How far have we already gone?

[Uncensored2008]

The earth is incredibly resilient. It will survive Humans. And thanks to the Conservative denial..it may not have to wait all that long.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

At the present 395 ppm of CO2, what are we already committed to in terms of ice melt, disregarding feedback effects? According to the paleo-record, an increase of about 25 meters in sea level.

Oh my!

Is there any way to appease the gods? If we were to give our virgin daughters to the Shamans, Michael Mann, Pope Algore, Phil Jones, etc.? Could they intervene with Gaea on behalf of our carbon sins, so she won't destroy the world due to our wickedness?

Will you, the good and faithful, be raptured before Gaea unleashes her wrath and destroys the world?

The Warmers need to live up to their fears and stop posting their dire warnings on the Internet. They're using electricity which burns fossils fuels which causes the oceans to turn acidic and rise melting the ice caps in the process

 

[Old Rocks]

In English as a non-retard language, too acidic is any solution, which won't let calcification occur, so shellfish and plankton cannot form their shells.

Yeah, got that. Unlike you, I actually have some college chemistry under my belt. In fact, I was a chemistry major till I decided that I wanted to pursue orthodontics.

I asked you a question and apparently you couldn't find anything to cut and paste that provided an answer to the actual question I asked. Clearly, you are unable to actually discuss the topic and are nothing more than a cut and paste drone.

I asked you to define "to acidic" in terms of PH and then tell me how much CO2 you believe would need to be exchanged from the atmosphere to the ocean and under what temperature conditions this would need to happen.

Here is a clue guy, I am trying to get you to do just a bit of work and learn that if we burned every drop of fossil fuel on the planet during the depths of an ice age when the ocean could hold the maximum concentration of CO2, there wouldn't be enough to make the ocean acidic enough to kill off the life that evolved there during periods when atmospheric CO2 was measured in thousands of ppm.

In short, the sky isn't falling and all the hand waving hysterics you care to bring here isn't going to change that even one small bit.

Aragonite is more soluble than calscite, and the affects of minor shifts toward the acidit affect the ability of single celled animals that create their shells out of it to survive. Many larger animals use aragonite in their larveal stage, as we saw with the oyster dieoffs.

Present increasing acidity of the oceans are having an affect over the whole food chain.

 

[Old Rocks]

Unprecedented, man-made trends in ocean's acidity

Today's levels of aragonite saturation in these locations have already dropped five times below the pre-industrial range of natural variability. For example, if the yearly cycle in aragonite saturation varied between 4.7 and 4.8, it varies now between 4.2 and 4.3, which – based on another recent study – may translate into a decrease in overall calcification rates of corals and other aragonite shell-forming organisms by 15%. Given the continued human use of fossil fuels, the saturation levels will drop further, potentially reducing calcification rates of some marine organisms by more than 40% of their pre-industrial values within the next 90 years.

"Any significant drop below the minimum level of aragonite to which the organisms have been exposed to for thousands of years and have successfully adapted will very likely stress them and their associated ecosystems," says lead author Postdoctoral Fellow Tobias Friedrich.




IMAGE: The upper panels shows simulated surface aragonite saturation for the years 1800, 2012 and 2100, respectively. White dots indicate present-day main coral reef locations. The lower panels shows atmospheric CO2...


Click here for more information.



"In some regions, the man-made rate of change in ocean acidity since the Industrial Revolution is hundred times greater than the natural rate of change between the Last Glacial Maximum and pre-industrial times," emphasizes Friedrich. "When Earth started to warm 17,000 years ago, terminating the last glacial period, atmospheric CO2 levels rose from 190 parts per million (ppm) to 280 ppm over 6,000 years. Marine ecosystems had ample time to adjust. Now, for a similar rise in CO2 concentration to the present level of 392 ppm, the adjustment time is reduced to only 100 – 200 years."

 

[Uncensored2008]

The Warmers need to live up to their fears and stop posting their dire warnings on the Internet. They're using electricity which burns fossils fuels which causes the oceans to turn acidic and rise melting the ice caps in the process

No, no, no. Sacrifice is for the vile infidels. The pure and holy crusaders for Gaea need not suffer the deprivations visited upon the peasantry.

