How did the Universe get here?

[Derideo_Te]

I do not have time to further educate you Derideo_Te

You've alreary been examined and found delusional. But if you just keep saying it, you will keep believing it. Try the mirror, it'd at least be more honest. "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and gosh darn it, god loves me..."

Science is honest enough to admit that it hasn't found all of the answers.

Religion starts out with a false assumption and then compounds that fallacy with baseless claims as to the origin of both the universe and life itself.

To buy into those falsehoods and believe them to be the "absolute truth" stemming from a bronze age myth is the ultimate self deception given that there is nothing whatsoever to substantiate the allegations right at the start of Genesis.

So if the choice is between religion and science we can rely upon science to be honest enough to admit that it is still searching for the answers and even more importantly be honest enough to admit that it has made mistakes and to subsequently correct the errors.

Religion cannot admit that it is ever wrong because that would be tantamount to admitting that their deity is fallible. But the entire premise is based upon assumptions that have proven to be wrong. The earth is not the center of universe and knowledge is not sinful.

 

[AVG-JOE]

lol, yes....DNA is far more than just a string of chemicals.....

EVERYTHING is just a string of chemicals, including the water-sack with a Monkeys attitude typing this post, and the glass you're staring at it through.

Everything.​

if true, why doesn't the glass I'm staring through reproduce itself.....

Seriously?


Everything, both animate and inanimate (living and not living), is built from molecules of various combinations of the elements found on The Periodic Table. Rocks, dirt, furniture, air, water, etc. etc. etc... EVERYthing boils down to this list of elements. Combinations of two or more 'elements' are what we call 'molecules'. Water, for example, is a molecular combination of two elements. One is called 'oxygen', which is number eight on The Periodic Table, the other is called 'Hydrogen', which is number one on the table. The smallest piece that any element can be broken down in to and still remain that element is called an 'atom'. The recipe for water is 2 hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom. It's fascinating stuff really.


I apologize, Bro'... I was Ass-U-Me-ing a base level of education here. Check this link for some basic information and begin exploring from there. Periodic table - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You are really in for an educational treat! ​

 

[PostmodernProph]

EVERYTHING is just a string of chemicals, including the water-sack with a Monkeys attitude typing this post, and the glass you're staring at it through.

Everything.​

if true, why doesn't the glass I'm staring through reproduce itself.....

Seriously?


Everything, both animate and inanimate (living and not living), is built from molecules of various combinations of the elements found on The Periodic Table. Rocks, dirt, furniture, air, water, etc. etc. etc... EVERYthing boils down to this list of elements. Combinations of two or more 'elements' are what we call 'molecules'. Water, for example is a molecular combination of two elements. One is called 'oxygen', which is number eight on The Periodic Table, the other is called 'Hydrogen', which is number one on the table. The smallest piece that any element can be broken down in to and still remain that element is called an 'atom'. The recipe for water is 2 hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom. It's fascinating stuff really.


I apologize, Bro'... I was Ass-U-Me-ing a base level of education here. Check this link for some basic information and begin exploring from there. Periodic table - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You are really in for an educational treat! ​

I'm sorry if you weren't smart enough to understand my question.....when you get done memorizing your periodic table, take a look at a child....then explain to my why you think it's just like a lump of coal.......you can pile all the chemicals you like in any assortment that tickles your fancy, but you aren't going to end up with something living because life is more than simply a string of organic chemicals.....

 

[GISMYS]

10,000 WASTED POSTS!!! ALMIGHTY GOD gave you the answer. GOD SPOKE THE UNIVERSE IN TO BEING FROM WHAT CANNOT BE SEEN WITH JUST HIS WORDS!! But silly tards carry on!!! TWEAK!

 

[AVG-JOE]

Obviously the answer is that glass is an inanimate thing made of molecules held together by chemistry, while Monkeys and other living things are animated collections of molecules held together by chemistry.

All things, both living and not, can be broken down in to their base elements listed on The Periodic Table. Why and how some combinations come to be "alive" is that pesky and unprovable question of origins again.

Back to square one. Unprovable question - nothing but opinions of the evidence.

(See post 816: http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...did-the-universe-get-here-55.html#post9380944 )​

Beer?

