House Votes To Overturn Obama Rule Restricting Gun Sales To the Severely Mentally Ill

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It seems some of the left wing bellowing herd on this thread haven't bothered to read it and are still spouting false information. Your points were disproved pages ago but it seems repetition is needed for the mentally deficient liars of the left. From Pupps' post 126...again

The ACLU disagrees with you and favors repeal of the rule for the reasons I mentioned earlier in the thread.

https://waysandmeans.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ACLU.pdf

Your source is also wrong concerning being legally declared incompetent as a requirement to be put on the list. It is not, it is triggered merely by having your SS check go to someone other than the recipient. As follows per the ACLU:

In December 2016, the SSA promulgated a final rule that would require the names of all Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) and Supplemental Security Income (SSI) benefit recipients – who, because of a mental impairment, use a representative payee to help manage their benefits – be submitted to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), which is used during gun purchases.
We oppose this rule because it advances and reinforces the harmful stereotype that people with mental disabilities, a vast and diverse group of citizens, are violent. There is no data to support a connection between the need for a representative payee to manage one’s Social Security disability benefits and a propensity toward gun violence. The rule further demonstrates the damaging phenomenon of “spread,” or the perception that a disabled individual with one area of impairment automatically has additional, negative and unrelated attributes. Here, the rule automatically conflates one disability-related characteristic, that is, difficulty managing money, with the inability to safely possess a firearm.

The rule includes no meaningful due process protections prior to the SSA’s transmittal of names to the NICS database. The determination by SSA line staff that a beneficiary needs a representative payee to manage their money benefit is simply not an “adjudication” in any ordinary meaning of the word. Nor is it a determination that the person “[l]acks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs” as required by the NICS. Indeed, the law and the SSA clearly state that representative payees are appointed for many individuals who are legally competent.

Oh, I read it alright. You misrepresent what it says. And the ACLU is wrong on this one. That should not be surprising to you righties. For instance, from your link that you claim was not read.

who, because of a mental impairment, use a representative payee to help manage their benefits

So, there is no argument here. We are talking about people with a mental impairment that prevents them from being able to adequately handle their finances. If they show up at a jewelry store and purchases a big fat diamond for Vanna White, well the store has to take it back. If they show up at a furniture store and purchase a whole house of furniture, when the custodian gets wind of it the purchase is canceled, no penalty, it is the LAW. Honestly, they can waltz in to a gun store and purchase all the guns they want. When the custodian gets wind of it, the gun store has to take the guns back and refund all the money.

So, why should this person's name not be in the NICS database? The sale would most likely be voided after the custodian finds out. Hardly believe the purchase of a gun would qualify as a needed expense. Definitely going to be flagged when the Department of Social Services reviews the expenditures. Seems even the gun store owner would want that protection. Otherwise, the sale is going to be a huge waste of time.

And the "due process" argument of the ACLU is futile. Nobody is randomly assigned a representative payee. The beneficiary can nominate whomever they like. They can change their representative whenever they like. If they don't believe they should be assigned a representative payee they can appeal the decision, in other words, "adjudicate". If they believe they no longer need a representative payee they can file a motion and once again, have it "adjudicated".

So, in short. The people on this list CAN legally own a gun. They cannot legally buy a gun, or a diamond ring, or a house of furniture, or about damn near anything else without the approval of their custodian subject to review by Social Services. Since they can't legally buy a gun their name should be placed on the NICS database.

What do we get if we don't put their name on the database? Can the individuals now buy a gun legally? No. Again, the only thing that is protected is the gun dealers right to remain ignorant. And the only thing that accomplishes is providing a loophole within our system in which a legally determined mentally incompetent person can gain temporary access to a gun by making an illegal purchase through an unknowing gun dealer.

STEWPYD.

And you are wrong...this is still just an attempt to grab guns as a last minute thrill for obama....since this is not a problem in our country........and it scoops up people who are not dangerous and denies them their right to own and use a gun for self defense.....

At this point, this far in the thread, and still clutching on to that bit of alternative facts, you are being willfully ignorant. Why not spend a few moments investigating just what a Representative Payee within the Social Security program really is, how it works, how they are assigned, what they can spend money on and what they can't. I mean this whole uproar is really beyond stewpyd. Nobody, and I mean nobody, is paying any attention at all. This Trump administration is a bunch of bumbling idiots way out of their element. No way in hell they should have reversed this policy. It was an NRA power play, a probe, a test. Now they know they can do whatever the hell they want to do. Mostly because of WILLFUL IGNORANCE.

No, you are using your own personal anecdote to claim all sorts of things not in evidence. THAT is the problem I have with your comments.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It seems some of the left wing bellowing herd on this thread haven't bothered to read it and are still spouting false information. Your points were disproved pages ago but it seems repetition is needed for the mentally deficient liars of the left. From Pupps' post 126...again

The ACLU disagrees with you and favors repeal of the rule for the reasons I mentioned earlier in the thread.

https://waysandmeans.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ACLU.pdf

Your source is also wrong concerning being legally declared incompetent as a requirement to be put on the list. It is not, it is triggered merely by having your SS check go to someone other than the recipient. As follows per the ACLU:

In December 2016, the SSA promulgated a final rule that would require the names of all Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) and Supplemental Security Income (SSI) benefit recipients – who, because of a mental impairment, use a representative payee to help manage their benefits – be submitted to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), which is used during gun purchases.
We oppose this rule because it advances and reinforces the harmful stereotype that people with mental disabilities, a vast and diverse group of citizens, are violent. There is no data to support a connection between the need for a representative payee to manage one’s Social Security disability benefits and a propensity toward gun violence. The rule further demonstrates the damaging phenomenon of “spread,” or the perception that a disabled individual with one area of impairment automatically has additional, negative and unrelated attributes. Here, the rule automatically conflates one disability-related characteristic, that is, difficulty managing money, with the inability to safely possess a firearm.

The rule includes no meaningful due process protections prior to the SSA’s transmittal of names to the NICS database. The determination by SSA line staff that a beneficiary needs a representative payee to manage their money benefit is simply not an “adjudication” in any ordinary meaning of the word. Nor is it a determination that the person “[l]acks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs” as required by the NICS. Indeed, the law and the SSA clearly state that representative payees are appointed for many individuals who are legally competent.

Oh, I read it alright. You misrepresent what it says. And the ACLU is wrong on this one. That should not be surprising to you righties. For instance, from your link that you claim was not read.

who, because of a mental impairment, use a representative payee to help manage their benefits

So, there is no argument here. We are talking about people with a mental impairment that prevents them from being able to adequately handle their finances. If they show up at a jewelry store and purchases a big fat diamond for Vanna White, well the store has to take it back. If they show up at a furniture store and purchase a whole house of furniture, when the custodian gets wind of it the purchase is canceled, no penalty, it is the LAW. Honestly, they can waltz in to a gun store and purchase all the guns they want. When the custodian gets wind of it, the gun store has to take the guns back and refund all the money.

So, why should this person's name not be in the NICS database? The sale would most likely be voided after the custodian finds out. Hardly believe the purchase of a gun would qualify as a needed expense. Definitely going to be flagged when the Department of Social Services reviews the expenditures. Seems even the gun store owner would want that protection. Otherwise, the sale is going to be a huge waste of time.