YOU will be punished for the sin of not being impoverished and groveling at the feet of an elite ruling caste.

YOU will be returned to starvation and cold, with no transportation save that which the rulers deem necessary to get you to the mines or fields that you are to labor in.

They will enjoy all the benefits of current technology. Of course, advancement will stop as they have never created anything, nor ever will.

 

[Old Rocks]

Ol' Bent does not seem to understand the differance between calcite and aragonite. Nor the relationship between a minor shift in PH, and the ability of certain food chain base organism capability of creating a protective shell.

Outreach

And you do? Now I've heard everything! The two have the exact same chemical composition (CaCO3) and are polymorphous to each other. The only real difference between them is in their crystalline structure. Calcite being trigonal and aragonite being orthorombic. Oh yeah calcite can also be flourescent whereas aragonite isn't.

God, as a geologist you are one dumb fuck. The very major differance involves the solubility of aragonite versus calcite.

 

[Old Rocks]

The Warmers need to live up to their fears and stop posting their dire warnings on the Internet. They're using electricity which burns fossils fuels which causes the oceans to turn acidic and rise melting the ice caps in the process

No, no, no. Sacrifice is for the vile infidels. The pure and holy crusaders for Gaea need not suffer the deprivations visited upon the peasantry.

YOU will be punished for the sin of not being impoverished and groveling at the feet of an elite ruling caste.

YOU will be returned to starvation and cold, with no transportation save that which the rulers deem necessary to get you to the mines or fields that you are to labor in.

They will enjoy all the benefits of current technology. Of course, advancement will stop as they have never created anything, nor ever will.

Ah, the flap yap of the two digit IQ club never ceases

 

[Uncensored2008]

Ah, the flap yap of the two digit IQ club never ceases

Have you finished your morning prayers to Algore?

You cultists crack me up. You honestly want to return 99% of humanity to the misery of the dark ages.

You are anti-Science and anti-technology, marching back to a primitive and brutal existence.

 

[westwall]

Unprecedented, man-made trends in ocean's acidity

Today's levels of aragonite saturation in these locations have already dropped five times below the pre-industrial range of natural variability. For example, if the yearly cycle in aragonite saturation varied between 4.7 and 4.8, it varies now between 4.2 and 4.3, which – based on another recent study – may translate into a decrease in overall calcification rates of corals and other aragonite shell-forming organisms by 15%. Given the continued human use of fossil fuels, the saturation levels will drop further, potentially reducing calcification rates of some marine organisms by more than 40% of their pre-industrial values within the next 90 years.

"Any significant drop below the minimum level of aragonite to which the organisms have been exposed to for thousands of years and have successfully adapted will very likely stress them and their associated ecosystems," says lead author Postdoctoral Fellow Tobias Friedrich.




IMAGE: The upper panels shows simulated surface aragonite saturation for the years 1800, 2012 and 2100, respectively. White dots indicate present-day main coral reef locations. The lower panels shows atmospheric CO2...


Click here for more information.



"In some regions, the man-made rate of change in ocean acidity since the Industrial Revolution is hundred times greater than the natural rate of change between the Last Glacial Maximum and pre-industrial times," emphasizes Friedrich. "When Earth started to warm 17,000 years ago, terminating the last glacial period, atmospheric CO2 levels rose from 190 parts per million (ppm) to 280 ppm over 6,000 years. Marine ecosystems had ample time to adjust. Now, for a similar rise in CO2 concentration to the present level of 392 ppm, the adjustment time is reduced to only 100 – 200 years."

Modelling taking the place of real world observation. These fools, and the idiots like you that believe them, couldn't do real scientific research if their very lives depended on it.

They make the claim at the end of the little missive that their models compare favourably with observations but give no example of that. I am amazed that this is the level to which science has fallen in that field. I too can make models. And I can make those models say ANYTHING I wish them to. But it still wouldn't be any more scientific than this crap.





