Hottest Summer on Record

[Flash]

[Q

So yes then? You feel the world's gov'ts are dumber than you. Good to know.

Absolutely!

I am an Environmental Engineer that spent 30 years in the field. I have actually cleaned up more pollution than 10,000 environmental wackos will ever see in their lives. The idiots that are elected by special interest groups to run governments wouldn't know what a pollutant was if it was to bite them in the ass.

Leaders and governments don't do the smart thing. They do the political thing and if that means catering to environmental wackos then so be it. There is a big difference between the two.

Government has given us $19 trillion in debt. That is a dumb thing to do. My household is debt free, which is smart. Who is the dumb one there? If you think that this government or any other government is not dumb or don't do stupid things like participate in this AGW scam then you are a very naive person.

Impossible that you know anything about climate science and believe that 400ppm means nothing. You are arrogant to say the least.

so what does 400PPM of CO2 mean? Come now genius tell us your experiment that shows the dangers of 400 PPM. What, ain't got one? Then you must have meant something else with that post.

You can't even prove hottest summer eva, and yet here you are arguing for it. I laugh at little fks like you.

It means we have 400 PPM CO2 in the atmosphere. So what? CO2 has been increasing since the end of the last Ice Age. During that time we have had climate both warmer and cooler than it is now.

Increased CO2 concentrations generally lags increased temperature changes which is a fact that the scammers fail to recognize although the data is conclusive on that.

It was a theory that CO2 gases in the concentrations of the industrial age was going to cause a greenhouse effect. It was worthwhile to look into. However, the theory didn't pan out in real life because the complexity of the chemistry in the atmosphere didn't react the way the computer models said it would. That is the reason the scammers have been using fabricated data on real measurements and that is why we can't trust anything they say. That is also the reason that their hasn't been any real warming of the planet for the last 15 years or so and that many scientist think we are heading for another mini ice age in the next couple of decades.

However, if you are naive and stupid and want to believe the scam even in with the revelation of tremendous data fabrication by the scammers then go right ahead Sport. There is a sucker born every minute.

 

[jc456]

The earth was an ice ball one in the past and the CO2 concentrations were ten times what they are now.

When the sun was much cooler. Did you masters just not tell you that, or did you deliberately leave that out? The only way for the earth to melt was when CO2 levels gradually increased more from volcanoes. So congratulations, you've just provided more yet evidence for how CO2 is a greenhouse gas that causes global warming.

There have been times when the earth was cooler and the concentrations of CO2 were higher

When the sun was cooler, or other factors were at play. You may think CO2 is the only driver of climate, but no real scientist every claimed such a crazy thing.

and there have been times when the earth was warmer and the concentration was lower like in the Medieval Warm Period

The MWP was local, and cooler than it is now. You're parroting more denier fables.

The data show that CO2 concentration usually lags temperature change, not cause it.

Is there any debunked denier talking point you're not going to parrot here?

First, better measurements show that's questionable.

Second, it doesn't matter. Basic logic should tell anyone that the present is not constrained to act like the past if conditions in the present are wildly different, as they are now. Forest fires were always natural in the past, but that doesn't mean it's impossible for humans to cause forest fires.

In theory CO2 should be a greenhouse gas. However, in the chemistry of the earth it doesn't work out that way. That is why the scammers have to fabricate data. The real measurements don't prove the greenhouse theories so that is why the scammers have been caught making shit up.

There's no conspiracy. You just fail at every bit of science and logic.

Water in the atmosphere absorbs and washes out most of the CO2 before it can react in a greenhouse manner and that is why the data fails in real life.

Completely and hilariously wrong. Water does not "wash out" CO2.

That is why we have haven't measured any real significant climate change in the last 15 years

Given the evidence presented on this thread, you have no excuse for parroting a lie of that magnitude.

and we may be even heading for a mini ice age in a couple of decades even though the CO2 level is increasing.

Don't be naive and stupid. It just makes you look like a fool.

Speaking of stupid, your cult has been making those cooling predictions for decades now, and failing at them for decades. And despite that denier record of perfect failure, you're still loyal. But then, it's your religion, so in your eyes, no evidence can disprove it.

If you want to worry about things then worry about how we are going to pay off Obama's enormous debt or Muslims killing Christians.

As that demonstrates further, nearly every denier is a hardcore member of the right-wing-fringe extremist cult. Denialism is purely politics. In contrast, the mainstream science crosses all political boundaries all across the world, because it's actually science.

thread is Hottest Summer on Record, and the only way to get to that statement is to take temperature records and adjust them. It's just that simple. And.....we know it!

The only thing that is hottest summer is the past records with the adjustments in it. LOL, all that post and still not one source of evidence such as a raw data temperature set. Let's see it, let us determine who is right on adjustments or not. Biased records, again, do you deny it? Nope!!!

So the only deniers in here are folks like you who deny the thermometers and meters with the raw data on them. Yep you deny their readings.

Hottest nothing eva friend.

 

[jc456]

[Q

So yes then? You feel the world's gov'ts are dumber than you. Good to know.

Absolutely!

I am an Environmental Engineer that spent 30 years in the field. I have actually cleaned up more pollution than 10,000 environmental wackos will ever see in their lives. The idiots that are elected by special interest groups to run governments wouldn't know what a pollutant was if it was to bite them in the ass.

Leaders and governments don't do the smart thing. They do the political thing and if that means catering to environmental wackos then so be it. There is a big difference between the two.

Government has given us $19 trillion in debt. That is a dumb thing to do. My household is debt free, which is smart. Who is the dumb one there? If you think that this government or any other government is not dumb or don't do stupid things like participate in this AGW scam then you are a very naive person.

