.

Show us how that is true?

You do not know that employers receive tax expenditures to provide HC benefits? We landed on the moon, btw.

 

[Doc1]

So you're claiming that the fruits of my labor are yours and vice versa? Ok, when are you going to pony up and start paying some of my personal expenses? Sorry about your wife's condition, it's unfortunate but I have my own list of charitable causes that I want to service with the fruits of MY labor and your personal wants/needs/problems isn't on it as I'm sure mine are not on yours.

Ummm.. there's a difference, I don't want anything that I didn't earn, in other words I never have nor would I ever expect anybody else to pay for my personal expenses under ANY circumstances because doing so is both indecent and immoral.

What you didn't earn? For fuck's sake, you couldn't pay for an HC policy on your own without MY tax dollars subsidizing your employer's cost

Hate to burst your bubble but your tax dollars don't subsidize anything for me, I am now and always have been a net payer as in I pay more in than I get in return. The fact of the matter is you're the one that is explicitly asking for a 14K a year subsidy from your fellow citizens, not me, I don't accept subsidies for my personal expenses since I believe it's immoral to confiscate the fruits of other peoples labor in order to benefit myself and that includes doing it at the point of a government gun.

You want 14K a year to pay for your expenses? get it in the only way that isn't morally deficient and try asking others to voluntarily give it to you.

ANYONE getting HC is being subsidized by the rest of us. YOU are being subsidized.

It's easy to make such claims, yet you have provided absolutely ZERO in the way of evidence.

I apologize for calling you a name. however, under any set of facts YOU ARE being subsidized for over 14K per year ... if you have any private or public insurance.

Show us how that is true?

You do not know that employers receive tax expenditures to provide HC benefits? We landed on the moon, btw.

So your point is that ALL money belongs to the Government and anything they let us keep therefore is an "expenditure" Got it.

 

[Doc1]

What you didn't earn? For fuck's sake, you couldn't pay for an HC policy on your own without MY tax dollars subsidizing your employer's cost

Hate to burst your bubble but your tax dollars don't subsidize anything for me, I am now and always have been a net payer as in I pay more in than I get in return. The fact of the matter is you're the one that is explicitly asking for a 14K a year subsidy from your fellow citizens, not me, I don't accept subsidies for my personal expenses since I believe it's immoral to confiscate the fruits of other peoples labor in order to benefit myself and that includes doing it at the point of a government gun.

You want 14K a year to pay for your expenses? get it in the only way that isn't morally deficient and try asking others to voluntarily give it to you.

ANYONE getting HC is being subsidized by the rest of us. YOU are being subsidized.

It's easy to make such claims, yet you have provided absolutely ZERO in the way of evidence.

I apologize for calling you a name. however, under any set of facts YOU ARE being subsidized for over 14K per year ... if you have any private or public insurance.

Show us how that is true?

You do not know that employers receive tax expenditures to provide HC benefits? We landed on the moon, btw.

So your point is that ALL money belongs to the Government and anything they let us keep therefore is an "expenditure" Got it.

Do us a favor, show us what the Employer Tax Credit is......but you moved the goalposts , the rest of us have been talking about individual plans

 

[NightFox]

So instead of you paying that 14K of expenses that are by all standards of common decency your responsibility, you want the rest of us to pay it for you? Sounds like you want to foist off that "pre-existing" condition on your fellow citizens and I for one don't appreciate you advocating the federal government holding a gun to my head and forcing me to pay for YOUR expenses.

No, we're all in one pot.

So you're claiming that the fruits of my labor are yours and vice versa? Ok, when are you going to pony up and start paying some of my personal expenses? Sorry about your wife's condition, it's unfortunate but I have my own list of charitable causes that I want to service with the fruits of MY labor and your personal wants/needs/problems isn't on it as I'm sure mine are not on yours.

However if you, Fox, ever got cancer and then had a change of employement, you would be a deplorable and uninsurable.

Ummm.. there's a difference, I don't want anything that I didn't earn, in other words I never have nor would I ever expect anybody else to pay for my personal expenses under ANY circumstances because doing so is both indecent and immoral.

