How many here believe Jesus rose from the dead after his crucifixion

[HaShev]

Ummm you are the one who listed not one single source with your ad hominem response.
Donct you dare list gospels because your own fictional character said self testimony is false evidence.
There is no historical proof of Jesus, only the MANY figures used for small portions of his image and stories.
Name one historian and what he says.

Blah blah blah the same old bullshit idiots have been claiming for ages as if Josephus never mentioned Jesus, nor the Romans.

I dont have time for people who are determined to be stupid, so have fun blathering your bullshit, I am not going to play, bubba.

We had this discussion already remember:
JimBowie1958, post: 16667390
HaShev, post: 16660493
But we might not have discussed why your Josephus argument is failed.
1)you can't post one Josephus source yet call me stupid when I have given you the sources in other discussions.
You wouldnct need name calling if you were right.
2) you have no ability to see earlier copies of Josephus make no mention of Jesus at all. You have no access to script to know the difference between later forged copies and earlier ones.
3)Your mistake due to not researching Josephus yourself and taking every other idiots word for the claims of the books of Josephus
Josephus accounts of Jesus are proven placed in at a later date probably by Eusebius who was known as the great liar who often forged books. I say this because early copies have no mention of Jesus and it's not until the time of Constantine and Eusebius thst it magically appears out of context as if placed in and forced in.
Have some common sense Josephus being a Jew writing about a Jewish Rabbi to a Jewish audience does not use the non Hebrew name Jesus- only a LATER Christian would use the IESUS NAME. also Josephus being Jewish not Christian nor follower would ever call him "the christ".
Josephus mentions the many figures used for the Jesus image (as does the book of acts mention the other christs) but actually never mentions Jesus at all which is odd being I did a lineage search on Josephus and I was the only one to connect the dots that he was related distant wise to KING Jannaeus lineage who's wife Salome (friend /follower) of Yeshu son of Mary of 100bc was supposed to be related to Yeshu. ODD since Josephus doesn't even mention Yeshu who the RCC favors in it's trinity of christs used to make the Jesus character.

 

[Eaglewings]

I have doubts he died on the cross

Really? Why?

Most take days on the cross to die

Jesus was up their four hours

Medicine were use on him when laying him in the crypt/cave

Too many stories of him beyond the middle east after his death.

They broke the legs of Jesus, which made it impossible to support his body .. Which would kill someone much quicker, but much more painful.

I am sorry, I may be wrong about His legs.. but here is an explanation

There is evidence from Scripture that Jesus experienced hypovolemic shock as a result of being flogged. As Jesus carried His own cross to Golgotha (John 19:17), He collapsed, and a man named Simon was forced to either carry the cross or help Jesus carry the cross the rest of way to the hill (Matthew 27:32–33; Mark 15:21–22; Luke 23:26). This collapse indicates Jesus had low blood pressure. Another indicator that Jesus suffered from hypovolemic shock was that He declared He was thirsty as He hung on the cross (John 19:28), indicating His body’s desire to replenish fluids.

Is that supposed to say "hypoglycemic"?

Hypovolemic shock is an emergency condition in which severe blood or fluid loss makes the heart unable to pump enough blood to the body. This type of shock can cause many organs to stop working.

 

[Eaglewings]

I have doubts he died on the cross

Really? Why?

Most take days on the cross to die

Jesus was up their four hours

Medicine were use on him when laying him in the crypt/cave

Too many stories of him beyond the middle east after his death.

They broke the legs of Jesus, which made it impossible to support his body .. Which would kill someone much quicker, but much more painful.

No

John 19:33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.

I am not sure were I heard they broke His legs..but I was wrong. I am actually watching the movie Risen which says that they pierced His side..

 

[Marion Morrison]

I have doubts he died on the cross

Really? Why?

Most take days on the cross to die

Jesus was up their four hours

Medicine were use on him when laying him in the crypt/cave

Too many stories of him beyond the middle east after his death.

They broke the legs of Jesus, which made it impossible to support his body .. Which would kill someone much quicker, but much more painful.

Where do you get this info?

But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: 34But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I believe he rose from a coma induced state that they assumed was death because they did not have the medical knowledge to understand the condition.

 

[Eaglewings]

I have doubts he died on the cross

Really? Why?

Most take days on the cross to die

Jesus was up their four hours

Medicine were use on him when laying him in the crypt/cave

Too many stories of him beyond the middle east after his death.

They broke the legs of Jesus, which made it impossible to support his body .. Which would kill someone much quicker, but much more painful.

Where do you get this info?

But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: 34But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35

I was wrong...I have never really questioned why He died in 4 hours..

 

[Pogo]

I have doubts he died on the cross

Really? Why?

Most take days on the cross to die

Jesus was up their four hours

Medicine were use on him when laying him in the crypt/cave

Too many stories of him beyond the middle east after his death.