And the "due process" argument of the ACLU is futile. Nobody is randomly assigned a representative payee. The beneficiary can nominate whomever they like. They can change their representative whenever they like. If they don't believe they should be assigned a representative payee they can appeal the decision, in other words, "adjudicate". If they believe they no longer need a representative payee they can file a motion and once again, have it "adjudicated".

STEWPYD.

The NCIS doesn't track sales or know what the fuck you're buying, only that you haven't had a problem. Stwpyd is right. Go get some basic info instead of pontificating and pulling scenarios out of your ass.

Nope, the NCIS doesn't track sales or know what the fuck someone is buying. But, Social Services DOES TRACK PURCHASES made through a Representative Payee Account. Reports have to be filed. Purchases have to be justified. A gun requiring a permit would not be justified. The gun would be returned, the gun store owner would be required to refund the entire purchase price and more than likely get a dressing down for conducting a financial transaction with a mentally incompetent individual.

So tell me, why should this person's name not be in the database?

Show us a link to the SS Administration backing any of this up! My bet is that you are simply confusing two unrelated issues.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

This is seriously fucked up.


House Votes To Overturn Obama Rule Restricting Gun Sales To the Severely Mentally Ill

According to NPR's Susan Davis, the measure being blocked from implementation would have required the Social Security Administration to send records of some beneficiaries with severe mental disabilities to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System. About 75,000 people found mentally incapable of managing their financial affairs would have been affected.


The National Rifle Association had pushed for the repeal, and Republicans argued it infringed upon Second Amendment rights by denying due process.


Supporters of the rule argued it was designed to stop mentally ill persons from getting firearms.


"The House charged ahead with an extreme, hastily written, one-sided measure that would make the American people less safe," Rep. Elizabeth Esty, D-Conn., said, according to The Hill. Esty represents Newtown, Conn., where a mentally ill man shot and killed 20 six- and seven-year-olds and six adults.

Have you read the bill? Do you know exactly what's in it? I don't and since I don't I can't pass judgment on it. I suspect you don't either but will bitch anyway....

Gotta pass the bill to find out what's in it

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It seems some of the left wing bellowing herd on this thread haven't bothered to read it and are still spouting false information. Your points were disproved pages ago but it seems repetition is needed for the mentally deficient liars of the left. From Pupps' post 126...again

The ACLU disagrees with you and favors repeal of the rule for the reasons I mentioned earlier in the thread.

https://waysandmeans.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ACLU.pdf

Your source is also wrong concerning being legally declared incompetent as a requirement to be put on the list. It is not, it is triggered merely by having your SS check go to someone other than the recipient. As follows per the ACLU:

In December 2016, the SSA promulgated a final rule that would require the names of all Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) and Supplemental Security Income (SSI) benefit recipients – who, because of a mental impairment, use a representative payee to help manage their benefits – be submitted to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), which is used during gun purchases.
We oppose this rule because it advances and reinforces the harmful stereotype that people with mental disabilities, a vast and diverse group of citizens, are violent. There is no data to support a connection between the need for a representative payee to manage one’s Social Security disability benefits and a propensity toward gun violence. The rule further demonstrates the damaging phenomenon of “spread,” or the perception that a disabled individual with one area of impairment automatically has additional, negative and unrelated attributes. Here, the rule automatically conflates one disability-related characteristic, that is, difficulty managing money, with the inability to safely possess a firearm.

The rule includes no meaningful due process protections prior to the SSA’s transmittal of names to the NICS database. The determination by SSA line staff that a beneficiary needs a representative payee to manage their money benefit is simply not an “adjudication” in any ordinary meaning of the word. Nor is it a determination that the person “[l]acks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs” as required by the NICS. Indeed, the law and the SSA clearly state that representative payees are appointed for many individuals who are legally competent.

Oh, I read it alright. You misrepresent what it says. And the ACLU is wrong on this one. That should not be surprising to you righties. For instance, from your link that you claim was not read.

who, because of a mental impairment, use a representative payee to help manage their benefits

So, there is no argument here. We are talking about people with a mental impairment that prevents them from being able to adequately handle their finances. If they show up at a jewelry store and purchases a big fat diamond for Vanna White, well the store has to take it back. If they show up at a furniture store and purchase a whole house of furniture, when the custodian gets wind of it the purchase is canceled, no penalty, it is the LAW. Honestly, they can waltz in to a gun store and purchase all the guns they want. When the custodian gets wind of it, the gun store has to take the guns back and refund all the money.

So, why should this person's name not be in the NICS database? The sale would most likely be voided after the custodian finds out. Hardly believe the purchase of a gun would qualify as a needed expense. Definitely going to be flagged when the Department of Social Services reviews the expenditures. Seems even the gun store owner would want that protection. Otherwise, the sale is going to be a huge waste of time.

And the "due process" argument of the ACLU is futile. Nobody is randomly assigned a representative payee. The beneficiary can nominate whomever they like. They can change their representative whenever they like. If they don't believe they should be assigned a representative payee they can appeal the decision, in other words, "adjudicate". If they believe they no longer need a representative payee they can file a motion and once again, have it "adjudicated".

STEWPYD.

The NCIS doesn't track sales or know what the fuck you're buying, only that you haven't had a problem. Stwpyd is right. Go get some basic info instead of pontificating and pulling scenarios out of your ass.

Nope, the NCIS doesn't track sales or know what the fuck someone is buying. But, Social Services DOES TRACK PURCHASES made through a Representative Payee Account. Reports have to be filed. Purchases have to be justified. A gun requiring a permit would not be justified. The gun would be returned, the gun store owner would be required to refund the entire purchase price and more than likely get a dressing down for conducting a financial transaction with a mentally incompetent individual.

So tell me, why should this person's name not be in the database?

Guns don't require permits to own in almost all of America. Where the rest of your shit comes from was already mentioned.

Who said anything about owning. The people this pertains to can own all the guns they want. I already said that. They just can't buy them if it requires a permit. I even admitted they could buy a shotgun or rifle. Hell, they could buy a handgun at a gun show or from a private individual. Why is it that, even though they can't legally buy a gun requiring a permit, you want their name removed from a database of people that, wait for it, CAN'T LEGALLY BUY A GUN REQUIRING A PERMIT? How the hell does that make sense?

What part of "no permit required" did you not understand?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

This is seriously fucked up.


House Votes To Overturn Obama Rule Restricting Gun Sales To the Severely Mentally Ill

According to NPR's Susan Davis, the measure being blocked from implementation would have required the Social Security Administration to send records of some beneficiaries with severe mental disabilities to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System. About 75,000 people found mentally incapable of managing their financial affairs would have been affected.


The National Rifle Association had pushed for the repeal, and Republicans argued it infringed upon Second Amendment rights by denying due process.


Supporters of the rule argued it was designed to stop mentally ill persons from getting firearms.


"The House charged ahead with an extreme, hastily written, one-sided measure that would make the American people less safe," Rep. Elizabeth Esty, D-Conn., said, according to The Hill. Esty represents Newtown, Conn., where a mentally ill man shot and killed 20 six- and seven-year-olds and six adults.

No one died at Sandy Hook.

And OJ is innocent!

Idiot

 

[Dale Smith]

This is seriously fucked up.


House Votes To Overturn Obama Rule Restricting Gun Sales To the Severely Mentally Ill

According to NPR's Susan Davis, the measure being blocked from implementation would have required the Social Security Administration to send records of some beneficiaries with severe mental disabilities to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System. About 75,000 people found mentally incapable of managing their financial affairs would have been affected.