The team of climate modelers, marine conservationists, ocean chemists, biologists and ecologists, led by Tobias Friedrich and Axel Timmermann at the International Pacific Research Center, University of Hawaii at Manoa, came to their conclusions by using Earth system models that simulate climate and ocean conditions 21,000 years back in time, to the Last Glacial Maximum, and forward in time to the end of the 21st century. They studied in their models changes in the saturation level of aragonite (a form of calcium carbonate) typically used to measure of ocean acidification. As acidity of seawater rises, the saturation level of aragonite drops. Their models captured well the current observed seasonal and annual variations in this quantity in several key coral reef regions.

 

[westwall]

Ol' Bent does not seem to understand the differance between calcite and aragonite. Nor the relationship between a minor shift in PH, and the ability of certain food chain base organism capability of creating a protective shell.

Outreach

And you do? Now I've heard everything! The two have the exact same chemical composition (CaCO3) and are polymorphous to each other. The only real difference between them is in their crystalline structure. Calcite being trigonal and aragonite being orthorombic. Oh yeah calcite can also be flourescent whereas aragonite isn't.

God, as a geologist you are one dumb fuck. The very major differance involves the solubility of aragonite versus calcite.

Yes, and that difference is fairly minor and more to the point carbonates are more soluable at LOWER temperatures than at higher ones.


"Counter to the typical increase of mineral solubility with increasing temperature observed for most minerals, many carbonate minerals are more soluble in cold water. For example, the Ksp for calcite at 0 and at 50 is 10-8.02 and 10-8.63, respectively (Garrels and Christ, 1965). These values represent about a four-fold difference in calcite solubility caused by temperature alone. A thorough discussion of the thermodynamic reactions of carbonate minerals solubilities is beyond the scope of this article. A simplified explanation for carbonate minerals being more soluble in cold water is that the dissolution reaction for carbonate minerals is exothermic, which results in higher temperatures favoring the solid phase over dissolved ions. A more detailed discussion for this unusual behavior can be found in Langmuir (1997).

In addition to an increase in solubility products with decreasing temperature, carbon dioxide is more soluble at lower temperatures, further favoring carbonate mineral dissolution in cooler environments. More carbonic acid is present in cold water at a given partial pressure of carbon dioxide (P ) and carbonic acid concentration is the controlling factor for the solubility of carbonate minerals under natural conditions. Carbon dioxide is obtained from the air or from decomposition of organic matter that releases carbon dioxide which reacts with water to form carbonic acid. These factors combine to form the calcite compensation depth (about 4,500 m) below which calcite dissolves."


Carbonate Chemistry

 

[wirebender]

Aragonite is more soluble than calscite, and the affects of minor shifts toward the acidit affect the ability of single celled animals that create their shells out of it to survive. Many larger animals use aragonite in their larveal stage, as we saw with the oyster dieoffs.

Again rocks what was the atmospheric CO2 concentration like during the time in which modern oysters evolved? That should tell even an idiot like you what they are capable of tolerating.

Present increasing acidity of the oceans are having an affect over the whole food chain.

What do you suppose the ph of the ocean was at the time most of the modern multicellular, invertebrate life in the oceans evolved? What might the ocean's ph have been with atmospheric CO2 above 3000 ppm?

 

[code1211]

At the present 395 ppm of CO2, what are we already committed to in terms of ice melt, disregarding feedback effects? According to the paleo-record, an increase of about 25 meters in sea level.

Oh my!

Is there any way to appease the gods? If we were to give our virgin daughters to the Shamans, Michael Mann, Pope Algore, Phil Jones, etc.? Could they intervene with Gaea on behalf of our carbon sins, so she won't destroy the world due to our wickedness?

Will you, the good and faithful, be raptured before Gaea unleashes her wrath and destroys the world?

Trust me on this one.

You can solve the problem by giving your virgin daughters to me.

 

[bobgnote]

What do you suppose the ph of the ocean was at the time most of the modern multicellular, invertebrate life in the oceans evolved? What might the ocean's ph have been with atmospheric CO2 above 3000 ppm?

