How much is a poor persons life worth ?

[irosie91]

one of the most significant FIRE IN BUILDING factors is-----subsidized rent

How is that a factor?

lack of pride of ownership and lawsuit potential

 

[irosie91]

one of the most significant FIRE IN BUILDING factors is-----subsidized rent

Huh?

I live in the USA------low income housing projects are rife with crime

 

[Coyote]

My heart goes out to England - so many tragedies in such a short time. They printed an article on the missing - like with the concert attack in Manchester, so many young people and children.

 

[Coyote]

one of the most significant FIRE IN BUILDING factors is-----subsidized rent

How is that a factor?

lack of pride of ownership and lawsuit potential

I'm not sure I understand how that would have anything to do with the lack of working fire alarms and sprinklers and substandard cladding? I also heard that gas pipes in the stairwells were cited as problems.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Wow...that is pretty damning. The last I had heard is that they weren't sure which type of panels had been used....

And I wonder how many other high rises are outfitted with the same?

Local authorities have spent the last few days checking all of their property. Its a mixed picture. Ive seen a figure of 100k to fit sprinklers to Grenfell House.

But local government budgets have been cut by 40% due to tory austerity and so the penny pinching now has a body count.

On top of this there is an acute shortage of affordable housing in London due to tory and labour authorities selling off council housing and not replacing it. Some poor families in the area have been housed as far away as Birmingham because of it.

People have lost families and homes and will lose their jobs if they cant get settled locally. Meanwhile across the road there are private tower blocks bought as investments by foreigners that lie empty.

There is no way it would only cost 100k to install a sprinkler system in a building that size.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Wow...that is pretty damning. The last I had heard is that they weren't sure which type of panels had been used....

And I wonder how many other high rises are outfitted with the same?

Local authorities have spent the last few days checking all of their property. Its a mixed picture. Ive seen a figure of 100k to fit sprinklers to Grenfell House.

But local government budgets have been cut by 40% due to tory austerity and so the penny pinching now has a body count.

On top of this there is an acute shortage of affordable housing in London due to tory and labour authorities selling off council housing and not replacing it. Some poor families in the area have been housed as far away as Birmingham because of it.

People have lost families and homes and will lose their jobs if they cant get settled locally. Meanwhile across the road there are private tower blocks bought as investments by foreigners that lie empty.

There is no way it would only cost 100k to install a sprinkler system in a building that size.

Also when you see footage of the inferno as it took hold, I don't think a sprinkler system would have been able to combat it, it was too extreme a situation.

 

[Darkwind]

You Brits are a strange lot...

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Wow...that is pretty damning. The last I had heard is that they weren't sure which type of panels had been used....

And I wonder how many other high rises are outfitted with the same?

Local authorities have spent the last few days checking all of their property. Its a mixed picture. Ive seen a figure of 100k to fit sprinklers to Grenfell House.

But local government budgets have been cut by 40% due to tory austerity and so the penny pinching now has a body count.

On top of this there is an acute shortage of affordable housing in London due to tory and labour authorities selling off council housing and not replacing it. Some poor families in the area have been housed as far away as Birmingham because of it.

People have lost families and homes and will lose their jobs if they cant get settled locally. Meanwhile across the road there are private tower blocks bought as investments by foreigners that lie empty.

There is no way it would only cost 100k to install a sprinkler system in a building that size.

Yes you are right.It was 200k

Grenfell fire: sprinkler system would have cost £200,000

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Wow...that is pretty damning. The last I had heard is that they weren't sure which type of panels had been used....

And I wonder how many other high rises are outfitted with the same?

Local authorities have spent the last few days checking all of their property. Its a mixed picture. Ive seen a figure of 100k to fit sprinklers to Grenfell House.

But local government budgets have been cut by 40% due to tory austerity and so the penny pinching now has a body count.

On top of this there is an acute shortage of affordable housing in London due to tory and labour authorities selling off council housing and not replacing it. Some poor families in the area have been housed as far away as Birmingham because of it.