The National Rifle Association had pushed for the repeal, and Republicans argued it infringed upon Second Amendment rights by denying due process.


Supporters of the rule argued it was designed to stop mentally ill persons from getting firearms.


"The House charged ahead with an extreme, hastily written, one-sided measure that would make the American people less safe," Rep. Elizabeth Esty, D-Conn., said, according to The Hill. Esty represents Newtown, Conn., where a mentally ill man shot and killed 20 six- and seven-year-olds and six adults.

No one died at Sandy Hook.

And OJ is innocent!

Idiot

Before you start calling people names, why not do a little research about Sandy Hook? I have...a thousand or so hours at least just on this topic alone. This is what I do ten to 12 hours a day. Even when I am posting, I am still listening to documentaries and lectures that I download to my MP3 player. Want to debate Sandy Hoax? Bring it on, "Gramps".....

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

This is seriously fucked up.


House Votes To Overturn Obama Rule Restricting Gun Sales To the Severely Mentally Ill

According to NPR's Susan Davis, the measure being blocked from implementation would have required the Social Security Administration to send records of some beneficiaries with severe mental disabilities to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System. About 75,000 people found mentally incapable of managing their financial affairs would have been affected.


The National Rifle Association had pushed for the repeal, and Republicans argued it infringed upon Second Amendment rights by denying due process.


Supporters of the rule argued it was designed to stop mentally ill persons from getting firearms.


"The House charged ahead with an extreme, hastily written, one-sided measure that would make the American people less safe," Rep. Elizabeth Esty, D-Conn., said, according to The Hill. Esty represents Newtown, Conn., where a mentally ill man shot and killed 20 six- and seven-year-olds and six adults.

No one died at Sandy Hook.

And OJ is innocent!

Idiot

Before you start calling people names, why not do a little research about Sandy Hook? I have...a thousand or so hours at least just on this topic alone. This is what I do ten to 12 hours a day. Even when I am posting, I am still listening to documentaries and lectures that I download to my MP3 player. Want to debate Sandy Hoax? Bring it on, "Gramps".....

I don't have any interest in debating a paranoid nut.

 

[Dale Smith]

This is seriously fucked up.


House Votes To Overturn Obama Rule Restricting Gun Sales To the Severely Mentally Ill

According to NPR's Susan Davis, the measure being blocked from implementation would have required the Social Security Administration to send records of some beneficiaries with severe mental disabilities to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System. About 75,000 people found mentally incapable of managing their financial affairs would have been affected.


The National Rifle Association had pushed for the repeal, and Republicans argued it infringed upon Second Amendment rights by denying due process.


Supporters of the rule argued it was designed to stop mentally ill persons from getting firearms.


"The House charged ahead with an extreme, hastily written, one-sided measure that would make the American people less safe," Rep. Elizabeth Esty, D-Conn., said, according to The Hill. Esty represents Newtown, Conn., where a mentally ill man shot and killed 20 six- and seven-year-olds and six adults.

No one died at Sandy Hook.

And OJ is innocent!

Idiot

Before you start calling people names, why not do a little research about Sandy Hook? I have...a thousand or so hours at least just on this topic alone. This is what I do ten to 12 hours a day. Even when I am posting, I am still listening to documentaries and lectures that I download to my MP3 player. Want to debate Sandy Hoax? Bring it on, "Gramps".....

I don't have any interest in debating a paranoid nut.

I am not "paranoid" in the slightest but false flags have been used for thousands of years to sway the masses. Google "Operation Gladio" and "Operation Gladio B" and then get back to me. There has been a huge number of false flag and manufactured events in the last 5 years and all used to keep the huddled masses afraid, make them feel that they are vulnerable thus they need the state to protect them and it usually includes the taking away of more and more rights. Some o these false flag events like the Charleston church shooting is used to deflect attention away from an issue that is being discussed like the TPP debate that was going on then. We went from being concerned about the secrecy of the plan to a debate about thew Virginia battle flag. I know of what I speak...you are simply conditioned to gobble up the shit the lamestream media feeds you and you consume it like manna from heaven.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

This is seriously fucked up.


House Votes To Overturn Obama Rule Restricting Gun Sales To the Severely Mentally Ill

According to NPR's Susan Davis, the measure being blocked from implementation would have required the Social Security Administration to send records of some beneficiaries with severe mental disabilities to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System. About 75,000 people found mentally incapable of managing their financial affairs would have been affected.


The National Rifle Association had pushed for the repeal, and Republicans argued it infringed upon Second Amendment rights by denying due process.


Supporters of the rule argued it was designed to stop mentally ill persons from getting firearms.


"The House charged ahead with an extreme, hastily written, one-sided measure that would make the American people less safe," Rep. Elizabeth Esty, D-Conn., said, according to The Hill. Esty represents Newtown, Conn., where a mentally ill man shot and killed 20 six- and seven-year-olds and six adults.

As it was written, it was too broad and took away rights from people who posed no danger. People have a right to protect themselves and this law was intended to strip rights on a wide scale. And the left found ways to paint everyone as mentally ill. Depressed over the loss of a loved one? You're mentally unstable.

I wonder if all those rioters in the streets who are beating up innocent people and calling for a bloody revolution should have their rights denied. They are the problem with society, along with the gangs and other scum.

Ignorance. It is

ALREADY ILLEGAL

to sell every single person on this list a gun.

Nobody's rights are being taken away, except for the gun sellers right to remain ignorant.

How would a gun dealer know if the information that they have been adjudicated mentally deficient if it was not subject to the background check?

You gun-grabbers are arguing in circles and tripping over your own feet!

EXACTLY

Which was the reason for the NEW Obama policy of sending the names of those adjudicated mentally deficient via the Social Security representative payee program to the NICS.

Legally, they can't own a gun. Is that not information that should be available to a dealer via the NICS? If not, why not? Because rather you realize it or not, if you are opposed to this action and support Trump's order you are supporting the continued ignorance of the gun dealer. Nothing else.

Once again for the SLOW STUPID and Lying IGNORANTS, the SS does not use Judges nor courts it is an administrative decision based solely on the application for SS. No Judge NO Court is involved at ANY time in the process and the applicant is not vetted nor interviewed.,No rights are given to the applicant no process is used to determine their mental state.

How do I know you ask? Because I applied for SS disability and it was granted to me but I was also told I was incompetent to handle my financial affairs by the same letter. There was no investigation no court no Judge. The only rights I had were to accept or refuse my disability.

 

[Winston]

This is seriously fucked up.


House Votes To Overturn Obama Rule Restricting Gun Sales To the Severely Mentally Ill

According to NPR's Susan Davis, the measure being blocked from implementation would have required the Social Security Administration to send records of some beneficiaries with severe mental disabilities to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System. About 75,000 people found mentally incapable of managing their financial affairs would have been affected.


The National Rifle Association had pushed for the repeal, and Republicans argued it infringed upon Second Amendment rights by denying due process.


Supporters of the rule argued it was designed to stop mentally ill persons from getting firearms.


"The House charged ahead with an extreme, hastily written, one-sided measure that would make the American people less safe," Rep. Elizabeth Esty, D-Conn., said, according to The Hill. Esty represents Newtown, Conn., where a mentally ill man shot and killed 20 six- and seven-year-olds and six adults.

It is violating due process. There is no definition of what is considered severe mental disorder, it could include anyone that files for Social Security Disability for any mental reason.

