How Evil is Libertarianism anyway?

[Synthaholic]

And if the government is in charge of where our charity goes, then it 'depends on government'.

Since government is 'the people', then people as a society would decide.

So you're saying that I can get a government license plate? I can walk into the White House just like any other government employee?

That the government is the people is a LIE.

Of course not. We The People have decided, through our elected representatives (and plain common sense) that we protect our leaders from the unbalanced and the malicious people in our country.

 

[bripat9643]

We can't have individual liberty...we must all be part of the collective..after all, massive unlimited government run by a small elite, works really really well.

Operating as a "collective" is what separated man from the animals

You of all people, should know the meaning of 'collective' as your fellow travelers the Communists define it.

Modern man is a collective

As we formed larger and larger societies we became more profitable and more powerful. Only anarchists want to return to the days of the caveman

Society and government are two separate and distinct things. The true sign of the collectivist worm is that they treat these two terms as if they are synonyms.

 

[bripat9643]

And if the government is in charge of where our charity goes, then it 'depends on government'.

Since government is 'the people', then people as a society would decide.

So you're saying that I can get a government license plate? I can walk into the White House just like any other government employee?

That the government is the people is a LIE.

Of course not. We The People have decided, through our elected representatives (and plain common sense) that we protect our leaders from the unbalanced and the malicious people in our country.

So we protect the government from people who aren't the government.

Thanks for admitting it.

 

[bripat9643]

We can't have individual liberty...we must all be part of the collective..after all, massive unlimited government run by a small elite, works really really well.

Operating as a "collective" is what separated man from the animals

You of all people, should know the meaning of 'collective' as your fellow travelers the Communists define it.

Modern man is a collective

As we formed larger and larger societies we became more profitable and more powerful. Only anarchists want to return to the days of the caveman

Libertarianism is in essence reactionary and sophomoric, untenable in the modern industrialized West.

As usual, your idiotic pronunciation is accompanied by the usual evidence: none.

 

[Agit8r]

I think of it like utopian socialism; not really evil so much as naive and impracticable. Because both overestimate the benevolence of human nature.

Libertarians have no illusions about human nature. If you think humans are intrinsically evil, then why would you want to create an all powerful monopoly called government and stuff it full of these creatures? If that isn't the height of naivete, I don't know what the term means.

And equally, why would one leave all power to psychopathic strongmen?

 

[P@triot]

I have long been acquainted with Libertarians and used to find them kind of adorable in a yapping lapdog kind of way, bitching about the Federal governments over reach, the rise in taxes and why doesnt the GOP have more Libertarians in it?

Well now we have a blend of conservative and Libertarian that many people confuse with 'true' conservatism, but it is NOT conservatism. It is the putrid purge from the mind of an evil avowed atheist escapee from the Soviet Union who had no use for love or charity or God. All Ayn Rand wanted was for people to hate the government and be willing to kill each other to keep their toys. The deepest thought she produced was a complex system of excuses to let your neighbor starve in the street as was common in many parts of the Soviet Union of her time.

William F Buckley Jr and Whitaker Chambers both exposed Rand for the loveless bitch she was deep in her soul. Both observed that 'Atlas Shrugged' was a fantasy shpeel of a world devoid of God, Christian mercy and charity and any semblance of community. They were quite right to denounce her work, her novels and her values system as alien to the body of Conservative American thought.

But fast forward to today's corporate America and we find Rand rehabilitated and flourishing under the guise of conservatism again, a.k.a. 'Conservatarians' and it is rotting Conservatism from the inside, like a cancer.

The take over of the Conservative movement by 'Conservatarians' or Rand Objectivists is a real disaster for the Conservative movement as we enter a new Digital Age in which jobs will be scarce and the party that offers to help other Americans through their adjustment to it will be the majority party for the distant future. Conservatarians cant even put the words together about how to care for other Americans, because deep in their hearts they truly just dont give a shit about anyone but themselves and maybe a few friends.

Which means that either Conservatism will shed itself of these useless evil parasites that are a pimple on Conservatism's ass or the Conservative movement will die the well deserved death of wicked heresies.

The funny thing is - the U.S.S.R. that Ayn Rand escaped from collapsed under the exact same stupidity that you support and desire to bring to the U.S. That is a special kind of stupid.

What specific liberal policies do you fear?

All of them - as they have a failure rate of 100%.

For instance - the policy that it's ok to spend more than you take in (Barack Obama has spent over $9 trillion - or almost as much as every president in U.S. history combined).