People have lost families and homes and will lose their jobs if they cant get settled locally. Meanwhile across the road there are private tower blocks bought as investments by foreigners that lie empty.

There is no way it would only cost 100k to install a sprinkler system in a building that size.

Also when you see footage of the inferno as it took hold, I don't think a sprinkler system would have been able to combat it, it was too extreme a situation.

Hard to say.
If the sprinklers had come on when the fire initially started they might have been able to stop it.

 

[irosie91]

one of the most significant FIRE IN BUILDING factors is-----subsidized rent

How is that a factor?

lack of pride of ownership and lawsuit potential

I'm not sure I understand how that would have anything to do with the lack of working fire alarms and sprinklers and substandard cladding? I also heard that gas pipes in the stairwells were cited as problems.

as far as I know----the actual cause of the fire has not been determined. Fires are not CAUSED by
cladding, gas pipes in the stair wells or absent fire alarms. -----sometimes they start in meth, labs

 

[Coyote]

one of the most significant FIRE IN BUILDING factors is-----subsidized rent

How is that a factor?

lack of pride of ownership and lawsuit potential

I'm not sure I understand how that would have anything to do with the lack of working fire alarms and sprinklers and substandard cladding? I also heard that gas pipes in the stairwells were cited as problems.

as far as I know----the actual cause of the fire has not been determined. Fires are not CAUSED by
cladding, gas pipes in the stair wells or absent fire alarms. -----sometimes they start in meth, labs

That is certainly possible. What they've said so far is they don't think it was deliberate. The thing is - the cladding made it spread so much faster and hotter, and absent fire alarms meant people couldn't be warned in time.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Wow...that is pretty damning. The last I had heard is that they weren't sure which type of panels had been used....

And I wonder how many other high rises are outfitted with the same?

Local authorities have spent the last few days checking all of their property. Its a mixed picture. Ive seen a figure of 100k to fit sprinklers to Grenfell House.

But local government budgets have been cut by 40% due to tory austerity and so the penny pinching now has a body count.

On top of this there is an acute shortage of affordable housing in London due to tory and labour authorities selling off council housing and not replacing it. Some poor families in the area have been housed as far away as Birmingham because of it.

People have lost families and homes and will lose their jobs if they cant get settled locally. Meanwhile across the road there are private tower blocks bought as investments by foreigners that lie empty.

There is no way it would only cost 100k to install a sprinkler system in a building that size.

Yes you are right.It was 200k

Grenfell fire: sprinkler system would have cost £200,000

That wouldnt be enough either unless they planned on running garden hoses.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Wow...that is pretty damning. The last I had heard is that they weren't sure which type of panels had been used....

And I wonder how many other high rises are outfitted with the same?

Local authorities have spent the last few days checking all of their property. Its a mixed picture. Ive seen a figure of 100k to fit sprinklers to Grenfell House.

But local government budgets have been cut by 40% due to tory austerity and so the penny pinching now has a body count.

On top of this there is an acute shortage of affordable housing in London due to tory and labour authorities selling off council housing and not replacing it. Some poor families in the area have been housed as far away as Birmingham because of it.

People have lost families and homes and will lose their jobs if they cant get settled locally. Meanwhile across the road there are private tower blocks bought as investments by foreigners that lie empty.

There is no way it would only cost 100k to install a sprinkler system in a building that size.

Also when you see footage of the inferno as it took hold, I don't think a sprinkler system would have been able to combat it, it was too extreme a situation.

Hard to say.
If the sprinklers had come on when the fire initially started they might have been able to stop it.

Inside the building yes, but that still would have left the exterior with the cladding which almost certainly was the reason why the whole building was enveloped and engulfed into an inferno within approx 15 minutes.