Impossible that you know anything about climate science and believe that 400ppm means nothing. You are arrogant to say the least.

so what does 400PPM of CO2 mean? Come now genius tell us your experiment that shows the dangers of 400 PPM. What, ain't got one? Then you must have meant something else with that post.

You can't even prove hottest summer eva, and yet here you are arguing for it. I laugh at little fks like you.

It means we have 400 PPM CO2 in the atmosphere. So what? CO2 has been increasing since the end of the last Ice Age. During that time we have had climate both warmer and cooler than it is now.

Increased CO2 concentrations generally lags increased temperature changes which is a fact that the scammers fail to recognize although the data is conclusive on that.

It was a theory that CO2 gases in the concentrations of the industrial age was going to cause a greenhouse effect. It was worthwhile to look into. However, the theory didn't pan out in real life because the complexity of the chemistry in the atmosphere didn't react the way the computer models said it would. That is the reason the scammers have been using fabricated data on real measurements and that is why we can't trust anything they say. That is also the reason that their hasn't been any real warming of the planet for the last 15 years or so and that many scientist think we are heading for another mini ice age in the next couple of decades.

However, if you are naive and stupid and want to believe the scam even in with the revelation of tremendous data fabrication by the scammers then go right ahead Sport. There is a sucker born every minute.

they simply fail to understand the logarithmic characteristics of the gas. They simply can't wrap their little limbs around it.

That most changes are in the first 120 PPM and after that the amount of IR it can hold reduces greatly. They just can't grasp science. Just can't. They are the epitome of a denier.

 

[Old Rocks]

Here is ol' jc once again going off on tangents, trying to avert attention from the fact that we just had, by far, the hottest summer on record, and 2015 will be the hottest year on record, right after we had another record year in 2014.

This year is once again proving how totally out of touch with reality the denialists are, and how they are willing to put out any old lie, no matter how illogical, to defend their ignorance and stupidity.

 

[jc456]

Here is ol' jc once again going off on tangents, trying to avert attention from the fact that we just had, by far, the hottest summer on record, and 2015 will be the hottest year on record, right after we had another record year in 2014.

This year is once again proving how totally out of touch with reality the denialists are, and how they are willing to put out any old lie, no matter how illogical, to defend their ignorance and stupidity.

tangent? hahahahahaahahaha, hottest summer eva!!!!!!!!! you got it. yep, you took the raw data and you manipulated the days of the year to support a failed model so you think you have factual information. hahahahahahahaa. Sorry Charlie.

Epic fail on your part. It isn't a tangent it is the truth, and you can't handle the truth. Thanks a few good men.

 

[Old Rocks]

LOL. Ok, let's see what the scientists are saying;

Incredible November Warmth for Portions of the U.S., Europe and Beyond


By Christopher C. Burt
Published: 7:57 PM GMT on November 10, 2015
Incredible November Warmth for the U.S., Europe and Beyond

The first 10 days of November 2015 have seen record-breaking warmth for many locations in Florida and elsewhere in U.S. while all-time November monthly national heat records have so far been broken in the U.K., Ireland, France, Estonia, Slovenia, and Finland. All-time record heat (for any month) was also observed in parts of Australia and French Guiana. Here is a brief summary.


image: http://icons.wxug.com/hurricane/chrisburt/globenov7.jpg

Read more at Weather Extremes : Incredible November Warmth for Portions of the U.S., Europe and Beyond| Weather Underground

And the heat continues.

NOAA: Better Than 97 Percent Chance 2015 Will Be Hottest Year on Record
by ASSOCIATED PRESS

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Earth's record-breaking heat is sounding an awful lot like a broken record. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration announced Thursday that August, this past summer and the first eight months of 2015 all smashed global records for heat. That's the fifth straight record hot season in a row and the fourth consecutive record hot month.

Meteorologists say 2015 is a near certainty to eclipse 2014 as the hottest year on record. This year, six of the eight months have been record-breaking, with only April and January failing to set new records. Since 2000, Earth has broken monthly heat records 30 times and seasonal heat records 11 times. The last time a monthly cold record was broken was in 1916. Records go back to 1880.

 

[jc456]

LOL. Ok, let's see what the scientists are saying;

Incredible November Warmth for Portions of the U.S., Europe and Beyond


By Christopher C. Burt
Published: 7:57 PM GMT on November 10, 2015
Incredible November Warmth for the U.S., Europe and Beyond

The first 10 days of November 2015 have seen record-breaking warmth for many locations in Florida and elsewhere in U.S. while all-time November monthly national heat records have so far been broken in the U.K., Ireland, France, Estonia, Slovenia, and Finland. All-time record heat (for any month) was also observed in parts of Australia and French Guiana. Here is a brief summary.


image: http://icons.wxug.com/hurricane/chrisburt/globenov7.jpg

Read more at Weather Extremes : Incredible November Warmth for Portions of the U.S., Europe and Beyond| Weather Underground

And the heat continues.

NOAA: Better Than 97 Percent Chance 2015 Will Be Hottest Year on Record
by ASSOCIATED PRESS

• SHARE
• Share
• Tweet
• Share
• Email
• Comment

Earth's record-breaking heat is sounding an awful lot like a broken record. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration announced Thursday that August, this past summer and the first eight months of 2015 all smashed global records for heat. That's the fifth straight record hot season in a row and the fourth consecutive record hot month.

Meteorologists say 2015 is a near certainty to eclipse 2014 as the hottest year on record. This year, six of the eight months have been record-breaking, with only April and January failing to set new records. Since 2000, Earth has broken monthly heat records 30 times and seasonal heat records 11 times. The last time a monthly cold record was broken was in 1916. Records go back to 1880.

