How Far to the Left is Too Far?

[Dad2three]

How far is too far?
1. When you want to nationalize the private sector
2. When you want to raise the minimum wage above the ability of businesses to remain profitable. A minimum age is fine, but don't kill your economy.
3. When you want to give every man, woman and child welfare. Without a plan to feed, construct or maintain the rest of society.
4. When you want to ban corporations

I could list the opposite for how far right is too far?(Tea party) But that isn't the topic. Both are bad.

Socialism does not mean what you think it does. It is not Soviet communism, it is a methodology to equitably share resources in society.






(Re-)Introducing: The American School of Economics


When the United States became independent from Britain it also rebelled against the British System of economics, characterized by Adam Smith, in favor of the American School based on protectionism and infrastructure and prospered under this system for almost 200 years to become the wealthiest nation in the world. Unrestrained free trade resurfaced in the early 1900s culminating in the Great Depression and again in the 1970s culminating in the current Economic Meltdown.



American School of Economics

Closely related to mercantilism, it can be seen as contrary to classical economics. It consisted of these three core policies:

protecting industry through selective high tariffs (especially 1861–1932) and through subsidies (especially 1932–70)

government investments in infrastructure creating targeted internal improvements (especially in transportation)

a national bank with policies that promote the growth of productive enterprises rather than speculation


Frank Bourgin's 1989 study of the Constitutional Convention shows that direct government involvement in the economy was intended by the Founders

 

[Peach]

Hitler was a Nationalist SOCIALIST. Jesus was not politically affiliated, but if was I doubt he would endorse a pro-abortion liberal. Thank's for your opinion though.

National socialist, the flip side of Marxism. And Jesus taught giving to the poor also. No way to pin a label on Christ.

Why the hell are you going around correcting everyone?? Oh wait.. I meant correcting conservatives.. God forbid you show some type of equity in your obsessive compulsive disorder.

Pinning a label on Jesus to Peach is stating he wouldn't endorse child slaughter.. Unreal. Of course he wouldn't..

No, your reading comprehension isn't the best Sir. Placing political labels on Christ is impossible. Have a friend read the 'big words' for you.

 

[Dad2three]

How did this even become a debate? I'd really like to know who the first person was to try to argue that Hitler was left-wing.

Hippies were left-wing. Can we all agree to that? Peace and love flower children are the leftest of left-wing, agreed? Adolf Hitler was the extreme opposite of inclusive, free-love, anti-war, peaceful hippie flower children, agreed?

If peacenik hippie flower children are the extreme left-wing and Hitler is the extreme opposite of hippie flower children, then Hitler is the extreme right-wing. That's how it works.

Love or hate has nothing to do with "right" or "left" wing.

Hitler was a socialist, that's why he was left wing.

Hitler a socialist? lol

"The Night of the Long Knives, sometimes called Operation Hummingbird or, in Germany, the Röhm-Putsch, was a purge that took place in Nazi Germany from June 30 to July 2, 1934, when the Nazi regime carried out a series of political murders. Leading figures of the left-wing Strasserist faction of the Nazi Party, along with its figurehead, Gregor Strasser, were murdered"



Socialism or Fascism

Which ideology place race and nationalism above CLASS or internationalism?

Socialism or Fascism

Which ideology advocates Social Darwinism and despites Social Equality?

Socialism or Fascism


If Hitler was a leftist, Why did he hate Marxism or Egalitarianism so bad?

In Nazi Germany, WHO controlled the mean of production? Private Capitalists or Workers/Unions?



"The 96-member Social Democratic Party of Germany was Hitler's main opposition in the Reichstag, and the only political party that attempted to halt the laws that established him as dictator and brought down the Weimar Republic. In fact, all of the ideological predecessors of today's conservative and (classically) liberal parties voted unanimously for the law, while the SPD voted unanimously against despite the presence of SA 'guards' in the building"

 

[Peach]

Yes, I have. So give me an example, name a plank of the communist manifesto that the Democratic party or Obama just flat out oppose. That should be easy if they aren't Marxists, right? Disagree with the Communist Manifesto? Once? That bar is a line painted on the floor.

Well, first of all there is the matter of the destruction of the state into a classless society where everyone exists in harmony.

You're not familiar with the Democrat's wealth redistribution schemes, are you?

I don't have the manifesto with me (I'm on a mobile device) but their are a whole bunch of other differences, such as the views of the proletariat uprising and the upper class.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

LOL, that's a great example of exactly what the Democrats ... do ... with their endless anti-capitalist, anti-wealth rhetoric.