 

[BreezeWood]

to elaborate, the search for life is being conducted by maximizing the "Conditions" necessary for life to emerge from a habitable environment ... not that it will not occur.

What Are The Requirements For Life To Arise And Survive? | Las Cumbres Observatory Global Telescope Network


Chemistry

Many astrobiologists believe that if we find living organisms on other planets in our solar system and elsewhere in the universe, they will be recognizable to us as life. They believe that the properties of carbon that allowed it to become the basis for all life on Earth are unique to that atom. The variety of types of chemical bonds that can be formed by carbon make it able to be the basis of complex chains of different molecules. No other atom seems to be able to do this in a similar way. Even silicon, which has the same number of valence electrons as carbon, cannot form the variety of molecules that carbon can. However, this does not mean that all life would necessarily be based on DNA and cells, as it is on Earth.
.................

Habitable Zone

Many astrobiologists believe that in order for life to arise and survive, it must be found on a planet or moon within the habitable zone of a star. The habitable zone refers to the region around the star in which liquid water can form and remain liquid. The size of the star is important as well. Stars that are much larger than the Sun have such short lifetimes, that it is unlikely that there would be enough time for any kind of life, particularly complex life, to develop.

.

those who doubt life will occur spontaneously under the proper conditions are the same people who demanded they be the center of the universe by the proximity to their Scriptural God, so much so as to believe the Universe revolved around their planet.

what is sad is Scripturalist believe they remain a voice of reason when in fact their legitimacy has long ago been refuted only for them to deny their own demise by blindly resisting the truth.

.

 

[Youwerecreated]

to elaborate, the search for life is being conducted by maximizing the "Conditions" necessary for life to emerge from a habitable environment ... not that it will not occur.

What Are The Requirements For Life To Arise And Survive? | Las Cumbres Observatory Global Telescope Network


Chemistry

Many astrobiologists believe that if we find living organisms on other planets in our solar system and elsewhere in the universe, they will be recognizable to us as life. They believe that the properties of carbon that allowed it to become the basis for all life on Earth are unique to that atom. The variety of types of chemical bonds that can be formed by carbon make it able to be the basis of complex chains of different molecules. No other atom seems to be able to do this in a similar way. Even silicon, which has the same number of valence electrons as carbon, cannot form the variety of molecules that carbon can. However, this does not mean that all life would necessarily be based on DNA and cells, as it is on Earth.
.................

Habitable Zone

Many astrobiologists believe that in order for life to arise and survive, it must be found on a planet or moon within the habitable zone of a star. The habitable zone refers to the region around the star in which liquid water can form and remain liquid. The size of the star is important as well. Stars that are much larger than the Sun have such short lifetimes, that it is unlikely that there would be enough time for any kind of life, particularly complex life, to develop.

.

those who doubt life will occur spontaneously under the proper conditions are the same people who demanded they be the center of the universe by the proximity to their Scriptural God, so much so as to believe the Universe revolved around their planet.

what is sad is Scripturalist believe they remain a voice of reason when in fact their legitimacy has long ago been refuted only for them to deny their own demise by blindly resisting the truth.

.

Dose of reality.Why is it your won't watch this video and comment hmm.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtBz1roiQR8#t=26[/ame]

 

[itfitzme]

...you can pour together accumulations of chemicals all day long and you will never come up with life as a result.

itfitzme's theory is, if science can't prove it, then it proves the opposite is true. Since science has never been able to create life with chemicals, the opposite must be true!

itfitzme theory proves God! Oh my!

You are an idiot. You have never put in the effort required to learn science and hypothesis testing yet constantly make statements about subject of which you have no knowlege.

If you have any actual intelligence, you have every oppprtunity to learm what hypothesis testing is.

You obviously maintain the common and absurd reasoning that if the existance of god cannot be proven false then there for it can be true which leads you directly to the position thatr it must and is true.

The fact of the manner is that if you claim that there is a live duck in the refrigerator and upon examination of the refrigerator, every item is determined to be belonging to the list of typical non-living grocery items then by default, your claim is proven false. With absolute certainty, by proving what is true, by its very nature, proves that the opposite is false

You have two choices, true and false.