And if it isn't, by god they will make the necessary adjustments to make it so. Take that to the bank.

Cause it's gotta be the hottest summer eva!!!!!!

 

[Searcher44]

Scientist first came up with a theory that because burning fossil fuels produces CO2 gasses then the CO2 will produce a greenhouse effect on earth raising temperatures.

That was a valid theory. They even looked at preliminary data that showed a rough correlation between atmospheric CO2 levels and world wide temperatures and it showed a rise in both.

However, then is where the real science began to fall apart and the scam began.

Because the initial correlation showed rise in CO2 levels and temperature there was a lot of money put into research. The research mostly consisted of computer modeling.

The science was distorted in order to provide the computer models with the data to support the theory to continue with the funding sources.

For instance, the data that shows historically that CO2 levels lag temperature was ignored. The lag was both in the increase in temperature and the decrease sides.

Data showing that in the past the CO2 levels were ten times higher but yet the earth was much cooler and data showing that at times the CO2 levels were lower but yet the earth was warmer were mostly ignored in the computer models.

World wide temperature data was manipulated like we saw in Al Gore's hockey stick picture where data was cherry picked. When the scientist used all the data then the picture was different.

Assumptions were made about historical temperatures that were indefensible based upon the sparse data collected. “World wide temperature data” was based upon some very flimsy tree ring and ice samples in just a few locations and temperature measurements, mostly in the universities in Europe and North America, in the last couple of hundred years at best. Southern Hemisphere data was very sparse and large areas like Siberia and Asia were mostly ignored not to mention most of Africa and South America.

The empirical data about how CO2 really chemically reacts in the atmosphere were mostly ignored. CO2 does not react the same in real life that it does in the theoretical computer models. The chemistry in the atmosphere is much more complex than the computer models forecast. Rain washes out most of the CO2 in the atmosphere.

Then there was the Climategate revelations that data was manipulated by the scientists in order to prove what could not be proven with real data. This really blew the whistle on the scam. In addition to that we have the fact that both NASA and NOAA have been manipulating data.

Then you have the fact that after 30 years of this theory there is no credible evidence that the climate on earth is getting warmer due to man made influence. In fact the climate has been relatively stable for the last 15 years despite counties like China putting out tremendous more amounts of CO2 gasses. There is very credible evidence that the earth may be moving back into another mini ice age like happens every few hundred years. The last one was in medieval times.

We also need to understand that the “normal” temperature of the earth has been warmer than now with little permanent ice on the planet. That is the way it has been for a substantial part of the existence of the earth. This age of ice that we are in now is only about 2.7 million years old. However, there were other times in the Cryogenian period and the Late Ordovician Period where we had “snowball earth”.

AGW is just bad science because it has become a political issue. It has nothing to do with real science and more to do with the redistribution of wealth from the industrialized countries to the Third World. That is the real root of the scam.

I gave your post an "informative" rating because I think you put some thought into this "conspiracy" business and your anti-GW view isn't just a right-wing anti-Obama paranoid rant. And the information you present, such as "We also need to understand that the “normal” temperature of the earth has been warmer than now with little permanent ice on the planet." is worth considering and investigating as evidence in the debate. Still, I find it highly unlikely that this is correct;

"However, then is where the real science began to fall apart and the scam began.
Because the initial correlation showed rise in CO2 levels and temperature there was a lot of money put into research. The research mostly consisted of computer modeling.
The science was distorted in order to provide the computer models with the data to support the theory to continue with the funding sources."

That isn't information, it's opinion. And it's an opinion that is so cynically conspiracy rooted that I put it in that list of conspiracy theories with the 9/11's and the Bilderbergers/NWO's. I can't find a way to believe that the vast majority of Scientists in the field would risk their life's work and reputation by falsifying data in the hopes of receiving short term grant money or whatever sources of funds that you're referring to. Most of them would be risking their positions and livelihood by getting involved in such a conspiracy. Anyway thanks for giving me some info to check out and digest.

 

[Searcher44]

The earth was an ice ball one in the past and the CO2 concentrations were ten times what they are now.

When the sun was much cooler. Did you masters just not tell you that, or did you deliberately leave that out? The only way for the earth to melt was when CO2 levels gradually increased more from volcanoes. So congratulations, you've just provided more yet evidence for how CO2 is a greenhouse gas that causes global warming.

There have been times when the earth was cooler and the concentrations of CO2 were higher

When the sun was cooler, or other factors were at play. You may think CO2 is the only driver of climate, but no real scientist every claimed such a crazy thing.

and there have been times when the earth was warmer and the concentration was lower like in the Medieval Warm Period

The MWP was local, and cooler than it is now. You're parroting more denier fables.

The data show that CO2 concentration usually lags temperature change, not cause it.

Is there any debunked denier talking point you're not going to parrot here?

First, better measurements show that's questionable.

Second, it doesn't matter. Basic logic should tell anyone that the present is not constrained to act like the past if conditions in the present are wildly different, as they are now. Forest fires were always natural in the past, but that doesn't mean it's impossible for humans to cause forest fires.

In theory CO2 should be a greenhouse gas. However, in the chemistry of the earth it doesn't work out that way. That is why the scammers have to fabricate data. The real measurements don't prove the greenhouse theories so that is why the scammers have been caught making shit up.

There's no conspiracy. You just fail at every bit of science and logic.

Water in the atmosphere absorbs and washes out most of the CO2 before it can react in a greenhouse manner and that is why the data fails in real life.

Completely and hilariously wrong. Water does not "wash out" CO2.