Or the policy of stealing income from people in the form of outrageous taxes and then pissing away that money in the form of waste, fraud, and abuse.

Or the policy of eliminating the free-market and replacing it with central planning.

Or the policy of "universal healthcare" which has proven to be unsustainable world wide.

Or the policy of....well...you get the point. As I said, all of them has they have a spectacular failure rate of 100% world wide.

 

[Never3ndr]

I have long been acquainted with Libertarians and used to find them kind of adorable in a yapping lapdog kind of way, bitching about the Federal governments over reach, the rise in taxes and why doesnt the GOP have more Libertarians in it?

Well now we have a blend of conservative and Libertarian that many people confuse with 'true' conservatism, but it is NOT conservatism. It is the putrid purge from the mind of an evil avowed atheist escapee from the Soviet Union who had no use for love or charity or God. All Ayn Rand wanted was for people to hate the government and be willing to kill each other to keep their toys. The deepest thought she produced was a complex system of excuses to let your neighbor starve in the street as was common in many parts of the Soviet Union of her time.

William F Buckley Jr and Whitaker Chambers both exposed Rand for the loveless bitch she was deep in her soul. Both observed that 'Atlas Shrugged' was a fantasy shpeel of a world devoid of God, Christian mercy and charity and any semblance of community. They were quite right to denounce her work, her novels and her values system as alien to the body of Conservative American thought.

But fast forward to today's corporate America and we find Rand rehabilitated and flourishing under the guise of conservatism again, a.k.a. 'Conservatarians' and it is rotting Conservatism from the inside, like a cancer.

The take over of the Conservative movement by 'Conservatarians' or Rand Objectivists is a real disaster for the Conservative movement as we enter a new Digital Age in which jobs will be scarce and the party that offers to help other Americans through their adjustment to it will be the majority party for the distant future. Conservatarians cant even put the words together about how to care for other Americans, because deep in their hearts they truly just dont give a shit about anyone but themselves and maybe a few friends.

Which means that either Conservatism will shed itself of these useless evil parasites that are a pimple on Conservatism's ass or the Conservative movement will die the well deserved death of wicked heresies.

Libertarianism is not at all practical on an administrative level. It's simply an emotional, self-serving ideology. It that has no place in government capacity.

Really? Why not? You freedom hating douche bags keep saying stuff like this, but you never prove it.

I don't agree with Bripat often so I just wanted to reference one of the few times that I do.

 

[bripat9643]

I'm glad that you find nothing loathsome about the idea that we each should leave others alone unless/until they trespass against the person or property of their fellow man.

That simple principle is the defining characteristic of libertarianism.

Yes of small 'l' libertarianism, but not BIG 'L' Libertarianism, i.e. Randian Libertarianism or Objectivism which is what the hard core Libertarian leadership is composed of.

I will never forget the Libertarian Party meeting I attended where about a dozen people were there not counting myself. Twelve of us were Constitutionalist small 'l' libertarians, while the guy in charge was a Randian Objectivist who did not want anyone in the group if they wanted to keep Social Security.

That was when I realized even way back then, that Libertarians will never have power unless they engage in fraud to get it.


And they are.

You mean like the Democrats and Republicans engage in fraud?

 

[bripat9643]

I'm glad that you find nothing loathsome about the idea that we each should leave others alone unless/until they trespass against the person or property of their fellow man.

That simple principle is the defining characteristic of libertarianism.

Yes of small 'l' libertarianism, but not BIG 'L' Libertarianism, i.e. Randian Libertarianism or Objectivism which is what the hard core Libertarian leadership is composed of.

I will never forget the Libertarian Party meeting I attended where about a dozen people were there not counting myself. Twelve of us were Constitutionalist small 'l' libertarians, while the guy in charge was a Randian Objectivist who did not want anyone in the group if they wanted to keep Social Security.

That was when I realized even way back then, that Libertarians will never have power unless they engage in fraud to get it.


And they are.

Was your OP about the Libertarian party or about the political philosophy of libertarianism? Or was is about Rand's Objectivism?

It was about Objectivism which *IS* the ideology of Libertarian leadership today, and the various Libertarians who would rather see people starve rather than the government give them aid.

Got it yet?

Starvation occurs only under authoritarians forms of government like the kind that you endorse. The more freedom a society enjoys, the better nourished its members become.

 

[bripat9643]

Seeking to compel conformity through the force of law violates the libertarian principle that we should leave others alone unless/until they trespass against the person or property of their fellow man. Thus it's not a libertarian position.