Queen of all bitches with wieners, do you suppose after all the conditioning we have experienced, since any acid-resistant forms evolved, we are somehow not going to suffer a Mass Extinction? Do you think hermaphrodites get to remain oblivious, to MEE6?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Trust me on this one.

You can solve the problem by giving your virgin daughters to me.

You must be Algore, then...

 

[bobgnote]

Unprecedented, man-made trends in ocean's acidity

Today's levels of aragonite saturation in these locations have already dropped five times below the pre-industrial range of natural variability. For example, if the yearly cycle in aragonite saturation varied between 4.7 and 4.8, it varies now between 4.2 and 4.3, which – based on another recent study – may translate into a decrease in overall calcification rates of corals and other aragonite shell-forming organisms by 15%. Given the continued human use of fossil fuels, the saturation levels will drop further, potentially reducing calcification rates of some marine organisms by more than 40% of their pre-industrial values within the next 90 years.

"Any significant drop below the minimum level of aragonite to which the organisms have been exposed to for thousands of years and have successfully adapted will very likely stress them and their associated ecosystems," says lead author Postdoctoral Fellow Tobias Friedrich.

"In some regions, the man-made rate of change in ocean acidity since the Industrial Revolution is hundred times greater than the natural rate of change between the Last Glacial Maximum and pre-industrial times," emphasizes Friedrich. "When Earth started to warm 17,000 years ago, terminating the last glacial period, atmospheric CO2 levels rose from 190 parts per million (ppm) to 280 ppm over 6,000 years. Marine ecosystems had ample time to adjust. Now, for a similar rise in CO2 concentration to the present level of 392 ppm, the adjustment time is reduced to only 100 – 200 years."

Modelling taking the place of real world observation. These fools, and the idiots like you that believe them, couldn't do real scientific research if their very lives depended on it.

They make the claim at the end of the little missive that their models compare favourably with observations but give no example of that. I am amazed that this is the level to which science has fallen in that field. I too can make models. And I can make those models say ANYTHING I wish them to. But it still wouldn't be any more scientific than this crap.

The team of climate modelers, marine conservationists, ocean chemists, biologists and ecologists, led by Tobias Friedrich and Axel Timmermann at the International Pacific Research Center, University of Hawaii at Manoa, came to their conclusions by using Earth system models that simulate climate and ocean conditions 21,000 years back in time, to the Last Glacial Maximum, and forward in time to the end of the 21st century. They studied in their models changes in the saturation level of aragonite (a form of calcium carbonate) typically used to measure of ocean acidification. As acidity of seawater rises, the saturation level of aragonite drops. Their models captured well the current observed seasonal and annual variations in this quantity in several key coral reef regions.

Gee, Wallybitch, models are how to digest a lot of statistics. Given your graph-deprived mind, don't you like models, with graphs?

Since you are lately so bitchin,' you managed to paste the carbonic acid exchange basics, about carbonate. Does that mean you see some kind of damage, happening, as equilibria start to affect habitats?

In the real world, species are becoming extinct, and a lot of die-offs are in the news. You might want to migrate, from queer porn sites, to some kind of news searches.

 

[westwall]

Unprecedented, man-made trends in ocean's acidity

Today's levels of aragonite saturation in these locations have already dropped five times below the pre-industrial range of natural variability. For example, if the yearly cycle in aragonite saturation varied between 4.7 and 4.8, it varies now between 4.2 and 4.3, which – based on another recent study – may translate into a decrease in overall calcification rates of corals and other aragonite shell-forming organisms by 15%. Given the continued human use of fossil fuels, the saturation levels will drop further, potentially reducing calcification rates of some marine organisms by more than 40% of their pre-industrial values within the next 90 years.

"Any significant drop below the minimum level of aragonite to which the organisms have been exposed to for thousands of years and have successfully adapted will very likely stress them and their associated ecosystems," says lead author Postdoctoral Fellow Tobias Friedrich.