Not true. Not even close to true. This order only applied to individuals receiving their Social Security benefit via a Representative Payee. Social Security assumes an adult can handle their finances, even those on a mental disability. Only after it has been PROVEN otherwise, with investigations, hearings if necessary, and after a judge signing the order if the beneficiary protests, is a Representative Payee assigned. There is even a right to appeal the decision. There is plenty of "due process" involved with making the determination that a Special Representative should be assigned.

Let's examine some examples. My father-in-law has been collecting disability since he was in his 30's. A mental disability, anxiety mostly. He has "episodes" every once in a while and has to hospitalized for a period of time. Last time he wanted me to take him to Hardees because Daniel Boone was going to be there to meet him. But he does handle his finances, even the royalties from the shale oil operations in Texas. He can legally purchase a gun.

Then there is my uncle. He too has been collecting disability since he was in his 30's. A mental disorder as well, full blown schizophrenic. He will tell you the government is snooping on him via the television a la 1984. One time he ran naked into the street with a shotgun shooting at the road crew. My mother is the custodian of the Representative Payee account. He cannot legally buy a gun. The government SHOULD provide that information to the NICS.

So, in a nutshell, what you are defending is not the right of that person with the Representative Payee account having a gun. Hell, he can legally own a gun. He just can't legally buy one. And how does it make sense that he can, hell he can't legally handle his own money. Is not part of handling that money deciding on what to buy, like a gun? Damn but you people are a bunch of flippin moronic robots receiving your orders via tweeter.

You are defending the right of the GUN SELLER to remain ignorant as to a customers inability to handle their money and LEGALLY purchase a gun. Seriously. Here is the scenario

So, my uncle busts out of the nursing home and manages to walk the mile or so to the pawn shop. He is on a mission, like the time he flew to New York to marry Vanna White. He comes in disheveled, reeking of body odor, muttering under his breath and carrying his priced 1950's era Martin D-45. He is even carrying his state ID card in his wallet. Right now, under existing law and existing guidelines, he can walk out with rifle or a shotgun. If his name is on the NICS list, like under Obama, he can't wait a bit and walk out with an AR-15. But now, well he can. He shows his ID, pawns his guitar, and waits while the background check runs. He has no criminal record, his mental health issue has all been handled privately, and now his name is not on the list, removed by Trump's order. Within a few hours he is walking out the door with his AR-15, a couple hundred rounds of ammo, and his "mission" to finally get all the people that have been spying on him.

Where is your reference to all of this crap you have been posting? It appears to be the mental meanderings of someone who should be reported to the NICS as mentally deficient because you cannot provide any support for your posts.

It is common knowledge. Look up Social Security - Representative Payee Program - When People Need Help Managing Their Money

All kinds of information about the program, who is in it, why, what do do if you are in and want out. How the money can be spent. You name it, it is there.

And again, the VA has been sending the exact same type of information to the NICS since the beginning.

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act prohibits you from purchasing, possessing, receiving or transporting a firearm or ammunition if you have “been adjudicated as a mental defective or been committed to a mental institution.” In compliance with this act, VA reports the names of incompetent beneficiaries to the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI), which then adds the names to a database called the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)

Beneficiary - Fiduciary

So tell me, why the fuck did you not say anything about the VA doing it. You got something against veterans? Nope, not a peep about it for two damn decades, and not much of a fuss about it now. Nope, just defending crazy people on SSI, not the VA.

SAD

 

[Winston]

This is seriously fucked up.


House Votes To Overturn Obama Rule Restricting Gun Sales To the Severely Mentally Ill

According to NPR's Susan Davis, the measure being blocked from implementation would have required the Social Security Administration to send records of some beneficiaries with severe mental disabilities to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System. About 75,000 people found mentally incapable of managing their financial affairs would have been affected.


The National Rifle Association had pushed for the repeal, and Republicans argued it infringed upon Second Amendment rights by denying due process.


Supporters of the rule argued it was designed to stop mentally ill persons from getting firearms.


"The House charged ahead with an extreme, hastily written, one-sided measure that would make the American people less safe," Rep. Elizabeth Esty, D-Conn., said, according to The Hill. Esty represents Newtown, Conn., where a mentally ill man shot and killed 20 six- and seven-year-olds and six adults.

As it was written, it was too broad and took away rights from people who posed no danger. People have a right to protect themselves and this law was intended to strip rights on a wide scale. And the left found ways to paint everyone as mentally ill. Depressed over the loss of a loved one? You're mentally unstable.

I wonder if all those rioters in the streets who are beating up innocent people and calling for a bloody revolution should have their rights denied. They are the problem with society, along with the gangs and other scum.

Ignorance. It is

ALREADY ILLEGAL

to sell every single person on this list a gun.

Nobody's rights are being taken away, except for the gun sellers right to remain ignorant.

How would a gun dealer know if the information that they have been adjudicated mentally deficient if it was not subject to the background check?

You gun-grabbers are arguing in circles and tripping over your own feet!

EXACTLY

Which was the reason for the NEW Obama policy of sending the names of those adjudicated mentally deficient via the Social Security representative payee program to the NICS.

Legally, they can't own a gun. Is that not information that should be available to a dealer via the NICS? If not, why not? Because rather you realize it or not, if you are opposed to this action and support Trump's order you are supporting the continued ignorance of the gun dealer. Nothing else.

Once again for the SLOW STUPID and Lying IGNORANTS, the SS does not use Judges nor courts it is an administrative decision based solely on the application for SS. No Judge NO Court is involved at ANY time in the process and the applicant is not vetted nor interviewed.,No rights are given to the applicant no process is used to determine their mental state.

How do I know you ask? Because I applied for SS disability and it was granted to me but I was also told I was incompetent to handle my financial affairs by the same letter. There was no investigation no court no Judge. The only rights I had were to accept or refuse my disability.

Sure you had rights. You could have appealed the decision. Then you would have had a review. If that went south you could have appealed the decision of the review to an administrative law judge. You don't like that decision you get from him you can file a motion in Federal court. It is the exact same thing with the VA as it is with SSI. Perhaps, you didn't fully understand your rights.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

This is seriously fucked up.


House Votes To Overturn Obama Rule Restricting Gun Sales To the Severely Mentally Ill

According to NPR's Susan Davis, the measure being blocked from implementation would have required the Social Security Administration to send records of some beneficiaries with severe mental disabilities to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System. About 75,000 people found mentally incapable of managing their financial affairs would have been affected.


The National Rifle Association had pushed for the repeal, and Republicans argued it infringed upon Second Amendment rights by denying due process.


Supporters of the rule argued it was designed to stop mentally ill persons from getting firearms.


"The House charged ahead with an extreme, hastily written, one-sided measure that would make the American people less safe," Rep. Elizabeth Esty, D-Conn., said, according to The Hill. Esty represents Newtown, Conn., where a mentally ill man shot and killed 20 six- and seven-year-olds and six adults.

It is violating due process. There is no definition of what is considered severe mental disorder, it could include anyone that files for Social Security Disability for any mental reason.

Not true. Not even close to true. This order only applied to individuals receiving their Social Security benefit via a Representative Payee. Social Security assumes an adult can handle their finances, even those on a mental disability. Only after it has been PROVEN otherwise, with investigations, hearings if necessary, and after a judge signing the order if the beneficiary protests, is a Representative Payee assigned. There is even a right to appeal the decision. There is plenty of "due process" involved with making the determination that a Special Representative should be assigned.

