How do we stop "the poor" from being so problematic?

[Ray From Cleveland]

Oh really? Then I invite you to watch a few dozen episodes of COPS tonight. See the difference between how black suspects act compared to white. You tell me they act the same. Ever go to court with black people? I have. I seen how they act towards the judge and others in the court room.

Well, if it's on COPS........

Yep. Because COPS is a reality show. No acting, no editing. You see what really goes on with police work. It's on all day and evening on SPIKE TV. Record a few dozen episodes and learn a few things.

No EDITING? Bullshit.

Well, they do cut out the language which I don't understand why because it's cable. But other than that, you see what these cops have to put up with.

They do more than cut language, unless you think that each police shift is a half hour.

They edit all the boring calls, where people of all races are polite, respectful, and have no huge problems. They edit to show the runners and the loud-mouths.

What a moron, to think there's no editing.

You couldn't be more wrong. They do show cops involved with people who are respectful to them. They show how the cops give those people a break if they can. It's the same thing that happens with police in your neighborhood. I know this from experience from when I was younger. I learned how to interact with authority young on.

As a professional driver, I get pulled over for no reason at all. They don't need one. So I do the best I can to make their job as easy as possible, and many times, they've let something minor slip by because of my cooperation with them. They appreciate the respect you give them as an authority figure and didn't do anything to make their job more difficult.

 

[Billo_Really]

No, that was the housing market. Some bozos in our government thought it would be a good idea to force banks to give bad loans to people, and the market eventually collapsed.

No one in government told the banks to compromise their better judgement in seeing who was loan worthy. And speculators sold derivatives on the housing market which just exacerbated the problem.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No EDITING? Bullshit.

Well, they do cut out the language which I don't understand why because it's cable. But other than that, you see what these cops have to put up with.

Some cops have to put up with some bs. They could also make a show composed of cops harassing, mistreating, overstepping their boundaries, violating civil rights of citizens. Maybe you would have a better glimpse of what minorities have to deal with.

I know exactly what they deal with. I see it all the time. If you knew any real police officers, you might understand that they treat people the way people treat them. All they care about is doing their job and getting home at the end of the day like the rest of us. You show a police officer respect, chances are he'll do the same no matter what color you are.

I know real police officers who serve their community faithfully. And I know prejudice and abusive cops who abuse their power. I have been illegally body searched by a male cop. When I asked him to stop touching my breasts he told me to shut up that I don't have any rights.
I understand their are good and bad cops, and I think the bad cops make it harder for the good cops. Just like I understand there are good and bad people of each race.

Hmmm, more peculiar oddities....Most of our cops in Southern California are minorities and yet somehow it's still minorities getting their asses kicked by cops and getting arrested...haha
Maybe even our minority cops are racist huh?

That kind of goes back to our earlier discussion about sentencing for minorities. A lifelong friend of mine works in the court system downtown, and I asked him if he thought judges give minorities harsher sentences. He had no evidence of it, but his opinion was yes, some judges do give harsher sentences to minorities. But guess what? Those judges are black.

It makes sense too. If you are a racist judge or one who dislikes blacks, the worse thing you can do for the black community is give criminals a break and send them back to that community. Black judges think just the opposite. If what my friend says is true, then it would make sense that black judges want to put away troublemakers in the black community as long as possible.

Racist black judges. What do you make of that????

 

[BrokeLoser]

Hmmm, more peculiar oddities....Most of our cops in Southern California are minorities and yet somehow it's still minorities getting their asses kicked by cops and getting arrested...haha
Maybe even our minority cops are racist huh?

I am objective to admit good Cops exist and bad minorities exist. Are you objective enough to amit there are bad cops and good minorities?

Absolutely!
I have a few awesome minority folks who work for me. For the record, I'll also be the first to condemn a white trash piece of shit as well.
However, it doesn't make for good conversation to discuss the small percentages of anything....right?