The fact of the matter is that the existance of god is demonstratably false simply because it has repeatedly and continuously been demonstrated to not exist. Every manner of observation has failed to produce any evidence to support your absurd belief. Every manner of experiment and observation has revealed that the physical reality of space and is explainable, to the level of physically controlling the variable, and requires no additional entity. The most recent of experiments has been nailing down the energy level, the existance of, the Higgs boson. The existance of the Higgs boson, and thereby the reality of its effects, has been proven to a level of certainty of 1-(1/500000000). Get out your best calculator and tell us what 1-(1/500000000) is equal to. Once again, the existance of god has been demonstrated to not exist.

You can imagine all you like that somehow, some way, maybe god exists and therefore must exist, but that doesn't make it true anywhere but your over active imagination. Believing in a nonexistant entity of which no manner of experience has ever demonstrated as true, of which every mannernof observation and experience has demonstrated to be false, is simply a psychosis.

 

[GISMYS]

...you can pour together accumulations of chemicals all day long and you will never come up with life as a result.

itfitzme's theory is, if science can't prove it, then it proves the opposite is true. Since science has never been able to create life with chemicals, the opposite must be true!

itfitzme theory proves God! Oh my!

You are an idiot. You have never put in the effort required to learn science and hypothesis testing yet constantly make statements about subject of which you have no knowlege.

If you have any actual intelligence, you have every oppprtunity to learm what hypothesis testing is.

You obviously maintain the common and absurd reasoning that if the existance of god cannot be proven false then there for it can be true which leads you directly to the position thatr it must and is true.

The fact of the manner is that if you claim that there is a live duck in the refrigerator and upon examination of the refrigerator, every item is determined to be belonging to the list of typical non-living grocery items then by default, your claim is proven false. With absolute certainty, by proving what is true, by its very nature, proves that the opposite is false

You have two choices, true and false.

The fact of the matter is that the existance of god is demonstratably false simply because it has repeatedly and continuously been demonstrated to not exist. Every manner of observation has failed to produce any evidence to support your absurd belief. Every manner of experiment and observation has revealed that the physical reality of space and is explainable, to the level of physically controlling the variable, and requires no additional entity. The most recent of experiments has been nailing down the energy level, the existance of, the Higgs boson. The existance of the Higgs boson, and thereby the reality of its effects, has been proven to a level of certainty of 1-(1/500000000). Get out your best calculator and tell us what 1-(1/500000000) is equal to. Once again, the existance of god has been demonstrated to not exist.

You can imagine all you like that somehow, some way, maybe god exists and therefore must exist, but that doesn't make it true anywhere but your over active imagination. Believing in a nonexistant entity of which no manner of experience has ever demonstrated as true, of which every mannernof observation and experience has demonstrated to be false, is simply a psychosis.

What a silly IGNORANT post!!! Learn your place in GOD'S CREATION,SILLY little man as compared to ALMIGHTY GOD is less than a germ on a worm on a germ!!!! THINK!!!

 

[Montrovant]

...you can pour together accumulations of chemicals all day long and you will never come up with life as a result.

itfitzme's theory is, if science can't prove it, then it proves the opposite is true. Since science has never been able to create life with chemicals, the opposite must be true!

itfitzme theory proves God! Oh my!

You are an idiot. You have never put in the effort required to learn science and hypothesis testing yet constantly make statements about subject of which you have no knowlege.

If you have any actual intelligence, you have every oppprtunity to learm what hypothesis testing is.

You obviously maintain the common and absurd reasoning that if the existance of god cannot be proven false then there for it can be true which leads you directly to the position thatr it must and is true.

The fact of the manner is that if you claim that there is a live duck in the refrigerator and upon examination of the refrigerator, every item is determined to be belonging to the list of typical non-living grocery items then by default, your claim is proven false. With absolute certainty, by proving what is true, by its very nature, proves that the opposite is false

You have two choices, true and false.

The fact of the matter is that the existance of god is demonstratably false simply because it has repeatedly and continuously been demonstrated to not exist. Every manner of observation has failed to produce any evidence to support your absurd belief. Every manner of experiment and observation has revealed that the physical reality of space and is explainable, to the level of physically controlling the variable, and requires no additional entity. The most recent of experiments has been nailing down the energy level, the existance of, the Higgs boson. The existance of the Higgs boson, and thereby the reality of its effects, has been proven to a level of certainty of 1-(1/500000000). Get out your best calculator and tell us what 1-(1/500000000) is equal to. Once again, the existance of god has been demonstrated to not exist.