They broke the legs of Jesus, which made it impossible to support his body .. Which would kill someone much quicker, but much more painful.

No

John 19:33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.

I am not sure were I heard they broke His legs..but I was wrong. I am actually watching the movie Risen which says that they pierced His side..

I uh, wouldn't go by a movie to determine what's right or wrong about events of two thousand years ago. Bad enough we have these accounts written many years on and then edited at Nicea -- giving the same story to a scriptwriter, all bets are off.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Really? Why?

Most take days on the cross to die

Jesus was up their four hours

Medicine were use on him when laying him in the crypt/cave

Too many stories of him beyond the middle east after his death.

They broke the legs of Jesus, which made it impossible to support his body .. Which would kill someone much quicker, but much more painful.

No

John 19:33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.

I am not sure were I heard they broke His legs..but I was wrong. I am actually watching the movie Risen which says that they pierced His side..

I uh, wouldn't go by a movie to determine what's right or wrong about events of two thousand years ago. Bad enough we have these accounts written many years on and then edited at Nicea -- giving the same story to a scriptwriter, all bets are off.

Is that you, Margot?

 

[skye]

I don't care if HE arose or not.

I still believe in HIM.

 

[Eaglewings]

Really? Why?

Most take days on the cross to die

Jesus was up their four hours

Medicine were use on him when laying him in the crypt/cave

Too many stories of him beyond the middle east after his death.

They broke the legs of Jesus, which made it impossible to support his body .. Which would kill someone much quicker, but much more painful.

No

John 19:33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.

I am not sure were I heard they broke His legs..but I was wrong. I am actually watching the movie Risen which says that they pierced His side..

I uh, wouldn't go by a movie to determine what's right or wrong about events of two thousand years ago. Bad enough we have these accounts written many years on and then edited at Nicea -- giving the same story to a scriptwriter, all bets are off.

It is actually a really good movie ..




Risen (2016) - IMDb

 

[aris2chat]

I have doubts he died on the cross

Really? Why?

Most take days on the cross to die

Jesus was up their four hours

Medicine were use on him when laying him in the crypt/cave

Too many stories of him beyond the middle east after his death.

Well, if He was not dead, He was after the Roman soldier speared Him through the side into the heart, to make sure He was dead, as they had orders to break the thighs so that the men crucified would die before start of Passover which began at Sundown.

The Romans had to make sure or they would be guilty of disobeying their orders, which carried very harsh punishments for the Roman soldiers.

Not necessarily.........

I know, respiratory acidosis and pericardial effusion, but the pain and loss of blood from the beating could have caused him to faint from the pain and his breathing have been so slow that he would appear to be dead. The fluid can build up before death.

I prefer to seek plausible medical reasons for him to walk out three days later.

I had an episode a few months ago where I had a shut down of my brain because of an overload of pain.
body tries to protect itself. Granted, I was not hanging on a cross.

The raising from the dead, sorry, that is the stuff of stories

His apostles touching his wounds, he was not spirit, he was a physical being.

I'm not one to believe in zombie except in games and fantasy. The body can look dead without actually being dead.

People believe he died because of their faith. Jesus was supposed to die for them. If he lived then they would feel cheated.

 

[Pogo]

Most take days on the cross to die

Jesus was up their four hours

Medicine were use on him when laying him in the crypt/cave

Too many stories of him beyond the middle east after his death.

They broke the legs of Jesus, which made it impossible to support his body .. Which would kill someone much quicker, but much more painful.

No

John 19:33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.

I am not sure were I heard they broke His legs..but I was wrong. I am actually watching the movie Risen which says that they pierced His side..

I uh, wouldn't go by a movie to determine what's right or wrong about events of two thousand years ago. Bad enough we have these accounts written many years on and then edited at Nicea -- giving the same story to a scriptwriter, all bets are off.

It is actually a really good movie ..




Risen (2016) - IMDb

Thanks, I'll pass. Movies are for entertainment; they cannot be counted on for accurate historical depiction.

The key phrase here is "artistic license".

 

[HaShev]

Amazing how many people become Dr's in discussion, yet never discuss how Jesus can sweat blood when it's only a trait of
WOMEN with TURNER'S SYNDROME.
Being that the church claimed a relic
the skull of Jesus (catheri relic labeled "Caput LVIII" ), only later to be realized a skull of a woman=Jesus has to be a woman who because of Turners syndrom appears like a man. Otherwise you wanna be Dr's need to admit the church is the father of all lies from stories to fake relics trying to help sell the story.

 

[Votto]

I have doubts he died on the cross

Really? Why?

Most take days on the cross to die

Jesus was up their four hours

Medicine were use on him when laying him in the crypt/cave

Too many stories of him beyond the middle east after his death.