It is your contention that it is a small percentage of the poor who are good people?

Clearly a rhetorical question.
Based on my experience with you I'm pretty damn sure our perception of what makes a person "good" couldn't be further apart.
I'm thinking you believe if they have a heart beat and breathe oxygen they must be good...right?
We should probably hurdle the definition of "good" first...huh?

You would be wrong. But then again, I also don't think being poor makes you bad. Clearly, you do.

The assertion made remains the same.
The vast majority of this nations social and economic problems stem from within our poor.

 

[OnePercenter]

My companys lowest paid worker is probably making under 20k a year full time. Hard to live off that

Back it can be done. And if they don't like it - they are free to go work somewhere else.

And not for nothing - but in my last position my salary increased $17,000 as my performance dictated increases and promotions. So that person may be at $20,000 today, but they don't have to be there tomorrow (and won't be if they perform).

It can barely be done, certainly not easy for lets say, a single mother. I don't think any American working 40 hours a week should be below the line of poverty.

tough shit. The stupid belief that small business owners, who DO work more than forty a week, should pay their unskilled workers more than they earn themselves is the height of fiscal stupidity. You morons who want others to subsidize the stupidity of others should finance that shit yourselves. Adopt an inner city single mom with five kids who can't read or speak like a human and who has never stayed at any job for more than two weeks, and giver her your paycheck when she starts working as a babysitter for other welfare moms so they can attend their required welfare jobs classes. I hope you make a lot of money, because she needs quite a bit, with five kids, to earn above the poverty level.

what stupid douches progressives are.

I work for a large company who could certainly afford to pay everyone a living wage and then some. They just don't have to.

That's exactly correct. Nobody pays more than they have to for labor. Your company doesn't, I don't, you don't. Most of us don't.

If your goal is mediocrity in business you don't.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, that was the housing market. Some bozos in our government thought it would be a good idea to force banks to give bad loans to people, and the market eventually collapsed.

No one in government told the banks to compromise their better judgement in seeing who was loan worthy. And speculators sold derivatives on the housing market which just exacerbated the problem.

Wrong. Banks give loans according to the laws that government sets for them. Most loans are sold, so if you want to sell the home loans you make, you need to be in compliance with Fanny and Freddy.

Because of the complaints from minorities and lower income people, the government reduced qualifications to get a home loan. Towards the apex of the bubble, you could get a home loan with no money down and no credit check. Trust me, at the time, I lost several good tenants because of 0% down.

So what happens when you make millions of loans to people that can't make payments? You get the housing crash.

 

[OKTexas]

What can and or will be done about it politically?
In keeping with current board rhetoric let's not be scared to get real honest here.
Our poor are our worst parents...they create more of their same.
Our poor suck the most government tit.
Our poor commits the most crime.
Our poor does the most drugs.
Our poor drinks and smokes the most.
Our poor have the most children they can't afford.
Our poor litters and vandalizes the most.
Our poor drives uninsured.
Our poor commits the most animal cruelty.
I could go on and on...and no Libby's, let's not deflect and divert to Wall Street criminals, big corporations..blah, blah, blah...Let's get real, let's get serious about our taxpayer draining bottom feeders....Whatta ya say?

Here's a thought, how about we stop importing them and allowing them to stay in the country illegally.

 

[Aries]

Well, they do cut out the language which I don't understand why because it's cable. But other than that, you see what these cops have to put up with.

Some cops have to put up with some bs. They could also make a show composed of cops harassing, mistreating, overstepping their boundaries, violating civil rights of citizens. Maybe you would have a better glimpse of what minorities have to deal with.

I know exactly what they deal with. I see it all the time. If you knew any real police officers, you might understand that they treat people the way people treat them. All they care about is doing their job and getting home at the end of the day like the rest of us. You show a police officer respect, chances are he'll do the same no matter what color you are.

