How Evil is Libertarianism anyway?

[P@triot]

And if the government is in charge of where our charity goes, then it 'depends on government'.

Since government is 'the people', then people as a society would decide.

Government is "the people"? Really? So you are the asshole responsible for Abu Ghraib? You're the one who should be prosecuted for it? Oh wait - you were also behind Guantanamo Bay? And let's not forget the highly illegal felonious wiretapping expanded by the NSA - which was expanded under Barack Obama.

Man...you are going to be brought up on a lot of charges if you were responsible for all of that stuff as you claim. I can tell you unequivocally that I was not responsible. I had no voice in any of it.

 

[P@triot]

Do you seriously think that if McDonalds instituted colored bathrooms that they would continue to be in business?

No, but Bubba's Shrimp Shack in Greenville, Mississippi could.

And who cares? It would be great break for Mary's Shrimp Shack.

You think there's economic opportunity awaiting everyone, everywhere. It's just not so.

Of course not - that's what happens with liberal policy. If we'd eliminate that stupidity there would be endless opportunity for everybody, everywhere...

 

[bripat9643]

Dumbest solution I have ever heard

The real problem is that conservatives do not want the transgendered to use either bathroom. They would just as soon beat the shit out of them

We're talking about libertarianism not conservatism, so who cares what conservatives want?

And what is dumb about allowing the owner of something to determine how that thing is used?

We don't serve colored here

A libertarian ideal

Outright slander seems to be the only arrow in your quiver.

 

[P@triot]

Your business breaks the law ...you are fined. Don't pay the fine and you will be shut down.

You have access to the courts, if you become violent when you are shut down, you get arrested.

See how easy it is?

Sitting on the sidelines refusing to be a productive member of society and demanding the right to be a parasite off the labor of others is always easy. It's just immoral to the rest of us winger.

 

[bripat9643]

Exactly......

We don't serve colored here is a libertarian utopia

It's actually not. In fact, every libertarian I know finds the idea reprehensible.

However, unlike authoritarians, a libertarian doesn't use force to make people act the way he wishes. To a libertarian, force is always unjustified unless/until someone trespasses against someone's person or property.

Libertarian....none of my business if you don't want to serve negroes

Wrong again. It's not government's business if you don't want to serve, regardless of your reasons.

If you want to run your business in our society, you have to follow our rules

It applies to building codes, labor regulations, hours you are allowed to operate and who you are required to serve

We all know what the law is. We don't need a moron like you to explain it.

 

[bripat9643]

Libertarians are like economists - good to have around for reference now and then, but best when kept in their own lanes.

Mac, Do you respect the life, liberty and property of others and eschew aggression against other peaceful human beings?

To the second part of that, yes. To the first part, I would need more comprehensive description of the terms "liberty" and "property".
.

fingernail definitions might look like this:
Liberty.... I can do whatever I choose as long as what I choose to do doesn't infringe on the life, liberty and property of others.
Property.... that which I have acquired through the utilization of my own mind and/or body and/or have acquired by voluntary exchange with others.

Do I respect them? Yes. Are they absolute? No.

you don't think that you eschewing aggression against other peaceful persons is absolute?

No, I said I agree with that part of the question, that we eschew aggression on other peaceful people.

Regarding property, I'm not an absolutist there. I think a society, particularly a wealthy and advanced society, can make a conscious decision to create a foundation for those who simply don't have the capacity to generate significant wealth (or health, for that matter). That would require identifying a point of equilibrium at which (a) people are not made to be so dependent on others that it significantly retards their own growth, and (b) taxes and restrictions on those who do have the capacity to generate significant wealth are not so onerous as to disincentivize their wealth-creating production.

Where is that point of equilibrium? The ballot box. And if those on the more libertarian side of the equation want to turn things around and make gains, they'll have to do a better job of messaging. And further, they'll have to realize that we did not get to this level of dependency overnight, nor will we be able to move away from it overnight. If this happens at all, and I'm very doubtful, it will have to be accomplished with skill and patience, not with volume and absolutism.

FYI, I took a political test a while back, and I think the results were pretty accurate:

.

What would the difference be between an absolutist regarding property and a non-absolutist regarding property?