You can imagine all you like that somehow, some way, maybe god exists and therefore must exist, but that doesn't make it true anywhere but your over active imagination. Believing in a nonexistant entity of which no manner of experience has ever demonstrated as true, of which every mannernof observation and experience has demonstrated to be false, is simply a psychosis.

Do you really think that humanity has seen the entire 'refrigerator' of the universe in order to rule out the existence of any god?

I think you greatly overestimate the scope of human knowledge.

 

[Montrovant]

EVERYTHING is just a string of chemicals, including the water-sack with a Monkeys attitude typing this post, and the glass you're staring at it through.
Everything.

No, not EVERYTHING is a chemical. Is LIGHT a chemical?

And the argument isn't about whether chemicals exist or what is/isn't chemical. It's about your assertion that life was ever created by chemical interaction. This contradicts Biogenesis and has NEVER been demonstrated. You can certainly BELIEVE some chemical reaction happened to cause life, that is called "having faith" and there isn't anything wrong with that. Let's just be honest about it.

I'm pretty sure Joe's point was that everyone's opinion about the origins of life is just that, an opinion.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Interesting hypothesis I've wondered about for some time as well (dunno if I came up with it before learning it was an actual hypothesis.)

Is the universe alive?

While it's true that much of the universe isn't living (stars, planets, etc.) life exists within it (namelyu us and the rest of this planet's lifeforms.) So it could be said that as a whole unit (the universe) some of it is alive JUST as within each one of us, not every discrete part is living (especially if you 'zoom' down to the atomic level. Yet within us are living cells as well.

If the universe is some kind of discrete living thing, then it may be one of many living things and our unawareness of this nature would be akin to how individual cells in our bodies, though very much alive, are unaware of their being merely a part of a greater whole. So perhaps the universe was 'born.'

 

[Boss]

...you can pour together accumulations of chemicals all day long and you will never come up with life as a result.

itfitzme's theory is, if science can't prove it, then it proves the opposite is true. Since science has never been able to create life with chemicals, the opposite must be true!

itfitzme theory proves God! Oh my!

You are an idiot. You have never put in the effort required to learn science and hypothesis testing yet constantly make statements about subject of which you have no knowlege.

If you have any actual intelligence, you have every oppprtunity to learm what hypothesis testing is.

You obviously maintain the common and absurd reasoning that if the existance of god cannot be proven false then there for it can be true which leads you directly to the position thatr it must and is true.

The fact of the manner is that if you claim that there is a live duck in the refrigerator and upon examination of the refrigerator, every item is determined to be belonging to the list of typical non-living grocery items then by default, your claim is proven false. With absolute certainty, by proving what is true, by its very nature, proves that the opposite is false

You have two choices, true and false.

The fact of the matter is that the existance of god is demonstratably false simply because it has repeatedly and continuously been demonstrated to not exist. Every manner of observation has failed to produce any evidence to support your absurd belief. Every manner of experiment and observation has revealed that the physical reality of space and is explainable, to the level of physically controlling the variable, and requires no additional entity. The most recent of experiments has been nailing down the energy level, the existance of, the Higgs boson. The existance of the Higgs boson, and thereby the reality of its effects, has been proven to a level of certainty of 1-(1/500000000). Get out your best calculator and tell us what 1-(1/500000000) is equal to. Once again, the existance of god has been demonstrated to not exist.

You can imagine all you like that somehow, some way, maybe god exists and therefore must exist, but that doesn't make it true anywhere but your over active imagination. Believing in a nonexistant entity of which no manner of experience has ever demonstrated as true, of which every mannernof observation and experience has demonstrated to be false, is simply a psychosis.

The fact of the matter is that the existance of god is demonstratably false simply because it has repeatedly and continuously been demonstrated to not exist. Every manner of observation has failed to produce any evidence to support your absurd belief.

We shall call this The Itfitzme Theory. Now let's apply this theory to the fact of the matter that every manner of observation has failed when it comes to life being created by chemical reactions or any other spontaneous natural means. Continuously, it has been demonstrated that life comes only from life. According to The Itfitzme Theory, spontaneous generation or abiogenesis is impossible and absurd. No evidence exists to support the belief. This means life originated through spiritual or metaphysical forces and can be considered a fact according to The Itfitzme Theory.

