How did the Universe get here?

[Procrustes Stretched]

Mr Clean

The universe has always been here.

Nope. But yes, only in time.

like protons...out of nothing, but what is nothing?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Who made god?

Who made gravity? Who made energy? Who made light?

​

Excellent!!

NObody knows is the correct answer!

See, now you are making up shit. You don't know. That doesn't equal that nobody knows.

Dude... if anyone knew, beyond their own faith, how the universe began and whether or not God existed, this would be a VERY short thread.

NObody knows. Many have solid faith in their assumptions, speculations and opinions, but NObody KNOWS.

Hence the FACT of the unprovable questions.

 

[GISMYS]

​

Excellent!!

NObody knows is the correct answer!

See, now you are making up shit. You don't know. That doesn't equal that nobody knows.

Dude... if anyone knew, beyond their own faith, how the universe began and whether or not God existed, this would be a VERY short thread.

NObody knows. Many have solid faith in their assumptions, speculations and opinions, but NObody KNOWS.

Hence the FACT of the unprovable questions.

What kind of fool would not believe the WORD OF GOD?? GOD'S Word has been under attack by sily little sin loving,God rejecting man for thousands of years most of whom are long dead and in hell but GOD'S WORD lines on into eternity!!!PTL.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

You, who are extremely careful about making proclamations of FACT regarding various theories because they are NOT facts, just made a serious error in declaring that 96% of the universe is made up of, which you can't possibly actual know.

Missing: 96 Percent of the Universe | Dark Matter & Dark Energy | The 4% Universe, Richard Panek

NEW YORK — All the stars, planets and galaxies that can be seen today make up just 4 percent of the universe. The other 96 percent is made of stuff astronomers can't see, detect or even comprehend.

These mysterious substances are called dark energy and dark matter. Astronomers infer their existence based on their gravitational influence on what little bits of the universe can be seen, but dark matter and energy themselves continue to elude all detection.

"The overwhelming majority of the universe is: who knows?" explains science writer Richard Panek, who spoke about these oddities of our universe on Monday (May 9) at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York (CUNY) here in Manhattan. "It's unknown for now, and possibly forever."

"Dark Matter Might Not Exist" (Weekend Feature)

This past 4th of July 2013, a European team of astronomers led by Hongsheng Zhao of the SUPA Centre of Gravity at the University of St Andrews presented a radical new theory at the RAS National Astronomy Meeting in St Andrews. Their theory suggested that the Milky Way and Anromeda galaxies collided some 10 billion years ago and that our understanding of gravity is fundamentally wrong. Remarkably, this would neatly explain the observed structure of the two galaxies and their satellites.

In 2009, Zhao led An international team of astronomers that found an unexpected link between 'dark matter' and the visible stars and gas in galaxies that could revolutionize our current understanding of gravity. Zhao suggested that an unknown force is acting on dark matter.
The team believes that the interactions between dark and ordinary matter could be more important and more complex than previously thought, and even speculate that dark matter might not exist and that the anomalous motions of stars in galaxies are due to a modification of gravity on extragalactic scales.

"The dark matter seems to 'know' how the visible matter is distributed. They seem to conspire with each other such that the gravity of the visible matter at the characteristic radius of the dark halo is always the same," said Dr. Benoit Famaey (Universities of Bonn and Strasbourg). "This is extremely surprising since one would rather expect the balance between visible and dark matter to strongly depend on the individual history of each galaxy.

"The pattern that the data reveal is extremely odd. It's like finding a zoo of animals of all ages and sizes miraculously having identical, say, weight in their backbones or something. It is possible that a non-gravitational fifth force is ruling the dark matter with an invisible hand, leaving the same fingerprints on all galaxies, irrespective of their ages, shapes and sizes."