The non absolutist believes the government should be able to confiscate your property so a developer can use it to build a parking lot for a gambling casino.

 

[P@triot]

I think of it like utopian socialism; not really evil so much as naive and impracticable. Because both overestimate the benevolence of human nature.

Which is exactly why freedom and libertarianism always works. Because it inherently accounts for the failures of human nature by ensuring that all of society is not drug down by the failures of a few (unlike liberalism which ensures the destruction of all by the failures of a few).

If I'm not tied to you in anyway, you're choices to get high and not hold a job do not affect me. If you're not tied to me in anyway, my choices to gamble everything I have in the stock market or in creating my own business do not affect you. It's why it's a flawless system.

 

[P@triot]

We can't have individual liberty...we must all be part of the collective..after all, massive unlimited government run by a small elite, works really really well.

Operating as a "collective" is what separated man from the animals

You mean like bees, termites and ants?

Watching you treat winger like a small, petulant child is freaking hilarious

 

[Synthaholic]

Keep in mind that Jim Crow was government, the opposite of libertarian

Government is 'the people'.

Amazing how libertarians can't seem to understand this simple truth.

Government is "the people".

I'm one of "the people."

Why didn't my kid's government school let me in to walk around?

Why didn't my local police department let me in to hang around?

Why can't I get one of those fancy police cars I see on my local highway?

This is too retarded to respond to.

Do all libertarians believe you should be able to just walk into the White House?

 

[Billy000]

I have long been acquainted with Libertarians and used to find them kind of adorable in a yapping lapdog kind of way, bitching about the Federal governments over reach, the rise in taxes and why doesnt the GOP have more Libertarians in it?

Well now we have a blend of conservative and Libertarian that many people confuse with 'true' conservatism, but it is NOT conservatism. It is the putrid purge from the mind of an evil avowed atheist escapee from the Soviet Union who had no use for love or charity or God. All Ayn Rand wanted was for people to hate the government and be willing to kill each other to keep their toys. The deepest thought she produced was a complex system of excuses to let your neighbor starve in the street as was common in many parts of the Soviet Union of her time.

William F Buckley Jr and Whitaker Chambers both exposed Rand for the loveless bitch she was deep in her soul. Both observed that 'Atlas Shrugged' was a fantasy shpeel of a world devoid of God, Christian mercy and charity and any semblance of community. They were quite right to denounce her work, her novels and her values system as alien to the body of Conservative American thought.

But fast forward to today's corporate America and we find Rand rehabilitated and flourishing under the guise of conservatism again, a.k.a. 'Conservatarians' and it is rotting Conservatism from the inside, like a cancer.

The take over of the Conservative movement by 'Conservatarians' or Rand Objectivists is a real disaster for the Conservative movement as we enter a new Digital Age in which jobs will be scarce and the party that offers to help other Americans through their adjustment to it will be the majority party for the distant future. Conservatarians cant even put the words together about how to care for other Americans, because deep in their hearts they truly just dont give a shit about anyone but themselves and maybe a few friends.

Which means that either Conservatism will shed itself of these useless evil parasites that are a pimple on Conservatism's ass or the Conservative movement will die the well deserved death of wicked heresies.

Libertarianism is not at all practical on an administrative level. It's simply an emotional, self-serving ideology. It that has no place in government capacity.

Really? Why not? You freedom hating douche bags keep saying stuff like this, but you never prove it.

Well the proof is pretty obvious. Name a single successful libertarian nation on the planet.

The United States prior to 1914.

Oh gee and what made it libertarian exactly? And why was there so much economic growth after that?

 

[bripat9643]

We can't have individual liberty...we must all be part of the collective..after all, massive unlimited government run by a small elite, works really really well.

Operating as a "collective" is what separated man from the animals

You mean like bees, termites and ants?

Watching you treat winger like a small, petulant child is freaking hilarious

I don't know any other way to treat him. How are you supposed to treat an infantile petulant moral reprobate who is incapable of committing logic?

 

[bripat9643]

I have long been acquainted with Libertarians and used to find them kind of adorable in a yapping lapdog kind of way, bitching about the Federal governments over reach, the rise in taxes and why doesnt the GOP have more Libertarians in it?