 

[AVG-JOE]

EVERYTHING is just a string of chemicals, including the water-sack with a Monkeys attitude typing this post, and the glass you're staring at it through.
Everything.

No, not EVERYTHING is a chemical. Is LIGHT a chemical?

And the argument isn't about whether chemicals exist or what is/isn't chemical. It's about your assertion that life was ever created by chemical interaction. This contradicts Biogenesis and has NEVER been demonstrated. You can certainly BELIEVE some chemical reaction happened to cause life, that is called "having faith" and there isn't anything wrong with that. Let's just be honest about it.

Honest about it? That there's FUNNY!

I'd like you to point to the post in this thread where I asserted that life developing as a simple mater of chemistry + Time was anything more than my humble opinion.

On the contrary, I'm usually the one reminding folks that the question asked in the opener of this thread can ONLY be answered with speculations and opinions, as "How did the Universe get here?" remains at the top of the list of unprovable questions.

Just ONCE I like to hear some of the Bible thumpers admit that nobody, including them, KNOWS, and it is possible that they are wrong.

 

[itfitzme]

...you can pour together accumulations of chemicals all day long and you will never come up with life as a result.

Except for one problem. Your belief fails before the question is even asked. The only way you maintain your psychosis is by ignoring reality from the start.

Everyone can walk outside, examine the mold on the old cheese in their refrigerator, or just look in the mirror. and see that life exists. (Okay, perhaps not you, at least not intelligent life.)

Life either began or it has always existed.

Everyone can simply look around them and see that inorganic matter exists.

Inorganic matter either began or has always existed.

All of science has demonstrated that organic life is composed of inorganic matter.

So the question is simple, did life always exist or did it begin?

What is your hypothesis, did it always exist or did it begin?

If your hypothesis is that life began, then it is clearly obvious that your hypothesis is that it began out off inorganic matter.

Life, organic matter, is comprised of inorganic matter. It isn't comprised of something else, this is demonstratable.

So, simply and clearly, if life has not always existed then it began. And as it is comprised of inorganic materials then it came to being out of inorganic element.

You can pour chemicals together is a beaker all day long and not getting life means nothing. It doesn't change the facts that life is comprised of inorganic elements and therefor, if it has not always existed, it came about from inorganic elements.

There are no more observable and demonstratable elements. You may imagine all manner of other elements that you like, but being psycotic doesn't make them exist. You can spend the next 10,000 years attempting to show these other things, and we will all wait till you get back.

In the mean time, no one except you needs to see the rain clouds to know if it rained while they wete inside, then it came from rain clouds. No one need see someone in the bathroom to know that if it smells like shit, someone was in the batthroom. No one need see the wind when they look out their wimdow at the leaves rustling, that it is windy.

The reality is that if life has not always existed, then it came about frommthe only other thing that exists, inorganic matter.

There really is only two choices here, either you are ignorant or you arensuffering from a psychosis. Both are the result of being disconnected from reality.

So I gotta ask, which is it, are you psychotic or simply stupid?

 

[sealybobo]

complexity isn't intended to prove the existence of a god.....it is intended to prove the stupidity of "random shit just happens randomly" as the solution.......because complex things don't happen randomly......

There are plenty of examples of both elements and molecules interacting with each other randomly and building both toward the more complex, and toward the less complex.

'Chemistry' should be a verb! LOTS of action there!​

and yet there are no examples of elements and molecules interacting with each other randomly and resulting in anything living......let alone something complex enough to reproduce.....

And that proves that god exists?

 

[sealybobo]

What a bunch of nonsense thinking origins was not directed by something. Stop with the chemistry nonsense as well,for your information those chemicals that are found in the cell are soluble in water or would be destroyed by oxygen or the sun. A fully functioning cell is only produced by another fully functioning cell.

You can believe with a straight face it happened without direction ?

Who made god? Or are you suggesting with a straight face that he happened without direction?

Of course, you might be wondering where the first cell came from. A lot of people wonder about that. Since the first cells formed billions of years ago, and single cells don't leave fossils, that's a tough question. It's possible that there were a few different types of cells that formed around the same time. There's evidence that modern plant and animal cells are a result of two or more kinds of cells joining together.