Such a force might solve an even bigger mystery, known as 'dark energy', which is ruling the accelerated expansion of the Universe. A more radical solution is a revision of the laws of gravity first developed by Isaac Newton in 1687 and refined by Albert Einstein's theory of General Relativity in 1916. Einstein never fully decided whether his equation should add an omnipresent constant source, now called dark energy. Astrophyisicts Neil Degrasse Tyson has stated that dark energy soould in fact be renamed dark gravity.

In the image above above dark energy is represented by the purple grid above, and gravity by the green grid below. Gravity emanates from all matter in the universe, but its effects are localized and drop off quickly over large distances.

Dr Famaey added, "If we account for our observations with a modified law of gravity, it makes perfect sense to replace the effective action of hypothetical dark matter with a force closely related to the distribution of visible matter."

The implications of the new research could change some of the most widely held scientific theories about the history and expansion of the universe.

snip/

For example, the Big Bang theory is the idea that at a particular moment things suddenly started exploding and growing, and that our universe got bigger, which Verlinde finds illogical to think it came from this one moment.

"It’s illogical to think there was nothing and then it exploded. We use concepts like time and space," he adds, "but we don’t really understand what this means microscopically. That might change. The Big Bang has to do with our understanding of what time should be, and I think we will have a much better understanding of this in the future. I think we will figure out that what we thought was the Big Bang was actually a different kind of event. Or maybe that we should not think that the universe really began at a particular moment and that there’s another way to describe that."

Verlinde believes that the information we have today and the equations we now use only describe a very small part of what is actually going on. "If you think that something grows, like our universe, than something else must become smaller," he observes."I think there’s something we haven’t found yet and this will help us discover the origins of our universe. In short, the universe originated from something, not from nothing. There was something there and we have to find the equations. It has something to do with dark energy and how that is related to dark matter. If we understand the equations for those components of our universe, I think we’ll also have a better understanding of how the universe began. I think it’s all about the interplay between these different forms of energy and matter.

If there is "an unexpected link between 'dark matter' and the visible stars and gas in galaxies" and dark matter doesn't exist...

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

[MENTION=33449]BreezeWood[/MENTION]

It is correct there is no "before" in a physical sense.

In a spiritual sense, there is no such thing as time.

Spirituality like religion and god is a human construct. It exists -- in the mind

define mind - as spirituality is not physiological.

.

The mind like the soul is a human construct -- of the brain. Shut off the brain and where is the mind or the soul? Surely if it/they existed in and of itself/themselves it/they would reveal itself/themselves -- unless it/they is/are a god(s)?

 

[AVG-JOE]

See, now you are making up shit. You don't know. That doesn't equal that nobody knows.

Dude... if anyone knew, beyond their own faith, how the universe began and whether or not God existed, this would be a VERY short thread.

NObody knows. Many have solid faith in their assumptions, speculations and opinions, but NObody KNOWS.

Hence the FACT of the unprovable questions.

What kind of fool would not believe the WORD OF GOD?? GOD'S Word has been under attack by sily little sin loving,God rejecting man for thousands of years most of whom are long dead and in hell but GOD'S WORD lines on into eternity!!!PTL.

The real question is 'What kind of fool wastes what little Time he has trapped in fear of heroes and monsters living only in ancient Arab literature?'.

 

[GISMYS]

Dude... if anyone knew, beyond their own faith, how the universe began and whether or not God existed, this would be a VERY short thread.

NObody knows. Many have solid faith in their assumptions, speculations and opinions, but NObody KNOWS.

Hence the FACT of the unprovable questions.

What kind of fool would not believe the WORD OF GOD?? GOD'S Word has been under attack by sily little sin loving,God rejecting man for thousands of years most of whom are long dead and in hell but GOD'S WORD lines on into eternity!!!PTL.

The real question is 'What kind of fool wastes what little Time he has trapped in fear of heroes and monsters living only in ancient Arab literature?'.

I live my life as a son of ALMIGHTY GOD,in his blessings and protection. GOD says I am a joint heir with JESUS and I know GOD has a lot of good "stuff" like trillions of worlds and stars!!!