Well now we have a blend of conservative and Libertarian that many people confuse with 'true' conservatism, but it is NOT conservatism. It is the putrid purge from the mind of an evil avowed atheist escapee from the Soviet Union who had no use for love or charity or God. All Ayn Rand wanted was for people to hate the government and be willing to kill each other to keep their toys. The deepest thought she produced was a complex system of excuses to let your neighbor starve in the street as was common in many parts of the Soviet Union of her time.

William F Buckley Jr and Whitaker Chambers both exposed Rand for the loveless bitch she was deep in her soul. Both observed that 'Atlas Shrugged' was a fantasy shpeel of a world devoid of God, Christian mercy and charity and any semblance of community. They were quite right to denounce her work, her novels and her values system as alien to the body of Conservative American thought.

But fast forward to today's corporate America and we find Rand rehabilitated and flourishing under the guise of conservatism again, a.k.a. 'Conservatarians' and it is rotting Conservatism from the inside, like a cancer.

The take over of the Conservative movement by 'Conservatarians' or Rand Objectivists is a real disaster for the Conservative movement as we enter a new Digital Age in which jobs will be scarce and the party that offers to help other Americans through their adjustment to it will be the majority party for the distant future. Conservatarians cant even put the words together about how to care for other Americans, because deep in their hearts they truly just dont give a shit about anyone but themselves and maybe a few friends.

Which means that either Conservatism will shed itself of these useless evil parasites that are a pimple on Conservatism's ass or the Conservative movement will die the well deserved death of wicked heresies.

Libertarianism is not at all practical on an administrative level. It's simply an emotional, self-serving ideology. It that has no place in government capacity.

Really? Why not? You freedom hating douche bags keep saying stuff like this, but you never prove it.

Well the proof is pretty obvious. Name a single successful libertarian nation on the planet.

The United States prior to 1914.

Oh gee and what made it libertarian exactly? And why was there so much economic growth after that?

The extreme lack of government is what made it libertarian. The economy has never grown as fast as it grew in the 2nd half of the 19th century.

 

[P@triot]

We can't have individual liberty...we must all be part of the collective..after all, massive unlimited government run by a small elite, works really really well.

Operating as a "collective" is what separated man from the animals

Well aside from how ignorant that comment is (as pointed out by Bripat) - who the hell are you (or anyone else) to decide for me that I must be part of a "collective"?

Oh wait - that's right - you need us to be part of a "collective". If we're not - how can you mooch off of us?

 

[P@triot]

Keep in mind that Jim Crow was government, the opposite of libertarian

Government is 'the people'.

Amazing how libertarians can't seem to understand this simple truth.

Government is "the people".

I'm one of "the people."

Why didn't my kid's government school let me in to walk around?

Why didn't my local police department let me in to hang around?

Why can't I get one of those fancy police cars I see on my local highway?

This is too retarded to respond to.

Do all libertarians believe you should be able to just walk into the White House?

Well as a matter of fact Syn...I "identify" as President of the United States. And yet all of you hateful, bigoted, liberals don't support my right to unfettered access to the Oval Office, Air Force 1, the presidential limo, and a Secret Service detail.

But you people will sure support a 42 year old man stripping naked in front of a 6 year old girl and then watching her pee. Ahhh....liberal "logic".

 

[Billy000]

Libertarianism is not at all practical on an administrative level. It's simply an emotional, self-serving ideology. It that has no place in government capacity.

Really? Why not? You freedom hating douche bags keep saying stuff like this, but you never prove it.

Well the proof is pretty obvious. Name a single successful libertarian nation on the planet.

The United States prior to 1914.

Oh gee and what made it libertarian exactly? And why was there so much economic growth after that?

The extreme lack of government is what made it libertarian. The economy has never grown as fast as it grew in the 2nd half of the 19th century.

Lol are you kidding me? Extreme lack of government how? As usual, you just make shit up as you go along.

 

[Billy000]

Keep in mind that Jim Crow was government, the opposite of libertarian

Government is 'the people'.

Amazing how libertarians can't seem to understand this simple truth.

Government is "the people".

I'm one of "the people."

Why didn't my kid's government school let me in to walk around?

Why didn't my local police department let me in to hang around?