Science has studied this and the only thing that is insane is to interject god as the answer. The honest answer is we don't know yet.

“I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world.” – Richard Dawkins

“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.” – Charles Darwin

 

[Boss]

...you can pour together accumulations of chemicals all day long and you will never come up with life as a result.

Except for one problem. Your belief fails before the question is even asked. The only way you maintain your psychosis is by ignoring reality from the start.

Everyone can walk outside, examine the mold on the old cheese in their refrigerator, or just look in the mirror. and see that life exists. (Okay, perhaps not you, at least not intelligent life.)

Life either began or it has always existed.

Everyone can simply look around them and see that inorganic matter exists.

Inorganic matter either began or has always existed.

All of science has demonstrated that organic life is composed of inorganic matter.

So the question is simple, did life always exist or did it begin?

What is your hypothesis, did it always exist or did it begin?

If your hypothesis is that life began, then it is clearly obvious that your hypothesis is that it began out off inorganic matter.

Life, organic matter, is comprised of inorganic matter. It isn't comprised of something else, this is demonstratable.

So, simply and clearly, if life has not always existed then it began. And as it is comprised of inorganic materials then it came to being out of inorganic element.

You can pour chemicals together is a beaker all day long and not getting life means nothing. It doesn't change the facts that life is comprised of inorganic elements and therefor, if it has not always existed, it came about from inorganic elements.

There are no more observable and demonstratable elements. You may imagine all manner of other elements that you like, but being psycotic doesn't make them exist. You can spend the next 10,000 years attempting to show these other things, and we will all wait till you get back.

In the mean time, no one except you needs to see the rain clouds to know if it rained while they wete inside, then it came from rain clouds. No one need see someone in the bathroom to know that if it smells like shit, someone was in the batthroom. No one need see the wind when they look out their wimdow at the leaves rustling, that it is windy.

The reality is that if life has not always existed, then it came about frommthe only other thing that exists, inorganic matter.

Sorry, you are violating the The Itfitzme Theory. You haven't produced life from inorganic elements. Unless you can do that, you can't say this is possible. It defies your own theory. As a matter of fact, according to your own theory, this must mean life was created by God.

What is your hypothesis, did it always exist or did it begin?

It's impossible that life always existed. The Earth was once a hot ball of molten lava, nothing organic could exist. My hypothesis is that a spiritual force not understood by science because it's spiritual and not physical, originally created life and thus began the process of biogenesis. The Itfitzme Theory seems to support my hypothesis, since science has been completely unable to produce life with inorganic materials or chemical interaction. Remember, when science fails to prove things true they must be false. If you have no physical explanation for how life originated, it must be spiritual, it can't be anything else. There is no other alternative. The Itfitzme Theory has spoken!

 

[AVG-JOE]

Interesting hypothesis I've wondered about for some time as well (dunno if I came up with it before learning it was an actual hypothesis.)

Is the universe alive?

While it's true that much of the universe isn't living (stars, planets, etc.) life exists within it (namelyu us and the rest of this planet's lifeforms.) So it could be said that as a whole unit (the universe) some of it is alive JUST as within each one of us, not every discrete part is living (especially if you 'zoom' down to the atomic level. Yet within us are living cells as well.

If the universe is some kind of discrete living thing, then it may be one of many living things and our unawareness of this nature would be akin to how individual cells in our bodies, though very much alive, are unaware of their being merely a part of a greater whole. So perhaps the universe was 'born.'

It depends on how one defines "living", I suppose. Some would say that fire is alive because it consumes, reproduces and dies. Under that litmus test, the Stars themselves could be considered alive. Perhaps the same logic can be applied to the universe as a whole, ass-u-me-ing that the assumptions that the universe had a starting point in Time and will eventually 'die' hold any truth.

 

[percysunshine]

How did the Universe (i.e. everything that exists) get here?

And if you believe there are multiple universes, then how did the Multiverse get here?

We know the Universe wasn't always here, and will end sometime in the future.

How did everything begin, and what happens after the end?

I'm looking for an answer from those of you who say God definitely does not exist.

At the end of the day, the universe has to be somewhere, else there would not be anyone to ask the question 'How did the Universe get here?'

.