The Manifesto itself is hogwash; the state never "withered away". One example of the outdated, useless theory:

As the bourgeoisie developed, so did the proletariat, and it is the proletariat who will eventually destroy the bourgeoisie. The proletarians live only as long as they can find work, and they can find work only as long as their labor increases capital.

Incorrect, the proletariat became the bourgeoisie, in the the US, and most other Western nations. Let Marx & Engels go the way of history, with their failed "economic treatise".

 

[Dad2three]

The funny thing is that the far left can not understand that there really is not that much difference between them and their far right counter parts.

Just like the Nazi supporters of the 40's the current far left member can not see the evil within their own ranks and choose to ignore and divert. They like to pretend that there is nothing bad about what they are supporting or can not admit that they are wrong. They would much rather see the world burn than admit they were wrong about anything.

Liberals don't love Obama, liberals are angry at Obama, but we also don't like conservatives blaming everything on Obama when they are obstructing congress and when there is no reason to believe Republican candidates would act any better than Obama. Obama is a conservative, just not nearly as conservative as the Republicans have become in recent years.

 

[Dad2three]

Hitler was for personal freedom and liberty? Really?

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Hitler hated fags and darkies almost as much as the New Right does.

If you believe Hitler is to the left of you, you are too far right.

If you think Hitler is to the right of you, you are too far left.

Hitler and socialism



An entirely US-centric argument, spurred on by certain batty ideologues and infamous websites, claims that Adolf Hitler was not the far-right, anti-communist nationalist that everyone else remembers him to be, but rather an egalitarian socialist. Much like the Discovery Institute and their assault on the theory of evolution, this attempts to evoke the association fallacy on anyone who practices left-wing politics, and by that standard, anyone who slightly leans to the left is an adherent of fascism. Eeek!



The fact that we need to even write this should tell you something about these people, but why not take a hack at it?

For this argument to be even close to being solvent (fans of Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn, we're looking at you), good chunks of history need to be thrown out the window:



"That the 96-member Social Democratic Party of Germany was Hitler's main opposition in the Reichstag, and the only political party that attempted to halt the laws that established him as dictator and brought down the Weimar Republic. In fact, all of the ideological predecessors of today's conservative and (classically) liberal parties voted unanimously for the law, while the SPD voted unanimously against despite the presence of SA 'guards' in the building.


That the first political groups targeted during the Nazi ascendancy were pacifists, trade unions and communists;[ and


That the Strasserites, the only strand of Nazism that could be referred to as left-wing (ie. pro-working class in nature), were all killed off (with a handful of conservative dissidents) in what we all know as the Night of the Long Knives.




Not only did Hitler make clear he wanted to eradicate the Bolsheviks and any elements of Communism on the planet, every type of socialist on earth, from the Soviets to the British Labour Party to George Orwell, saw the Nazis as bad news

 

[HenryBHough]

Using the techniques of historical Fascism to bring about Socialism suggests that today's American Liberals might actually have read a little more history than commonly suspected.

Tools is tools.

 

[itfitzme]

Well, first of all there is the matter of the destruction of the state into a classless society where everyone exists in harmony.

You're not familiar with the Democrat's wealth redistribution schemes, are you?

I don't have the manifesto with me (I'm on a mobile device) but their are a whole bunch of other differences, such as the views of the proletariat uprising and the upper class.





Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

LOL, that's a great example of exactly what the Democrats ... do ... with their endless anti-capitalist, anti-wealth rhetoric.

I am a democrat, FYI. And technically, any form of taxation is "wealth distribution." And there is a large difference between that and the elimination of the state and the capitalist system.

Also, democrats are capitalists.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

It is what the economy does, contantly distributing and redistributing wealth as it distributes scares resourses. Sometimes it does efficiently, often it doesn't. The very premise of the stock market and financial. markets is to redistributw wealth to where there is the potential for greater growth

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Jesus is the farthest left that the spectrum goes, Hitler is on the right.

It's that simple.

You show ignorance with your statement. Fascism is on the Left.Hitler was a Lefty as much as Stalin was. Opposite poles on the same side of a coin.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

The funny thing is that the far left can not understand that there really is not that much difference between them and their far right counter parts.

Just like the Nazi supporters of the 40's the current far left member can not see the evil within their own ranks and choose to ignore and divert. They like to pretend that there is nothing bad about what they are supporting or can not admit that they are wrong. They would much rather see the world burn than admit they were wrong about anything.

Liberals don't love Obama, liberals are angry at Obama, but we also don't like conservatives blaming everything on Obama when they are obstructing congress and when there is no reason to believe Republican candidates would act any better than Obama. Obama is a conservative, just not nearly as conservative as the Republicans have become in recent years.

Oh yea, forcing people to buy something or else is real conservative..