Let's examine some examples. My father-in-law has been collecting disability since he was in his 30's. A mental disability, anxiety mostly. He has "episodes" every once in a while and has to hospitalized for a period of time. Last time he wanted me to take him to Hardees because Daniel Boone was going to be there to meet him. But he does handle his finances, even the royalties from the shale oil operations in Texas. He can legally purchase a gun.

Then there is my uncle. He too has been collecting disability since he was in his 30's. A mental disorder as well, full blown schizophrenic. He will tell you the government is snooping on him via the television a la 1984. One time he ran naked into the street with a shotgun shooting at the road crew. My mother is the custodian of the Representative Payee account. He cannot legally buy a gun. The government SHOULD provide that information to the NICS.

So, in a nutshell, what you are defending is not the right of that person with the Representative Payee account having a gun. Hell, he can legally own a gun. He just can't legally buy one. And how does it make sense that he can, hell he can't legally handle his own money. Is not part of handling that money deciding on what to buy, like a gun? Damn but you people are a bunch of flippin moronic robots receiving your orders via tweeter.

You are defending the right of the GUN SELLER to remain ignorant as to a customers inability to handle their money and LEGALLY purchase a gun. Seriously. Here is the scenario

So, my uncle busts out of the nursing home and manages to walk the mile or so to the pawn shop. He is on a mission, like the time he flew to New York to marry Vanna White. He comes in disheveled, reeking of body odor, muttering under his breath and carrying his priced 1950's era Martin D-45. He is even carrying his state ID card in his wallet. Right now, under existing law and existing guidelines, he can walk out with rifle or a shotgun. If his name is on the NICS list, like under Obama, he can't wait a bit and walk out with an AR-15. But now, well he can. He shows his ID, pawns his guitar, and waits while the background check runs. He has no criminal record, his mental health issue has all been handled privately, and now his name is not on the list, removed by Trump's order. Within a few hours he is walking out the door with his AR-15, a couple hundred rounds of ammo, and his "mission" to finally get all the people that have been spying on him.

Where is your reference to all of this crap you have been posting? It appears to be the mental meanderings of someone who should be reported to the NICS as mentally deficient because you cannot provide any support for your posts.

It is common knowledge. Look up Social Security - Representative Payee Program - When People Need Help Managing Their Money

All kinds of information about the program, who is in it, why, what do do if you are in and want out. How the money can be spent. You name it, it is there.

And again, the VA has been sending the exact same type of information to the NICS since the beginning.

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act prohibits you from purchasing, possessing, receiving or transporting a firearm or ammunition if you have “been adjudicated as a mental defective or been committed to a mental institution.” In compliance with this act, VA reports the names of incompetent beneficiaries to the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI), which then adds the names to a database called the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)

Beneficiary - Fiduciary

So tell me, why the fuck did you not say anything about the VA doing it. You got something against veterans? Nope, not a peep about it for two damn decades, and not much of a fuss about it now. Nope, just defending crazy people on SSI, not the VA.

SAD

That link does not say anything you claimed. Here check out this link to pictures of puppies. It is just as relevant.

puppies - Google Search

 

[RetiredGySgt]

As it was written, it was too broad and took away rights from people who posed no danger. People have a right to protect themselves and this law was intended to strip rights on a wide scale. And the left found ways to paint everyone as mentally ill. Depressed over the loss of a loved one? You're mentally unstable.

I wonder if all those rioters in the streets who are beating up innocent people and calling for a bloody revolution should have their rights denied. They are the problem with society, along with the gangs and other scum.

Ignorance. It is

ALREADY ILLEGAL

to sell every single person on this list a gun.

Nobody's rights are being taken away, except for the gun sellers right to remain ignorant.

How would a gun dealer know if the information that they have been adjudicated mentally deficient if it was not subject to the background check?

You gun-grabbers are arguing in circles and tripping over your own feet!

EXACTLY

Which was the reason for the NEW Obama policy of sending the names of those adjudicated mentally deficient via the Social Security representative payee program to the NICS.

Legally, they can't own a gun. Is that not information that should be available to a dealer via the NICS? If not, why not? Because rather you realize it or not, if you are opposed to this action and support Trump's order you are supporting the continued ignorance of the gun dealer. Nothing else.

Once again for the SLOW STUPID and Lying IGNORANTS, the SS does not use Judges nor courts it is an administrative decision based solely on the application for SS. No Judge NO Court is involved at ANY time in the process and the applicant is not vetted nor interviewed.,No rights are given to the applicant no process is used to determine their mental state.

How do I know you ask? Because I applied for SS disability and it was granted to me but I was also told I was incompetent to handle my financial affairs by the same letter. There was no investigation no court no Judge. The only rights I had were to accept or refuse my disability.

Sure you had rights. You could have appealed the decision. Then you would have had a review. If that went south you could have appealed the decision of the review to an administrative law judge. You don't like that decision you get from him you can file a motion in Federal court. It is the exact same thing with the VA as it is with SSI. Perhaps, you didn't fully understand your rights.

The fact is my right to own firearms was removed by administrative action not by a Judge not in a Court. And THAT is unconstitutional.

 

[Clementine]

This is seriously fucked up.


House Votes To Overturn Obama Rule Restricting Gun Sales To the Severely Mentally Ill

According to NPR's Susan Davis, the measure being blocked from implementation would have required the Social Security Administration to send records of some beneficiaries with severe mental disabilities to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System. About 75,000 people found mentally incapable of managing their financial affairs would have been affected.


The National Rifle Association had pushed for the repeal, and Republicans argued it infringed upon Second Amendment rights by denying due process.


Supporters of the rule argued it was designed to stop mentally ill persons from getting firearms.


"The House charged ahead with an extreme, hastily written, one-sided measure that would make the American people less safe," Rep. Elizabeth Esty, D-Conn., said, according to The Hill. Esty represents Newtown, Conn., where a mentally ill man shot and killed 20 six- and seven-year-olds and six adults.

As it was written, it was too broad and took away rights from people who posed no danger. People have a right to protect themselves and this law was intended to strip rights on a wide scale. And the left found ways to paint everyone as mentally ill. Depressed over the loss of a loved one? You're mentally unstable.

I wonder if all those rioters in the streets who are beating up innocent people and calling for a bloody revolution should have their rights denied. They are the problem with society, along with the gangs and other scum.

Ignorance. It is

ALREADY ILLEGAL

to sell every single person on this list a gun.

Nobody's rights are being taken away, except for the gun sellers right to remain ignorant.

How would a gun dealer know if the information that they have been adjudicated mentally deficient if it was not subject to the background check?

You gun-grabbers are arguing in circles and tripping over your own feet!

EXACTLY

Which was the reason for the NEW Obama policy of sending the names of those adjudicated mentally deficient via the Social Security representative payee program to the NICS.

Legally, they can't own a gun. Is that not information that should be available to a dealer via the NICS? If not, why not? Because rather you realize it or not, if you are opposed to this action and support Trump's order you are supporting the continued ignorance of the gun dealer. Nothing else.

Once again for the SLOW STUPID and Lying IGNORANTS, the SS does not use Judges nor courts it is an administrative decision based solely on the application for SS. No Judge NO Court is involved at ANY time in the process and the applicant is not vetted nor interviewed.,No rights are given to the applicant no process is used to determine their mental state.