That is why we have haven't measured any real significant climate change in the last 15 years

Given the evidence presented on this thread, you have no excuse for parroting a lie of that magnitude.

and we may be even heading for a mini ice age in a couple of decades even though the CO2 level is increasing.

Don't be naive and stupid. It just makes you look like a fool.

Speaking of stupid, your cult has been making those cooling predictions for decades now, and failing at them for decades. And despite that denier record of perfect failure, you're still loyal. But then, it's your religion, so in your eyes, no evidence can disprove it.

If you want to worry about things then worry about how we are going to pay off Obama's enormous debt or Muslims killing Christians.

As that demonstrates further, nearly every denier is a hardcore member of the right-wing-fringe extremist cult. Denialism is purely politics. In contrast, the mainstream science crosses all political boundaries all across the world, because it's actually science.

thread is Hottest Summer on Record, and the only way to get to that statement is to take temperature records and adjust them. It's just that simple. And.....we know it!

The only thing that is hottest summer is the past records with the adjustments in it. LOL, all that post and still not one source of evidence such as a raw data temperature set. Let's see it, let us determine who is right on adjustments or not. Biased records, again, do you deny it? Nope!!!

So the only deniers in here are folks like you who deny the thermometers and meters with the raw data on them. Yep you deny their readings.

Hottest nothing eva friend.

When some people hear "temperature adjustment" they automatically assume something funny's going on. You probably know that Scientists claim valid reasons for adjusting data when and where they do. If anybody wants to get an idea of some of these valid reasons check out this article. I'll quote a bit of it. My point is it shouldn't be assumed adjust=falsify.

"There has been much discussion of temperature adjustment of late in both climate blogs and in the media, but not much background on what specific adjustments are being made, why they are being made, and what effects they have. Adjustments have a big effect on temperature trends in the U.S., and a modest effect on global land trends. The large contribution of adjustments to century-scale U.S. temperature trends lends itself to an unfortunate narrative that “government bureaucrats are cooking the books”.
Nearly every single station in the network in the network has been moved at least once over the last century, with many having 3 or more distinct moves. Most of the stations have changed from using liquid in glass thermometers (LiG) inStevenson screens to electronic Minimum Maximum Temperature Systems(MMTS) or Automated Surface Observing Systems (ASOS). Observation times have shifted from afternoon to morning at most stations since 1960, as part of an effort by the National Weather Service to improve precipitation measurements.

All of these changes introduce (non-random) systemic biases into the network. For example, MMTS sensors tend to read maximum daily temperatures about 0.5 C colder than LiG thermometers at the same location. There is a very obvious cooling bias in the record associated with the conversion of most co-op stations from LiG to MMTS in the 1980s, and even folks deeply skeptical of the temperature network like Anthony Watts and his coauthors add an explicit correction for this in their paper."

 

[Flash]

Scientist first came up with a theory that because burning fossil fuels produces CO2 gasses then the CO2 will produce a greenhouse effect on earth raising temperatures.

That was a valid theory. They even looked at preliminary data that showed a rough correlation between atmospheric CO2 levels and world wide temperatures and it showed a rise in both.

However, then is where the real science began to fall apart and the scam began.

Because the initial correlation showed rise in CO2 levels and temperature there was a lot of money put into research. The research mostly consisted of computer modeling.

The science was distorted in order to provide the computer models with the data to support the theory to continue with the funding sources.

For instance, the data that shows historically that CO2 levels lag temperature was ignored. The lag was both in the increase in temperature and the decrease sides.

Data showing that in the past the CO2 levels were ten times higher but yet the earth was much cooler and data showing that at times the CO2 levels were lower but yet the earth was warmer were mostly ignored in the computer models.

World wide temperature data was manipulated like we saw in Al Gore's hockey stick picture where data was cherry picked. When the scientist used all the data then the picture was different.

Assumptions were made about historical temperatures that were indefensible based upon the sparse data collected. “World wide temperature data” was based upon some very flimsy tree ring and ice samples in just a few locations and temperature measurements, mostly in the universities in Europe and North America, in the last couple of hundred years at best. Southern Hemisphere data was very sparse and large areas like Siberia and Asia were mostly ignored not to mention most of Africa and South America.

The empirical data about how CO2 really chemically reacts in the atmosphere were mostly ignored. CO2 does not react the same in real life that it does in the theoretical computer models. The chemistry in the atmosphere is much more complex than the computer models forecast. Rain washes out most of the CO2 in the atmosphere.

Then there was the Climategate revelations that data was manipulated by the scientists in order to prove what could not be proven with real data. This really blew the whistle on the scam. In addition to that we have the fact that both NASA and NOAA have been manipulating data.

Then you have the fact that after 30 years of this theory there is no credible evidence that the climate on earth is getting warmer due to man made influence. In fact the climate has been relatively stable for the last 15 years despite counties like China putting out tremendous more amounts of CO2 gasses. There is very credible evidence that the earth may be moving back into another mini ice age like happens every few hundred years. The last one was in medieval times.

We also need to understand that the “normal” temperature of the earth has been warmer than now with little permanent ice on the planet. That is the way it has been for a substantial part of the existence of the earth. This age of ice that we are in now is only about 2.7 million years old. However, there were other times in the Cryogenian period and the Late Ordovician Period where we had “snowball earth”.

AGW is just bad science because it has become a political issue. It has nothing to do with real science and more to do with the redistribution of wealth from the industrialized countries to the Third World. That is the real root of the scam.

I gave your post an "informative" rating because I think you put some thought into this "conspiracy" business and your anti-GW view isn't just a right-wing anti-Obama paranoid rant. And the information you present, such as "We also need to understand that the “normal” temperature of the earth has been warmer than now with little permanent ice on the planet." is worth considering and investigating as evidence in the debate. Still, I find it highly unlikely that this is correct;

"However, then is where the real science began to fall apart and the scam began.
Because the initial correlation showed rise in CO2 levels and temperature there was a lot of money put into research. The research mostly consisted of computer modeling.
The science was distorted in order to provide the computer models with the data to support the theory to continue with the funding sources."