 

[irosie91]

one of the most significant FIRE IN BUILDING factors is-----subsidized rent

How is that a factor?

lack of pride of ownership and lawsuit potential

I'm not sure I understand how that would have anything to do with the lack of working fire alarms and sprinklers and substandard cladding? I also heard that gas pipes in the stairwells were cited as problems.

as far as I know----the actual cause of the fire has not been determined. Fires are not CAUSED by
cladding, gas pipes in the stair wells or absent fire alarms. -----sometimes they start in meth, labs

That is certainly possible. What they've said so far is they don't think it was deliberate. The thing is - the cladding made it spread so much faster and hotter, and absent fire alarms meant people couldn't be warned in time.

right-------most fires are ACCIDENTAL. People do not smoke in bed in order to commit suicide

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Out of curiosity what is the average rent for a flat in London?

Worse than NYC

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

one of the most significant FIRE IN BUILDING factors is-----subsidized rent

How is that a factor?

lack of pride of ownership and lawsuit potential

I'm not sure I understand how that would have anything to do with the lack of working fire alarms and sprinklers and substandard cladding? I also heard that gas pipes in the stairwells were cited as problems.

as far as I know----the actual cause of the fire has not been determined. Fires are not CAUSED by
cladding, gas pipes in the stair wells or absent fire alarms. -----sometimes they start in meth, labs

There are eyewitnesses that are saying it started from a faulty fridge.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

From the Engineer article.

Alan Brinson, a member of the European Fire Sprinkler Network said: “This fire is similar to The Address fire in Dubai on New Year’s Eve 2015. The difference is that building had sprinklers and nobody was killed.”

Jon O’Neill, managing director of the Fire Protection Association told The Independent that a sprinkler system would have saved lives and ‘created an environment where it would have been easier to rescue people and increase survivability.’

Surely it would have bought more time.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Wow...that is pretty damning. The last I had heard is that they weren't sure which type of panels had been used....

And I wonder how many other high rises are outfitted with the same?

Local authorities have spent the last few days checking all of their property. Its a mixed picture. Ive seen a figure of 100k to fit sprinklers to Grenfell House.

But local government budgets have been cut by 40% due to tory austerity and so the penny pinching now has a body count.

On top of this there is an acute shortage of affordable housing in London due to tory and labour authorities selling off council housing and not replacing it. Some poor families in the area have been housed as far away as Birmingham because of it.

People have lost families and homes and will lose their jobs if they cant get settled locally. Meanwhile across the road there are private tower blocks bought as investments by foreigners that lie empty.

There is no way it would only cost 100k to install a sprinkler system in a building that size.

Also when you see footage of the inferno as it took hold, I don't think a sprinkler system would have been able to combat it, it was too extreme a situation.

Hard to say.
If the sprinklers had come on when the fire initially started they might have been able to stop it.

Inside the building yes, but that still would have left the exterior with the cladding which almost certainly was the reason why the whole building was enveloped and engulfed into an inferno within approx 15 minutes.

You'd like to think that a fire that started inside the building according to eyewitnesses wouldnt have ever made it to the buildings cladding.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

How is that a factor?

lack of pride of ownership and lawsuit potential

I'm not sure I understand how that would have anything to do with the lack of working fire alarms and sprinklers and substandard cladding? I also heard that gas pipes in the stairwells were cited as problems.

as far as I know----the actual cause of the fire has not been determined. Fires are not CAUSED by
cladding, gas pipes in the stair wells or absent fire alarms. -----sometimes they start in meth, labs

That is certainly possible. What they've said so far is they don't think it was deliberate. The thing is - the cladding made it spread so much faster and hotter, and absent fire alarms meant people couldn't be warned in time.

right-------most fires are ACCIDENTAL. People do not smoke in bed in order to commit suicide

I have said for several days now, that IMHO it was caused by a discarded cigarette, the situation began on the fifth floor, so either someone threw a cigarette out of the window and it caught the cladding and this was the initiator or someone inside fell asleep while still holding a cigarette.

This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it, until such a time any new evidence is released that suggests otherwise.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Wow...that is pretty damning. The last I had heard is that they weren't sure which type of panels had been used....

And I wonder how many other high rises are outfitted with the same?

Lots and lots.....no sprinklers either