I know real police officers who serve their community faithfully. And I know prejudice and abusive cops who abuse their power. I have been illegally body searched by a male cop. When I asked him to stop touching my breasts he told me to shut up that I don't have any rights.
I understand their are good and bad cops, and I think the bad cops make it harder for the good cops. Just like I understand there are good and bad people of each race.

Hmmm, more peculiar oddities....Most of our cops in Southern California are minorities and yet somehow it's still minorities getting their asses kicked by cops and getting arrested...haha
Maybe even our minority cops are racist huh?

That kind of goes back to our earlier discussion about sentencing for minorities. A lifelong friend of mine works in the court system downtown, and I asked him if he thought judges give minorities harsher sentences. He had no evidence of it, but his opinion was yes, some judges do give harsher sentences to minorities. But guess what? Those judges are black.

It makes sense too. If you are a racist judge or one who dislikes blacks, the worse thing you can do for the black community is give criminals a break and send them back to that community. Black judges think just the opposite. If what my friend says is true, then it would make sense that black judges want to put away troublemakers in the black community as long as possible.

Racist black judges. What do you make of that????

Oh dear god, i thought you and I were about to have a break through. Got so excited.. Don't tease me like that, its cruel.

 

[OnePercenter]

The answer to the question asked of me is "However many jobs they need to live the lifestyle they've chosen to have." If one wishes to work only 35-40 hours a week at minimum wage, then concessions must be made, like cellphones and cable for instance, or if you're very stupid and had kids whilst working McDonald's, perhaps harsher cuts, like cars and having a 2bdrm apartment.


I've no sympathy and nothing ya'll say is going to give me any. While I do have money in the bank, my family and I live very well off of about $36k a year and it's not like where I live in Alaska is 'cheap' either; we have one of the higher costs of living in the nation.

It's not hard for a family to come up with $36k a year, even /if/ one has made stupid ass decisions in ones life.

Poverty in the US is a mixture of laziness and irresponsibility; two things that don't go well for creating a future for yourself. It's up to the individual to get over both those hurdles--not the taxpayer.

How do you account for the >3M working class poor?

That would have to be studied on a case by case basis. More than likely those people made a lot of mistakes in life and that's what contributed to their plight.

I work in industry and deal with customers who use temporary services. When they get busy and ask their temporary help to work overtime, many times they refuse. Why? Because it would interfere with one of their government goodies--usually food stamps.

Temporaries keep their income purposely low so they can continue to collect handouts. That puts them in this category of "working poor" that you speak of. There have even been stories of places with huge minimum wage increases that makes employees work less hours for the same reason.

The answer is simple. Raise minimum wage to $15.00/hr.

Comprehension problems I presume?

I just got done stating to you that places that took huge increases in minimum wage had no impact on the so-called poor because they simply worked less hours. And you come back with "the answer is simple, raise minimum wage to $15.00 per hour?"

Here in the city of Cleveland, it's an entirely Democrat run government which is how it got ran into a hole. But a few months ago, the city tried to increase the minimum wage to $15.00 per hour. Even these liberal Democrats voted it down. Why? Because they knew it would chase industry out of Cleveland and into the suburbs.

The next step was to convince the county (Cuyahoga) to adopt Cleveland's idea so that businesses would not have to move to the suburbs. The county refused to go along with the idea for the same reason: it would chase businesses out of the county to adjoining counties.

When you create problems for businesses, businesses respond, and not likely in a positive way. It's one of the reasons tax abatements work when trying to attract businesses to your city or state. Show them that you are willing to give them tax breaks to make it financially easier to run their business, and they will choose you over a higher taxed city or state.

National minimum wage of $15.00/hr.

 

[koshergrl]

No, that was the housing market. Some bozos in our government thought it would be a good idea to force banks to give bad loans to people, and the market eventually collapsed.

No one in government told the banks to compromise their better judgement in seeing who was loan worthy. And speculators sold derivatives on the housing market which just exacerbated the problem.

actually, that's exactly what they told them.