That isn't information, it's opinion. And it's an opinion that is so cynically conspiracy rooted that I put it in that list of conspiracy theories with the 9/11's and the Bilderbergers/NWO's. I can't find a way to believe that the vast majority of Scientists in the field would risk their life's work and reputation by falsifying data in the hopes of receiving short term grant money or whatever sources of funds that you're referring to. Most of them would be risking their positions and livelihood by getting involved in such a conspiracy. Anyway thanks for giving me some info to check out and digest.

I am an Environmental Engineer that has worked in the business of cleaning up pollution for 30 years. I occasionally teach Environmental Science in college and spend significant time in the class discussing AGW. I am not an expert on climate change but I do recognize a scam in science when I see it. Before teaching the class I did quite of bit of research because I wanted to make sure that I was presenting facts. The scam is blatant if you take the time to do the research.

I would have no problem accepting this AGW theory if it was supported by facts. However, I don't see the facts. What I see is data manipulation and that is why I came to the opinion that it is a scam. It is very obvious to anybody that would take the time to see how this scam evolved.

I speculate that the scam has been advanced because of research funding issues but it very well could have been perpetrated because of a core group of a scientists with a Ted Kaczynski (Unibomber) type mindset. Maybe it is a combination of both. Who really knows why scientists would fabricate an obvious scam? Just follow the money is the best explanation.

It is too bad that it has become a Left v Right issue because that really distorts the analysis of the science. After Climategate I & II revealed that the principal climate scientists had an agenda and also manipulated data and after the revelation that NASA and NOAA manipulated data because of political pressure and after the facts emerged that there was massive fudge factors use to change data and knowing that it has been a political and economic agenda of the UN and most third world countries who can believe anything?

It is like the Left has developed a religious cult and it is not based on science.

On a personal note I am not afraid of climate change. Climate change is a fact of life on earth no matter if it is natural or man made. Humans will adapt to the change in the future just like they did in the past.

I think the danger due to massive disruption with getting off a fossil fuel economy and transitioning to a uneconomical "green" economy is much greater than climate change even if there is a man made component to it, which has really not been proven.

If we are going to destroy the economies of the industrialized world then we need to have a darn good reason. The flimsy data on potential minor man made climate changes doesn't even come close to meeting the criteria.

 

[Old Rocks]

Scientist first came up with a theory that because burning fossil fuels produces CO2 gasses then the CO2 will produce a greenhouse effect on earth raising temperatures.

That was a valid theory. They even looked at preliminary data that showed a rough correlation between atmospheric CO2 levels and world wide temperatures and it showed a rise in both.

However, then is where the real science began to fall apart and the scam began.

Because the initial correlation showed rise in CO2 levels and temperature there was a lot of money put into research. The research mostly consisted of computer modeling.

The science was distorted in order to provide the computer models with the data to support the theory to continue with the funding sources.

For instance, the data that shows historically that CO2 levels lag temperature was ignored. The lag was both in the increase in temperature and the decrease sides.

Data showing that in the past the CO2 levels were ten times higher but yet the earth was much cooler and data showing that at times the CO2 levels were lower but yet the earth was warmer were mostly ignored in the computer models.

World wide temperature data was manipulated like we saw in Al Gore's hockey stick picture where data was cherry picked. When the scientist used all the data then the picture was different.

Assumptions were made about historical temperatures that were indefensible based upon the sparse data collected. “World wide temperature data” was based upon some very flimsy tree ring and ice samples in just a few locations and temperature measurements, mostly in the universities in Europe and North America, in the last couple of hundred years at best. Southern Hemisphere data was very sparse and large areas like Siberia and Asia were mostly ignored not to mention most of Africa and South America.

The empirical data about how CO2 really chemically reacts in the atmosphere were mostly ignored. CO2 does not react the same in real life that it does in the theoretical computer models. The chemistry in the atmosphere is much more complex than the computer models forecast. Rain washes out most of the CO2 in the atmosphere.

Then there was the Climategate revelations that data was manipulated by the scientists in order to prove what could not be proven with real data. This really blew the whistle on the scam. In addition to that we have the fact that both NASA and NOAA have been manipulating data.

Then you have the fact that after 30 years of this theory there is no credible evidence that the climate on earth is getting warmer due to man made influence. In fact the climate has been relatively stable for the last 15 years despite counties like China putting out tremendous more amounts of CO2 gasses. There is very credible evidence that the earth may be moving back into another mini ice age like happens every few hundred years. The last one was in medieval times.

We also need to understand that the “normal” temperature of the earth has been warmer than now with little permanent ice on the planet. That is the way it has been for a substantial part of the existence of the earth. This age of ice that we are in now is only about 2.7 million years old. However, there were other times in the Cryogenian period and the Late Ordovician Period where we had “snowball earth”.

AGW is just bad science because it has become a political issue. It has nothing to do with real science and more to do with the redistribution of wealth from the industrialized countries to the Third World. That is the real root of the scam.

I gave your post an "informative" rating because I think you put some thought into this "conspiracy" business and your anti-GW view isn't just a right-wing anti-Obama paranoid rant. And the information you present, such as "We also need to understand that the “normal” temperature of the earth has been warmer than now with little permanent ice on the planet." is worth considering and investigating as evidence in the debate. Still, I find it highly unlikely that this is correct;

"However, then is where the real science began to fall apart and the scam began.
Because the initial correlation showed rise in CO2 levels and temperature there was a lot of money put into research. The research mostly consisted of computer modeling.
The science was distorted in order to provide the computer models with the data to support the theory to continue with the funding sources."