"In some regions, the man-made rate of change in ocean acidity since the Industrial Revolution is hundred times greater than the natural rate of change between the Last Glacial Maximum and pre-industrial times," emphasizes Friedrich. "When Earth started to warm 17,000 years ago, terminating the last glacial period, atmospheric CO2 levels rose from 190 parts per million (ppm) to 280 ppm over 6,000 years. Marine ecosystems had ample time to adjust. Now, for a similar rise in CO2 concentration to the present level of 392 ppm, the adjustment time is reduced to only 100 – 200 years."

Modelling taking the place of real world observation. These fools, and the idiots like you that believe them, couldn't do real scientific research if their very lives depended on it.

They make the claim at the end of the little missive that their models compare favourably with observations but give no example of that. I am amazed that this is the level to which science has fallen in that field. I too can make models. And I can make those models say ANYTHING I wish them to. But it still wouldn't be any more scientific than this crap.

The team of climate modelers, marine conservationists, ocean chemists, biologists and ecologists, led by Tobias Friedrich and Axel Timmermann at the International Pacific Research Center, University of Hawaii at Manoa, came to their conclusions by using Earth system models that simulate climate and ocean conditions 21,000 years back in time, to the Last Glacial Maximum, and forward in time to the end of the 21st century. They studied in their models changes in the saturation level of aragonite (a form of calcium carbonate) typically used to measure of ocean acidification. As acidity of seawater rises, the saturation level of aragonite drops. Their models captured well the current observed seasonal and annual variations in this quantity in several key coral reef regions.

Gee, Wallybitch, models are how to digest a lot of statistics. Given your graph-deprived mind, don't you like models, with graphs?

Since you are lately so bitchin,' you managed to paste the carbonic acid exchange basics, about carbonate. Does that mean you see some kind of damage, happening, as equilibria start to affect habitats?

In the real world, species are becoming extinct, and a lot of die-offs are in the news. You might want to migrate, from queer porn sites, to some kind of news searches.

You preach to me about the real world when you live in the fantasy land of computer models. That's rich junior, rich. So when do you graduate to middle school?

 

[code1211]

Trust me on this one.

You can solve the problem by giving your virgin daughters to me.

You must be Algore, then...

No, I'm not. But you can still trust me.

 

[wirebender]

Queen of all bitches with wieners, do you suppose after all the conditioning we have experienced, since any acid-resistant forms evolved, we are somehow not going to suffer a Mass Extinction? Do you think hermaphrodites get to remain oblivious, to MEE6?

Mass extinction due to CO2? Geez bob, do you really believe that there will be mass extinctions because of CO2? All you have to do is look back in history to see that it simply isn't going to happen.

By the way bob, you seem to have a hard time restraining yourself from mentioning the genitalia of the male posters you respond to. XXXXXX-Meister

 

[Douger]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE_33OAUUq4&feature=related]Goin' Down - Stevie Ray Vaughan &Jeff Beck - YouTube[/ame]

 

[bobgnote]

Queen of all bitches with wieners, do you suppose after all the conditioning we have experienced, since any acid-resistant forms evolved, we are somehow not going to suffer a Mass Extinction? Do you think hermaphrodites get to remain oblivious, to MEE6?

Mass extinction due to CO2? Geez bob, do you really believe that there will be mass extinctions because of CO2? All you have to do is look back in history to see that it simply isn't going to happen.

Watch the vid and do your own math, Wienerbitch. Mass extinction went down, before, it will go down, again, and it's going down, NOW, all the time, while we watch, and you bitch out. Ever ride in a helicopter, Wienerbitch? What do you suppose happens to those, all the time?

The population is up, too high, for the declining human and animal habitat to support. Like a helicopter with the tail rotor compromised, a forced landing is necessary, and something fatal is likely to happen. Your usual method of flapping won't save you, from a chopper-type crash or from a dose of HIV, moving to full-blown AIDS, which are like the problems, posed by global warming. We've been over why you are into AIDS-type dilemmas.

This helicopter-analogy is fresh, and it fits our current situation, as if some chopper pilot is up, with his ass on fire, and he is in denial, about what will happen, when that rotor fails.

Why don't you go out and find us a nice graph, at 4 am in the morning, since you keep posting crap, at that time?