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Dude... if anyone knew, beyond their own faith, how the universe began and whether or not God existed, this would be a VERY short thread.

NObody knows. Many have solid faith in their assumptions, speculations and opinions, but NObody KNOWS.

Hence the FACT of the unprovable questions.

What kind of fool would not believe the WORD OF GOD?? GOD'S Word has been under attack by sily little sin loving,God rejecting man for thousands of years most of whom are long dead and in hell but GOD'S WORD lines on into eternity!!!PTL.

The real question is 'What kind of fool wastes what little Time he has trapped in fear of heroes and monsters living only in ancient Arab literature?'.

Works for many Israeli's and Americans

 

[sealybobo]

Who made god?

Who made gravity? Who made energy? Who made light?

Nobody!
Energy IS.

But the same can't be true for God?

We can prove energy light and gravity exist. You can't prove god exists.

 

[sealybobo]

Who made god?

Who made gravity? Who made energy? Who made light?

Nobody!
Energy IS.

But the same can't be true for God?

Now Boss will tell me I can't prove my mom is real or that she is my mom. Boss can get real deep, in the doo doo.

 

[AVG-JOE]

What kind of fool would not believe the WORD OF GOD?? GOD'S Word has been under attack by sily little sin loving,God rejecting man for thousands of years most of whom are long dead and in hell but GOD'S WORD lines on into eternity!!!PTL.

The real question is 'What kind of fool wastes what little Time he has trapped in fear of heroes and monsters living only in ancient Arab literature?'.

I live my life as a son of ALMIGHTY GOD,in his blessings and protection. GOD says I am a joint heir with JESUS and I know GOD has a lot of good "stuff" like trillions of worlds and stars!!!

I hope that works out for you. Truly I do.

In the meantime, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Too much Time have I wasted already on Abraham's God.​

 

[GISMYS]

The real question is 'What kind of fool wastes what little Time he has trapped in fear of heroes and monsters living only in ancient Arab literature?'.

I live my life as a son of ALMIGHTY GOD,in his blessings and protection. GOD says I am a joint heir with JESUS and I know GOD has a lot of good "stuff" like trillions of worlds and stars!!!

I hope that works out for you. Truly I do.

In the meantime, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Too much Time have I wasted already on Abraham's God.

HOPE??? NO TRUTH!!! GOD says I am a son of GOD and HE must know!! GOD is not a liar!!! and you??

 

[Boss]

Nobody!
Energy IS.

But the same can't be true for God?

We can prove energy light and gravity exist. You can't prove god exists.

Who made them?

 

[sealybobo]

Who made god?

Who made gravity? Who made energy? Who made light?

Nobody!
Energy IS.

But the same can't be true for God?

One other thing. You constantly cry that I'm getting my ideas from an atheist website, well let me ask you something. Can you show me a site/link or anyone else in the world that agrees with your concepts or are you truly all alone on this?

 

[sealybobo]

But the same can't be true for God?

We can prove energy light and gravity exist. You can't prove god exists.

Who made them?

Show me some kind of proof that you know who made them. Until then we'll just agree we don't know.

 

[Doubletap]

Here's an interesting take on the universe & god, by Nathaniel Branden:
Since everything in the universe requires a cause, must not the universe itself have a cause, which is god?

Answer: There are two basic fallacies in this argument. The first is the assumption that, if the universe required a causal explanation, the positing of a "god" would provide it. To posit god as the creator of the universe is only to push the problem back one step farther: Who then created god? Was there a still earlier god who created the god in question? We are thus led to an infinite regress - the very dilemma that the positing of a "god" was intended to solve. But if it is argued that no one created god, that god does not require a cause, that god has existed eternally - then on what grounds is it denied that the universe has existed eternally?

It is true that there cannot be an infinite series of antecedent causes. But recognition of this fact should lead one to reappraise the validity of the initial question, not to attempt to answer it by stepping outside the universe into some gratuitously invented supernatural dimension.