That isn't information, it's opinion. And it's an opinion that is so cynically conspiracy rooted that I put it in that list of conspiracy theories with the 9/11's and the Bilderbergers/NWO's. I can't find a way to believe that the vast majority of Scientists in the field would risk their life's work and reputation by falsifying data in the hopes of receiving short term grant money or whatever sources of funds that you're referring to. Most of them would be risking their positions and livelihood by getting involved in such a conspiracy. Anyway thanks for giving me some info to check out and digest.

I am an Environmental Engineer that has worked in the business of cleaning up pollution for 30 years. I occasionally teach Environmental Science in college and spend significant time in the class discussing AGW. I am not an expert on climate change but I do recognize a scam in science when I see it. Before teaching the class I did quite of bit of research because I wanted to make sure that I was presenting facts. The scam is blatant if you take the time to do the research.

I would have no problem accepting this AGW theory if it was supported by facts. However, I don't see the facts. What I see is data manipulation and that is why I came to the opinion that it is a scam. It is very obvious to anybody that would take the time to see how this scam evolved.

I speculate that the scam has been advanced because of research funding issues but it very well could have been perpetrated because of a core group of a scientists with a Ted Kaczynski (Unibomber) type mindset. Maybe it is a combination of both. Who really knows why scientists would fabricate an obvious scam? Just follow the money is the best explanation.

It is too bad that it has become a Left v Right issue because that really distorts the analysis of the science. After Climategate I & II revealed that the principal climate scientists had an agenda and also manipulated data and after the revelation that NASA and NOAA manipulated data because of political pressure and after the facts emerged that there was massive fudge factors use to change data and knowing that it has been a political and economic agenda of the UN and most third world countries who can believe anything?

It is like the Left has developed a religious cult and it is not based on science.

On a personal note I am not afraid of climate change. Climate change is a fact of life on earth no matter if it is natural or man made. Humans will adapt to the change in the future just like they did in the past.

I think the danger due to massive disruption with getting off a fossil fuel economy and transitioning to a uneconomical "green" economy is much greater than climate change even if there is a man made component to it, which has really not been proven.

If we are going to destroy the economies of the industrialized world then we need to have a darn good reason. The flimsy data on potential minor man made climate changes doesn't even come close to meeting the criteria.

Really? Environmental Engineer? Is that like the engineers that take an introductory course in geology, then label themselves Geological Engineers, and claim they know more about geology than Phd Geologists?

As for the rest of your ridiculous rant, you branded yourself one silly ignoramous throughout. Perhaps if you started taking some courses in physics, you might not sound so damned ignorant.

The Carbon Dioxide Greenhouse Effect

Here is a link to the site of the American Institute of Physics, which will provide you with a basic understanding of how the greenhouse gases work.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

[Q

So yes then? You feel the world's gov'ts are dumber than you. Good to know.

Absolutely!

I am an Environmental Engineer that spent 30 years in the field. I have actually cleaned up more pollution than 10,000 environmental wackos will ever see in their lives. The idiots that are elected by special interest groups to run governments wouldn't know what a pollutant was if it was to bite them in the ass.

Leaders and governments don't do the smart thing. They do the political thing and if that means catering to environmental wackos then so be it. There is a big difference between the two.

Government has given us $19 trillion in debt. That is a dumb thing to do. My household is debt free, which is smart. Who is the dumb one there? If you think that this government or any other government is not dumb or don't do stupid things like participate in this AGW scam then you are a very naive person.

Impossible that you know anything about climate science and believe that 400ppm means nothing. You are arrogant to say the least.

so what does 400PPM of CO2 mean? Come now genius tell us your experiment that shows the dangers of 400 PPM. What, ain't got one? Then you must have meant something else with that post.

You can't even prove hottest summer eva, and yet here you are arguing for it. I laugh at little fks like you.

I'm done with you. You're just a noisy little troll running interference with nothing ever to add. Buh bye.

You are done with me because I am telling you things you don't want to hear. At least be honest about it. This AGW scam is the point of being a religion to you Moon Bats and you don't like anybody challenging your faith.

Being an Environmental Engineer I have no problem in acknowledging man made climate change if the facts prove it. However, the facts don't prove it. Not even close. That is why the scammers have to fabricate data.

You are naive and stupid to believe in this AGW scam. The sooner you understand that the sooner you will be able to pull your head out of your ass.

Was that addressed to you professor?

What is the process that negates the greenhouse effect of CO2?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

[Q

So yes then? You feel the world's gov'ts are dumber than you. Good to know.

Absolutely!

I am an Environmental Engineer that spent 30 years in the field. I have actually cleaned up more pollution than 10,000 environmental wackos will ever see in their lives. The idiots that are elected by special interest groups to run governments wouldn't know what a pollutant was if it was to bite them in the ass.

Leaders and governments don't do the smart thing. They do the political thing and if that means catering to environmental wackos then so be it. There is a big difference between the two.

Government has given us $19 trillion in debt. That is a dumb thing to do. My household is debt free, which is smart. Who is the dumb one there? If you think that this government or any other government is not dumb or don't do stupid things like participate in this AGW scam then you are a very naive person.

Impossible that you know anything about climate science and believe that 400ppm means nothing. You are arrogant to say the least.

so what does 400PPM of CO2 mean? Come now genius tell us your experiment that shows the dangers of 400 PPM. What, ain't got one? Then you must have meant something else with that post.

You can't even prove hottest summer eva, and yet here you are arguing for it. I laugh at little fks like you.