What you didn't earn? For fuck's sake, you couldn't pay for an HC policy on your own without MY tax dollars subsidizing your employer's cost

Hate to burst your bubble but your tax dollars don't subsidize anything for me, I am now and always have been a net payer as in I pay more in than I get in return. The fact of the matter is you're the one that is explicitly asking for a 14K a year subsidy from your fellow citizens, not me, I don't accept subsidies for my personal expenses since I believe it's immoral to confiscate the fruits of other peoples labor in order to benefit myself and that includes doing it at the point of a government gun.

You want 14K a year to pay for your expenses? get it in the only way that isn't morally deficient and try asking others to voluntarily give it to you.

ANYONE getting HC is being subsidized by the rest of us. YOU are being subsidized.

It's easy to make such claims, yet you have provided absolutely ZERO in the way of evidence.

I apologize for calling you a name. however, under any set of facts YOU ARE being subsidized for over 14K per year ... if you have any private or public insurance.

Your assertion is flawed since you have no idea what my insurance costs versus what my actuarial risk is but just for the sake of discussion, while I've paid health insurance premiums for 3 decades my insurance company has never had to pay a penny for my costs (it's all been out of pocket) and thanks to ever increasing government involvement my premiums have continued to rise at an accelerating pace and with less comprehensive coverage.

So if you're subsidizing me as you claim you're doing a piss poor job of it and I would like you to cease and desist as your "subsidies" are driving up MY costs.

 

[Doc1]

No, we're all in one pot.

So you're claiming that the fruits of my labor are yours and vice versa? Ok, when are you going to pony up and start paying some of my personal expenses? Sorry about your wife's condition, it's unfortunate but I have my own list of charitable causes that I want to service with the fruits of MY labor and your personal wants/needs/problems isn't on it as I'm sure mine are not on yours.

However if you, Fox, ever got cancer and then had a change of employement, you would be a deplorable and uninsurable.

Ummm.. there's a difference, I don't want anything that I didn't earn, in other words I never have nor would I ever expect anybody else to pay for my personal expenses under ANY circumstances because doing so is both indecent and immoral.

What you didn't earn? For fuck's sake, you couldn't pay for an HC policy on your own without MY tax dollars subsidizing your employer's cost

Hate to burst your bubble but your tax dollars don't subsidize anything for me, I am now and always have been a net payer as in I pay more in than I get in return. The fact of the matter is you're the one that is explicitly asking for a 14K a year subsidy from your fellow citizens, not me, I don't accept subsidies for my personal expenses since I believe it's immoral to confiscate the fruits of other peoples labor in order to benefit myself and that includes doing it at the point of a government gun.

You want 14K a year to pay for your expenses? get it in the only way that isn't morally deficient and try asking others to voluntarily give it to you.

ANYONE getting HC is being subsidized by the rest of us. YOU are being subsidized.

It's easy to make such claims, yet you have provided absolutely ZERO in the way of evidence.

I apologize for calling you a name. however, under any set of facts YOU ARE being subsidized for over 14K per year ... if you have any private or public insurance.

Your assertion is flawed since you have no idea what my insurance costs versus what my actuarial risk is but just for the sake of discussion, while I've paid health insurance premiums for 3 decades my insurance company has never had to pay a penny for my costs (it's all been out of pocket) and thanks to ever increasing government involvement my premiums have continued to rise at an accelerating pace and with less comprehensive coverage.

So if you're subsidizing me as you claim you're doing a piss poor job of it and I would like you to cease and desist as your "subsidies" are driving up MY costs.

How high did you go on your deductible?

 

[ph3iron]

As everyone well remembers, one of the biggest criticism against passing of the ACA was attributed that it passed without ANY republican approval.....So, guess what will happen when Trumpcare (at least in the House) passes without a single (well maybe one or two) Dem votes?

Further, the 30 second adds are soon to be prepared by the DNC against vulnerable GOP seats in 2018 for their vote on ultimately kicking folks out of the ACA's provision that insurance companies MUST accept to insure people with pre existing conditions.

The moronic and unfounded Trump promise that ALL would be covered at a cheaper and better premium is just that....a moronic, unfulfilled and broken promise....and all who are forced to vote for Trumpcare will ultimately have to carry that "albatross" on their back......