Why can't I get one of those fancy police cars I see on my local highway?

This is too retarded to respond to.

Do all libertarians believe you should be able to just walk into the White House?

Well as a matter of fact Syn...I "identify" as President of the United States. And yet all of you hateful, bigoted, liberals don't support my right to unfettered access to the Oval Office, Air Force 1, the presidential limo, and a Secret Service detail.

But you people will sure support a 42 year old man stripping naked in front of a 6 year old girl and then watching her pee. Ahhh....liberal "logic".

Could you people be any more narcissistic?

 

[Synthaholic]

Barack Obama has spent over $9 trillion

Stop with the bullshit. Unless you're ready to itemize that $9T you're talking out your ass.

And you know nothing about the Constitution, which puts the purse in the hands of the House, which has been run by Republicans since January 2011.

 

[Synthaholic]

Libertarianism is not at all practical on an administrative level.

One of the reasons why there are no world governments based on it.

Well there is some "vintage logic" for you. History is completely filled with murderous dictators due to the evil of human nature for power and control over others (such as Adolf Hitler, Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin, Benito Mussolini, Saddam Hussien, etc.) all of which have been spectacular failures.

Now, a normal, rational person would do the complete opposite of those failed dictators to get the complete opposite results (i.e. what America did in 1776 - libertarianism). But not Synthy here. Nope! He wants to copy the failed centralized planning of those failed murderous dictators.

Two paragraphs of noise to deflect from telling us which world governments are libertarian. Hint - none.

 

[Synthaholic]

I have long been acquainted with Libertarians and used to find them kind of adorable in a yapping lapdog kind of way, bitching about the Federal governments over reach, the rise in taxes and why doesnt the GOP have more Libertarians in it?

Well now we have a blend of conservative and Libertarian that many people confuse with 'true' conservatism, but it is NOT conservatism. It is the putrid purge from the mind of an evil avowed atheist escapee from the Soviet Union who had no use for love or charity or God. All Ayn Rand wanted was for people to hate the government and be willing to kill each other to keep their toys. The deepest thought she produced was a complex system of excuses to let your neighbor starve in the street as was common in many parts of the Soviet Union of her time.

William F Buckley Jr and Whitaker Chambers both exposed Rand for the loveless bitch she was deep in her soul. Both observed that 'Atlas Shrugged' was a fantasy shpeel of a world devoid of God, Christian mercy and charity and any semblance of community. They were quite right to denounce her work, her novels and her values system as alien to the body of Conservative American thought.

But fast forward to today's corporate America and we find Rand rehabilitated and flourishing under the guise of conservatism again, a.k.a. 'Conservatarians' and it is rotting Conservatism from the inside, like a cancer.

The take over of the Conservative movement by 'Conservatarians' or Rand Objectivists is a real disaster for the Conservative movement as we enter a new Digital Age in which jobs will be scarce and the party that offers to help other Americans through their adjustment to it will be the majority party for the distant future. Conservatarians cant even put the words together about how to care for other Americans, because deep in their hearts they truly just dont give a shit about anyone but themselves and maybe a few friends.

Which means that either Conservatism will shed itself of these useless evil parasites that are a pimple on Conservatism's ass or the Conservative movement will die the well deserved death of wicked heresies.

Libertarianism is not at all practical on an administrative level. It's simply an emotional, self-serving ideology. It that has no place in government capacity.

Really? Why not? You freedom hating douche bags keep saying stuff like this, but you never prove it.

Well the proof is pretty obvious. Name a single successful libertarian nation on the planet.

Even an unsuccessful one!

 

[Synthaholic]

What the fuck are you whimpering about?

What violence has been directed at business owners?

The violence you advocate:

"No violence unless you create a dangerous scene

Otherwise, your business is just shut down [with violence, presumably?] until you can follow the rules"

Show me the violence directed at business owners

Have you seen a Trump rally? It had to be shut down in Chicago due to the violence of idiot liberals.

Right. Liberals are the ones at Drumpf rallies, assaulting Black Lives Matter protesters, and cheering him when he promotes bigotry.

You're a dishonest retard. And only a Liberal will tell you that - the libertarians and conservatives will stay silent out of ideological unity, even though they know you're a moron.