It means we have 400 PPM CO2 in the atmosphere. So what? CO2 has been increasing since the end of the last Ice Age. During that time we have had climate both warmer and cooler than it is now.

Increased CO2 concentrations generally lags increased temperature changes which is a fact that the scammers fail to recognize although the data is conclusive on that.

It was a theory that CO2 gases in the concentrations of the industrial age was going to cause a greenhouse effect. It was worthwhile to look into. However, the theory didn't pan out in real life because the complexity of the chemistry in the atmosphere didn't react the way the computer models said it would. That is the reason the scammers have been using fabricated data on real measurements and that is why we can't trust anything they say. That is also the reason that their hasn't been any real warming of the planet for the last 15 years or so and that many scientist think we are heading for another mini ice age in the next couple of decades.

However, if you are naive and stupid and want to believe the scam even in with the revelation of tremendous data fabrication by the scammers then go right ahead Sport. There is a sucker born every minute.

CO2 has been increasing since the end of the last Ice Age.

Yes it has but that's not the whole story. CO2 has been rising at a much greater rate since the start of the industrial revolution. CO2 rates are more than 100% higher now than during the ice ages.

 

[Flash]

[

Really? Environmental Engineer? Is that like the engineers that take an introductory course in geology, then label themselves Geological Engineers, and claim they know more about geology than Phd Geologists?

As for the rest of your ridiculous rant, you branded yourself one silly ignoramous throughout. Perhaps if you started taking some courses in physics, you might not sound so damned ignorant.

The Carbon Dioxide Greenhouse Effect

Here is a link to the site of the American Institute of Physics, which will provide you with a basic understanding of how the greenhouse gases work.

Half the curriculum was Chemical engineering to learn about air pollution. The other half was Civil to learn about water.

I am a PE certified in four states. What are you? Have you ever taken a PE exam? Do you even know how to spell environmental? Would you know what pollution was if you ever saw it? Have you ever cleaned any contamination up like say at one of the major sites in the nuclear weapons complex? Have you ever prepared a permit a nuclear plant or permitted a fossil fuel power generation plant?

When you have then get back to me and we will see what you really know about this environmental field.

Theoretical articles like that are interesting to read but have very little value in explaining the observed atmosphere. If you had any training in science or engineering you would know that. Listening to Rachael Maddow on MSNBC isn't going to tell you that. The fact that the theoretical predictions do not correspond to the observed data is what led the scammers to fabricate data. That is the heart of the scam. They simply got it wrong. That is why I live 60 miles inland in Florida and don't have beach front property because 20 years ago the scammers said I would be living on the beach by now.

I am not an expert on climate but I have enough of a science background to recognize a science scam when I see it. This one is a no brainer.

AGW is probably the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on humans. Too bad you Moon Bats have fell for it hook, line and sinker. It just makes you look like fools. I actually feel sorry for you. I hate to see gullible naive people fall for such an obvious lie.

 

[Flash]

For you Moon Bats that are confused about the AGW scam let me explain it to you very concisely.

The theories and the models predicted that CO2 was a greenhouse gas that would cause a significant warming of the earth.

Most scientists agree that in the methodology and basic science used in formulating the theories were sound, hence the "agreement" that you hear of.

However, when field measurement were made then it was discovered that the temperature data did not correspond to the predictions.

Instead of agreeing that they were wrong a significant number of scientist that had funding to do research began to manipulate and fabricate data to fit heir hypothesis.

The scam is really as simple as that.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Water in the atmosphere absorbs and washes out most of the CO2 before it can react in a greenhouse manner and that is why the data fails in real life.

So professor, water "washes" the CO2 out of the atmosphere before it can react in a greenhouse manner? Is that your scholarly answer? The water absorbs CO2 at atmospheric pressure? So we have carbonated rain as it falls? Hmm, fizzy rain.

American Chemical Society

Half the curriculum was Chemical engineering to learn about air pollution. The other half was Civil to learn about water.

What is the chemical process called that "washes" CO2 from the atmosphere thereby negating it's greenhouse effect?
How does water change the chemical properties of CO2 at atmospheric temperature and pressure?

I am an Environmental Engineer that has worked in the business of cleaning up pollution for 30 years. I occasionally teach Environmental Science in college and spend significant time in the class discussing AGW. I am not an expert on climate change but I do recognize a scam in science when I see it. Before teaching the class I did quite of bit of research because I wanted to make sure that I was presenting facts. The scam is blatant if you take the time to do the research.

You're right. Your scam is absolutely blatant and poorly thought out.

 

[jc456]

[Q

So yes then? You feel the world's gov'ts are dumber than you. Good to know.

Absolutely!

I am an Environmental Engineer that spent 30 years in the field. I have actually cleaned up more pollution than 10,000 environmental wackos will ever see in their lives. The idiots that are elected by special interest groups to run governments wouldn't know what a pollutant was if it was to bite them in the ass.

Leaders and governments don't do the smart thing. They do the political thing and if that means catering to environmental wackos then so be it. There is a big difference between the two.

Government has given us $19 trillion in debt. That is a dumb thing to do. My household is debt free, which is smart. Who is the dumb one there? If you think that this government or any other government is not dumb or don't do stupid things like participate in this AGW scam then you are a very naive person.

Impossible that you know anything about climate science and believe that 400ppm means nothing. You are arrogant to say the least.

so what does 400PPM of CO2 mean? Come now genius tell us your experiment that shows the dangers of 400 PPM. What, ain't got one? Then you must have meant something else with that post.

You can't even prove hottest summer eva, and yet here you are arguing for it. I laugh at little fks like you.