So when they stuck Jesus in the side with a spear and fluid came out of his side that obviously showed he was dead means nothing to you?

 

[aris2chat]

Of course. Even so, romans like the spectacle to last and it was really to short a time.
Few were allowed to take down loved ones and bury them, regardless of so call religious practices.

The Passover was not a 'so-called religious practice' it was THE religious event in that corner of the Mediteranean.

And the Romans had the Jews as allies for a long time until Herod passed away and large areas of it were left to Roman rule, which most Jews did not like.

Bad reports from the Jewish reps in Rome was a good way to get a governors career ended early, so the guvs liked to keep the Jews happy as best they could.

So when the Jews told them each year to not leave people hanging on crosses during Passover, the Romans took it seriously.

The two thieve crucified with him were not taken down

 

[aris2chat]

Really? Why?

Most take days on the cross to die

Jesus was up their four hours

Medicine were use on him when laying him in the crypt/cave

Too many stories of him beyond the middle east after his death.

Are you familiar with the 'Passion'? I am not speaking of the movie, but of what they did to Christ before he was crucified.

By the time they put Him upon the cross, he was nearly dead. The spear and the cross were the final blows.

Of course. Even so, romans like the spectacle to last and it was really to short a time.

Few were allowed to take down loved ones and bury them, regardless of so call religious practices.

the items for Jesus burial were anti-inflammatory and anti-bacterial common used at the time for healing at that time

The Romans liked order and obedience above all else. The Jews had Pilot convinced that Jesus would foment insurrection. A quick death to dispell the messiah myth was exactly what they wanted. His removal was a knife in the Jewish temples ribs. They wanted him discredited and the Romans took that away from them.

Regardless. The OP asked if I believed Christ rose from the dead and I do. That is good enough for me.

Pilate is an AD era figure, there is only one historical Christ from the early AD era, that being Theudas by the Jordan died 45ad who's apostles were the martyrs.
But that Christ isn't the 6bc crucified Galilean in the time of King Herod [4bc] and Lysanias (35bc), also not the same as the Passover hanged Yeshu son of Mary the Harlot sentenced around 85bc.

>>It came to pass, while Fadus was procurator of Judea, that a certain charlatan, whose name was Theudas, persuaded a great part of the people to take their effects with them, and follow him to the river Jordan; for he told them he was a prophet, and that he would, by his own command, divide the river, and afford them an easy passage over it. Many were deluded by his words. However, Fadus did not permit them to make any advantage of his wild attempt, but sent a troop of horsemen out against them. After falling upon them unexpectedly, they slew many of them, and took many of them alive. They also took Theudas alive, cut off his head, and carried it to Jerusalem.<<

Not the same

 

[aris2chat]

also

>>"Men of Israel, be cautious in deciding what to do with these men. Some time ago, Theudas came forward, claiming to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him. But he was killed and his whole following was broken up and disappeared. After him came Judas the Galilean at the time of the census; he induced some people to revolt under his leadership, but he too perished and his whole following was scattered."<<

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I believe he rose from a coma induced state that they assumed was death because they did not have the medical knowledge to understand the condition.

And he was strong enough to move that stone and walk out on his own. And, had no benefit of any routine medical benefits of today.

Wow. Just bravo.

 

[Pogo]

Amazing how many people become Dr's in discussion, yet never discuss how Jesus can sweat blood when it's only a trait of
WOMEN with TURNER'S SYNDROME.
Being that the church claimed a relic
the skull of Jesus (catheri relic labeled "Caput LVIII" ), only later to be realized a skull of a woman=Jesus has to be a woman who because of Turners syndrom appears like a man. Otherwise you wanna be Dr's need to admit the church is the father of all lies from stories to fake relics trying to help sell the story.

Shades of Pope Joan!

 

[aris2chat]

I have doubts he died on the cross

Really? Why?

Most take days on the cross to die

Jesus was up their four hours

Medicine were use on him when laying him in the crypt/cave

Too many stories of him beyond the middle east after his death.

They broke the legs of Jesus, which made it impossible to support his body .. Which would kill someone much quicker, but much more painful.

I am sorry, I may be wrong about His legs.. but here is an explanation

There is evidence from Scripture that Jesus experienced hypovolemic shock as a result of being flogged. As Jesus carried His own cross to Golgotha (John 19:17), He collapsed, and a man named Simon was forced to either carry the cross or help Jesus carry the cross the rest of way to the hill (Matthew 27:32–33; Mark 15:21–22; Luke 23:26). This collapse indicates Jesus had low blood pressure. Another indicator that Jesus suffered from hypovolemic shock was that He declared He was thirsty as He hung on the cross (John 19:28), indicating His body’s desire to replenish fluids.

legs were often broken, Jesus were not