 

[AvgGuyIA]

The left doesn't care about factual history of fascism. The left wants government to run everything and hate the Jews like the fascists did, but will still claim Nazis were right wing. Nazi......National Socialist. Deal with it. Hopefully, education will wake you up.

True. Nazis hated jews and today's democrats hate Israel. Just like they hate black people.

 

[PeoplePower]

The funny thing is that the far left can not understand that there really is not that much difference between them and their far right counter parts.



Just like the Nazi supporters of the 40's the current far left member can not see the evil within their own ranks and choose to ignore and divert. They like to pretend that there is nothing bad about what they are supporting or can not admit that they are wrong. They would much rather see the world burn than admit they were wrong about anything.

Liberals don't love Obama, liberals are angry at Obama, but we also don't like conservatives blaming everything on Obama when they are obstructing congress and when there is no reason to believe Republican candidates would act any better than Obama. Obama is a conservative, just not nearly as conservative as the Republicans have become in recent years.

Oh yea, forcing people to buy something or else is real conservative..

Not like Bob Dole and Newt Gingrich supported the ACA or anything. Oh wait...


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[KNB]

Conservatives force society to buy the twisted lie that more guns make everyone safer.

Conservatives also forced America to buy an endless war of terror against terrorists trained by American Conservatives.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

How Far to the Left is Too Far?

The same distance to the right.

 

[Bfgrn]

Jesus is the farthest left that the spectrum goes, Hitler is on the right.

It's that simple.

You show ignorance with your statement. Fascism is on the Left.Hitler was a Lefty as much as Stalin was. Opposite poles on the same side of a coin.

THIS Hitler?

"Today Christians stand at the head of our country. I pledge that I will never tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity... We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit.... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past few years."

Adolf Hitler
The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Jesus is the farthest left that the spectrum goes, Hitler is on the right.

It's that simple.

Hitler was a Nationalist SOCIALIST.

"B-b-b-b-but it says socialist!"



It always amuses me when idiots think the word "socialist" in Nazi means Hitler was a left winger.

It does not get more historically ignorant than that.

Government control over people is Left wing ideology that is shared by both communists and fascists (Nazis) alike. The farthest right wing ideology is anarchy (total freedom from government control). Do you honestly think Hitler's 1000 Year Reich would have led to total freedom from government control? Hitler and Stalin were opposities, but that was only how the people would be controlled. Both are still left-wing ideology. So suck it up that so-called democrat socialist share the same belief of controlling people.

Get it through your head that liberals want to tell people what to do (and with Obamacare, their dream of telling people what to buy has been fulfilled) too.

 

[Sarah G]

Move Left until it feels good again. People used to feel better about their political beliefs, even Conservatives. I believe the onset of Rush and his followers changed all that.

The Politics of Hate!!

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Why, here come some lefties now!

"Vote Obama!"

You're proving yourself to be a fool. Marxist and Nazis are flip sides of the same coin. Nobody claims they agree in ideology, just that they are left wing. What are you so worried about? Is it your precious socialism is being smeared?

 

[occupied]

Hitler was a Nationalist SOCIALIST.

"B-b-b-b-but it says socialist!"



It always amuses me when idiots think the word "socialist" in Nazi means Hitler was a left winger.

It does not get more historically ignorant than that.

Government control over people is Left wing ideology that is shared by both communists and fascists (Nazis) alike. The farthest right wing ideology is anarchy (total freedom from government control). Do you honestly think Hitler's 1000 Year Reich would have led to total freedom from government control? Hitler and Stalin were opposities, but that was only how the people would be controlled. Both are still left-wing ideology. So suck it up that so-called democrat socialist share the same belief of controlling people.

Get it through your head that liberals want to tell people what to do (and with Obamacare, their dream of telling people what to buy has been fulfilled) too.

No reputable political scientist/student of history believes this nor does it match the traditional definitions/theories in place for at least 150 years. Just because a bunch of shitty libertarians made up some dangerously retarded theory that the right is incapable of tyranny does not make it so. As soon as any right winger gets even a little bit of political power they turn authoritarian instantly and do not even feel like horrible liars.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

How did this even become a debate? I'd really like to know who the first person was to try to argue that Hitler was left-wing.

Hippies were left-wing. Can we all agree to that? Peace and love flower children are the leftest of left-wing, agreed? Adolf Hitler was the extreme opposite of inclusive, free-love, anti-war, peaceful hippie flower children, agreed?

If peacenik hippie flower children are the extreme left-wing and Hitler is the extreme opposite of hippie flower children, then Hitler is the extreme right-wing. That's how it works.

Until one of you can prove which one, Stalin or Hitler, was for freedom and liberty, you lose the argument.