Want to guess which states have the MOST people who will lose coverage?....Mississippi, WV ,Al, KY, TN, SC, etc......all states that foolishly trusted the Trumpster.,

Isn't it obvious that you can't have a greater plan cheaper? Get what you pay for.
But the toothless Mississippi trumpies won't care anyway.

 

[bendog]

I don't really see the auto (or homeowner or whatever) insurance analogy. It's simply faulty logic. Not everyone owns, or even drives, a car. Everyone will get sick and eventually die.

The analogy was brought up to support the argument that if the HC insurance marketplace was truly transparent, and if consumers had the money to buy insurance, then possibly the market would be more efficient than what we have now ....

and we really have no clue as to what a doc prescribes costs, whether it is the cheapest and "best" option, and what providers get the best outcomes from treatment. But all that is a separate issue, because the gop proposal DOES NOTHING to change that.

 

[bendog]

No, we're all in one pot.

So you're claiming that the fruits of my labor are yours and vice versa? Ok, when are you going to pony up and start paying some of my personal expenses? Sorry about your wife's condition, it's unfortunate but I have my own list of charitable causes that I want to service with the fruits of MY labor and your personal wants/needs/problems isn't on it as I'm sure mine are not on yours.

However if you, Fox, ever got cancer and then had a change of employement, you would be a deplorable and uninsurable.

Ummm.. there's a difference, I don't want anything that I didn't earn, in other words I never have nor would I ever expect anybody else to pay for my personal expenses under ANY circumstances because doing so is both indecent and immoral.

What you didn't earn? For fuck's sake, you couldn't pay for an HC policy on your own without MY tax dollars subsidizing your employer's cost

Hate to burst your bubble but your tax dollars don't subsidize anything for me, I am now and always have been a net payer as in I pay more in than I get in return. The fact of the matter is you're the one that is explicitly asking for a 14K a year subsidy from your fellow citizens, not me, I don't accept subsidies for my personal expenses since I believe it's immoral to confiscate the fruits of other peoples labor in order to benefit myself and that includes doing it at the point of a government gun.

You want 14K a year to pay for your expenses? get it in the only way that isn't morally deficient and try asking others to voluntarily give it to you.

ANYONE getting HC is being subsidized by the rest of us. YOU are being subsidized.

It's easy to make such claims, yet you have provided absolutely ZERO in the way of evidence.

I apologize for calling you a name. however, under any set of facts YOU ARE being subsidized for over 14K per year ... if you have any private or public insurance.

Your assertion is flawed since you have no idea what my insurance costs versus what my actuarial risk is but just for the sake of discussion, while I've paid health insurance premiums for 3 decades my insurance company has never had to pay a penny for my costs (it's all been out of pocket) and thanks to ever increasing government involvement my premiums have continued to rise at an accelerating pace and with less comprehensive coverage.

So if you're subsidizing me as you claim you're doing a piss poor job of it and I would like you to cease and desist as your "subsidies" are driving up MY costs.

I was subsiding YOU before and after Obamacare. It's the nature of the beast, Fox. We ALL get subsidies.

 

[ph3iron]

Prediction, The House passes it, it dies in the Senate.

And some GOP House members will die with it.

Won't happen, let's see Obama shut down the Govt and it was said Pubs would die a horrible death in the mid-terms. They took the House. Two year later, they took the Senate and now Hillary is knitting little sickies for Bill and Chelsea. No changes will take place until the powers that be decide they will take place. 2016 was a staged election so I'm not certain there will be any mid-terms.

I didn't think a Pres could shut down the gov. Congress?
Educate me

 

[toobfreak]

"......all states that foolishly trusted the Trumpster."

Goofy speaks again.

 

[Doc1]

Prediction, The House passes it, it dies in the Senate.

And some GOP House members will die with it.

Won't happen, let's see Obama shut down the Govt and it was said Pubs would die a horrible death in the mid-terms. They took the House. Two year later, they took the Senate and now Hillary is knitting little sickies for Bill and Chelsea. No changes will take place until the powers that be decide they will take place. 2016 was a staged election so I'm not certain there will be any mid-terms.

I didn't think a Pres could shut down the gov. Congress?
Educate me

Then what happened during Obama's first term?