This leads to the second and more fundamental fallacy in this argument: the assumption that the universe as a whole requires a causal explanation. It does not. The universe is the total of which exists. Within the universe, the emergence of new entities can be explained in terms of the actions of entities that already exist: The cause of a tree is the seed of the parent tree; the cause of a machine is the purposeful reshaping of matter by men. All actions presuppose the existence of entities - and all emergences of new entities presuppose the existence of entities that caused their emergence. All causality presupposes the existence of something that acts as a cause. To demand a cause for all of existence is to demand a contradiction: if the cause exists, it is part of the existence; if it does not exist, it cannot be a cause. Nothing does not exist. causality presupposes existence, existence does not presuppose causality . There can be no cause "outside" of existence or "anterior" to it. The forms of existence may change and evolve, but the fact of existence is the irreducible primary at the base of all casual chains. Existence -not "god" - is the First Cause.

Just as the concept of a causality applies to events and entities within the universe, but no to the universe as a whole - so the concept of time applies to events and entities within the universe, but no to the universe as a whole. The universe did not "begin" - it did not, at some point in time, "spring into being." Time is a measurement of motion. Motion presupposes entities that move. If nothing existed, there could be no time. Time is "in" the universe; the universe is not "in" time.

The man who asks: "Where did existence come from?" or "What caused it?" is the man who has never grasped that existence exists. This is the mentality of a savage or mystic who regards existence as some sort of incomprehensible miracle - and seeks to "explain" it by reference to nonexistence.

Existence is all that exists, the nonexistent does not exist; there is nothing for existence to have come out of - and nothing means nothing. If you are tempted to ask: "What's outside the universe?" - recognize that you are asking; "What's outside of existence?" and that the idea of "something outside of existence" is a contradiction in terms; nothing is outside of existence, and "nothing" is not just another kind of "something" - it is nothing. Existence exists; you cannot go outside it; you cannot get under it, on top of it, or behind it. Existence exists - and only existence exists:
There is nowhere else to go."

 

[Boss]

Nobody!
Energy IS.

But the same can't be true for God?

Now Boss will tell me I can't prove my mom is real or that she is my mom. Boss can get real deep, in the doo doo.

No, the truth is, nothing is proven. Science can't prove anything, it can only predict probability of possibility. Now, it may predict a very high probability of a possibility, and we may interpret that as "proof" of something, but that's not science, that is us drawing a conclusion.

Let me ask you this. Can you calculate the probability that you will wake up in the morning on Mars? Simple question, a yes or no will suffice.

 

[sealybobo]

But the same can't be true for God?

We can prove energy light and gravity exist. You can't prove god exists.

Who made them?

Boy you really are a primitive man. 20,000 years ago when lightening or thunder struck primitive man didn't know science and they thought thunder and lightening were god(s). We have long put those thoughts behind us but clearly from your question you have not.

It is as if science doesn't exist despite all the proof around you. But god does exist despite all the lack of proof. You are truly an ignorant close minded simpleton.

But I don't get the feeling you really believe the shit you say. You'll argue despite the fact that you have no argument. Perfect example was when you tried to prove to me my mom doesn't exist. Yea, that's exactly like you not being able to prove your god exists. Fucking idiot.

 

[AVG-JOE]

 

[sealybobo]

But the same can't be true for God?

Now Boss will tell me I can't prove my mom is real or that she is my mom. Boss can get real deep, in the doo doo.

No, the truth is, nothing is proven. Science can't prove anything, it can only predict probability of possibility. Now, it may predict a very high probability of a possibility, and we may interpret that as "proof" of something, but that's not science, that is us drawing a conclusion.

Let me ask you this. Can you calculate the probability that you will wake up in the morning on Mars? Simple question, a yes or no will suffice.

Yes. The probability is just as good as a god existing. It could happen. I can't say 100% sure it won't happen. But the chances I will is less than 1%. Way lower than 1%.