There is a huge distinction between compelling conformity and having the public define what is acceptable in public behavior.

Yes, I support having a third bathroom available for transgender people instead of having mutilated males go into a womans restroom, but segregating the genders in restrooms is an example of forcing people to conform to the expectations of others. If you want to mutilate yourself, that is your twisted preference, but dont compel the rest of us to be exposed to your perversions.

Hence Libertarianism is actually at war with Conservatism, not an ally of it or version of it.

I think the libertarian position is that the owner of a restroom should be the one to determine the rules of its use.

And I agree that conservatism and libertarianism are two distinct political philosophies and that they are frequently in conflict.

I think the libertarian position is that the owner of a restroom should be the one to determine the rules of its use.

So you agree with "Colored" restrooms if that is what the owner wants?

It's not the same thing. Defending someone's right to do something isn't the same as approving of that something. Is that too subtle for you?

Yes it is. Left wing douche bags like RightWinger continually state that opposition to government looting of the wealthy is the same as being a shill for the wealthy.

 

[P@triot]

Libertarianism is not at all practical on an administrative level.

One of the reasons why there are no world governments based on it.

Well there is some "vintage logic" for you. History is completely filled with murderous dictators due to the evil of human nature for power and control over others (such as Adolf Hitler, Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin, Benito Mussolini, Saddam Hussien, etc.) all of which have been spectacular failures.

Now, a normal, rational person would do the complete opposite of those failed dictators to get the complete opposite results (i.e. what America did in 1776 - libertarianism). But not Synthy here. Nope! He wants to copy the failed centralized planning of those failed murderous dictators.

 

[bripat9643]

The political philosophy of libertarianism is based on the principle that people should be left alone unless/until they trespass against the person or property of someone else. That's what actually makes one a libertarian.

Blaming the victim and holding that poor people ought to starve is not a tenet of libertarian political philosophy. It might be a tenet of Rand's Objectivism, but I don't know/care about Objectivism, which isn't libertarianism.

But if Libertarians oppose welfare programs that have that impact, and support policies that have that impact, then they in effect do advocate that the poor be left to starve.

Wrong again.

 

[bripat9643]

But if Libertarians oppose welfare programs that have that impact, and support policies that have that impact, then they in effect do advocate that the poor be left to starve.

This is very black and white thinking. Just because someone opposes the idea of a government dole doesn't mean that they advocate that the poor be left to starve.

For example, I oppose a government dole because it violates libertarian principles. However, as a Catholic, I certainly don't advocate that people be left to starve. I hold that each of us should offer help to those in need.

It's not as black and white as you make it out to be.

However, as a Catholic, I certainly don't advocate that people be left to starve. I hold that each of us should offer help to those in need.


What happens to those not worthy of your "help"?

One thing is certain: you won't help them.

 

[P@triot]

This isn't the Jim Crow era any more.

Have you seen a Drumpf rally? They want to bring it back.

Have you seen the Trump rally's? Where the violent, oppressive, authoritarian idiot liberals turn to violence to prevent the people from hearing an alternative to the failed policies of liberalism. Typical...

 

[Billy000]

I have long been acquainted with Libertarians and used to find them kind of adorable in a yapping lapdog kind of way, bitching about the Federal governments over reach, the rise in taxes and why doesnt the GOP have more Libertarians in it?

Well now we have a blend of conservative and Libertarian that many people confuse with 'true' conservatism, but it is NOT conservatism. It is the putrid purge from the mind of an evil avowed atheist escapee from the Soviet Union who had no use for love or charity or God. All Ayn Rand wanted was for people to hate the government and be willing to kill each other to keep their toys. The deepest thought she produced was a complex system of excuses to let your neighbor starve in the street as was common in many parts of the Soviet Union of her time.

William F Buckley Jr and Whitaker Chambers both exposed Rand for the loveless bitch she was deep in her soul. Both observed that 'Atlas Shrugged' was a fantasy shpeel of a world devoid of God, Christian mercy and charity and any semblance of community. They were quite right to denounce her work, her novels and her values system as alien to the body of Conservative American thought.

But fast forward to today's corporate America and we find Rand rehabilitated and flourishing under the guise of conservatism again, a.k.a. 'Conservatarians' and it is rotting Conservatism from the inside, like a cancer.