 

[OnePercenter]

m

Do tell why all these 13M are poor. Do they all suffer from handicaps and mental illnesses that prevent them from working? Do they all have families who apparently shit on them and threw them out for the trouble?

Nay, far more likely they've made stupid decisions, similar to my son's, in trying to live a lifestyle that their paycheck cannot provide, or worse, those who turned to crime rather than commit themselves to a "proper" life.

I feel no obligation to support those who make stupid decisions in their life, especially when I believe, and am regularly told, that I've no right to tell someone how to live. To clarify, I've no problem with them doing as they wish, right up until they start reaching in my wallet to pay for their choices.

If the fools need more money, then they best get off their asses and earn it. There is nothing preventing them from finding a second job so they can have that unlimited cell phone plan, there is nothing preventing them from taking on a 2h a day paper route to pay for whatever it is they feel is holding them back from success...

The >13M are full-time workers. They are paid so little that they qualify as poor.

According to you, how many hours per week are full-time workers to work? 40, 80, 120?

According to you, how many jobs are workers to have? 2, 3, 4?

As of this week I have 790 employees. The lowest paid employees are paid $48,950.00 per year, plus 100% company paid benefits. Every employer should be doing his/her part.

My companys lowest paid worker is probably making under 20k a year full time. Hard to live off that

one person can live on that. This is why we used to teach people to work hard and don't get married till you are able to support a family. Also don't have sex or children, until you're married..

That's $1400.00/mo after taxes. Better get a number of roommates. Chump change.

yup that's called paying your dues. It's also called motivation. And poverty levels consider gross, not net.

What kind of crap is that? It's called paying your greatest asset. The people that make you all of your monies.

 

[OnePercenter]

Because too many American kids go to bed hungry at night God damn it. Too many families struggle to make ends meet. The middle class has been shrinking for quite some ti

Understood, but you didn't answer my question. If pay needs to be increased indexed by the cost of living, who should be in charge of that? Who should have to pay for that?

I mean it's not like there needs to be a committee in charge or make need funds to do so.. As the minimum wage increases, the market will even out on its own, as people are spending more money, investing etc. But a rise that is adequate based on living costs is the goal- that is how people will begin to live over the poverty line working 40 hours a week.

Maybe, but what's more likely to happen is as the minimum wage increases, it makes automation investments more attractive to businesses. When it's cheaper to buy machines to do the work instead of humans, that's what industry will turn to. After all, most of our manufacturing jobs were not lost overseas,, they were lost to automation.

if they want to use machines they will regardless of a small bump in pay.

What you have to understand is that it's not a small bump in pay.

When your employer give you a dollar an hour raise, it costs him or her much more than that dollar. Your employer has to match your Medicare and SS contributions. A raise increases your contributions (and your employers). Your employers workman's compensation insurance gets more expensive because if you get hurt on the job, it's more money they have to pay you since you make more money. Same with Unemployment insurance. Then there is vacation and holiday pay. That's when your employer pays you and gets nothing in return.

So now you take that and multiply it by X amount of employees, and it's a very large expense for the employer. I won't even get into the healthcare thing or if you have a retirement plan with your employer that he contributes to.

Net cost is 50 cents.

 

[OnePercenter]

My companys lowest paid worker is probably making under 20k a year full time. Hard to live off that

Back it can be done. And if they don't like it - they are free to go work somewhere else.

And not for nothing - but in my last position my salary increased $17,000 as my performance dictated increases and promotions. So that person may be at $20,000 today, but they don't have to be there tomorrow (and won't be if they perform).