How do I know you ask? Because I applied for SS disability and it was granted to me but I was also told I was incompetent to handle my financial affairs by the same letter. There was no investigation no court no Judge. The only rights I had were to accept or refuse my disability.

That shows what they are doing here and it's pretty sneaky. It's an attempt to automatically declare some people incompetent without due process. It's how they paint with a broad brush to eliminate as many potential gun owners as possible. They even had doctors asking people if they owned guns and likely would have tried to use something in their medical file to deny them their 2nd amendment right. Remember, they wanted access to all our medical records as well as our bank accounts.

If the left had their way, guns would be banned. As it is, they can't do that so the next best thing is finding excuses to deny more and more people.

 

[Winston]

This is seriously fucked up.


House Votes To Overturn Obama Rule Restricting Gun Sales To the Severely Mentally Ill

According to NPR's Susan Davis, the measure being blocked from implementation would have required the Social Security Administration to send records of some beneficiaries with severe mental disabilities to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System. About 75,000 people found mentally incapable of managing their financial affairs would have been affected.


The National Rifle Association had pushed for the repeal, and Republicans argued it infringed upon Second Amendment rights by denying due process.


Supporters of the rule argued it was designed to stop mentally ill persons from getting firearms.


"The House charged ahead with an extreme, hastily written, one-sided measure that would make the American people less safe," Rep. Elizabeth Esty, D-Conn., said, according to The Hill. Esty represents Newtown, Conn., where a mentally ill man shot and killed 20 six- and seven-year-olds and six adults.

It is violating due process. There is no definition of what is considered severe mental disorder, it could include anyone that files for Social Security Disability for any mental reason.

Not true. Not even close to true. This order only applied to individuals receiving their Social Security benefit via a Representative Payee. Social Security assumes an adult can handle their finances, even those on a mental disability. Only after it has been PROVEN otherwise, with investigations, hearings if necessary, and after a judge signing the order if the beneficiary protests, is a Representative Payee assigned. There is even a right to appeal the decision. There is plenty of "due process" involved with making the determination that a Special Representative should be assigned.

Let's examine some examples. My father-in-law has been collecting disability since he was in his 30's. A mental disability, anxiety mostly. He has "episodes" every once in a while and has to hospitalized for a period of time. Last time he wanted me to take him to Hardees because Daniel Boone was going to be there to meet him. But he does handle his finances, even the royalties from the shale oil operations in Texas. He can legally purchase a gun.

Then there is my uncle. He too has been collecting disability since he was in his 30's. A mental disorder as well, full blown schizophrenic. He will tell you the government is snooping on him via the television a la 1984. One time he ran naked into the street with a shotgun shooting at the road crew. My mother is the custodian of the Representative Payee account. He cannot legally buy a gun. The government SHOULD provide that information to the NICS.

So, in a nutshell, what you are defending is not the right of that person with the Representative Payee account having a gun. Hell, he can legally own a gun. He just can't legally buy one. And how does it make sense that he can, hell he can't legally handle his own money. Is not part of handling that money deciding on what to buy, like a gun? Damn but you people are a bunch of flippin moronic robots receiving your orders via tweeter.

You are defending the right of the GUN SELLER to remain ignorant as to a customers inability to handle their money and LEGALLY purchase a gun. Seriously. Here is the scenario

So, my uncle busts out of the nursing home and manages to walk the mile or so to the pawn shop. He is on a mission, like the time he flew to New York to marry Vanna White. He comes in disheveled, reeking of body odor, muttering under his breath and carrying his priced 1950's era Martin D-45. He is even carrying his state ID card in his wallet. Right now, under existing law and existing guidelines, he can walk out with rifle or a shotgun. If his name is on the NICS list, like under Obama, he can't wait a bit and walk out with an AR-15. But now, well he can. He shows his ID, pawns his guitar, and waits while the background check runs. He has no criminal record, his mental health issue has all been handled privately, and now his name is not on the list, removed by Trump's order. Within a few hours he is walking out the door with his AR-15, a couple hundred rounds of ammo, and his "mission" to finally get all the people that have been spying on him.

Where is your reference to all of this crap you have been posting? It appears to be the mental meanderings of someone who should be reported to the NICS as mentally deficient because you cannot provide any support for your posts.

It is common knowledge. Look up Social Security - Representative Payee Program - When People Need Help Managing Their Money

All kinds of information about the program, who is in it, why, what do do if you are in and want out. How the money can be spent. You name it, it is there.

And again, the VA has been sending the exact same type of information to the NICS since the beginning.

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act prohibits you from purchasing, possessing, receiving or transporting a firearm or ammunition if you have “been adjudicated as a mental defective or been committed to a mental institution.” In compliance with this act, VA reports the names of incompetent beneficiaries to the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI), which then adds the names to a database called the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)

Beneficiary - Fiduciary

So tell me, why the fuck did you not say anything about the VA doing it. You got something against veterans? Nope, not a peep about it for two damn decades, and not much of a fuss about it now. Nope, just defending crazy people on SSI, not the VA.

SAD

That link does not say anything you claimed. Here check out this link to pictures of puppies. It is just as relevant.

puppies - Google Search

It clearly explained precisely what the Representative Payee program is and to whom it applies. It is a very limited number of individuals who are either minor children or with an adjudicated mental disorder that prevents them from handling their own finances.

 

[Winston]

Ignorance. It is

ALREADY ILLEGAL

to sell every single person on this list a gun.

Nobody's rights are being taken away, except for the gun sellers right to remain ignorant.

How would a gun dealer know if the information that they have been adjudicated mentally deficient if it was not subject to the background check?

You gun-grabbers are arguing in circles and tripping over your own feet!

EXACTLY

Which was the reason for the NEW Obama policy of sending the names of those adjudicated mentally deficient via the Social Security representative payee program to the NICS.

Legally, they can't own a gun. Is that not information that should be available to a dealer via the NICS? If not, why not? Because rather you realize it or not, if you are opposed to this action and support Trump's order you are supporting the continued ignorance of the gun dealer. Nothing else.

Once again for the SLOW STUPID and Lying IGNORANTS, the SS does not use Judges nor courts it is an administrative decision based solely on the application for SS. No Judge NO Court is involved at ANY time in the process and the applicant is not vetted nor interviewed.,No rights are given to the applicant no process is used to determine their mental state.

How do I know you ask? Because I applied for SS disability and it was granted to me but I was also told I was incompetent to handle my financial affairs by the same letter. There was no investigation no court no Judge. The only rights I had were to accept or refuse my disability.

Sure you had rights. You could have appealed the decision. Then you would have had a review. If that went south you could have appealed the decision of the review to an administrative law judge. You don't like that decision you get from him you can file a motion in Federal court. It is the exact same thing with the VA as it is with SSI. Perhaps, you didn't fully understand your rights.

The fact is my right to own firearms was removed by administrative action not by a Judge not in a Court. And THAT is unconstitutional.

That was YOUR CHOICE hoss. You could have appealed.

Look, if you plead guilty to murder and forego your right to a trial by a jury of your peers you don't get to go back and claim your constitutional rights were violated because you didn't have a jury trial.

This is the same damn thing.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It is violating due process. There is no definition of what is considered severe mental disorder, it could include anyone that files for Social Security Disability for any mental reason.