It means we have 400 PPM CO2 in the atmosphere. So what? CO2 has been increasing since the end of the last Ice Age. During that time we have had climate both warmer and cooler than it is now.

Increased CO2 concentrations generally lags increased temperature changes which is a fact that the scammers fail to recognize although the data is conclusive on that.

It was a theory that CO2 gases in the concentrations of the industrial age was going to cause a greenhouse effect. It was worthwhile to look into. However, the theory didn't pan out in real life because the complexity of the chemistry in the atmosphere didn't react the way the computer models said it would. That is the reason the scammers have been using fabricated data on real measurements and that is why we can't trust anything they say. That is also the reason that their hasn't been any real warming of the planet for the last 15 years or so and that many scientist think we are heading for another mini ice age in the next couple of decades.

However, if you are naive and stupid and want to believe the scam even in with the revelation of tremendous data fabrication by the scammers then go right ahead Sport. There is a sucker born every minute.

CO2 has been increasing since the end of the last Ice Age.

Yes it has but that's not the whole story. CO2 has been rising at a much greater rate since the start of the industrial revolution. CO2 rates are more than 100% higher now than during the ice ages.

so what? what is evil about added CO2? Do you have evidence it's evil? But it isn't that they cause added heat to the atmosphere unless of course you know the temperature difference between 280 PPM environment and a 400 PPM environment. If you have a test, post it. Oh, no modelling is not a test.

 

[mamooth]

For instance, the data that shows historically that CO2 levels lag temperature was ignored. The lag was both in the increase in temperature and the decrease sides.

You fail at the basic logic, which explains how you got sucked into the denier cult. People who can use logic properly will instantly see through the scams of the denier cult.

As I've pointed out to you before, and which you had no response to, your statement is wrong on two levels.

First, new data shows CO2 and temps rather close together.

Second, it doesn't matter. The past is not constrained to act like the present if conditions in the present are very different, and they are. Forest fires used to always be natural, but humans can still cause forest fires. Warming used to always be natural, but humans can still cause warming.

Data showing that in the past the CO2 levels were ten times higher but yet the earth was much cooler and data showing that at times the CO2 levels were lower but yet the earth was warmer were mostly ignored in the computer models.

No data is being ignored, except by you, over and over. Here, the smart people understood CO2 isn't the only climate driver. You seem to think global warming theory says nothing except CO2 can change climate, but your failure to grasp such basics is only your problem.

World wide temperature data was manipulated like we saw in Al Gore's hockey stick picture where data was cherry picked. When the scientist used all the data then the picture was different.

That kind of conspiracy kookery is unworthy of a response from any ethical person, other than a snort of derision. Sure, it plays well in your conspiracy cult, but the rest of the world knows it's nonsense, and repeating your conspiracy nonsense over and over won't change that.

Rain washes out most of the CO2 in the atmosphere.

Your science is hilariously bad. Like Hutch, I'd like to see you support that strange claim. Are you up for the challenge, or will you just declare that the foundations of your religion may not be challenged?

 

[jc456]

For instance, the data that shows historically that CO2 levels lag temperature was ignored. The lag was both in the increase in temperature and the decrease sides.

You fail at the basic logic, which explains how you got sucked into the denier cult. People who can use logic properly will instantly see through the scams of the denier cult.

As I've pointed out to you before, and which you had no response to, your statement is wrong on two levels.

First, new data shows CO2 and temps rather close together.

Second, it doesn't matter. The past is not constrained to act like the present if conditions in the present are very different, and they are. Forest fires used to always be natural, but humans can still cause forest fires. Warming used to always be natural, but humans can still cause warming.

Data showing that in the past the CO2 levels were ten times higher but yet the earth was much cooler and data showing that at times the CO2 levels were lower but yet the earth was warmer were mostly ignored in the computer models.

No data is being ignored, except by you, over and over. Here, the smart people understood CO2 isn't the only climate driver. You seem to think global warming theory says nothing except CO2 can change climate, but your failure to grasp such basics is only your problem.

World wide temperature data was manipulated like we saw in Al Gore's hockey stick picture where data was cherry picked. When the scientist used all the data then the picture was different.

That kind of conspiracy kookery is unworthy of a response from any ethical person, other than a snort of derision. Sure, it plays well in your conspiracy cult, but the rest of the world knows it's nonsense, and repeating your conspiracy nonsense over and over won't change that.

Rain washes out most of the CO2 in the atmosphere.

Your science is hilariously bad. Like Hutch, I'd like to see you support that strange claim. Are you up for the challenge, or will you just declare that the foundations of your religion may not be challenged?

First, new data shows CO2 and temps rather close together.

So technogeek, how is CO2 released from the ocean? is it released when surface temps are cold or warm?

And, can you prove that CO2 drives climate? You merely pointed to a correlation, not a causation. It is the trick of the left to use and think everyone just buy into that. Nope, the fact is, there are no experiments. And the fact that the last 18 years of pause while CO2 has increased in the atmosphere is but proof that your causation ploy is just that a ploy. Temperature drives CO2 and why CO2 only releases from the ocean when the surface temps are warmer. Unless of course great technogeek, you can prove otherwise.

 

[Old Rocks]

Flash;

Water in the atmosphere absorbs and washes out most of the CO2 before it can react in a greenhouse manner and that is why the data fails in real life. That is why we have haven't measured any real significant climate change in the last 15 years and we may be even heading for a mini ice age in a couple of decades even though the CO2 level is increasing.

I missed that bit of nonsense. OK, bullshit artist, we know you know nothing of science now. You are just another lying silly bastard like Silly Billy. And rain does not 'wash' CO2 out of the air, or else we would not be measuring 400 ppm worldwide.