It can barely be done, certainly not easy for lets say, a single mother. I don't think any American working 40 hours a week should be below the line of poverty.

tough shit. The stupid belief that small business owners, who DO work more than forty a week, should pay their unskilled workers more than they earn themselves is the height of fiscal stupidity. You morons who want others to subsidize the stupidity of others should finance that shit yourselves. Adopt an inner city single mom with five kids who can't read or speak like a human and who has never stayed at any job for more than two weeks, and giver her your paycheck when she starts working as a babysitter for other welfare moms so they can attend their required welfare jobs classes. I hope you make a lot of money, because she needs quite a bit, with five kids, to earn above the poverty level.

what stupid douches progressives are.

I work for a large company who could certainly afford to pay everyone a living wage and then some. They just don't have to.

How do you know they can afford it? And what's a living wage? Are they dying?

Living Wage Calculator

Add 20% more for rent

 

[OnePercenter]

It's hard to trust employers in America.

then be self employed so you can distrust yourself

Or you can regulate employers to do the right thing.

 

[Skull Pilot]

It's hard to trust employers in America.

then be self employed so you can distrust yourself

Or you can regulate employers to do the right thing.

employers for the most part pay their employees their agreed upon salary and comply with regulations

that is the "right" thing

if you people hate employers so much then stop fucking whining and be self employed

 

[P@triot]

Or you can regulate employers to do the right thing.

Or...better yet.....we can regulate people to do the right thing. As in - be a big boy or girl and take care of your own damn self.

 

[P@triot]

Or you can regulate employers to do the right thing.

Who gets to dictate what the "right" thing is? You?

Where do you or anyone derive the power to tell employers what to do?

 

[OnePercenter]

party economics is simple.

Party economics is simple...Detroit had to file bankruptcy after 65 years of complete utopian control by which party? The Democrats!

California is somewhere between $400 billion and $2 trillion in debt after control by which party? The Democrats!

That's due to workers not making enough money.

 

[OnePercenter]

How do we keep the poor from being so "problematic?" We higher minimum wage, provide universal health care, and make education affordable again.

Here is how...

View attachment 120844

American workers pay 72% of IRS collection, corporations pay 12%. Who isn't 'pulling his weight?'

End the Work Tax; only artificial Persons should have to work and pay tax in modern times.

Who would pay for tax based services?

 

[jasonnfree]

Poverty in the US is a mixture of laziness and irresponsibility; two things that don't go well for creating a future for yourself. It's up to the individual to get over both those hurdles--not the taxpayer.

How do you account for the >3M working class poor?

That would have to be studied on a case by case basis. More than likely those people made a lot of mistakes in life and that's what contributed to their plight.

I work in industry and deal with customers who use temporary services. When they get busy and ask their temporary help to work overtime, many times they refuse. Why? Because it would interfere with one of their government goodies--usually food stamps.

Temporaries keep their income purposely low so they can continue to collect handouts. That puts them in this category of "working poor" that you speak of. There have even been stories of places with huge minimum wage increases that makes employees work less hours for the same reason.

The answer is simple. Raise minimum wage to $15.00/hr.

Comprehension problems I presume?

I just got done stating to you that places that took huge increases in minimum wage had no impact on the so-called poor because they simply worked less hours. And you come back with "the answer is simple, raise minimum wage to $15.00 per hour?"

Here in the city of Cleveland, it's an entirely Democrat run government which is how it got ran into a hole. But a few months ago, the city tried to increase the minimum wage to $15.00 per hour. Even these liberal Democrats voted it down. Why? Because they knew it would chase industry out of Cleveland and into the suburbs.

The next step was to convince the county (Cuyahoga) to adopt Cleveland's idea so that businesses would not have to move to the suburbs. The county refused to go along with the idea for the same reason: it would chase businesses out of the county to adjoining counties.

When you create problems for businesses, businesses respond, and not likely in a positive way. It's one of the reasons tax abatements work when trying to attract businesses to your city or state. Show them that you are willing to give them tax breaks to make it financially easier to run their business, and they will choose you over a higher taxed city or state.

National minimum wage of $15.00/hr.

What if a business can't afford to pay $15 minimum wage? This is common, even in states with high costs of living like California.