Not true. Not even close to true. This order only applied to individuals receiving their Social Security benefit via a Representative Payee. Social Security assumes an adult can handle their finances, even those on a mental disability. Only after it has been PROVEN otherwise, with investigations, hearings if necessary, and after a judge signing the order if the beneficiary protests, is a Representative Payee assigned. There is even a right to appeal the decision. There is plenty of "due process" involved with making the determination that a Special Representative should be assigned.

Let's examine some examples. My father-in-law has been collecting disability since he was in his 30's. A mental disability, anxiety mostly. He has "episodes" every once in a while and has to hospitalized for a period of time. Last time he wanted me to take him to Hardees because Daniel Boone was going to be there to meet him. But he does handle his finances, even the royalties from the shale oil operations in Texas. He can legally purchase a gun.

Then there is my uncle. He too has been collecting disability since he was in his 30's. A mental disorder as well, full blown schizophrenic. He will tell you the government is snooping on him via the television a la 1984. One time he ran naked into the street with a shotgun shooting at the road crew. My mother is the custodian of the Representative Payee account. He cannot legally buy a gun. The government SHOULD provide that information to the NICS.

So, in a nutshell, what you are defending is not the right of that person with the Representative Payee account having a gun. Hell, he can legally own a gun. He just can't legally buy one. And how does it make sense that he can, hell he can't legally handle his own money. Is not part of handling that money deciding on what to buy, like a gun? Damn but you people are a bunch of flippin moronic robots receiving your orders via tweeter.

You are defending the right of the GUN SELLER to remain ignorant as to a customers inability to handle their money and LEGALLY purchase a gun. Seriously. Here is the scenario

So, my uncle busts out of the nursing home and manages to walk the mile or so to the pawn shop. He is on a mission, like the time he flew to New York to marry Vanna White. He comes in disheveled, reeking of body odor, muttering under his breath and carrying his priced 1950's era Martin D-45. He is even carrying his state ID card in his wallet. Right now, under existing law and existing guidelines, he can walk out with rifle or a shotgun. If his name is on the NICS list, like under Obama, he can't wait a bit and walk out with an AR-15. But now, well he can. He shows his ID, pawns his guitar, and waits while the background check runs. He has no criminal record, his mental health issue has all been handled privately, and now his name is not on the list, removed by Trump's order. Within a few hours he is walking out the door with his AR-15, a couple hundred rounds of ammo, and his "mission" to finally get all the people that have been spying on him.

Where is your reference to all of this crap you have been posting? It appears to be the mental meanderings of someone who should be reported to the NICS as mentally deficient because you cannot provide any support for your posts.

It is common knowledge. Look up Social Security - Representative Payee Program - When People Need Help Managing Their Money

All kinds of information about the program, who is in it, why, what do do if you are in and want out. How the money can be spent. You name it, it is there.

And again, the VA has been sending the exact same type of information to the NICS since the beginning.

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act prohibits you from purchasing, possessing, receiving or transporting a firearm or ammunition if you have “been adjudicated as a mental defective or been committed to a mental institution.” In compliance with this act, VA reports the names of incompetent beneficiaries to the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI), which then adds the names to a database called the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)

Beneficiary - Fiduciary

So tell me, why the fuck did you not say anything about the VA doing it. You got something against veterans? Nope, not a peep about it for two damn decades, and not much of a fuss about it now. Nope, just defending crazy people on SSI, not the VA.

SAD

That link does not say anything you claimed. Here check out this link to pictures of puppies. It is just as relevant.

puppies - Google Search

It clearly explained precisely what the Representative Payee program is and to whom it applies. It is a very limited number of individuals who are either minor children or with an adjudicated mental disorder that prevents them from handling their own finances.

Bullshit! It does not mention any of the things you claim. Try quoting it and see how well you fare.

 

[Winston]

As it was written, it was too broad and took away rights from people who posed no danger. People have a right to protect themselves and this law was intended to strip rights on a wide scale. And the left found ways to paint everyone as mentally ill. Depressed over the loss of a loved one? You're mentally unstable.

I wonder if all those rioters in the streets who are beating up innocent people and calling for a bloody revolution should have their rights denied. They are the problem with society, along with the gangs and other scum.

Ignorance. It is

ALREADY ILLEGAL

to sell every single person on this list a gun.

Nobody's rights are being taken away, except for the gun sellers right to remain ignorant.

How would a gun dealer know if the information that they have been adjudicated mentally deficient if it was not subject to the background check?

You gun-grabbers are arguing in circles and tripping over your own feet!

EXACTLY

Which was the reason for the NEW Obama policy of sending the names of those adjudicated mentally deficient via the Social Security representative payee program to the NICS.

Legally, they can't own a gun. Is that not information that should be available to a dealer via the NICS? If not, why not? Because rather you realize it or not, if you are opposed to this action and support Trump's order you are supporting the continued ignorance of the gun dealer. Nothing else.

Once again for the SLOW STUPID and Lying IGNORANTS, the SS does not use Judges nor courts it is an administrative decision based solely on the application for SS. No Judge NO Court is involved at ANY time in the process and the applicant is not vetted nor interviewed.,No rights are given to the applicant no process is used to determine their mental state.

How do I know you ask? Because I applied for SS disability and it was granted to me but I was also told I was incompetent to handle my financial affairs by the same letter. There was no investigation no court no Judge. The only rights I had were to accept or refuse my disability.

That shows what they are doing here and it's pretty sneaky. It's an attempt to automatically declare some people incompetent without due process. It's how they paint with a broad brush to eliminate as many potential gun owners as possible. They even had doctors asking people if they owned guns and likely would have tried to use something in their medical file to deny them their 2nd amendment right. Remember, they wanted access to all our medical records as well as our bank accounts.

If the left had their way, guns would be banned. As it is, they can't do that so the next best thing is finding excuses to deny more and more people.

Look I don't know what all this bullshit is about due process. It is exactly the same process as a "convicted felon". If Social Security recommends someone has a Representative Payee the beneficiary can accept that decision, just like a felon can plead guilty. Then it becomes a matter of paperwork, for both the criminal and the disabled social security beneficiary. The matter has been "adjudicated".

Or the beneficiary can appeal, first to a committee, second to an administrative law officer, and finally in federal court. Just like a convicted felon has a right to a trial if they plead innocent. And they have the right to appeal. Again, the matter still has been "adjudicated".

If the disabled beneficiary receiving benefits via a representative payee has not had "due process", the convicted felon that has plead guilty has not had "due process" and should therefore have their names removed from the NICS database as well.

 

[Winston]

Not true. Not even close to true. This order only applied to individuals receiving their Social Security benefit via a Representative Payee. Social Security assumes an adult can handle their finances, even those on a mental disability. Only after it has been PROVEN otherwise, with investigations, hearings if necessary, and after a judge signing the order if the beneficiary protests, is a Representative Payee assigned. There is even a right to appeal the decision. There is plenty of "due process" involved with making the determination that a Special Representative should be assigned.

Let's examine some examples. My father-in-law has been collecting disability since he was in his 30's. A mental disability, anxiety mostly. He has "episodes" every once in a while and has to hospitalized for a period of time. Last time he wanted me to take him to Hardees because Daniel Boone was going to be there to meet him. But he does handle his finances, even the royalties from the shale oil operations in Texas. He can legally purchase a gun.