The take over of the Conservative movement by 'Conservatarians' or Rand Objectivists is a real disaster for the Conservative movement as we enter a new Digital Age in which jobs will be scarce and the party that offers to help other Americans through their adjustment to it will be the majority party for the distant future. Conservatarians cant even put the words together about how to care for other Americans, because deep in their hearts they truly just dont give a shit about anyone but themselves and maybe a few friends.

Which means that either Conservatism will shed itself of these useless evil parasites that are a pimple on Conservatism's ass or the Conservative movement will die the well deserved death of wicked heresies.

Libertarianism is not at all practical on an administrative level. It's simply an emotional, self-serving ideology. It that has no place in government capacity.

Really? Why not? You freedom hating douche bags keep saying stuff like this, but you never prove it.

Well the proof is pretty obvious. Name a single successful libertarian nation on the planet.

 

[P@triot]

What the fuck are you whimpering about?

What violence has been directed at business owners?

The violence you advocate:

"No violence unless you create a dangerous scene

Otherwise, your business is just shut down [with violence, presumably?] until you can follow the rules"

Show me the violence directed at business owners

Have you seen a Trump rally? It had to be shut down in Chicago due to the violence of idiot liberals.

 

[bripat9643]

So you agree with "Colored" restrooms if that is what the owner wants?

If a business is stupid enough to decide that, sure.

But I'd like to know beforehand so I can sell my house and put all the proceeds into shorting that company's stock.

Didn't affect them a bit during the Jim Crow era

In fact, the racists would boycott them if they allowed integrated bathrooms. It was the courts, not public opinion that forced the issue

Jim Crow was legally enforced, you fucking moron. When businesses were given the option of treating blacks the same as whites, they always did. This fact is why the Jim Crow laws were created in the first place.

It's no surprise that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

 

[bripat9643]

I have long been acquainted with Libertarians and used to find them kind of adorable in a yapping lapdog kind of way, bitching about the Federal governments over reach, the rise in taxes and why doesnt the GOP have more Libertarians in it?

Well now we have a blend of conservative and Libertarian that many people confuse with 'true' conservatism, but it is NOT conservatism. It is the putrid purge from the mind of an evil avowed atheist escapee from the Soviet Union who had no use for love or charity or God. All Ayn Rand wanted was for people to hate the government and be willing to kill each other to keep their toys. The deepest thought she produced was a complex system of excuses to let your neighbor starve in the street as was common in many parts of the Soviet Union of her time.

William F Buckley Jr and Whitaker Chambers both exposed Rand for the loveless bitch she was deep in her soul. Both observed that 'Atlas Shrugged' was a fantasy shpeel of a world devoid of God, Christian mercy and charity and any semblance of community. They were quite right to denounce her work, her novels and her values system as alien to the body of Conservative American thought.

But fast forward to today's corporate America and we find Rand rehabilitated and flourishing under the guise of conservatism again, a.k.a. 'Conservatarians' and it is rotting Conservatism from the inside, like a cancer.

The take over of the Conservative movement by 'Conservatarians' or Rand Objectivists is a real disaster for the Conservative movement as we enter a new Digital Age in which jobs will be scarce and the party that offers to help other Americans through their adjustment to it will be the majority party for the distant future. Conservatarians cant even put the words together about how to care for other Americans, because deep in their hearts they truly just dont give a shit about anyone but themselves and maybe a few friends.

Which means that either Conservatism will shed itself of these useless evil parasites that are a pimple on Conservatism's ass or the Conservative movement will die the well deserved death of wicked heresies.

Libertarianism is not at all practical on an administrative level. It's simply an emotional, self-serving ideology. It that has no place in government capacity.

Really? Why not? You freedom hating douche bags keep saying stuff like this, but you never prove it.

Well the proof is pretty obvious. Name a single successful libertarian nation on the planet.

The United States prior to 1914.

 

[Synthaholic]

Do you seriously think that if McDonalds instituted colored bathrooms that they would continue to be in business?

No, but Bubba's Shrimp Shack in Greenville, Mississippi could.

And who cares? It would be great break for Mary's Shrimp Shack.

You think there's economic opportunity awaiting everyone, everywhere. It's just not so.

 

[bripat9643]

Didn't affect them a bit during the Jim Crow era

In fact, the racists would boycott them if they allowed integrated bathrooms. It was the courts, not public opinion that forced the issue

This isn't the Jim Crow era any more. Do you seriously think that if McDonalds instituted colored bathrooms that they would continue to be in business?

Times change...the issues evolve

We are now obsessed with the bathroom habits of the transgendered

Yep, and who are the main opponents to the law in NC?