 

[ph3iron]

So you're claiming that the fruits of my labor are yours and vice versa? Ok, when are you going to pony up and start paying some of my personal expenses? Sorry about your wife's condition, it's unfortunate but I have my own list of charitable causes that I want to service with the fruits of MY labor and your personal wants/needs/problems isn't on it as I'm sure mine are not on yours.

Ummm.. there's a difference, I don't want anything that I didn't earn, in other words I never have nor would I ever expect anybody else to pay for my personal expenses under ANY circumstances because doing so is both indecent and immoral.

What you didn't earn? For fuck's sake, you couldn't pay for an HC policy on your own without MY tax dollars subsidizing your employer's cost

Hate to burst your bubble but your tax dollars don't subsidize anything for me, I am now and always have been a net payer as in I pay more in than I get in return. The fact of the matter is you're the one that is explicitly asking for a 14K a year subsidy from your fellow citizens, not me, I don't accept subsidies for my personal expenses since I believe it's immoral to confiscate the fruits of other peoples labor in order to benefit myself and that includes doing it at the point of a government gun.

You want 14K a year to pay for your expenses? get it in the only way that isn't morally deficient and try asking others to voluntarily give it to you.

ANYONE getting HC is being subsidized by the rest of us. YOU are being subsidized.

It's easy to make such claims, yet you have provided absolutely ZERO in the way of evidence.

I apologize for calling you a name. however, under any set of facts YOU ARE being subsidized for over 14K per year ... if you have any private or public insurance.

Your assertion is flawed since you have no idea what my insurance costs versus what my actuarial risk is but just for the sake of discussion, while I've paid health insurance premiums for 3 decades my insurance company has never had to pay a penny for my costs (it's all been out of pocket) and thanks to ever increasing government involvement my premiums have continued to rise at an accelerating pace and with less comprehensive coverage.

So if you're subsidizing me as you claim you're doing a piss poor job of it and I would like you to cease and desist as your "subsidies" are driving up MY costs.

I was subsiding YOU before and after Obamacare. It's the nature of the beast, Fox. We ALL get subsidies.

It always amuses me how many of the whiners are old white farts sucking of their socialist benefits. I think the average person takes out 40 % more than they ever put in but they never seem, to mention it!!

 

[Siete]

Prediction, The House passes it, it dies in the Senate.

And some GOP House members will die with it.

Won't happen, let's see Obama shut down the Govt and it was said Pubs would die a horrible death in the mid-terms. They took the House. Two year later, they took the Senate and now Hillary is knitting little sickies for Bill and Chelsea. No changes will take place until the powers that be decide they will take place. 2016 was a staged election so I'm not certain there will be any mid-terms.

I didn't think a Pres could shut down the gov. Congress?
Educate me

Then what happened during Obama's first term?

I told you and you're too stupid to get past magic negro

 

[ph3iron]

I don't really see the auto (or homeowner or whatever) insurance analogy. It's simply faulty logic. Not everyone owns, or even drives, a car. Everyone will get sick and eventually die.

The analogy was brought up to support the argument that if the HC insurance marketplace was truly transparent, and if consumers had the money to buy insurance, then possibly the market would be more efficient than what we have now ....

and we really have no clue as to what a doc prescribes costs, whether it is the cheapest and "best" option, and what providers get the best outcomes from treatment. But all that is a separate issue, because the gop proposal DOES NOTHING to change that.

Nothing will change while the insurance and drug companies run the system.
Medicare overhead 4 % insurance run 20%.
As the trumpie said, "keep the gov out of my medicare"

 

[ph3iron]

Prediction, The House passes it, it dies in the Senate.

And some GOP House members will die with it.

Won't happen, let's see Obama shut down the Govt and it was said Pubs would die a horrible death in the mid-terms. They took the House. Two year later, they took the Senate and now Hillary is knitting little sickies for Bill and Chelsea. No changes will take place until the powers that be decide they will take place. 2016 was a staged election so I'm not certain there will be any mid-terms.

I didn't think a Pres could shut down the gov. Congress?
Educate me

Then what happened during Obama's first term?

My daughter started a $150mm business. 23 yr olds starting at $90k with engineering degrees.
You?? Do tell

 

[ph3iron]

"......all states that foolishly trusted the Trumpster."

Goofy speaks again.

Not all of us filthy rich corporatists. Couldn't wait to vote for Don the con