Then there is my uncle. He too has been collecting disability since he was in his 30's. A mental disorder as well, full blown schizophrenic. He will tell you the government is snooping on him via the television a la 1984. One time he ran naked into the street with a shotgun shooting at the road crew. My mother is the custodian of the Representative Payee account. He cannot legally buy a gun. The government SHOULD provide that information to the NICS.

So, in a nutshell, what you are defending is not the right of that person with the Representative Payee account having a gun. Hell, he can legally own a gun. He just can't legally buy one. And how does it make sense that he can, hell he can't legally handle his own money. Is not part of handling that money deciding on what to buy, like a gun? Damn but you people are a bunch of flippin moronic robots receiving your orders via tweeter.

You are defending the right of the GUN SELLER to remain ignorant as to a customers inability to handle their money and LEGALLY purchase a gun. Seriously. Here is the scenario

So, my uncle busts out of the nursing home and manages to walk the mile or so to the pawn shop. He is on a mission, like the time he flew to New York to marry Vanna White. He comes in disheveled, reeking of body odor, muttering under his breath and carrying his priced 1950's era Martin D-45. He is even carrying his state ID card in his wallet. Right now, under existing law and existing guidelines, he can walk out with rifle or a shotgun. If his name is on the NICS list, like under Obama, he can't wait a bit and walk out with an AR-15. But now, well he can. He shows his ID, pawns his guitar, and waits while the background check runs. He has no criminal record, his mental health issue has all been handled privately, and now his name is not on the list, removed by Trump's order. Within a few hours he is walking out the door with his AR-15, a couple hundred rounds of ammo, and his "mission" to finally get all the people that have been spying on him.

Where is your reference to all of this crap you have been posting? It appears to be the mental meanderings of someone who should be reported to the NICS as mentally deficient because you cannot provide any support for your posts.

It is common knowledge. Look up Social Security - Representative Payee Program - When People Need Help Managing Their Money

All kinds of information about the program, who is in it, why, what do do if you are in and want out. How the money can be spent. You name it, it is there.

And again, the VA has been sending the exact same type of information to the NICS since the beginning.

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act prohibits you from purchasing, possessing, receiving or transporting a firearm or ammunition if you have “been adjudicated as a mental defective or been committed to a mental institution.” In compliance with this act, VA reports the names of incompetent beneficiaries to the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI), which then adds the names to a database called the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)

Beneficiary - Fiduciary

So tell me, why the fuck did you not say anything about the VA doing it. You got something against veterans? Nope, not a peep about it for two damn decades, and not much of a fuss about it now. Nope, just defending crazy people on SSI, not the VA.

SAD

That link does not say anything you claimed. Here check out this link to pictures of puppies. It is just as relevant.

puppies - Google Search

It clearly explained precisely what the Representative Payee program is and to whom it applies. It is a very limited number of individuals who are either minor children or with an adjudicated mental disorder that prevents them from handling their own finances.

Bullshit! It does not mention any of the things you claim. Try quoting it and see how well you fare.

Right to appeal,

You have the right to receive your own Social Security check unless SSA believes you are not capable of managing or directing the management of your money.

If you have a representative payee because of a physical or a mental disability, in order to become your own payee, you must show SSA that you are now mentally and physically able to handle your money yourself. You could provide:

1. A doctor's statement that there has been a change in your condition and that the doctor believes you are able to care for yourself; or
2. An official copy of a court order saying that the court believes that you can take care of yourself; or
3. Other evidence that shows your ability to take care of yourself.

Note: If SSA believes your condition has improved to the point that you no longer need a payee, we may reevaluate your eligibility for disability payments.

Federal Court Review Process, SSA, ODAR

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It is violating due process. There is no definition of what is considered severe mental disorder, it could include anyone that files for Social Security Disability for any mental reason.

Not true. Not even close to true. This order only applied to individuals receiving their Social Security benefit via a Representative Payee. Social Security assumes an adult can handle their finances, even those on a mental disability. Only after it has been PROVEN otherwise, with investigations, hearings if necessary, and after a judge signing the order if the beneficiary protests, is a Representative Payee assigned. There is even a right to appeal the decision. There is plenty of "due process" involved with making the determination that a Special Representative should be assigned.

Let's examine some examples. My father-in-law has been collecting disability since he was in his 30's. A mental disability, anxiety mostly. He has "episodes" every once in a while and has to hospitalized for a period of time. Last time he wanted me to take him to Hardees because Daniel Boone was going to be there to meet him. But he does handle his finances, even the royalties from the shale oil operations in Texas. He can legally purchase a gun.

Then there is my uncle. He too has been collecting disability since he was in his 30's. A mental disorder as well, full blown schizophrenic. He will tell you the government is snooping on him via the television a la 1984. One time he ran naked into the street with a shotgun shooting at the road crew. My mother is the custodian of the Representative Payee account. He cannot legally buy a gun. The government SHOULD provide that information to the NICS.

So, in a nutshell, what you are defending is not the right of that person with the Representative Payee account having a gun. Hell, he can legally own a gun. He just can't legally buy one. And how does it make sense that he can, hell he can't legally handle his own money. Is not part of handling that money deciding on what to buy, like a gun? Damn but you people are a bunch of flippin moronic robots receiving your orders via tweeter.

You are defending the right of the GUN SELLER to remain ignorant as to a customers inability to handle their money and LEGALLY purchase a gun. Seriously. Here is the scenario

So, my uncle busts out of the nursing home and manages to walk the mile or so to the pawn shop. He is on a mission, like the time he flew to New York to marry Vanna White. He comes in disheveled, reeking of body odor, muttering under his breath and carrying his priced 1950's era Martin D-45. He is even carrying his state ID card in his wallet. Right now, under existing law and existing guidelines, he can walk out with rifle or a shotgun. If his name is on the NICS list, like under Obama, he can't wait a bit and walk out with an AR-15. But now, well he can. He shows his ID, pawns his guitar, and waits while the background check runs. He has no criminal record, his mental health issue has all been handled privately, and now his name is not on the list, removed by Trump's order. Within a few hours he is walking out the door with his AR-15, a couple hundred rounds of ammo, and his "mission" to finally get all the people that have been spying on him.

Where is your reference to all of this crap you have been posting? It appears to be the mental meanderings of someone who should be reported to the NICS as mentally deficient because you cannot provide any support for your posts.

It is common knowledge. Look up Social Security - Representative Payee Program - When People Need Help Managing Their Money

All kinds of information about the program, who is in it, why, what do do if you are in and want out. How the money can be spent. You name it, it is there.

And again, the VA has been sending the exact same type of information to the NICS since the beginning.

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act prohibits you from purchasing, possessing, receiving or transporting a firearm or ammunition if you have “been adjudicated as a mental defective or been committed to a mental institution.” In compliance with this act, VA reports the names of incompetent beneficiaries to the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI), which then adds the names to a database called the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)

Beneficiary - Fiduciary

So tell me, why the fuck did you not say anything about the VA doing it. You got something against veterans? Nope, not a peep about it for two damn decades, and not much of a fuss about it now. Nope, just defending crazy people on SSI, not the VA.

SAD

That link does not say anything you claimed. Here check out this link to pictures of puppies. It is just as relevant.

puppies - Google Search

It clearly explained precisely what the Representative Payee program is and to whom it applies. It is a very limited number of individuals who are either minor children or with an adjudicated mental disorder that prevents them from handling their own finances.

You are NOT adjudged to have a mental disorder that is not declared stated or written anywhere, you are wrong as usual.